OK, if someone is following this site and watching the finale, we might want to make comments here during the commercial breaks, like people comment sports events play-by-play. Deal?
It starts in 15 more minutes.
Another Stussy bites the dust.
Now, the Varga vs. Nikki confrontation is coming.
Tension...
shareDarn, no Nikki - Varga confrontation yet. He escapes, she leaves.
shareSo, the last Stussy isn't toast yet. He was too fast to recover from such a blow to the head.
shareSo far I'm not liking the finale.
shareOh no, they killed Nikki!!!
No fun.
Very well filmed as usual but very disappointing.
The kind of error the villains in James Bond movies always make. Instead of just shooting already, they spend too much time yapping and yapping and yapping and then it's too late and they get screwed.
Now Wrench kills Emmit 5 years later? Why???
Disappointing finale.
Hated it. The old trope of the ambiguous finale.
So, waste is not tolerable.
Yep, it isn't.
What a waste.
The finale wasn't ambiguous... the wealthy write the history and make the rules and we are all powerless to stop it... waste is a reference to humankind's futile struggle against nature.
shareI know that, but there is always the possibility that instead of a corrupt superior coming to free Varga, there would be three DHS agents to take him to Rikers.
I know that chances are that things will happen the way Varga mentioned. I'm just saying that leaving it hanging in the air is a trope.
Yes. I wondered about that too. It doesn't make sense.
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Bummer! She was my favorite character. I thought for sure she would survive as she appeared to be this year's Peggy Blumquist.
Also a bummer seeing Emmit being killed, especially since I can't figure out why.
So did the Asian guy get killed?
Why did Wrench kill Emmit?
Did Varga go to jail?
I'm confused.
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I think since she left him pretty much all the money it showed in the end she cared more about Ray then the money. This was Wrench fulfilling Nicki's wish. Maybe it took him that long to find Emmit to kill him, or he waited on purpose? I didn't love this finale, but I didn't hate it, and enjoyed most of the season
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Oh okay, thanks. That makes sense. She did tell Wrench all she wanted was the brother.
Any thoughts on whether the Asian guy was dead, or what happened to Varga?
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Asian guy was killed in that shootout at the storage place. They showed his body being taken out on a stretcher.
Wrench was apparently carrying out Nikki's only wish, she told him he could have the money and she just wanted the brother. Why it took Wrench 5 years, I do not know. I could understand waiting 2 years because Emmet did 2 years for tax fraud, but once he's out of prison then wack him.
Varga simultaneously went to jail and walked free. The cat is both dead and alive. It's Schrodinger's paradox!
He was being taken out on a stretcher but not in a body bag so maybe he was on a stretcher to get medical attention. The makers did leave it ambiguous in purpose (which is a trope).
Emmit did not serve two years in jail. He got a 2-year probation sentence.
Varga can't simultaneously go to jail and walk free. Either a corrupt superior will come to rescue him, or three DHS agents will come to take him to Rikers. It was left ambiguous in purpose (again a trope, although changes are overwhelming that it will happen the way he mentioned, not the way she mentioned).
Yes, it was utterly unrealistic. Not that Fargo shies away from utterly unrealistic thing (UFO, hello?).
I think what was worse was the attempt to kill Nikki by ambushing the prison bus; that was completely unnecessary as she had already been arrested and charged with the crime, and knew nothing that could have compromised Varga. Coming after her made for good cinema but was a writing mistake since it was not needed. They wanted a scapegoat to get charged for killing Ray. They got one. What would they get for killing her? All she knew was that a Cossack and an Asian beat her up, and she would be unable to prove it since the police took her bruises as domestic violence from Ray.
By the way if they really wanted to kill her to prevent the unlikely event that she'd come after them after serving a long, long sentence, they could just bribe some inmate to stick a shank into her. No need for the huge liability of ambushing a prison bus which could go wrong (like it did).
""""I think what was worse was the attempt to kill Nikki by ambushing the prison bus; that was completely unnecessary as she had already been arrested and charged with the crime, and knew nothing that could have compromised Varga. Coming after her made for good cinema but was a writing mistake since it was not needed. They wanted a scapegoat to get charged for killing Ray. They got one. What would they get for killing her?""""
I said exactly the same thing in another thread--that sequence made no sense at all, plot-wise. After having seen the entire season now, I really think that was done simply to have Nikki team-up with Mr. Wrench so he could assist her in getting revenge against Emmit and Varga and wrap-up the story with a bang.
The only thing I found worthwhile about the whole prison-bus-hijack-escape sequence was the percussion music track that accompanied it. That was awesome.
The visuals of that crash and the chase through the woods was so good, it was worth all the unrealistic plot aspects.
shareThey put Nikki's body on a stretcher too, though, and she's clearly dead. This is something I've noticed in other films and TV shows, where for some reason, the bodies are carried out in gurneys rather than body bags. Maybe the gurneys are cheaper? I don't know.
share'Varga can't simultaneously go to jail and walk free.'
And a cat can't be alive and dead simultaneously but that is why it's a logical paradox. Until you open the box, both outcomes are theoretically true.
it's more of a thought experiment.
I sorta thought Asian Guy (Meemo) looked dead, but they didn't have a sheet over his face. Don't they put a sheet over the face of a dead person?
Very interesting take on Varga. My signature back on IMDB (they should rot in hell) was:
Schrodinger's cat walks into a bar, and doesn't.
So it looks like the big winner this year on Fargo is Wrench. I did not see that coming. Of course with Fargo you usually don't see it coming.
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My guess was maybe wrench didn't know she was dead for a long time. After all they separated at the warehouse. She told him to take the money..maybe he thought nikki decided not to do it and she took off and went undercover for a while. or he took off with the money and hid out for three or four years, came back and found out what happened. after all, he was a fugitive from the law just like nikki was..which is a big plot hole for me. they escaped a prison bus. the would have been plastered all over the tv and cops would have known to look out for them......the other plot hole, was they didn't show emmet picking up his destroyed cell phone. would they not have traced that back to him and charged him with leaving the scene of a crime..unless he notified the state troopers when he got to the next house or town
shareYou just reminded me of something I forgot to mention the day after the finale!
After watching it twice, I was thinking about Emmet leaving his crushed cell phone at the scene, and also if the state trouper car had a dashboard camera. It would show there were 2 cars when he pulled over, and maybe even would show the plates. I meant to post about that but the next morning I forgot about it.
That was definitely a plot hole, he should have been easily tied back to that crime scene. He didn't actually do anything criminal there except for leaving the scene and not calling 911. He didn't shoot anyone. But he should have been tied to it.
I also agree about after the crash them not looking for 2 escaped fugitives. If they don't find their dead body, they should be looking for them. And Juri too. They just took a stupid "oh they probably all escaped to Canada" copout, when all were wanted for murder, armed and dangerous.
It makes some sense from that incompetent Sheriff I guess.
It was a bummer but her character, although crafty and resourceful, was in over her head the entire season. Somehow, her killing a state trooper seemed out of character. Dropping an AC on a junkie made sense but the trooper was almost like an innocent bystander. I feel like she broke the "rules" that were keeping her alive. Speaking of bummer, we did get to see her but (assuming it wasn't a stand in).
shareIn the good old days this thread would have been busy. Too bad liberals have to destroy everything they can't control. The finale was weak and disappointing. The ambiguous non ending is tired and cliche. It seems to appeal to insecure pseudo intellectuals though.
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I agree pan.
Maybe eventually this site will be busy like the old IMDB (Those bastards should rot in hell!)
if the snowflakes don't take over.
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The trolls ruined the IMDb message boards. Trolls of all political persuasions.
shareI'm watching the encore showing now so I'll do a play by play for my second viewing.
The storage place, so this is what i would do if I was Nikki. I'd be on the roof of one elevator car, and put Wrench on the roof of the other. When the guys pile into both elevators, just shoot them all and then grab the suitcase with the money. Or throw in a gas cannister that knocks them all out.
Or, wait for all the minions to go down the hall while Varga stays behind in the elevator like the coward he is, and then just shoot him from the roof of the elevator car!
Before they ever showed Varga escaping through the roof, I kept thinking Nikki would be on the roof, that is what I would do.
All in all though, Wrench is the badass of the episode, he killed all those henchmen all by himself and walked away unwounded? DAMN son!
not to mention that axe throw in the woods that got Juri's ear from a great distance.
The widow Goldfarb works for Varga!!! She turned into an evil ice queen at the end there! Like a Bond Villainess!
Mike and Mike will show you out.
Gloria looks hot in her homeland security uniform.
I like your idea for the two of them being on the roofs of the elevators, then thinking about it further, I realized both elevators would have needed to arrive at and leave the ground floor at the same time for it to work.
Then once all the goons entered them and they started rising, unless the escape door (sometimes only 2' X 3') was already open, Nikki and Wrench would've had to open them before they could shoot. Too risky. Also, it's too easy for the goons to just point their ARs straight up and fire wildly once the shooting started.
Also, Nikki had to remain separate from the upstairs kill so she could take out the two goons that stayed behind with the vehicles.
And yes, the roof of that elevator looked to be completely gone, not a 2' X 3' (or larger) door, and I think that's a bit of a flaw. I don't know how Varga could've opened the entire roof unless he had a very speedy electric screwdriver with lots of bits to choose from.
Strange I thought I replied to this post but I don't see it.
Yes, the roof was unrealistic (not that Fargo shies away from that - UFO, hello?)
More unrealistic was ambushing the prison bus - there was no reason to kill Nikki at that time. She didn't know anything that could compromise Varga besides being beaten up by a Cossack and an Asian - but the police took it as domestic violence from Ray, as intended. They got their scapegoat sent to prison, no need to kill her, and if they wanted to, they could have bribed an inmate to stick a shank into her; much less risky than the ambush which could go wrong and did.
Have fun because this show isn't going to have a fourth season. Lol
shareI found it disappointing too. I thought a lot of their endings were cop outs and unsatisfying. I don't need to necessarily like their conclusions, but as a viewer, I'd like to feel contented with them and I didn't here.
Nikki dying in a quick shoot out with a cop was just, like, "what?" I get that life is random and not everyone goes out in a blaze or whatever, and maybe that was their point, but after building that character up all season and giving her such an arc...for her to go that way just felt a little careless. It was compelling up until the cop came.
Mr. Wrench killing Emmitt didn't feel any better. I understand he did it to fulfill Nikki's quest, but five years later? Mirroring the way that other Stussy died in a subplot that didn't include him? After we had only seen him and Nikki together a few times (I know, I know they went through an ordeal with one another, I do get if someone uses that in their defense, solid enough)? I just felt like there wasn't enough, I don't know, emotional depth to justify that scene. It felt like it was sort of tacked on as a way to get Emmitt out of the way to then move onto Varga.
Speaking of...that cut to black in suspense was just such a downer. I don't need it to tell me bad guys win no matter what or good guys prevail, but that sort of ambiguity or tactic needs to feel earned and I don't think it did. In fact, I think that's what all this comes down to. It didn't feel, to me, that this was an ending that was inevitable or garnered through full enough story telling. It all just felt short changed slightly in a way where they didn't quite know where to go or what to do with it at that point.
The end with Varga and Burgle, that sort of thing can work and I don't always detest it, but it didn't work here, in my opinion. That can either come across as a real dramatic and thematic force or it can feel lazy and/or contrived and, sadly, I think it dipped into the latter rather than the former.
You are right that type of 'ending' ( stopping before the real ending) has been done pretty often. In this particular show, it made a sort of philosophical sense, because all season long they had been dropping in philosophy and physics and 'how do we ever know what really occurred', so the ending was meant to be a logical paradox like Schrodinger's cat. Most shows that end 'up in the air' do not have such obvious references to that stuff, but even with all the philosophy set aside, it's still been done many times. I understood what they were trying to do, but realistically, it's only a paradox for 5 minutes and then one or the other outcome will be known. So like, cutting off the story before the 5 minutes is up and trying to call it a paradox is a bit silly. I mean at the roulette table, everyone is potentially a winner before the ball stops, but they don't pay out everyone at the table. They just wait for the ball to stop! LOL
Someone wins and someone loses.
The finale episode was brought to you by Snickers, so I am taking that as a clue that Gloria does end up at the fair eating a fried Snickers bar with her son.
The finale episode was brought to you by Snickers, so I am taking that as a clue that Gloria does end up at the fair eating a fried Snickers bar with her son.
Jesus guys I can't believe some of your complaints! Came here to discuss the season finale and all I see is a bunch of people trying to MAKE SENSE OUT OF A FARGO SEASON!
You may call it a thrope but Fargo IS ABOUT deeper meaning. It's not that it's supposed to be totally metaphorical but it is HIGHLY ALEGORICAL. Can you imagine if we tryed to digest it "plotwise"? I mean, from a robot to jew ghosts (even Emmit's car miraculously starting after it broke down), this is an "enjoy the ride" series, not a "plot" series, just enjoy it for what it is.
Finally got around to watching it. I had a feeling that there would be some connections to "A Serious Man", given the title, and sure enough it had a Shrodinger's Cat ending. It was a fun season to watch, but the lack of closure makes it somewhat unsatisfying (I suppose it's not really supposed to be). Sad to see Nikki go down like that, but if you're willing to kill a cop, then it's hard to feel too bad. The shootout scene was tension-filled as all getout, but it has to be the only shootout scene I've ever seen without seeing a single gun fire (kind of cool in a way, but hopefully that's the last time).
So I wonder what happens to Emmit's money now that he's gone? Would he have told the wife?
My problem is that in the movie as well as in seasons 1 and 2 there was a moral to it: those who went to the dark side were punished and those who behaved well were rewarded. OK, not everybody, but we could be reasonably sure that justice prevailed.
Here this was turned upside down with loose ends (Juri, Meemo, Varga).
Still loved it and would watch season 4 any time, but overall less satisfying.
Looking back I can't say I loved it. Too dark a tone, less humor, cliché ambiguous ending (which like you correctly mentioned is not what the Fargo universe was about), and overall a big disappointment.
I'll start watching season 4 but if it doesn't go immediately back to what the movie, season 1, and season 2 were, I'll probably dump it, because I won't want to invest 10 weeks just to be disappointed again.
Meh... I didn't like the fact they left too many things to our interpretation: the Asian guy was taken out in a stretcher but looked dead, was he dead or alive?. Varga at the end was left free or not?. What happened to Juri?. The bad guys were the weakest point this season and the finale just confirmed that. Ray was likeable:dead. Nikki was likeable:dead. Emmit was in the middle: dead. For me the show improved when Wrench made his appearance but the finale was weak.
shareClearly Varga got away. A shadow casting on him should have hinted that to you and been enough to symbolize that he always lives in the shadows and is a top dog. lol not rocket science here.
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