MovieChat Forums > Luke Cage (2016) Discussion > I'm not a big fan of the BLM movement...

I'm not a big fan of the BLM movement...


For reasons I won't go into here, I find the BLM movement somewhat misguided, but my god I really enjoyed this show. And I think it really dealt with a lot of contemporary issues in a clever way. On the surface, it is obviously a "black" show, but it has a lot of social commentary, and not always going easy on the black community. Overall, Too long, didn't like Diamondback. 8.5/10

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The show has nothing to do with BLM though, so I'm not sure why you're connecting the two. I do find it odd when people say they don't like Black Lives Matter. Yes, some of them are annoying and a-holes, but that goes for any group in the world that has thousands and thousands of people in it. They're mainly about black people not getting shot/killed by the police when it's unneeded, which is a good cause and no decent person should be against.

I never saved anything for the swim back.

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I would say there is a symbolic connection. And a few scenes that mirror recent social events,

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Nobody in their right mind wants to see anybody killed, lest of all unjustly. But things are never quite that simple. We're 3 years into all this stuff and the country is not better for it. There is tension, hostility, and ugliness everywhere.

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We're 3 years into all this stuff and the country is not better for it.


3 whole years into it all, huh?

Try 524.

Yet we're still pretending about that very first year alone: 1. Nothing of even the slightest significance was here until a European magically "discovered" and gave value to it. 2. It's still OK to refer to the people he "discovered" as "Red----s" and "Indians". (Despite knowing virtually the entire time that they aren't "Indians" -- and still arrogantly and disrespectfully calling them that anyway for another 500 years -- just because we can.). And 3. That Columbus is anything remotely resembling a hero. Instead of (by his own words) the ringleader of a band of child rapists, an absolutely merciless annihilator of the natives, and the first slave dealer.

But the "tension, hostility, and ugliness" is somehow suddenly an outgrowth of just the last 3???






No man lies so boldly as the man who is indignant.

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3 whole years into it all, huh?

Try 524.


.

I was always a fan of the "Obama started racism" accusation myself.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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Well said. The cops didn't suddenly start killing black guys three years ago. Some people in BLM are really angry and demonstrative. Ugly things have been said. There have been riots. But it's not fair to judge a whole movement by that. Talk about white privilege.

There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap

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Of course not. But the movement has really picked up steam over the last 3 years. What does white privilege have to do with anything? Just because I'm white means I have no right to an opinion? I was born in Europe, I work in healthcare and thereby am exposed to a lot of ills in our society and I have some perspective on what I feel is wrong in certain communities. I could be totally wrong and I'm not a staunch hater of BLM, I just said I think it's misguided. For instance, everybody always says they want to start a 'discussion' about these issues, but it seems like the only direction is to blame the police. Very seldom do people want to talk about the issues within the black community, i.e. lack of fathers, poor education, a lack of emphasis on respecting authority and providing for families...are the cops targeting black guys? Maybe. Are the videos ugly? Absolutely. Has anything actually been done to improve the communities where most of this stuff happens? Not a damn thing. And that's because it takes work from within the community and some introspection. And what I see from BLM is finger pointing and zero accountability. Add to that the fact that many of the protests result in rioting, racism and vitriole towards police and I don't think it's so inhumane and cruel to not blindly be pro BLM. But that's my opinion and I welcome any counter arguments.

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What does white privilege have to do with anything?
It means that in the context of the US (and most of the Western world), white people are seen as the norm, as well as hold most positions of power, and this often results in more respect and better treatment than a non-white person in a similar situation - for instance, if most politicians are white, they're more likely to set policies that address issues predominantly facing white people, not out of intentional racism but because those are the problems they're most familiar with. In a global context, due to the influences of past colonialism and present mass media, white people are also often subconsciously viewed as 'better' than other races.

On an individual basis, it means that being white in the US is likely to make your life easier than it would have been if you were not white - e.g. a disabled white person may have a very difficult life, but it would be even harder if he were black.
Just because I'm white means I have no right to an opinion?
Not that. The problems emerge when for instance a black person is talking about his own experiences with racism, and a white person chimes in to say that he's exaggerating because he doesn't think racism still exists. So the problem isn't with sharing one's opinion, but rather dismissing other people's first-hand experiences based on one's more-limited experience in that particular area. e.g. black people have more knowledge than white people when it comes to what it's like being black, especially when it comes to things like dealing with anti-black racism. I grew up as part of the racial majority in my country and was surprised to hear minorities talk about racism (which I didn't think existed here), but when I was living in as a minority overseas I'd experience racism that other people there likewise assumed no longer existed. There's a lot that goes unnoticed, and ideally we'd listen to other people when they talk about their own experiences, especially those we are unlikely to be exposed to by virtue of our identities.
Very seldom do people want to talk about the issues within the black community, i.e. lack of fathers, poor education, a lack of emphasis on respecting authority and providing for families...
Those things tend to be characteristic of most historically-oppressed racial minorities around the world, and in the US that happens to be black people. It's a cycle that's hard to break out of - poor education leads to poor jobs and poverty, which leads to difficulty providing for families, which hampers their children's education, and so on.

I read an article about this recently which I found interesting: http://www.theatlantic.com/personal/archive/2010/10/a-culture-of-poverty/64854/

EDIT: I think it's also noteworthy that it's the vocal racists who tend to agree that racism exists, probably because they're causing it. Whereas if you have a non-racist white guy whose white friends and family are also non-racist, he's not going to be witnessing much if any overt racism, which would lead him to the conclusion that racism no longer exists or at least isn't very bad. Whereas his hypothetical black friend may not suffer any racism from him, but will still be subject to racism from other people - including random strangers in the street yelling racist slurs at him. When his white friend walks by, those strangers have no reason to say anything and might as well not exist, and he might thus assume his friend is just making a big deal out of nothing.

That's probably closer to what the term 'white privilege' gets at: being shielded from witnessing the majority of racism in a society - either against oneself or others - due to being white.


It's the question that drives us. I know the answer is 42.

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I never said racism does not exist. And I'm certainly not naive to how its more subtle contemporary forms aren't dangerous. And I've acknowledged that cops killing black is definitely a problem. My point is about the BLM movement. I told you what my issue was and you tell me that the lack of family structure in the communities is a byproduct of being opressed. Now, to me, frankly that sounds like an excuse. Every father, man and husband in this country has an obligation to provide for their family, rich or poor, black or white. I'm a firm believer that this is not happening enough in the black community and leads to a lot of the serious issues that plague such communities, INCLUDING tensions between citizens and police.

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I'm a firm believer that this is not happening enough in the black community and leads to a lot of the serious issues that plague such communities, INCLUDING tensions between citizens and police.


firm believe doesn't mean jack. do you have evidence? some people firmly believe the world is flat.

I told you what my issue was and you tell me that the lack of family structure in the communities is a byproduct of being opressed. Now, to me, frankly that sounds like an excuse.


your firm believe sounds like an excuse too. do Africans in Africa have this issue? in the UK/France/Canada/Australia?

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I'm a firm believer that this is not happening enough in the black community


...because in my many conversations with black people...
...because several of my black extended family members tell me directly...
...because in the regular time I spend in the black community...
...because on numerous occasions I have personally seen or heard...
...because despite what I've heard, I personally know...
...because I try to personally make it a habit to...
...because I try to judge people as individuals, so therefore...
...because it's been my personal experience that...
...because what I firmly believe is no kind of substitute for...
...because black people are humans too, and it would be inhuman to stand back at a distance and...
...because I personally know a variety of black people and my experience with them has taught me...
...because I talk to black people regularly, and they tell me...
And last but not least...
...because until I hear it personally from them with my own ears, anything else I hear is probably either gossip or just plain racism.






No man lies so boldly as the man who is indignant.

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and you tell me that the lack of family structure in the communities is a byproduct of being opressed
Let's say we have two communities. One of them is left alone. The other only started being allowed to integrate with mainstream society, obtain an education, get proper, respectable jobs and earn a livable wage only two or three generations ago. Its people are meanwhile still subject to abuse and discrimination, its men are disproportionately arrested and end up spending years in jail.

How can you honestly say that both communities should be able to equally thrive? That's just not how societies or humans work, regardless of race. If it had been white people in that situation, the same thing would be happening.
I'm a firm believer that this is not happening enough in the black community
Okay, and what do you think is the reason behind that? What do you think is the reason why black men are somehow taking less responsibility? Does having darker skin make one less willing to provide for one's family? How does this work, biologically?
I'm a firm believer that this is not happening enough in the black community and leads to a lot of the serious issues that plague such communities, INCLUDING tensions between citizens and police.
The pastor in my previous church was once the Methodist Bishop in New Jersey. He's a black man, well spoken, well educated with multiple degrees, usually wears a suit. He's married - his wife is also a pastor - with two kids whom he provides well for. That doesn't stop him from being regularly stopped and frisked by police, once in his own front yard. And that goes for pretty much all the black male friends I have, regardless of how educated or respectable they are.

Heck, I remember a news story where Forest Whitaker was once told to leave a store because the security guy thought he looked like a shoplifter.

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It's the question that drives us. I know the answer is 42.

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@rzaxlash


I grew up in black communities and currently live in one---you said you're in Europe, so how the hell would you know what goes on in the black community if you're never been there? Getting your info off of TV isnt the same thing. There are committed fathers (and mothers) who work and take care of their kids and sent them to school just like anyone else does. We already know what our problems in our own communities are,we don't need another damn lecture from a white man who's probably never set foot anywhere near where more than one black person lives---and there heard working honest people who try to combat those problems every single damn day, and without getting much credit for it.

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Too long to read.

“Brevity is the soul of wit.”

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3 whole years into it all, huh?

Try 524.

Yet we're still pretending about that very first year alone: 1. Nothing of even the slightest significance was here until a European magically "discovered" and gave value to it. 2. It's still OK to refer to the people he "discovered" as "Red----s" and "Indians". (Despite knowing virtually the entire time that they aren't "Indians" -- and still arrogantly and disrespectfully calling them that anyway for another 500 years -- just because we can.). And 3. That Columbus is anything remotely resembling a hero. Instead of (by his own words) the ringleader of a band of child rapists, an absolutely merciless annihilator of the natives, and the first slave dealer.

But the "tension, hostility, and ugliness" is somehow suddenly an outgrowth of just the last 3???


Funny how you don't mention how Africa still enslaves a third of their own people today, or how there are millions of slaves in muslim countries. I also love how you conveniently don't mention the thousands of whites who died to free slaves in America. I guess none of that matters. And by the way, Columbus was far, far from the first slave trader. You might want to read a history book.


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dies ist meine unterschrift

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And now according to Rick Santorum it was then President Barack Obama who caused al of this racial tension to happen.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rick-santorum-blames-obama-for-increased-racial-tensions-in-the-us/ar-AAyc8Uf

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rick-santorum-barack-obama-racism_n_5b1497e2e4b0d5e89e20c8e1

Wow! Just wow!

The second by second deconstruction of Obama and Blacks continues.

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Interesting discussion

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I am not just not a fan, and am very much aligned against the BLM movement; as they stand for everything antidemocratic and for an honorable, free society in which every man is created equal.

But this is not a video that supports or even addresses the BLM movement. Get over yourself. Luke Cage was a popular superhero being the first black Marvel superhero for decades, and more recently. Being one of the defenders, doing the defenders series made a lot of sense; plus as a side note it does get them the extra publicity of being the first mainly black Marvel show. There is nothing wrong with it; it is harlem.

This does nothing to the stupid BLM narrative; the worst offense was probably ep10s statement to the cops about how despite being black, they are blue, and might as well be white (alluding to roughing up black people by cops). A false narrative in real life, but in context these were the bad guys to begin with, and the woman in question who wasn't supported it only because he just had her child beaten by a moronic shakedown of a neighbor; mob style (but with cops).

Short of that; no, I don't see it. And even that doesn't fully support the narrative you are trying to spin about the show itself.
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am very much aligned against the BLM movement


Hooray to disproportionate arrests, sentencing, and state-sanctioned street executions?

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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Disproportionate arrests/sentencing have everything to do with the unfortunate circumstances within those black communities; not racists cops.

There are no state sanctioned street executions; and now you are just being ridiculously hyperbolic. Cops shooting black kids is such a small %, you have a higher chance of being struck by lightning. And most of those cases - it wasn't racism that was the problem.

So no; I don't agree with BLM in that. Common sense destroys that argument.

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Sure. It has nothing to do with (subpar) police training and (subpar) screening/recruitment methods. Nothing at all .

There are no state sanctioned street executions


That is precisely what they are.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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Disproportionate arrests/sentencing have everything to do with the unfortunate circumstances within those black communities; not racists cops.

There are no state sanctioned street executions; and now you are just being ridiculously hyperbolic. Cops shooting black kids is such a small %, you have a higher chance of being struck by lightning. And most of those cases - it wasn't racism that was the problem.

So no; I don't agree with BLM in that. Common sense destroys that argument.

Seems like when there's a cultural/society problem towards another group that doesn't affect someone they often say it doesn't exist. There were people like you during slavery saying it was fine and just manifest destiny. There were people like you against people Washington, Du Bois, Malcolm, MLK, etc saying black people were fine and there was no problem.

Black people weren't allowed to buy houses outside of projects in many areas just a few decades ago, majority of people in jail are in there for non-violent and weed related crimes - which shouldn't be illegal in the first place. Prison has become a business, just like war, and they'll keep finding ways to keep both going.

No, that isn't to say there aren't black criminals. However, Eric Garner shouldn't have been choked to death and those cops should've gone to jail, Trayvon Martin shouldn't have been followed and profiled, the therapist in Florida did everything the cop said while trying to keep his mentally challenged patient calm and the cop still shot him, then said he didn't know why he did it. There are dozens of other cases. It is a problem, like I said before, there are always people saying things are perfectly fine right now, even when they're not.

I never saved anything for the swim back.

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There's also the school-to-prison pipeline.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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assumedkilla:

You're right about all of that, for sure.

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I hate when illiterate people like you are allowed to roam free with unlettered "facts". They should teach BLM in Yale so the boneheads can graduate with real education.

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Do unjustified shootings happen? Yes. Do they occur disproportionately to blacks? Absolutely not. Cant argue with numbers.

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Do they occur disproportionately to blacks? Absolutely not. Cant argue with numbers.
The majority of police shootings of unarmed men happen to white people, yes, but 37% were black victims, despite black people making up only 12% of the US population. So such shootings do happen disproportionately to blacks. If it were proportionate, the number of unjustified shootings would fall from 37% to 12%, rather than being more than double.

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It's the question that drives us. I know the answer is 42.

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greyhelm:
Uh,what? Numbers and statistics can be manipulated, too, or just be plain wrong----they aren't written in stone. And you're wrong as hell, too.

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The statistics prove otherwise.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7347/7-statistics-show-systemic-racism-doesnt-exist-aaron-bandler

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That article has a few logical loopholes - primarily in arguing that more white than black people who are arrested / pulled over by cops end up killed, when the problem is that black people are disproportionately being arrested and stopped in the first place, and often given longer sentences for the same crimes committed by white people.

So while it's likely true that most white people who are arrested end up jail, compared to black people who are arrested, it also needs to take into account that many of the black people were wrongly arrested, later found to not be guilty and thus set free. The problem isn't the arrest : jail or arrest : shot-by-police ratios, but the disproportionate arrests to begin with.

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It's the question that drives us. I know the answer is 42.

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@fishman81

I am not just not a fan, and am very much aligned against the BLM movement; as they stand for everything antidemocratic and for an honorable, free society in which every man is created equal.


You are so ignorant about BLM, it's laughable and pathetic--and your little rant about them being "undemocratic" is too stupid for words. All the BLM movement wants to do stop black people from getting killed by white cops more than white people do. What the fck is "undemocratic" about any of that? Go look the word up, because you obvioulsy don't understand what it means. As citizens of this country, we as black people have the damn right to demand that police stop harassing us and being so damn quick to shoot us quicker than they would a white person in certain situations. You need to go to the the BLM site where they break down exactly how that can be achieved, instead of spewing your clear ignorance about the movement and what it stands for. Black people have been getting harassed and shot by the police unjustly for decades---that,sadly is nothing new---the only difference now is that people are exposing it threw cell phones and social media more, so it can't be denied that it's actually happening. Also, the show is not even about BLM, so why the hell do white folks keep bringing it up in relation to the show anyway? That's what I'm not understanding.

Here's the BLM site---and,btw there are white folks in the movement too:

http://blacklivesmatter.com/





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alluding to roughing up black people by cops). A false narrative in real life

Your white privilege and ignorance is showing.

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EmperorofLatveria:

"I am not just not a fan, and am very much aligned against the BLM movement; as they stand for everything antidemocratic and for an honorable, free society in which every man is created equal."

The BLM movement started because way too many black people were getting shot by white police, and wanted to find a way to stop all that and hold the police accountable. There is nothing "anti-democratic" about that---you obviously don't know what the word "democratic" means, otherwise you wouldn't have something so damn clueless,ignorant and a**-backwards as what you just said. There is nothing "false" about black people getting way more harrassed and profiled simply BECAUSE they are black, and not always because they are committing a crime. Philando Castille wasn't committing a crime what he was shot and killed by a jumpy policeman who overreacted way too damn quick. Neither was twelve-year old Tamir Rice, who was shot by a policeman who, as it turned out, was too mentally disturbed to even be on the force (and shouldn't have3 been in the first damn place.) There's no damn "false narrative" about those two cases. You just want to make s*** up and claim that racism dosen't exist simply because it dosen't exist in you little white world and because you'll never have to deal with it. Get the hell over yourself,please, and don't even try to lecture people who DO have to deal with racism---if you don't have any experience with it, who the hell are you to tell black people or anybody else how the fck to feel about any racism they experience? You can move the hell on with that BS. It's clueless idiots like you who can't deal with anything that's not about them in the real world.


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More intolerant shít we will be happy to see go. Holy shít the show has a black lead It is out to get me because I'm white. 



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Bureau of Land Management?

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It was a great show. I miss it.

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