MovieChat Forums > Happy Valley (2014) Discussion > Strong women heroes;also, question about...

Strong women heroes;also, question about sidearms and police in Britain.

posted 9 years ago by amysuekd
45 replies | jump to latest

I love this show. I was glued to both seasons and had to "binge watch" because every episode left me at the end of my seat. I love when I woman character saves the day. (Also The Fall") I,ve started to pick up this accent. As an American, how can the police be safe without side arms? On this show, and some others (I'm a British TV fan- so much better than American Tv) they seem to be up against violent criminals without guns, and no way to defend themselves.

[–] shellieeyre 9 years ago

They have tasers and truncheons. They seem to manage pretty well without firearms.

We do have armed response units that can be mobilised if necessary; ARUs consider it a job well done if they don't have to fire a weapon. The absence of guns means that the police have to use other strategies to deal with dangerous situations.

Police in NI, because of its history, are armed more often.

I'm the clever one; you're the potato one.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] rscottcarlson 9 years ago

It also means 2 Islamic thugs can murder a soldier on camera, in broad daylight, because the police have to wait for their "armed unit" to stop them.

[–] lilactime2014 9 years ago

to rscottcarlson:
This old crap again. Jeez when will you americans get it. We the public don't want guns, the vast majority of cops don't want guns, our criminals rarely have guns, when they do we break out the armed units.

Lee Rigby would not have been saved by there being routinely armed cops, it happened in the blink of an eye and unless there was a cop RIGHT THERE, within feet he would not have been saved so do some bloody reading, get some perspective and stop being such an brain dead idiot. I could probably name 10 UK murders that have happened in the last 10 years that MIGHT have been stopped by having routinely armed police. BUT THEN I would have to name you the 1000 other murders that have happened because the Police were routinely armed. the ones from the criminals who now decide to get "Tooled up" because the cops are, the ones that are law enforcement caused, cops shooting civilians or the 100s of accidents that would happen if there was routine arming. So I and most of the UK will take our 4 cop shootings per decade and 44 to 60 gun deaths per year you can keep your 33,000 gun deaths a year and enjoy each and every one of them that makes you feel safer. The civilized world laughs at the US gun laws and cries at every Sandy Hook.

UK police know that if they were routinely armed they would be much MORE likely to die than if they were not armed and the UKs gun laws remain in place. It seems that Guns to a US cop is just a way to stop them having to use their brains, to stop them having to negotiate, it enables them to bully and take the easy route out. Do as I say or I will kill you. Murder by cop, now the US citizens have phones, is quite a common sight on many sites. We don't want that here. No Thank YOU.

'tler

[–] shellieeyre 9 years ago

👏👏👏☝

I'm the clever one; you're the potato one.

[–] ironduke74 9 years ago

Well done the yank has been owned

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] shellieeyre 9 years ago

Did you know there are 1.3 Brits living in the USA

I don't think that you mean what you just posted.

I'm the clever one; you're the potato one.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] shellieeyre 9 years ago

And you kill animals and say it is sport? A fox up against a pack of dogs? Really?

No, hunting with dogs is illegal. Shooting game birds for food is common all over the world. What point are you trying to make?

In Happy Valley I actually was not referring to the big SPOILER murder you referenced. I was talking about another situation I won't say, because I don't like to post spoilers.

What SPOILER murder? You can reference all the things you think are spoilers as the series has finished, but if you're very squeamish about spoilers you can use the spoiler tags this site provides.

And, a gun would have saved someone in that scene. After that murder, the next day, in the daily briefing, she says something like: OK, we all need to have our bullet proof vests, mace and batons. As I said below: Stop or I'll say stop again.

Please can you try and focus. You won't say what you're talking about but seem to want people to respond to your points.

I understand that you think armed police are a very good thing; we do not have the same gun culture as you do and it would not work here. Can't you accept that the way the US does things isn't the only or even always the best? The fact is that very few people end up dead at the hands of the police in this country and on the whole we're pretty much OK with that.

I'm the clever one; you're the potato one.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] amrylinc 9 years ago

Angry rant aside you do know that the whole of the UK is just about the size of California, 1 of the 50 states in the USA? The population, the culture, problems that are faced and history are completely different. You are not right because you have no guns and we are not wrong for having them. Don't be an isolationist. This country wanted to do the same in both World Wars.

There is backwards justice in all parts of the world but I know through research that the most absurd cases of defenselessness come from the UK. The UK, where pepper spray is in the same category as a Rocket-Propelled Grenade. Where it is better to have been raped, survive and provide information than to have had an 'offensive weapon' in public to keep yourself safe. Frankly, it's a hilarious repetition of history. The Irish had their weapons banned and so came the Shillelagh.

Similarly, in some parts of the USA and due to media attention you might be questioned why you defended yourself quite so fiercely if your attacker died in the process. As if that attacker has not surrendered their human rights by attempting murder? " Ma'am, you should not have hit the man 4 times while he brutally raped you, 2 would have been sufficient and he may have survived."

Just shut up.

[–] shellieeyre 9 years ago

There is backwards justice in all parts of the world but I know through research that the most absurd cases of defenselessness come from the UK.

I'd be interested to see your research. Perhaps you could let us see some of it with your sources.

And I'm pretty sure the shillelagh predates any weapons ban. Big sticks do after all predate firearms.

I'm the clever one; you're the potato one.

[–] grandmabrat 8 years ago

I am one american who thinks the British have a superior police way of handling people. I wish our cops were half as good at what they do. I would say feel proud as you obviously do, and maybe our cops some day will learn that they are not better cops by slinging bullets all over the place and killing children who are doing nothing worse than playing.

[–] kinglet 8 years ago

Facts bear out your statements, and thanks for making them here.

[–] rscottcarlson 8 years ago

Sorry I don't hang around IMDB boards unless i'm bored, which is why this a late response. I don't like the militarization of our police, and I'll give that you may be right about that case.I don't really care about you Brits and what you think about guns, and what you write doesn't change my feelings about sane gun control.You seem to be under the impression that criminals will obey gun laws.

Knock yourself out Brits, i don't care if you guys turn into a Muslim theocracy.As long as you keep pumping out great TV like HAPPY VALLEY, BROADCHURCH, PEAKY BLINDERS, THE FALL, and some others, i'm happy.No need to be a hostile troll and turning this into a thing it was never intended to be, the ridiculous rant that everyone from a particular country has the same opinions.

[–] eileen-guthrie555 8 years ago

This old crap again. Jeez when will you Americans get it. We the public don't want guns, the vast majority of cops don't want guns, our criminals rarely have guns, when they do we break out the armed units.

When will you stop acting all superior? If no one has a weapon, then can I asked why does the Queens guards have working rifles loaded with a bayonets? Since no one according to you has a weapon? Or why did a Queens guard draw his weapon on a tourist, who had no weapon. I'm sure your prime minister has armed guards protecting him. From what? Wasn't there a member of your parliament who was gunned down a few years ago? I read an article last year that gun violence both in England a Wales rose by 71 to 574. WHY?

The IRA in northern Ireland who received a large portion of their weaponry from Muammar Gaddafi and Libya, during the 1970's through the mid 1990's where most weapons were from Russia and where they used riffles such as AK-47, AKM's, MP5 submachine guns, RPG-7 anti-tank rocket launcher, etc. seemed to be the IRA preferred weapons and rocket launches all Russian made. Ireland is part of the UK, correct? So, what was that all about? Oh! I know they wanted the britchish (misspelled on purpose a combo of b*tch and British) out of Northern Ireland. A few years ago, there were cross-party delegation of Northern Irish politicians who traveled to the Libyan capital Tripoli for the first face to face meeting with Libyan government ministers to discuss compensation claims for victims of IRA violence.

Most of the United States gun violence is about the war on drugs, drug trafficking with billions and billions of dollars in profit. The Mayor of Chicago (a very long and varied history of corruption since Al Capone reigned) created a ban on all guns in the city. By banning guns, did the violence end? NO, they found new weapons to use, one person cut down a telephone pole and killed 3 people over the drug wars in the city. Does the UK have the drug wars going on or illegal criminals crossing your border with guns, drugs (now it's also about legal prescription drugs as well), a long history of violence and $100 billion dollars a year bring drugs in from South America, through both your southern and northern borders? YES OR NO? Now, all those Mexican traffickers are using some very old landmines to protect their investments, something new a different. So, take your sanctimonious superior attitude and give us a call when drugs cross your borders, which I learned is on the up in the UK. I'm sure they'll have guns to protect their drugs. Good luck with that can of mace and stun guns when they have AK-47's and AR-15's.

[–] ironduke74 9 years ago

No it doesn't idiot if there were cops in the area they would have charged in anyway

[–] Ithilfaen 8 years ago

It also means 2 Islamic thugs can murder a soldier on camera, in broad daylight, because the police have to wait for their "armed unit" to stop them.

Only idiots who watch too much tv think that guns can stop crimes.

The magic of guns is like David Hasselhoff's charm. It works only on tv, in dim light, on people who don't use much of their brain.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

[–] rscottcarlson 8 years ago

Only idiots who brag about not watching TV think guns kill and maim all by themselves.

[–] gemma_cashill 9 years ago

You seem to have been attacked a bit here for asking a question of cultural difference. I think what it boils down to is that in the UK guns aren't legal so less criminals have access to a gun, meaning the police don't need one to 'fight fire with fire' so to speak.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] supergran 9 years ago

Westongardener, I think lilactime was responding to the post by rscottcarlson. Whilst I don't endorse lilactime's impoliteness, I do agree with what she says about the Lee Rigby case.

The poor lad didn't stand a chance. He was attacked suddenly and mercilessly. It would have happened, armed police or not.

As a Brit, I feel FAR safer knowing that the police aren't routinely armed. If they were, it would raise the stakes considerably.

If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] supergran 9 years ago

Westongardener, I've carefully looked through the posts in this thread, and I cannot find any references to real-life incidents other than Lee Rigby and Sandy Hook. I can't find any mention of any other fictional dramas than Happy Valley, nor can I see any attacks on you personally. The only person who came in for some stick was rscottcarlson who made a very ill-informed comment about murdered soldier Lee Rigby.

I know life here in Britain isn't perfect. We've had our share of massacres by gunshot, but these would be FAR more numerous if gun-control wasn't so rigid. As for blood sports - well, fox-hunting has been outlawed, and many people were against it before that.

If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.

[–] Come_Play_With_Me 9 years ago

I can't find any mention of any other fictional dramas than Happy Valley, nor can I see any attacks on you personally.

Exactly. What spoilers are they referring to? Not seeing anything here that could be classed as a spoiler.

I think we have ourselves a bit of a loon or a troll here and should be best ignored judging by their copious amounts of inane rambling posts spamming this board.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] shellieeyre 9 years ago

I asked one question, and started a hysterical riot in England.

No, it really didn't.

I'm the clever one; you're the potato one.

[–] shellieeyre 9 years ago

So, all you Brits. Get over it. And when you need a cop to save you, he or she can say: Stop, or I'll say stop again!

Why are you being so aggressive to "all (us) Brits"? You live in a culture awash with guns and your policing reflects that. We don't, and our policing reflects that. In that context it works well for us. Adopting US police practices wouldn't work at all, and would just result in an escalation of gun use and many more dead people.

I'm the clever one; you're the potato one.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] supergran 9 years ago

I'm sure "the Yank" in question was rscottcarlson. As I say, rudeness is intolerable, but it does no good becoming over-sensitive.

Yes, there is violence here. We're not immune. Knife-crime, mostly, which is, of course, horrendous. But guns, in those same hands, would be far more deadly. And the police would then need to be armed, and so it escalates and where do we stop?....

Anyway, I'm no expert, so I'll bow out here. 

If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.

[–] octomancer 8 years ago

You seem to be of the opinion that fewer guns is a good thing? I'd say you *are* an expert then. Expert enough for me, at any rate.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] jillian.diamond 9 years ago

They have tasers and truncheons (which I probably misspelled). As so few criminals in the UK have firearms this is largely enough. Last stats I saw for the violent crime per 100,000 people the US ranked 14th (not just murder - otherwise we thankfully do not make the top 25). The UK ranked 71st. They have the added bonus of not having innocent bystanders winding up in the crossfire.

Our murder rate (with or without guns) is 4x what it is in the UK. And that is per 100,000 people, not a higher number because we have a bigger population.

[–] supergran 9 years ago

Thanks, jillian.

The OP wanted to know how British police could be safe without side arms and how they could defend themselves.

I've just done a bit of research and have discovered that about 250 British police officers have been killed in the line of duty since 1900. That figure includes only those who were killed as a result of a crime and omits those who died in accidents and those killed by air raids during the Second World War. It also omits the more than 300 officers of the former Royal Ulster Constabulary and current Police Service of Northern Ireland who were killed during the Troubles in Northern Ireland.

Compare that to the USA. According to the FBI, from 1980 to 2014, an average of 64 law enforcement officers are feloniously killed per year. This figure doesn't include those killed in accidents.

Now 250 police officers in 115 years is 250 too many, but the comparative figures are interesting to say the least, even allowing for population difference.

If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] shellieeyre 9 years ago

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, it looks very much as though it's you who is going off the deep end, even taking the trouble to look up the names of some of the British born people now living in the US, making a snotty comment about the honours system and point blank (pun intended) refusing to see that in the UK there is no history of nor demand for armed police.

I'm the clever one; you're the potato one.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Nikon11 8 years ago

I agree, they're two different systems and cultures. I'm in Maine, which is up there in the number of guns and gun owners, but we're probably the lowest state, as far as gun violence, and violent crime, in general.

We have practically no restrictions, and don't require a license or permit. But we're also not a very populated, urban, or racially/culturally diverse state either. And I think those are the biggest factors that keep it a peaceful and safe place to live.

[–] shellieeyre 9 years ago

I posted about a particular FICTIONAL scene in a TV show. Stop yelling at meet already. Enough!

And you got an answer; you're the one with a heavy CAPS finger, no one else is yelling. Simmer down.

I'm the clever one; you're the potato one.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] shellieeyre 9 years ago

I only used caps, because no one was listening to me. I thought we were going to stop talking about the US already. Why do you call me a potato? By the way, I've been watching Dicte. The Danish cops carry sidearms. Is that a country with a "gun culture" like the US?

People not agreeing with what you say (or shout) is not at all the same as them not listening to you. Shouting won't help them hear what you say though.

Denmark doesn't have a gun culture like that in the US, it has its own gun culture which dictates how people there perceive and use firearms. The gun culture of the US is very particular to the US. The gun culture in the UK is its own with agreement about who should own guns and what they are allowed to use them for, and it still doesn't include routinely arming police officers. It's not that difficult to grasp, is it?

I'm the clever one; you're the potato one.

[–] bi-azh 8 years ago

So to come back to the original point about a strong woman character I also do love the show for that because a woman of her age is seldom the hero of a TV show. She is strong and vulnerable at the same time and this makes her more believable and real.

And to the second point about police force with or without guns - we here in Germany have armed police forces and they are well trained (at least three years or more). But the gun laws are also very strict, to own a weapon in your house you have to give a lot of very good reasons. Which doesn't prevent illegal weapons on the streets naturally because we are in the middle of Europe and the borders are open in the European Union. So where to live better and safer - in USA, Britain or Germany? I prefer my own county of course and yes, we have a lot of refugees but the crime rate hasn't increased.

[–] shellieeyre 8 years ago

It's not strictly true that borders are open throughout the EU; The UK is not part of the Schengen Agreement and its borders are not therefore open, no matter what certain politicians might like us to believe.

I'm the clever one; you're the potato one.

[–] Kennedy (110) 9 months ago

Since you're German, I think Tatort's Lindholm is very similar :)