Hell?
So did they actually go to hell? Didn't really get the whole thing with the fire, the screams, blood, gargoyle monsters etc. I know there was several references to dantes inferno. Help.
shareThe answer is both yes and no.
The heroine was searching for the philosopher's stone. Before the stone can be achieved, the alchemist must be tested. He/She must experience the fires of torment to be purified.
Basically the alchemists must face themselves and their past actions. They must make amends to any wrong doing and forgive those who hurt them. It sounds rather easy in theory. But in reality we have a psychology that allows us to escape ourselves and our past traumas. We have things about ourselves (real and imaginary) we don't want to admit aloud. So coming to terms with ourselves and our actions is quite painful. This is why Alchemists call this stage the Death stage or Nigredo. The suffering is called the Torture of the Elements.
The heroine and her companions in this film entered a kind of interior space, inside themselves. But this space could also be reached by any other alternate realities...maybe even hell.
The only ones who survived were the only characters who faced their past wrongs.
There is much more in the film, but that would be a whole essay.
That's perfect thanks. Makes more sense now.
shareIf its possible I would like to read more about your point view.
The concept of the dead coming into this plane so easily and luring people into hell... Well I heard about spirits saying good bye to their loved ones...
The man in the burning car was the one who told them to get Pap... Also the woman in white at the club seems to be seeking revenge on Bengie... But he never notices her?
And what about the stone? Is it a heart without anger or resentment??
Alchemy is called the Great Work. The point of this work is Psychological and/or, if you are religious, Spiritual Transformation. The point behind it all is to become a better person.
But before you can become that better person you have to face who you are, all your past wrongs, all your wrong decisions and everything else that has been holding you back with regret or denial. However facing yourself is extremely painful process. Which is why the imagery of Alchemy portrays it as death. It is called the Death stage or Nigredo.
The ghosts in the film aren't real ghosts they are people who the protagonists feel they have wronged. Scarlett felt that she ignored her father while he was in emotional/psychological pain and that her absence may have been a cause behind his suicide. This is why she keeps seeing his body. The burning car was something in Papillon's past where he caused this accident and saved himself but didn't do anything to help the others trapped in the car.
Now what is the mystery are the robed figures. They could be just figments of the imagination. Or it could be that the suffering of the protagonists allowed hell to touch the world of the living for just a bit.
The stone is pure spirit/pure love/pure strength or bravery. It symbolizes a fully realized, loving and compassionate person. Scarlett came to terms with her treatment of her father, she finally admitted that her quests were extremely selfish on her part and that she mistreated the man she loved. When she faces all of that, she is able to be the philosopher's stone. The actual, physical object is worthless.
How does this all explain the healing of the stone, the girl's earlier death, and the mole?
Also what about how Scarlett saw her father hung in Iran? Are we to assume that was just a subconscious image from guilt amidst the chaos?
To explain all your questions would require a huge essay. But I'll try to give the information quick and dirty.
The heart of Alchemy is transformation. In the personal realm, it is about spiritual enlightenment much like Buddhism. If you like conspiracy theories then it includes societal transformation, psychological and magical, of the masses. In the dark view of Alchemy, the aim is to get the masses to accept peasant status and worship the elites as actual philosopher stones (what I call the Harry Potter dynamic). These dark alchemy paradigms are shown in films such as Prometheus, The Purge films, any super hero film etc. They always use key elements such as order out of chaos. They also push the elite magical blood Harry Potter paradigm which was born out of Plato's perfect city of 3 class orders. The highest being the Philosophical Kings. Guess who our Kings will be? Not you or me.
However, this film as far as I can tell is about personal spiritual enlightenment and rather benign.
1) The goal is to become enlightened. The stone material (a human being) starts the journey in ignorance and egotism. The first stage is to purify these selfish elements out of the alchemist. This stage is called the Nigredo and that is portrayed in this film. The Nigredo is the death stage in which the Alchemist faces his/her mortality, his/her selfishness and other poor personality traits. Then they seek to rise above these traits, to consciously purge them. To do so is very painful because these bad traits are part and parcel of the Ego personality. The Ego will fight to keep itself whole and the aim to be more enlightened is seen as an attack on the self. So this stage is rather painful.
In the film Scarlet has to come to terms with how she ignored her father when he was in obvious psychological distress. She KNEW he was not well but ignored it for her own aims. Hence the ringing phone she did not pick up (which was her father seeking any solace because he was planning to commit suicide). She also had to come to terms with her mistreatment of the man she loved, George. All the characters are dealing with past faults. The ones who remained in denial, died. The ones who faced themselves and their "sins" survived.
2) Scarlett saw her father in the beginning because she was beginning the journey to find the stone so she was agreeing to face the psychological dangers.
The stone/person can heal because they are fully enlightened. Which all spiritual beliefs say that enlightened people can see more of reality, manipulate it and access powers that we unenlightened cannot use.
Thank you for this post. This fixes some of the holes in my own understanding of the film.
I do think the plot is a mash-up of The Inferno and alchemical legend, and therefore we are supposed to accept that the hell they go into is a real place. Scarlett's search for the stone begins their descent, so to speak, accounting for the hauntings in Iran and the Paris streets before they enter the tunnels. Her Iranian guide does say that the search for the Stone is the path of madness. The path starts with her intention to find the thing and doesn't necessarily coincide with a location.
The demons, lost souls (The Mole), and suffering bodies have a very Dante-ish feel to them. I agree that the real ordeal is confronting inner demons. The Inferno/John Milton references make for a nice creepy background familiar to most horror fans.
The heroine was searching for the philosopher's stone. Before the stone can be achieved, the alchemist must be tested. He/She must experience the fires of torment to be purified.
Basically the alchemists must face themselves and their past actions. They must make amends to any wrong doing and forgive those who hurt them. It sounds rather easy in theory. But in reality we have a psychology that allows us to escape ourselves and our past traumas. We have things about ourselves (real and imaginary) we don't want to admit aloud. So coming to terms with ourselves and our actions is quite painful. This is why Alchemists call this stage the Death stage or Nigredo. The suffering is called the Torture of the Elements.
Was this actually explained in the movie? share
No. It was not explained.
The alchemical elements only speak to the people who know. The rest of the masses get a semi-coherent horror film.
Where can I read about alchemy?
Any other movies like this one.
How do you know so much about Alchemy? Are you British?
Try your library first. Anything you can read on it. That was how I started.
A good beginners book is from one of those silly self teach books.
An Idiot's Guide to Alchemy by Dennis William Hauck.
The next two books are essential for learning about basic pictorial symbols that are highly exploited in films.
A Dictionary of Alchemical Imagery by Lyndy Abraham
Alchemy & Mysticism by Alexander Roob
The Roob book comes in two formats a small travel size edition and a big, thick art book. Get the latter.
After that it all depends on how deep you want to go.
This is a good website for reference:
http://www.alchemywebsite.com/
Also read up on your Plato. After that, check out books on neoplatonism (these philosophers turned Plato into a religious figure). If you know Plato and his later spiritual reputation, you will begin to understand some of the key concepts in Alchemy. Also why it pushes a pure blood, King/Queen paradigm.
Good luck in your studies! I promise you, it will open a whole new insight into plenty of Hollywood fantasy and sci-fi flicks.
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In response to the OP, I personally think the group was in either the outskirts of Hell that's not exactly Hell proper but more like a Hellish pocket dimension that's infested with demons, is a "dark, corrupt reflection" of reality, and may or may not be connected to Hell proper (like "The Further" from Insidious), or they were in a small section of Hell that was created specifically as a dark "test" of sorts for those seeking the Philosopher's stone. Either way, both options mean they were in Hell's territory and that's my personal opinion.
Welcome to my Nightmare- Freddy Krueger
Thank you!
Very helpful reply. Always a pleasure to talk to intelligent girl.
You are providing a lot of in-depth information, however remember you are speaking with people who probably possess a limited knowledge of Medieval history and alchemy history.
The type of alchemy you are describing (spiritual transformation, becoming a better person, facing your own personal hell, etc..) is rooted more in Buddhism and Hinduism than in the type of alchemy discussed in this movie. This movie mentions the 'Philosopher's Stone', in medieval alchemy the philosopher's stone meant ONE THING, transforming any element into gold and achieving immortality. As a result, it dealt heavily with chemistry. There was no spiritual transformation and other elements you were describing.
Be careful, as you don't want to spread disinformation to curious people who have a limited knowledge of history.
No it isn't disinformation but what I've discovered in my own readings.
Alchemy began in the lab. However alchemists worked on themselves spiritually before they ever touched a tool. They equated the lab changes in the stone with psychological changes in themselves (Nigrido - Ego Death, Albedo - Accepting faults and atonement, Rubedo - the reawakened compassionate adult.)
Eventually alchemy split into two practices, spiritual and physical. It was later determined that BOTH practices are valid in the art. However there are still some alchemists that support the notion that spiritual alchemy must be practiced in conjunction with lab alchemy.
The film shows that the path of the physical stone leading to riches/royalty/immortality is WRONG. The right path was spiritual, the way of rectification. The way of controlling emotions, admitting to wrong doing and acting as a full adult in the spiritual universe.
Buddhism and Spiritual Alchemy do share many of the same aims. That is to achieve full awakening, the ability to see reality without self-deception. Asia has an extensive alchemical history as well that has enormous influence on its religions.