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To Those who even THink about critizing Octavia for killing Pike...


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+lokresia
This is legit my favorite comment ever. I will be quoting it at some point lol
"Well, from the very beginning of the show, Bellamy chooses to inspire Octavia on cruelty, violence, killings, irresponsibility and etc. So I just suppose that this scene is the greatest proof of how well she has learned these lessons from him..."

And after looking over the show, from season 1 up till now, I completely agree.

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I don't criticize her for it at all but I don't blame Bellamy for it either. I guess he was a pretty bad influence on her especially after what he did with Pike, but ultimately he always tried to protect her and give her a normal life. Violence and murder was learned by everyone on the ground, it was necessary, so I can't blame him for that. I don't think that's who he was on the Ark at all, and all of them had to do horrible things to survive on Earth.

I think a lot of her emotional instability in S3 stems from her childhood. Bellamy was her entire life and she felt that he betrayed her and got the love of her life killed. She doesn't know how to have a healthy relationship because all she ever knew was Bellamy and her mother, so that's why I think she was so affected by Lincoln's death and why she reacted the way she did. I hope she partners up with Indra next season because she's the one who told her "your home is here [pointing to Octavia]" so she'll be a good influence for her as she matures and becomes more independent.

Bur honestly I think most of them would have done the same thing in Octavia's situation. Indra almost did until she realized they could use Pike's strength to get out. Depending on how the CoL impacted the grounders, Pike would have been killed (and tortured, probably) by them eventually. In terms of the story I think it was the perfect character arc for both Octavia and Pike to have her be the one to kill him and I think it was justified.

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I concur

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Thought crimes matters ?

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Since Octavia landed on earth, she did her best to be independent and dodge her brother's protection/surveillance, then she met Lincoln and tried to become a grounder by all means, she did her hair grounder style, she asked Indra to mentor her and learnt to fight like a grounder to the point that she no longer knows where she actually belongs to. I'd say she's been mostly influenced by grounders and not by his brother.

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Guess what though? Her brother was the one who taught, yes, taught her violence when she first met Lincoln. And that was waay before she learned from Indra, started braiding her hair,or tried to become grounder. Or did you forget the extreme torture Bellamy put Lincoln through?

Yep, Bellamy was teaching her and she didn't like it, but his lessons were taking root enough that the whole thing backfired on Bellamy and she went in another direction than him, toward the grounders.

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Or did you forget the extreme torture Bellamy put Lincoln through?


It was hardly extreme and it was obvious that Bellamy hated doing it but they were trying to find the antidote for the poison in Finn and Lincoln was refusing to tell them.

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OK. I now see what is going on. You don't know what extreme is apparently. I guess extreme torture is not flogging someone with the metal end of a seat belt, I guess extreme torture is not punching a person repeatedly, not taking a sharpen stake and shoving it through someone's hand, and extreme torture is not topping it all off by taking an electric cord and shocking your victim. And frankly, they wouldn't have stopped unless Octavia had cut herself with the dagger.

So yes, it was Hardly extreme!

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Bellamy wasn't teaching anything to Octavia. He had to torture Lincoln like Clarke herself did too, in order to get a cure for Finn. In other words, Bellamy's intention was not teaching Octavia or anyone over there to be violent, his intention was to make Lincoln reveal the antidote to save Finn's life. And before Octavia saw his brother torturing Lincoln, she saw Jasper being spiraled by grounders and almost dying.

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I'm sorry but you need to re-watch season 1 episode 6. It wasn't Clark's idea to torture Lincoln, it was Bellamy's! He was busy telling Clarke that the Only way to help Fin was to beat the information out of Lincoln! And Clark Only consented to what Bellamy Already wanted to do because she was worried about Fin! So, Bellamy Owns that!

And second, I don't care what Bellamy's intention was Octavia still learned to act cruel from him! Some of the worst harm have come from the best intentions and Bellamy did exactly that!

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You want to blame Bellamy for all the wrongs, killings, cruelty and violence in The 100? He's the worst character and you want him to die? Yes, we all know how you feel about him, your comments are blatantly transparent.

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No, I never said I want him to die. But I don't go for all this sugar-coating of him either!

And frankly, Bellamy is one of my top favorites, but even still, I'm not afraid to talk about his faults and erroneous ways!

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No one is sugar coating any of these characters but Bellamy is hardly the worst character so blaming other characters questionable behaviour on him is hardly fair either.

Octagon killing Pike was her decision and hers alone, however the narrative doesn't necessarily frame it as the right thing to do, quite the opposite judging by the shocked expressions and her cold and emotionless face and how the whole scene was shot was to shock and horrify just like with her abusing her brother, the narrative wasn't to show she did the right thing, again quite the opposite and the script support it by adding that she only stopped her brutal abuse because she got tired and her knuckles hurt. All of this will most likely be the catalyst to her spiralling behaviour in s4 and they needed to frame her like this for the continuing story to make sense.

It was her choice to go down this path, it will be her choice to get herself out of it. Bellamy already had his 'go down the wrong dark path and get himself out of it to do the right thing' and now it's Octagon's turn.

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I think this is probably more accurate. Octavia killing Pike was the direct execution of the grounders' "blood must have blood" doctrine and she's been trying to become a grounder most of the series.

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When exactly did Bellamy "chose" to inspire Octavia on cruelty, violence etc etc? I don't think it was his intention, ever. And I don't criticize Octavia for killing Pike, he earned it, but I do criticize her reasons: pure hate and revenge for him killing Lincoln, and for herself to just feel better (which obviously won't work in the process of S4). That's something Bellamy definitely didn't want her to do, and he told her exactly why he didn't want it.

Yes, you sometimes have to go out of your way to protect yourself and others, and hard times require hard decisions, but nothing of this applies in Octavias situation at the end of S3.

"Who we are, and who we need to be to survive are very different things."

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1.

That's something Bellamy definitely didn't want her to do, and he told her exactly why he didn't want it.


Bellamy, who had the Gall to say to her after prepping up Pike's rise and enabling Pike to do all his atrocities, "how much longer O?" Really? The jerk Caused it all, and then got upset when his sister remained upset with him. Did he think his only crime was stealing her horse or something?

Sorry, I love Bellamy's character but I hate his decisions and I believe he's a first class jerk.

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And still he didn't want her to kill (or get) Pike (killed) out of hate and revenge, because he knows where it's leading.

"Who we are, and who we need to be to survive are very different things."

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Octavia can't be blamed for killing Pike, Pike killed her boyfriend and not only that, but his actions have caused a lot of death to others that could have been easily avoided. At least she killed the right person and for a good reason unlike Bellamy that no one fully understands why did he go on a killing spree with Pike yet he'll be "forgiven" like nothing had happened..

Aya A.R

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unlike Bellamy that no one fully understands why did he go on a killing spree with Pike yet he'll be "forgiven" like nothing had happened..


Oh we understand why he did it: a rousing of old anger against grounders he exhibited ever since season 1, guilt over his-"misconceived" sin in trusting grounders in the first place, sadness that he lost his new girl-friend etc.

And we Know why he'll be forgiven: He's the hero, he's the main man in charge, everybody loves him etc. Still, he shouldn't be so easily let off the hook!

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He should redeem himself first then be forgiven. Giving him a free pass after an unreasonable killing spree, teaming up with a dictator which was the same thing he despised and hated on the ark and wanted to get rid of on the ground, killing INNOCENT people in their sleep and not those in war or those that attacked him (hence not blaming him for MW or the ring of fire) gets his sister's bf killed, trusting the wrong person (Echo), messing up the alliance that could have saved his people and had them focused on ALLIE earlier..etc

Nahh, in my book he *beep* up big time and shouldn't be forgiven but if he will be then at least he should fully earn it. Ffs, Clarke killed people at MW those evil people that killed and hunted them down and she didn't have a choice yet she felt bad about it to the point that she couldn't face her people after but Bell on the other hand, he is acting like nothing bad had happened at all. His character started out really good but the Pike teaming up really messed him up for me after he was 1 of my favs.


Aya A.R

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One of the lamest lines on The 100 is Clarke's constant repetition of "I/We didn't have a choice". Yes, you did. You had the choice between killing or getting killed. It's a *beep* choice but it is a choice. So nah, I am not buying that as an excuse for Clarke whenever she says it.

Luna told it best. Because your enemy stops at nothing, you must stop at nothing.

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Well, Clark did feel bad, she left "home" and went on her own for months because she knew that what she did was not right and she didn't want to do it and she didn't plan to do it either, she repeatedly said that children and innocent people in MW shouldn't be attacked in their war, she didn't go on with living her life normally the next day like Bellamy did when he helped kill people at MW or when he went with Pike to murder sleeping grounders that were sent to protect them.

Not buying Clarke's "no choice" excuse but also not buying the acceptance of Bellamy as a "good guy" again just because he helped in getting rid of ALLIE which is something he'd benefit from if he wanted to survive anyways.


Aya A.R

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Bellamy obviously wasn't okay with killing kids and innocents in MT Weather in season 2. It was him who even told Clarke earlier in the season that they have to find a way to beat the mountain without killing everyone. "Clarke, there are kids in here".

Also why do you think he brought that up in his argument with Clarke in 305? "Forced us to kill everyone who helped us? People who trusted me!" Obviously because he felt guilty.

In 216 Clarke told him to take care of the other delinquents for her. Of course he wouldn't "run away" like Clarke. He felt the need to stay.

Also Bellamy has realized what he did with Pike was wrong. Not right away but he got there. I see you aren't willing to see how he handles his guilt and that's fine, I guess, but they all *beep* up at one point or another. Some more than others. That's the whole point of the show. That everyone just tries to survive and save their people.

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The whole MW situation was in a way justified because they didn't count on Lexa's betrayal to happen, they trusted her and she messed up and left them tied with 2 choices. I just found it weird that Bellamy went on with his life normally after it but maybe because it was Clarke's decision after all and also he wanted to save his sister but I just can't find a reasonable explanation to what he did following Pike. But in this show obviously its "okay" to do mistakes and redeem yourself and be forgiven after (ie: Lexa, Roan, Kane) but Bellamy so far hasn't done any "redemption" on his side. Hopefully its because he didnt have much time to do so with all the ALLIE mess, so lets hope he does in season 4 instead of having him being automatically fully forgiven by everyone for taking part in screwing up their camp just like that.

Aya A.R

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Time is always a bit hard to tell on The 100 but I think the 2nd half of the season plays out over like a week or two tops? So yeah, not much he can do "to redeem" himself. I think what Jaha did to the Arkers was way worse, he brought ALIE to them and then also to the grounders. I am more curious how Jaha gets redeemed since I don't see Isaiah leaving the show before it ends.

Bellamy messed up but in the end not a lot of Arkers died because of him joining Pike. I mean most of them seem to have voted for Pike anyway once he was put on the ballot. I don't think Bellamy will have to prove himself all that much to his own people really but to the grounders, especially if they have to work together to beat the next apocalypse.

And just like with the stuff he's done before (throwing away the radio, getting his mother floated, MT Weather in season 2) he will have the massacre hanging over his head, feeling guilty. Jason Rothenberg and Bob Morley already said as much.

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Like you, I don't think Bellamy will have to prove himself to his people. He already admitted to his mistake and the reason was him wanting to protect his people. He thought he was doing the right thing for his people by protecting them against a threat outside their gates, not to mention they weren't doing great. His people was slowly starving and people was growing more paranoid, which is why they elected Pike because he came with a solution to what they thought of as a real problem.

Bellamy handed over Pike to the grounders, like they had demanded, and then proceeded to lead the defense (non-violence approach) against the chipped people so that Clarke could take down ALIE and CoL. The delinquents followed him. Clarke obviously trusted him to protect them, like he always has. She wasn't questioning him and his reasons, nor judging him, because she more than anyone else knows how easy it is to make mistakes, to fall, to be lost. She tried to re-connect with him and offered comfort instead.

The grounders however, might take a bit of work to regain their trust, or at least, truce, enough to work together.

Like Clarke, Bellamy carries every death with him. He blames himself for each and every one of them, whether it's his fault, or by his hands, or not.

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Well, there isn't much time to do anything properly in this show since everything happens with unprecedented speed, but according to you, what should Bellamy do to redeem himself? When he realized he had wrongly sided Pike, he gave the code to Kane in the cave to contact Monty, he set up Pike so he could be captured, he tried to make up in every possible way for his mistake, I just can't figure out what else could he do when they, more than live, face threats, day in and day out with not even time to take a shower lol

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I understand that Bell did fix some of his mistakes and helped the group, I just mean that I hope we do get to see him welcomed to the group sure but not fully forgiven. IF this show gives any of the characters anytime to do anything at all, then he should spend his feeling guilty and trying to be a better person and I hope for the group not to fully accept him until then. I mean remember in season 1 when Murphy got way worse punishment and treatment for less than what Bell did? And to earn the group's trust again he had to prove himself worthy, not just get automatically welcomed back because honestly having "heroes" do something wrong and then being treated totally normal over it just sends the wrong message. Everyone makes mistakes but they should also redeem themselves and fix them, and good thing that Bellamy is half way there already.

Aya A.R

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I mean remember in season 1 when Murphy got way worse punishment and treatment for less than what Bell did?

This doesn't make sense to me. The bad things that Murphy did were AGAINST the delinquents, while everything that Bellamy has done, whether right or wrong, has been to try to protect them and the other Arkers. Let's be honest here - most of the Arkers are suspicious of, or even downright hate the grounders, that's why they elected Pike - so why should they feel they have to forgive Bellamy for what he did?

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This doesn't make sense to me. The bad things that Murphy did were AGAINST the delinquents, while everything that Bellamy has done, whether right or wrong, has been to try to protect them and the other Arkers. Let's be honest here - most of the Arkers are suspicious of, or even downright hate the grounders, that's why they elected Pike - so why should they feel they have to forgive Bellamy for what he did?


^ this.

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The only person who hasn't fully welcomed Bellamy is Octavia and I fear she's gone away. She's the only one who has really endured a terrible loss because of her brother's decision to side Pike. The rest of the gang understand, as Bells himself that he made a wrong decision he now regrets. They understand that he sided Pike in the belief it would be the best thing to protect the Arkers and they also begin to understand how difficult is to make the right decisions when you're living surrounded by enemies and facing threats constantly.

Probably if this show slowed down its pace, we could get to see a better characters development, but as this is not the case, I fear we'll have to settle with what they give us.

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Murphy was harmful to the group on top of being a threat to Bellamy and Clarke's leadership when he tried to kill Charlotte. Bellamy was always trying to protect his people.

Who do you think shouldn't "forgive" Bellamy? No one, other than Octavia or the grounders, has anything to forgive him for. Monty, Harper, Brian, and so many others at camp were on Pike's side too. He's not the only one who was scared of the grounders starving them out - Pike won the popular vote.

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The whole MW situation was in a way justified because they didn't count on Lexa's betrayal to happen, they trusted her and she messed up and left them tied with 2 choices. I just found it weird that Bellamy went on with his life normally after it but maybe because it was Clarke's decision after all and also he wanted to save his sister but I just can't find a reasonable explanation to what he did following Pike.


Didn't count on Lexa betraying them and Bellemy didn't count on Echo betraying him either. Logically, he should have trust issues with the grounders. He chose not to get burned again by trusting the grounders. Seems like a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why he would choose to side with Pike in that moment.

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You can hate his character for everything that he did but he definitely is not continuing like nothing happened. I think a big problem is that he's such a closed off character and you only really see him open up when he's with Clarke. Since she was gone we couldn't explore his thinking until 3x05.

But yeah I think it's really obvious how horrible he feels about everything if you watch 3B. I mean he literally allowed his sister to beat him to a pulp because he felt he deserved it. He turned in Pike which was an attempt at redemption and wanted to help Octavia get Lincoln out. He was crying on the beach with Clarke and expressed his remorse to Pike while saving his people in the finale. He's definitely not fully redeemed and you can choose to never forgive him lol but he's not unaffected by all this.

I also don't think Clarke deserves more credit for running away from her problems in S2. Bellamy was affected too, he was just forced to handle it and look after everyone while she was gone. I don't blame her for leaving, I would probably have too, but the fact that she did doesn't mean she's more empathetic or deserving of forgiveness than Bellamy. If Clarke was faced with the constant burden of taking care of camp while being reminded of what she did, and then having her long term partner be killed because of her actions like Bellamy...maybe she would break too? I really don't think you can criticize him for not leaving.

Didn't one of the writers confirm that since the grounders were isolating the sky people within a small radius they would eventually all starve to death? That doesn't justify what Bellamy did but it's definitely not as one sided as you're describing. Everyone on the show has done terrible things with varying degrees of justification. He's not a cold blooded killer and even if the outcomes are sometimes wrong I think his intention has always been good. Many people have been redeemed for much less and i'm sure the writers won't just be leaving it at that.

If you're talking about the other characters and not the audience, I don't know why you think they shouldn't forgive him when he was fighting for their people. Octavia is rightfully upset but Clarke, Raven, Jasper, Monty, etc...most have no reason to withhold forgiveness. Wouldn't a similar situation be if the grounders didn't forgive Lexa for attempting to massacre all of the kids at the dropship in season one? It's not justified either, and other groups of people (ie skaikru in this case) would have reason to resent her but not her own people.

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But yeah I think it's really obvious how horrible he feels about everything if you watch 3B. I mean he literally allowed his sister to beat him to a pulp because he felt he deserved it. He turned in Pike which was an attempt at redemption and wanted to help Octavia get Lincoln out. He was crying on the beach with Clarke and expressed his remorse to Pike while saving his people in the finale. He's definitely not fully redeemed and you can choose to never forgive him lol but he's not unaffected by all this.


^ agree. It was horrifying to watch that brutal beating, his submission to it because he didn't think he deserved any better. It was such a hard moment, painfully hard to watch. He was completely broken. He was beaten down, not just by his sister, but by the burdens of guilt and shame of the things that went down before it (Mt. Weather, the bomb, Hakledama etc.) that he had to suppress in order to take care of his people, to keep them all going in the face of pain and grief.

Didn't one of the writers confirm that since the grounders were isolating the sky people within a small radius they would eventually all starve to death?


Yes, they had a shortage of food and water because of the forced isolation. They weren't allow to leave for supplies and things were slowly growing more desperate and paranoid.

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Yes, they had a shortage of food and water because of the forced isolation. They weren't allow to leave for supplies and things were slowly growing more desperate and paranoid.


I wish they would have made this more clear during 3A. So much of the Polis plot was completely unnecessary and had no outcome on anything. They could have been focusing on Bellamy's mindset, or the election where people voted in Pike, or more of the violence against Lincoln and rhetoric against grounders, or shown a flashback to Monty's dad trying to save all the kids being slaughtered by Azgeda...there were so many opportunities to make the situation more ambiguous. i really don't know what JRoth was thinking.

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I wish they would have made this more clear during 3A. So much of the Polis plot was completely unnecessary and had no outcome on anything. They could have been focusing on Bellamy's mindset, or the election where people voted in Pike, or more of the violence against Lincoln and rhetoric against grounders, or shown a flashback to Monty's dad trying to save all the kids being slaughtered by Azgeda...there were so many opportunities to make the situation more ambiguous. i really don't know what JRoth was thinking.


Neither do I. Things just made less sense than it should/could have if only he had focused on fleshing out the stories you mentioned.

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All these replies have me giggling, and the original post itself it's ridiculous. Are we really qualifying the moral character of a fictional being?

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