MovieChat Forums > Trumbo (2015) Discussion > Great movie spoiled

Great movie spoiled

posted 9 years ago by marfrie56
37 replies | jump to latest

I did enjoy it.
I laughed and I cried.
I loved Cranston, loved LCK, enjoyed the pacing, and all the supporting roles.
Then I found out that Edward G. Robinson was made to testify but NEVER ratted out by naming names.
NEVER!!!

I do NOT understand how a supposedly scholarly movie - one that seems to pride itself of historical accuracy - an important time in our history - portraying important and very well known people - and one that got many details spot on like Douglas' breaking of the blacklist by giving Trumbo the screen credit in Spartacus - HOW could such a movie make a massive mistake like this???????

When Robinson testified, you know he must have been under TREMENDOUS pressure to name the names. But he NEVER DID! It was Sterling Hayden that named the names. Not Edward G. Let's set the record straight!

And what does our beloved Little Caesar get for his bravery and integrity under fire? Is he revered? Is he lauded? Is he at least admired for displaying the kind of backbone and grit that is championed by Dalton Trumbo?

No he is not. He gets to be unfairly defamed.
You watch it and say, wow - that Edward G was some POS.

And all for NO dramatic purpose. It had no bearing on the outcome - the 10 were already in prison, hearing EGR naming the names on the radio. Was this some sort of dramatic license? It should not even be LEGAL to slander a real person in this way. EGR's estate should be fuming about it. I would be.

I mean it CAN'T be an unintended mistake. The least fact checking reveals what I wrote above. So it was an intentional deception, assassinating the character of an actual person, known to and loved by millions - and for some unfathomable purpose.

When I learned of this inaccuracy, it spoiled the movie for me.
Granted, I'm a big Edward G fan. I love all of his roles. Every one of them. One of my favorite actors of all time. How would the director or script writer like it if after they're dead, they are made out as villains and traitors?

I realize that this sort of chicanery happens in the movies all the time.
I think it's wrong.
It's one thing when a movie is an obvious fantasy, another when it is clearly and ostensibly depicting real events.

So as good a movie as it is, I have to give Trumbo only 2 stars.

[–] scorsese-1 9 years ago

Robinson never named names. Elia Kazan the director spilled his guts too. But they already had the names.

[–] marfrie56 9 years ago

I can forgive someone for naming names.
When confronted with ruination, it is an understandable course - to squeal if it's going to save you.
What is nearly unforgivable is saying a man squealed when he didn't.
But it was an excellent movie in all other respects - can't figure out why they blew it with this one thing when it was so avoidable.

[–] lazlopanaflex 9 years ago

I had to turn it off at that point, I'm a huge EGR fan and thought that never happened. He never spiller his guts and his career still suffered, felt this was a kick in the face to his name.

[–] ctelbako 9 years ago

I recall a friend who knew film composer David Raksin ("Laura", etc.) saying that he asked David why he named names. David apparently replied something like, "You don't know. You weren't there." Well, none of us were. Having well-paying careers, familes, etc. on the line? I don't know.

[–] benman46 9 years ago

I don't feel the least bit sorry for Edward G Robinson. He may not have named names but he did abandon his friends and lie to the committee saying he had been the dupe of communist sympathisers, all because his way of life was threatened. The man was a coward like many people in Hollywood at the time. So no lunatic EGR fan will convince me otherwise.

[–] Bobby_Dupea 9 years ago

So no lunatic EGR fan will convince me otherwise.

Like EGR would really care what you think...

It's easy to sit back 60 - 70 years later and make judgements like that, now isn't it?

[–] benman46 9 years ago

It's not a judgement it's the truth, something that was in short supply at the time. You're right EGR wouldn't care, particularly as he's been dead for over 40 years.

[–] Bobby_Dupea 9 years ago

No, that's your opinion, that's not the truth.

Learn to know the difference.

[–] benman46 9 years ago

That's your opinion not the truth.

[–] Bobby_Dupea 9 years ago

No DUH.

Now you're catching on. Who knows, maybe you'll make it someday, son.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] chrlrhoads 9 years ago

Excuse me - but I actually knew someone who was intimately involved in this situation and it is a lie.

And the makers of this movie have done a great wrong. Robinson isn't around to defend himself. Over twenty years ago, I saw a letter in which Robinson talked about the entire situation to this other person. I saw it with my own eyes. And my friend told me how he aided Robinson in later years. I have no reason to doubt my friend or Robinson's words.

So, it IS an egregious error,that this film Trumbo (2015) depicts Robinson betraying his friends by naming them as communists to the House Un-American Activities Committee. In fact, Robinson testified before the committee four times but never named names in the sense of accusing anyone of being a communist or fellow traveler. He stated that he had been duped by Communist front organizations, but he never named Dalton Trumbo or anyone else except as fellow liberals who had on occasion invited him to participate in political rallies, etc.

[–] hammerbutt 9 years ago

Decide for yourself

Mr. AValter. Mr. Robinson, you stated that you were duped and
used — by whom ?

Mr. Robinson. By the sinister forces who were members, and prob-
ably in important positions in these organizations.

Mr. Walter. Well, tell us what individuals you have reference to.

Mr. Robinson. Well, you had Albert Maltz, and you have Dalton
Trumbo, and you have — what is the other fellow, the top fellow who
they say is the commissar out there ?

Mr. Walter. John Howard Lawson?

Mr. Robinson. Yes, John Howard Lawson. I knew Frank Tuttle.
I didn't know Dmytryk at all. There are the Buchmans, that I know,
Sidney Buchman and all that sort of thing.

It never entered my mind that any of these people were Communists.

That's all straight out of the original hearings transcript and is almost verbatim to whats in the movie

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] flyzone1 9 years ago

"It's easy to be brave from afar."
Aesop

[–] jhgard 9 years ago

Hi there, marfrie56

Robinson did in fact name names to HUAC. The transcript of his actual congressional testimony on April 30, 1952 does reveal that he named several names including Trumbo's. You can find the documentation and transcript of this hearing in a document called "COMMUNISM IN HOLLYWOOD MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY" on page 2421 in the chapter titled "Communist Infiltration of Hollywood Motion-Picture Industry - Part 7" on file in the University of California's library. You can also read the full transcript online here: http://www.archive.org/stream/communistinfiltr07unit/communistinfiltr07unit_djvu.txt. Robinson and his interrogator are quoted in the following exchange:

Mr. Walter. Well, tell us what individuals you have reference to.

Mr. Robinson. Well, you had Albert Maltz, and you have Dalton Trumbo, and you have — what is the other fellow, the top fellow who they say is the commissar out there ?

Mr. Walter. John Howard Lawson?

Mr. Robinson. Yes, John Howard Lawson. I knew Frank Tuttle. I didn't know Dmytryk at all. There are the Buchmans, that I know, Sidney Buchman and all that sort of thing. It never entered my mind that any of these people were Communists.

You'll note the dialogue from the movie was taken almost verbatim from Robinson's actual testimony (Louis CK's character "Arlin Herd" was named in the film because he is a composite of John Howard Lawson and other real blacklistees). This testimony proves that Robinson, in no uncertain terms, both confirmed previously mentioned names and brought new ones to light.

Thank you.

[–] gnix1979 9 years ago

Well said, and well researched.

I knew Robinson blabbed when I did a dissertation on Spartacus and covered a chapter on Trumbo and comparing the struggles between Spartacus in the movie sense and the trials and tribulations of the main 10 blacklist members.

At the time I had restrictions accessing some of the testimonial sources so thanks for the link, I am looking forward to reading the whole thing.

[–] Balibari 9 years ago

Is there such a thing as an online list of Hollywood figures who did name names? I'm familiar with the more infamous ones but I have no idea how many there were in total.

[–] 3rdrowleft 9 years ago

I don't know of an online source, but Robert Vaughn in his book Only Victims (his doctoral thesis) includes a comprehensive list in the appendix.

But throughout it all, my motto was "Dignity! Always dignity!".

[–] PopperTheKungFu-Dragon 9 years ago

Wow. Like the OP I always thought that Robinson had never named names. It even says so in the trivia for this film. For that reason, though I loved this movie, that part kinda ruined it for me too. But thanks for clearing this up and showing that the movie was in fact right.

My respect for Ed G. has gone down a bit, but I suppose I might have done the same in his place. Its easy to judge when you haven't had to live through something like that.

Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Cried

[–] SenjoorMutt 9 years ago

Most people would brake under that pressure. Most back then and most of us right now. No one would ever want to jeopardise their own good and comfortable life by being blacklisted. It's very easy to judge, but the truth is that there are very few people with enough backbone not to care (or actually care enough) to go all the way to the end.

[–] elwyn5150 9 years ago

brake = (v) to apply pressure to stop
break = to be damaged or to yield

[–] hammerbutt 9 years ago

Its odd that he keeps saying that he was duped and had no idea that the meetings he was hosting were for communists. Was this some kind of deal he made with the committee so he didn't have to admit his own past or was he lying to them?

[–] Bobby_Dupea 9 years ago

You sound like you were there. You tell us.

[–] Jack_LesCamela 9 years ago

Its odd that he keeps saying that he was duped and had no idea that the meetings he was hosting were for communists. Was this some kind of deal he made with the committee so he didn't have to admit his own past or was he lying to them?

He was trying to save his career and livelihood, but he really had nothing to apologize for. He was just doing his best to tell them what they wanted to hear, so they'd stop smearing him in the press and he could go on with his life. That's not how bullies work though.

"I speak Spanish to God, French to women, English to men, and Japanese to my horse."

[–] satansfist 9 years ago

Are you going to revise your rating of the film?

[–] featheredsun 9 years ago

So... marfrie56, a person behaving rightly might just admit that they were wrong in this case. Since, y'know, we now have actual proof that EGR DID give out names to Congress. Or refute the proof. Something.

Just a suggestion.

I mean, really, so what if he did spill on the names of his communist buddies...who were ALREADY implicated by others. Sure, it's not a very respectable thing, but, given the pressure he was under, it's somewhat understandable.

[–] got_my_head_in_the_clouds 9 years ago

I get that the movie kinda loses credit for historical accuracy on this one. But even if he didn't spill the names, he still betrayed his friends and the cause. I guess edward spilling the names added a clearer tone to his character in the movie, maybe that justifies the option.

[–] BulmaPunkRocker 9 years ago

Thank you hammerbutt and jhgard.
The movie is as accurate as it can regarding this issue.

Why OP doesn't express his opinion, now with the facts clear?

Please excuse my terrible redaction, english is not my native language

[–] johncg25 9 years ago

Uhh, maybe they did not have an actor to play Sterling Hayden, or not want to write him into the film ? (He was apparently really tall.) Or maybe his story would not be as interesting to the story, or maybe he did not have as close a relationship to Trumbo, in which case you would possibly be complaining about that.

I didn't know the story, and I am glad you mentioned that Robinson did not actually name names, so I know. But, I wasn't judging him that much anyway, and just because its in a film, you should not assume it was true. Movies, even period pieces make alterations to story and characters, to make for a better, more compelling story. The scene towards the end with Robinson and Trumbo was one of the better moments in the film, and they probably had to have one of his friends "betray" him...for a better film. So, there are many reasons...it made for a slightly better film. and I wasn't even judging Robinson that bad anyway as most of the other generic characters treated him much worse.

Relax. I still like Edward G. Robinson.