I get that he said "I like you because you like me" and that's when her face changed, yet, I still don't get why that might be offensive or insulting.
Is it just me that can't see the bigger point here??
Yeah, I didn't understand why she got all bent about that, either. If that was all he said, I can see how she thought he was being selfish and arrogant, but he followed it up with, "I think that says a lot about how great you are as a person." She was being kinda bitchy in that scene anyway, so maybe she was just looking for something to be angry about. /shrug
shareMiscella^
I go with the 'kinda bitchy'.
and, I would add 'picky'.
I realize what the scene was *supposed* to show, but she should have given the guy a break, IMHO.
I wouldn't have allowed that ending comment to erase what he had said prior to it nor would I have ignored his obvious romantic posture and emotion -- if I truly loved him.
He obviously loved her...and so what if he doesn't always say the right thing at the right moment...
no one is perfect...
I think he would have cleaned it up...if she would have given him the chance, instead of going off all pissed & pouty..
"Shake your hair girl with your ponytail"
It was meant to show that he is arrogant and selfish.
shareBecause he said like, not love. Early in the hotel scene she was trying to get him to actually say he loved and he couldn't actually say the words. And then not even there in that moment could he even say the words
shareIt's because he's a narcissistic, narcissistics primary concern is themselves and the way people see them. He even said in the end scene "relationships are all about finding someone who likes you as much as you like yourself". It was all about him.
shareThat is not why at all. I don't understand how people can't see this, it's so obvious. "I like you because you like me" translates to "I like you because you have the unique sense to understand all my glory and worth." He likes her because she appreciates his worth. That is the end of the sentence. He has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
shareExactly. After going through the monologue (beautifully acted out and well written) focused on her and how much he loved things about her, he ended on a total brain fart and said 'most of all, what I like about you is that you like me'. He not only changed from love to like, but he put the focus onto himself and emphasized it with most of all.
As I seen so many lies... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-r0kh4u7xE
he ended on a total brain fart and said 'most of all, what I like about you is that you like me'...
Yes. I forgot about this too.
As I seen so many lies... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-r0kh4u7xE
Yup. You may have forgotten, but it was as if Kim didn't even hear it...
shareYou guys are far too hung up on the "narcissist" factor.... which is vague to say the least. The last scene alone kind of kills the "incapable of love" type labeling.
When he says that... SHE may hear it as him liking himself/not saying love/etc. But it was written like a genuine compliment... from his perspective- he thinks she's great because someone as great as she could like someone flawed. Isn't an insult.
But that's how dialogue works in real life... you say one thing and people hear another.
from his perspective- he thinks she's great because someone as great as she could like someone flawed. Isn't an insult.
She liked her because she tolerated him even though most people wouldn't. It wasn't about narcissism, he's aware of his faults.
shareMixed messages and misinterpretation of intent is a common problem in communication, and it definitely applied here because he certainly wasn't trying to be what came across to her - he was getting ready to propose after all.
This part weighed heavily on me. I have a lot to say, lol noone will probably read all this but there's so much subtext here and a lot more going on than people are noticing:
He was saying the right things, just really beautifully telling her why he loved her. Women need to hear the small things you love about us. What he was saying is literally what every woman in the world needs and wants to hear and know that the guy we love loves us for who we are no matter what, and loves the smallest things about us that noone else probably even notices. But then he completely ruined it, when he said "But what I like most is that you like me as much as I like you. That says a lot about someone's character."
Now, there's A LOT going on there. To her, that was basically saying, you are amazing, but the best thing about you is that you like me. And when he said that says a lot about someone's character---to her he is sounding like a complete narcissist. That can translate into, "If someone likes ME as much as I like them or like myself, they know what's up. Because I am the best thing since sliced bread."
He may have not meant it that way. Sometimes guys word things horribly. My guess is that while he DID bring the word back from love to like, showing he ultimately is incapable of LOVE because he subconsciously even in that moment of romance and pouring his heart out ended using the word like, which isn't good--which she did notice---he may have meant "Liking me as much as I like you shows a lot about someone's character" he may have meant "I am so analytical, and guarded, can be obnoxious and self righteous etc etc, so for you to PUT UP WITH ALL MY CRAP and actually like me, (showing huge insecurities) says a lot about you and our relationship" Now if that is what he meant which is what I think---even though he had some characteristics of a narcissist, he wasn't one completely. He was scared about being late to the wedding, he cared what people thought about him, and was extremely afraid of losing her, which shows insecurity and that is not a narcissist.
So, ultimately it makes sense, if I were her I would have gotten pissed off and walked away as well seeing everything he said in that last part was the opposite of what she wanted to hear. He brought it back to "like" he brought it back to it being about HIM, and not her or them. She knew in that moment all her worst fears about him and commitment and everything being about him and on his terms was definitely valid.
I didn't like him very much as a character but in that moment I did feel bad for him because I think he worded that last part incorrectly, and definitely is incapable of true love and trust. And that is just who he is. But that was his way of telling her he didn't want anyone else even if he couldn't express it the way she did. But for her it wasn't enough and I get that.
Noone wants to be in a relationship with someone who likes the fact that their partner loves them or likes him as much as they like/love us, and that being the thing he "likes" the most. That is the worst thing to "like" the most. The thing he should "love" the most are those small sweet things he was saying he "loved" (in his own way) which I think from him is infatuation and admiration and addiction, and the biggest thing he should "love" is what they bring out in each other and how she makes him feel from her being HER, not because she likes him back.
I don't know why this pulls me so much---but it was just so blatant. It was the perfect example and was very well written of what never to say to a woman, especially while proposing marriage, and something you should strive the opposite for when it comes to love. If you can't strive for the opposite of that or end up being able to LOVE and love everything more than the fact that they like or love you back (that's something that should just be known as a given at the beginning of your relationship) then you are not capable of having a solid, healthy, romantic loving equal relationship.
he said he was diag with narcissist personality disorder at the beginning of the film, pretty simple.
sharewow, thanks for this! i did take the time to read it and definitely agree that even when he could've had good intentions and his feelings might've been in the right place, the wording was definitely not the best to describe it all.
share[deleted]
I think you gave a really good setup of the scene. It is the key scene of the movie and of their relation imho.
I believe it might have another subtext of she not believing what he was saying because of their inner contest of convincing the other that love does/does not exist. She "fell for his lie" (she called him upon it when walking out) while she was vulnerable,. Something they talked about in the past.
It looked to me this was the only moment where he actually might have believed love was real, at least for a short moment before he messed up.
The messing up is a whole other thing to think about. Maybe he messed up because he didn't understand the concept of love, maybe he couldn't translate the intense feeling or maybe the small moment where he believed love was real faded away and he started using his brain again and therefore failed in the end. This all combined with your analyses.
I think the scene has a lot of layers binding the whole movie, and a fair lot of other scenes, together.
He has a different notion of love than she does. Like at the end, he says that relationships are basically finding someone who loves you as much as you love yourself. She disagrees. So when he says that he likes her because she likes him, that's just him saying he likes himself and not endearing at all.
shareAs a person who has been in similar relationships, if you are proposing marriage to someone, doing it for the reason that "you like me" is not enough.
I love my fiancee even if she does not love me. The idea of loving someone because they like you, is a safe cop out. True love is scary. It is not being in control. There is no self. If you truly love the other person, you have nothing to do with it. That is the reason why she is so upset. Love is boundless, dirty, painful and raw. Love is a completely different function from the id. It is that lack of. No matter how crazy it may seem.
Not only the 'like' part, but I instantly thought the last thing he said, he made it about himself.
There's a hole in the world. Feels like we ought to have known. - Spike