MovieChat Forums > Shingeki no Kyojin (2013) Discussion > Have they ever heard of chain of command...

Have they ever heard of chain of command?

posted 11 years ago by tirkkanen
23 replies | jump to latest

It bugs me immensely that the recruites go through rigorous training and should have at least a hint of discipline but no... Everyone seems to be a lone wolf. No matter who issues a command the subordinates ignore it and do whatever they like. Even Mikasa who is just about in control all the time makes the same mistake. How do they expect an army (that's what they are supposed to be right?) to get anything done without chain of command. I get that they are pissing their pants, but still an order is an order.
Among other things that bug me are the way streched out monologues, they are getting old. And the constant crying... plus it seems impossible for the characters to deliver their message without shouting 95% of the time. I'm done ranting now.

[–] asterisk300 11 years ago

The drawn out monologues is anime for you.

[–] CeroneSicario 10 years ago

In which case Anime is not afraid of being frequently pretentious, especially when it comes to melodrama
-_-

[–] BarneyRubbleNLittleChina 10 years ago

This one takes one's expectations of pretentious drawn out melodrama monologuing to Spiderman extremes as the speech givers talk while flying thru the air ... damn gravity along with attention spans!

I for one love this *beep* 

[–] bradmoreland 11 years ago

These are all pretty much anime genre tropes. I keep seeing the word "groundbreaking" used to describe this series but there is nothing groundbreaking about it at all. Giants attacking the last of humanity with only teenagers to save the day. Yawn!, haven't seen that before in anime. That said, it's still enjoyable most of the time. Once you get past the cliches you can enjoy it but the glacial pacing is what threatens to destroy it. At the end of the series you're left with no resolution and a "Hope you enjoyed it, maybe we'll see you again in a few years!"

[–] cian_jm 10 years ago

It's not the end of the series though, it's just the end of the first season. That was pretty much all that was available for source material when it was released and I for one would prefer a break over tons of filler. Now you can say it's irresponsible to release a series when the manga hasn't gone far enough and they aren't guaranteed a renewal for season 2 but lots of western shows leave seasons with unresolved plots without guarantee of renewal either. Given the success of the show though, it seems very unlikely we won't see more of this.

[–] ebonyknight 11 years ago

Even Mikasa who is just about in control all the time makes the same mistake. How do they expect an army (that's what they are supposed to be right?) to get anything done without chain of command. I get that they are pissing their pants, but still an order is an order.
Among other things that bug me are the way streched out monologues, they are getting old. And the constant crying... plus it seems impossible for the characters to deliver their message without shouting 95% of the time.

It's a culture thing. Japan is a very regimented and traditional society. Society is geared toward the whole and not the individual. The younger generation, tend to be more mildly rebellious, independent and more emotional. This reflects the audience the anime was intended for.

That's a reason why American audiences tend to dislike foreign cinema, because it's hard for us to realize that other cultures and attitudes don't necessarily conform to ours. America is a militaristic society in the wake of WWII. A significant portion of our youth serve. In Japan, military service is rare as they only have a defense force. The younger generation's attitude towards service, authority and tradition is just different. It's cliche to say, but it's a Japanese thing.

Right now the top rated show in Japan is essentially a show where celebrities get together and talk about nothing. Just the same stuff you would talk to strangers at dinner about. I don't get it, but they love it. Conversely I am sure they would scoff at the reality shows we watch.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] nte1igentwon 11 years ago

You make a gross generalization when you say there is little crossover in regards to American celebs performing in different mediums. Very few A-list movie stars of any nationality do TV but many American A-listers still do theater.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] nte1igentwon 10 years ago

Halle Berry, Billy Bob, Thornton, Matthew McConaughy, Woody Harrellson, Keifer Sutherland are some of current movie stars who have/are doing TV now. As far as the disconnectivity of American celebs, once again you make a gross overstatement. Leo and Toby, Brad and George, Ben and Matt, Vince and Jon Favreau, Adam Sandler and his crew, Jerry Seinfeld and Chris Rock, J-Lo and (name escapes me) co-star from King of Queens, Beyonce and Gwyneth...

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] nte1igentwon 10 years ago

Your original statement about present day Hollywood being filled with lone wolves is still absolutely wrong. Let's add Lucas Haas to the Leo & Toby equation. This is telling since he hasn't had the same kind of success.

There's also a lot of overlap between the "duos" I pointed out. Adam Sandler and his crew overlaps with Rock. Have you ever watched Seinfeld's show about driving and getting coffee? There are diverse guests on it. They're not just there for the sake of the show, as they tell many tales where they both were present outside of the media.

Dinner for Five is another example. The before mentioned duo of Jon and Vince are joined by Peter Billingsley of A Christmas Story fame among others.

Brad, George, Ben, Matt, & Leo were all connected in that illegal poker ring. I doubt they would be hanging out like that if there wasn't a sort of comraderie between them. To say that there isn't the same Old Hollywood connections is just extremely naive as Hollywood is all about connections and friendships.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] nte1igentwon 10 years ago

I've thoroughly addressed your original point. I've given examples of A-list movie actors doing TV and stage work. There are even Oscar winners in that category. Let's add John Malkovich and Christopher Walken to the list of actors doing TV. As far as American celebs being one dimensional, the term triple threat was originated in the US.

Les Miz, Dream Girls, Nashville, the Step Up films are some more examples of actors expressing their singing/dancing talents. Hell, Eddie Murphy should've won a Oscar for Dream Girls. He also had a no. 1 hit singing in the 80's.

[–] michaelfreed924 10 years ago

"America is a militaristic society in the wake of WWII. A significant portion of our youth serve. In Japan, military service is rare as they only have a defense force. "

Percentage of citizens in active military service:
United States: 4.4%
Japan: 1.9%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel

And while Japan's military is not particularly large, it is EXTREMELY modern and well trained - particularly the navy. There's a reason why North Korea doesn't mess with Japan.

[–] IamTheCheese2 11 years ago

Yeah, I've never seen any anime that has a good grasp on military culture or chain of command. To be fair though, Hollywood also uses the "I don't have to follow orders because I'm the protagonist" trope.

As for the constant crying and shouting; I agree. Even the manga, which has its fair share of exaggerated melodrama, is a lot more toned down than the anime. I get the feeling that Japan might be a somewhat repressed society in terms of displaying emotion, so that might be why they have trouble portraying characters that display a realistic degree of outward emotion. That said, there are lots of good animes that don't have this constant whining and posturing, so it could just be a matter of lazy writing.

[–] hsbasif 11 years ago

Yes, it was extremely annoying, every order was followed by a protracted emotional debate on how people feel about it, good memories of my angsty teenage days when I didn't understand why hierarchies existed. But in my late 20's now, I'm too old for these tropes.

I'm thinking that this anime was purely and solely targeting the 14 year old demographic, as every character, regardless of their own age, seems to have the same angst ridden, emotionally confused reactions pubescent kids have to the complexities of the world.

Which is disappointing because I like the world they've built and the aesthetics of the titans, which I'm guessing was influenced by Goya's Saturn Devouring His Son

[–] karsultimate 11 years ago

You could be talking about the world in general there, or maybe you do have some of that experience.

[–] cian_jm 10 years ago

every character, regardless of their own age, seems to have the same angst ridden, emotionally confused reactions pubescent kids have

I really can't see your definition of "angst" here. Are you really complaining because characters are unhappy and emotionally distraught in a world where everyone lives in constant fear of being eaten alive (with many friends and family dying throughout the series) and where the people in power are doing nothing to stop it?

[–] hsbasif 10 years ago

No, I'm complaining that everybody seems to have the same manner of expressing their emotionally disturbed state, angst. Regardless of their personality, whether they're old or young, civilian or military, the latter is especially poor form. The show goes to great lengths describing the technology and tactics being used to combat the brutes, there are detailed diagrams in the advertisement breaks, but this sophistication is absent from the characters themselves.

Obviously they don't write shows for me, they write them for their target audience, which is by now much younger than I am (and has always been Japanese, which I'm not). But I was really developing an interest in the lore and tactics and tech that kept being sidelined by the angst and melodrama. I think they could have restricted that to the protagonist only, the target audience would still be happy and so would I.

I don't understand why they all had to take turns having emotional breakdowns. Their lives are cruel, the point was abundantly made in the first few episodes, it was then time to build momentum for the overarching story.

[–] raven1066 11 years ago

One of the great weakness of the show. SO frustrating, because the show could be so much better.

"A true archer doesn't even need a bow or an arrow."

[–] cian_jm 10 years ago

Well for one thing, I don't think "everyone seems to be a lone wolf". The characters are typically working together as a team and listen to orders from whoever is in charge. The show doesn't give us a strict hierarchy and chain of command and a lot of the episodes have unexpected events that make plans go awry. Aside from the fact that the Survey Corps tend to be a bit of a rogue group in general and don't care for listening to the Military Police, when does this happen?

Also, the army in this is relatively young. Up until the events of the first episode, they were extremely lax. The Garrison was lazy and incompetent because nobody feared a titan attack (the Police are still this way at the end of the season). The Survey Corps was relatively small and ineffective and even then it's a sucicidal job, recruiting people is a textbook Catch 22 situation.

As for crying...well the situation in the show is pretty consistently bleak. Important characters die and doom is regularly imminent. What do you expect? It's like complaining that the characters in the Walking Dead are always grumpy.

[–] Scribblenaut 10 years ago

Yeah, AoT is pretty bad with the cliches (the first scene where they hand the mother her son's arm and they start yelling at each other almost made me turn it off), and the creator seems to make up things as he goes along (there's a new "super duper awesome head of the military" introduced every time they need a useless bureaucrat to make fun of or a new unstoppable terminator). But this is to be expected. It is shonen, after all.