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Olive's refusal to get some professional HELP


Here's an interesting comment because of the way that it suggest people use to be MORE MISERABLE and more MEAN to each other than they are now:

http://necromancyneverpays.blogspot.com/2009/05/olive-kitteredge.html


Readers Comments:

Does it seem to you that people's lives used to be more miserable, and that perhaps made them more miserable to each other?

I'm thinking about some elderly female relatives of my own.

Nowadays if your sister-in-law says something mean to you, you don't need to stew over it for 70 years. I think.



So what do you think??? Are they right???

Was it NORMAL back then to SNAP at and BARK at people the way we see OLIVE doing???

Or do we BARK at each other more now than they use to do back then???

And ...

* was it right to expect a woman who's been taught to be SELF RELIANT to accept HELP from one of her former students who majored in Social Work???

* Was it right to expect her to join in the SUPPORT GROUP session when her son comes to visit??

* Was it right to expect someone OLIVE'S age to accept help from the GRIEF worker???

A few years ago a woman in her mid 60's said she had trouble seeing a therapist who looked like he was the same age as her grandson.

So perhaps that's also not being very REALISTIC to expect Olive to get therapy from one of her former students who she also still sees as being BAD in MATH???

Imagine her sitting there in a therapy session with her.

She'd most likely keep seeing the YOUNGER VERSION of this other girl (the same way as she kept looking at the photo of the YOUNGER VERSION of DOYLE when she visits his mother).

So when looking at it this way ...

doesn't it also become much more easy to understand that OLIVE wasn't being as UNREASONALBE as she seems to be ...

or how getting help from someone who might be 40 YEARS YOUNGER than you are would also seem VERY ODD to OLIVE???


Because even if THE MOUSE had gotten her degree in PSYCHIATRY ...

and had gone on to have a successful career where she becomes as famous as FREUD ...

to OLIVE she'd probably also still forever be seen as being someone who is as DUMB as a ROCK???




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PREVIOUS QUESTION:

Does it seem to you that people's lives used to be more miserable, and that perhaps made them more miserable to each other?




The way that they describe GENERATION Y and their NARCISSISM, it sounds like Chris fits the profile, which may also be due to the way that he's been SPOILED and PAMPERED by HENRY:


http://nypost.com/2010/05/10/the-worst-generation/

Gen Y workers get a bad rap in the workplace, with many a geezer complaining that their work ethic is less developed than their sense of entitlement. But is that really fair?

Yes, according to new research that’s yielded actual data to back up that notion.

In a series of studies using surveys that measure psychological entitlement and narcissism, University of New Hampshire management professor Paul Harvey found that Gen Y respondents scored 25 percent higher than respondents ages 40 to 60 and a whopping 50 percent higher than those over 61.

In addition, Gen Y’s were twice as likely to rank in the top 20 percent in their level of entitlement — the “highly entitled range” — as someone between 40 and 60, and four times more likely than a golden-ager.

Harvey’s conclusion? As a group, he says, Gen Yers are characterized by a “very inflated sense of self” that leads to “unrealistic expectations” and, ultimately, “chronic disappointment.”

“Even if they fail miserably at a job, they still think they’re great at it.”


when it comes to work, the two things Gen Yers care most about are a) high salaries, and b) lots of leisure time off the job.

“They want everything,” says Campbell. “They want the time off. They want the big bucks.”

To reach their conclusions, Campbell and co-author Jean Twenge — a professor of psychology at San Diego State and author of “Generation Me,” a book examining discontent among members of Gen Y —

“The findings really support the idea that they’re entitled,” says Campbell.

All this leads to a question:

Where exactly does this tsunami of privilege come from?


Entitlement “gets ingrained in the formative years,” says Harvey. “It stems from the self-esteem movement, telling kids, ‘You’re great, you’re special,’” he says.

Echoing the findings in Twenge’s “Generation Me,” Harvey says the “ultimate irony” of jamming unwarranted notions of self-worth into youngsters like corn down a goose’s throat is that it has the unintended effect of higher rates of depression in Gen Y.

“You see high levels of disappointment,”





But as you can see we also seem to have a disagreement about which GENERATION is the WORST ONE:

http://www.esquire.com/features/worst-generation-0400

Boomers still can't grow up. Guys who once dropped acid are now downing Viagra; women who once eschewed lipstick are now getting liposuction. At the risk of feeding their narcissism, I believe it's time someone stated the simple truth: The Baby Boomers are the most self-centered, self-seeking, self-interested, self-absorbed, self-indulgent, self-aggrandizing generation in American history.

I hate the Boomers.


http://thehamsterdam.com/2012/03/23/the-worst-generation/

generations in human history (that we actually care about)?

The Silent Generation 1925 – 1945

Baby Boomers 1946 – 1964

Generation X 1965 – 1980

Millennials 1981 – 1995

A$$ Holes 1996 – 2012



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I think all of this is a superficial view. The psychologists draw their conclusions from a single experiment; they're just guessing, making sweeping statements informed by bias. Social "science" is typically problematic this way. A comparison of social contexts is totally absent, rendering the conclusion specious. Really this is nothing more than a version of the old, empty, "kids today" complaint.

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I don't think it's fair to pit the conflicts reflected in the story as a generational dichotomy i.e. boomers vs X'ers vs millenials etc. although it really is front and center in the development of the drama. Sadness and meanness translates across generations but our pathological inclination to root out every ounce of ill will, feeling bad, and depression out of every human being made us dissect the problem in a mechanical way. We took it so personally that we declared a war on sadness and called it a disease/problem that needs to be treated because really, "hey, who wants to feel bad and be around people of that kind who really are mean pricks". Society is built that way, to reward jovial, easy going people who are fun to be around (and it's obvious why).

But personally, just my opinion; I think there is justification for every worldview out there so along as it is kept personal and doesn't hurt anyone in a physical way. Happiness or in the drama, "being blindly positive" (because being negative really doesn't help anyone) should not have a monopoly on the spectrum of human emotions but we're acting collectively to really root out sadness like it's the next epidemic (the worldview taken by Olive's son after years of harassment)

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Society is built that way, to reward jovial, easy going people who are fun to be around (and it's obvious why).


But look at what happens to Henry who is one of the JOVIAL and EASY GOING types throughout most of the story.

When he encounters Jack and his wife while standing in line at the NEW PHARMACY neither one of them even remembers him until he reminds them who he is (after which the wife also has him fetch some meds for her for her cruise).

Then POOR HENRY also encounters the other young GIRL who is putting FATHER'S DAY CARDS into the DISPLAY CASE who informs Henry that her Father wouldn't want to know what she thinks of him, after which Henry says, "That's too bad," to which she replies saying:

NO IT'S NOT.

So instead of meeting another MEEK MOUSE type at the NEW PLACE, the former JOVIAL and EASY GOING Henry meets this other UNPLEASANT girl who BARKS back at him when he tries to be nice to her.

So in this case the JOVIAL and EASY GOING HENRY definitely wasn't REWARDED for his being that way.

Then (with the exception of OLIVE and his son that ONE time), we also don't see anyone else VISITING him in the NURSING HOME.

So where's the REWARD for his being JOVIAL with others for the 25 YEARS that he ran HIS PHARMACY???



And what about what OLIVE says about how their son BROKE his FATHER'S HEART when he doesn't move back to MAIN where they hoped to have grandkids living NEXT DOOR to them???

Was she right???

Because Henry also didn't seem so JOVIAL anymore once he's RETIRED. Remember how he stands there and STARES out at the BAY???

How he MOPES in the ATTIC with the TRAIN SET he was hoping to set up for his grandkids???

If Olive is wrong, and it wasn't his SON who puts HENRY into this FUNK like state of mind, then what does???

Happiness or in the drama,

"being blindly positive"

(because being negative really doesn't help anyone)

should not have a monopoly on the spectrum of human emotions but we're acting collectively to really root out sadness like it's the next epidemic

(the worldview taken by Olive's son after years of harassment)



Not sure what you mean here. One understands what you mean when you say HAPPINESS shouldn't have a MONOPOLY on our emotions, and how we ROOT OUT SADNESS, but the last part is a bit FOGGY.

Are you saying OLIVE'S SON has taken this WORLDVIEW that SADNESS needs to be ROOTED OUT???

Because by the end of the story he also LOOKS SEVERELY DEPRESSED. Look at the way he's dressed in what looks like second hand THRIFT SHOP clothing.

When you compare this to the way he's dressed when he visits his Father in the NURSING HOME there's a HUGE DIFFERENCE.

He's also UNSHAVEN as well.

So his PROZAC that he says he's taking doesn't seem to be working very well.

His therapy must not be going well for him either.

On the other hand, his MOTHER who's had NO THERAPY and has taken NO DRUGS is also doing much better, prior to the time when her SON TORMENTS her with the SICK JOKE about the death of O'CASEY (which also seems to trigger or bring back her symptoms of PTSD).

So if CHRIS buys into this WORLDVIEW that we need to WEED OUT SADNESS, it's also IRONIC how he also LOOKS like one of the SAD himself.

And ROOTING OUT SADNESS also reminds one of something from a novel called BRAVE NEW WORLD where everyone was required to take a DRUG called SOMA in order to keep one from feeling SAD.

So if that's also what OUR SOCIETY is up to, then one also suspects it's not going to WORK very well in the end or any better than it worked for those in the other society of the BRAVE NEW WORLD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World

In the book, soma is a hallucinogen that takes users on enjoyable, hangover-free "holidays". It was developed by the World State to provide these inner-directed personal experiences within a socially managed context of State-run "religious" organisations; social clubs. The hypnopaedically inculcated affinity for the State-produced drug, as a self-medicating comfort mechanism in the face of stress or discomfort, thereby eliminates the need for religion or other personal allegiances outside or beyond the World State; the book describes it as having "all the advantages of Christianity and alcohol, none of their defects."

In the World State, people typically die at age 60[15] having maintained good health and youthfulness their whole life. Death is not feared; anyone reflecting upon it is reassured by the knowledge that everyone is happy, and that society goes on.






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With mental illness sometimes help can be a hindrance. It's what I call a three door situation. First you have to acknowledge the door, decide to open it and then, hardest of all...walk through it...

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