MovieChat Forums > Daredevil (2015) Discussion > Kingpin/Wilson Fisk - why no cigars???

Kingpin/Wilson Fisk - why no cigars???

posted 8 years ago by screenwriter824
16 replies | jump to latest

Not sure if this has been addressed on these message boards yet. Now before anyone gets any wrong ideas, im NOT a hater. I love Vincent D'nofrio and I think hez fantastic as Kingpin/Wilson Fisk ... but im wondering... the cigars are a REALLY big part of Kingpins character in the comics... hez frequently seen with a cigar VERY often... but on this show, hes NEVER been seen with one... why is that? I know it's not a censorship thing because with all the grittiness and violence they show on this series, having a character smoking cigars would b VERY tame in comparison... I get that Vincent is not as fat as the 400 pound Kingpin of the comics n I understand having him wear a fat suit may look corny and obvious and hard to take seriously within the gritty atmosphere of the series. So I can forgive THAT... but why no cigars? Especially given that Vincent D'nofrio is a comic book fan in real life, id think he would have said something to the shows producers about wanting to make it accurate... I'm a huge fan of the comics n Daredevil has always been one of my top 3 favorite Marvel characters... and honestly, I love this show very much. I think its MOSTLY faithful to the comics, I love the grittiness, I love the fact that its dark, I think Cox is great as Daredevil/Matt Murdock, Iove how Karen Page is portrayed (despite the fact that her character on this series seems to get alotta hate), and I love Vincent D'nofrio as Kingpin... but I'm just wondering about the cigar issue because it would b such an easy thing to get right ... so has any reason ever been given for them not doing it? Does anyone know?

[–] chainsaw_metal1 8 years ago

The same reason they stopped showing characters smoking in the comics. There are too many people who believe that kids start smoking because they see it in comics/television/movies. And while I'm sure there are some kids who start because of that, it's not the main reason. But since enough parents groups and experts believe it, you see smoking less and less in popular media. It's the same way you used to see Logan smoking in the comics and first few movies, and now he's cigar-free as well (well, dead in the comics, so it's kind of hard to smoke then, unless you're being cremated).

[–] screenwriter824 8 years ago

they'll show the kingpin crushing someone's head with a car door, splattering blood all over the place... but smoking is the thing they're afraid the kids will see??? What a lopsided view of morality lol

[–] chainsaw_metal1 8 years ago

I know, right? It's a messed up way of thinking, but that's how folks are.

Here's another example of lopsided morality. My mom had zero issue with my sister and I seeing films with nudity/sex, so long as it wasn't gratuitous, but she tried to keep films with excessive violence out of our view. Years later I remember talking with one of my friend's parents, who thought that it was better to see excessive violence than nudity or sex. To them, it was more offensive to think that their kids might get horny than seeing people shot up and murdered.

But yeah, that's why you have seen less and less smoking in movies/television/comics in the last twenty years. In fact, I have actually seen in the rating description for some films that they warn that there will be smoking in the film. Also, when did they start labeling every little thing that might be "offensive" in the rating description? I saw a film once that had to warn of "Vampire Violence". Oh, really, this movie about vampires might have vampire violence? Are you serious?

[–] screenwriter824 8 years ago

I understand exactly what u mean...

But its not like that with every show

On shows Sons Of Anarchy, The Sopranos, Mad Men, etc characters were CONSTANTLY smoking

Same with that new Netflix series Stranger Things... I just finished season 1 and alotta the adult characters were smoking alot.. I don't see why they wouldnt do it in another Netflix show with only 1 character. Its a trait I always remember about Kingpin when I read the comics growing up... always seen with a cigar

[–] chainsaw_metal1 8 years ago

My guess is that, with some of the shows, they expect a more adult audience (SOA had a TV-MA rating), so they get a pass. I also noticed that with Stranger Things, but I suppose they figured they were going with a retro feel with that one? Best answer I can think of at the moment.

As for the Netflix connection, Daredevil is run by Marvel, and both they and DC started phasing smoking out of their properties a few years back. And even if you use the argument that heroes shouldn't smoke because kids might imitate them, Kingpin isn't a hero. He's a villain. But then, villains are always cooler than heroes....great, now I've got a headache. 😎

[–] dmcreif 8 years ago

There've been some cigar smokers in the MCU properties. I can recall from Jessica Jones the poker player that Kilgrave threatened to make stub his cigar out in his eye if he lit it up.

[–] chainsaw_metal1 8 years ago

I had forgotten about that scene. Great stuff. I wonder if it's because he wasn't a main character.

[–] screenwriter824 8 years ago

also, has anyone read the Daredevil: Born Again graphic novel? its one of my FAVORITE stories from the comics... Karen Page was actually smoking cigarettes in that story... if they ever incorporate the Born Again story into the series, I wonder if Deborah Ann Woll would be willing to smoke for the character... or if she'd chicken out ... she'd really have to go dark to play that role so if they DO incorporate Born Again, I want them to do it right... they can use other characters in place of the ones they can't use for the series (Captain America, etc)...

But I definitely think Deborah could pull off the Born Again story with Karen

[–] haxemon 8 years ago

I can't say that I've missed it really. Though I do agree it's a fit with the character if they worked it in.

I do think that they way they've portrayed Fisk in this show, that chomping on a cigar might actually seem odd. He's singular of purpose. We never see him drinking unless it's wine with a meal (i.e. no tumbler of scotch at the end of the day). He really doesn't have any vices. Plus IRL he wouldn't be able to smoke cigars in restaurants etc. so I think that could have been part of the decision to opt out of that detail from the comics.

I'm sure there is some hyper concern over not limiting appeal and yes it's a huge double standard compared to the violence and crime etc. but it's certainly not limited to this show.

Reading my signature constitutes admission that I am correct. (Too late)

[–] screenwriter824 8 years ago

Im not saying id want him to do it in restaurants. Just like his office n other places he can do it

Believe it or not, im actually a non smoker. Ive never smoked a cigarette or a cigar in my life... im just a comic book purist and I wanna see characters done correctly. And I love the way Vincent D'nofrio has played Kingpin so far.

But Kingpin without a cigar is kinda like J. Jonah Jameson without a cigar which also doesn't seem right

[–] demolition18-108-676588 8 years ago

Also in this day and age smoking is allot less acceptable. Hardly acceptable anymore. Daredevil isn't kid friendly. There are in real life many politicians anti smoking like senators of the United States and Mike Bloomberg mayor of NYC from 2002 to 2014.

[–] screenwriter824 8 years ago

But that doesn't a comic book character shouldn't do it in a television adaptation

[–] dmcreif 8 years ago

I believe that New York City implemented a number of smoking bans around...2007, I think?

At any rate, that this version of Fisk isn't a cigar smoker is something that really doesn't take away or add to the plot.

[–] screenwriter824 8 years ago

I kno it doesn't

I still love Vincent as Kingpin

As a comic book purist, its just something i can't help noticing

[–] demolition18-108-676588 8 years ago

NYC came in 2003 with a smoking ban indoor and the rest of the state to follow. New Jersey it's against the law to smoke in almost any building since April 15, 2006. I think cigarettes look stupid.

[–] screenwriter824 8 years ago

but im not talking about cigarettes