I figured it would be good to have one thread for general episode-to-episode discussion. It looks like we're only going to have a small handful of people dropping in this season, so I don't see a need to spread the discussion out over multiple threads.
shareI just finished episode 2.
It's going to be interesting to see how Donna decides to deal with Comet, now knowing that her daughter is working on it. She was a bitch to steal the idea from Gordon in the first place, so this is a going to be a pivotal decision for her.
I'm almost finished with it. Donna looks great, but wow, has she ever turned into a biyotch. She must find out about Haley's project in the last half of the episode, but on't worry, I don't mind being spoiled.
shareDonna has definitely taken a step down on the likability scale. It's as if her experiences in marriage combined with her success made her feel like she needs to really take on the "liberated woman who doesn't take shit from anyone" persona.
I'll be curious to hear how you feel about the rest of the episode.
What did you think of the premiere?
Yes, a very sharp step down. At least two steps' worth.
I liked the rest of the episode and now am very curious to see how she handles the situation with Haley's project. Are we being set up for her to become even more unlikeable, perhaps so much there's no coming back from it? She told Gordon she couldn't stop the Rover project at this point, even if she wanted to. But she's nothing if not resourceful. The big question is, does she want to?
I also liked the premiere. I read on the other thread people were disappointed in it, expecting a lot of plot and feeling it was too drawn out. I didn't feel that way, but then I was so happy to finally see my favourite characters again, I may have been more forgiving.
I felt like it was kind of bullshit that she stole Gordon and Co.'s idea in the first place, but at the same time I was not surprised. Gordon still thinks that she is someone he can trust even if they're not the best of friends these days; Donna just sees Gordon as an acquaintance at this point and her only real concern is being successful in business.
But Haley is, or at least should be, a different ballgame. That's her daughter. So it really is going to be interesting to see what direction she goes in in ep 4.
Regarding the premiere, you'll have to throw me in with the guys who were a little disappointed. I really need to watch it again, because I was a bit intoxicated and don't remember it especially well, but my recollection is that it was basically two hours of Joe and Cameron talking on the phone.
Like you say though, it's just good to see everyone again. It really is sad that this is the end, though considering the ratings I NEVER expected us to get four seasons. So I have to be thankful that the show made it this far.
HACF has been a very special experience.
I did too, but then I wasn't exactly happy with Joe for stealing Gordon's idea, either.
In some ways I think Gordon's still reaping what he sowed way back in S1, when Donna spent virtually all her time either supporting him or pulling his butt out of the fire. He gave her no credit, either, which had to have stung. But, he did come to his senses in S2 and did a turnaround, so on the other hand I think he's paid up.
Yes, Donna's become cutthroat, and now virtually all her focus is on succeeding in business, at all costs. I kind of hated her for saying her company should buy out Gordon & Co. She was right it's far more practical than the other way around, but god, that was unnecessary and condescending. She's become every bit as myopic about her company succeeding as Gordon ever was about his misery, and later building The Giant. But Gordon has never been cutthroat.
She sees him as the father of her kids, but I'll grant you, no more than that. She doesn't even see him as a potential competitor.
Ha! Well, it was more than two hours of Joe and Cameron talking on the phone, although a lot of Part II was that. I liked their phone conversation, and it seemed so perfect for them. They'd reconnected before via modem, and again now, it couldn't be face to face, but through wires.
I'm going to call it now that Cameron's going to do the same thing those Buddhist priests she was so impressed with did, tearing down the metaphorical temple of her life (throwing away all the boxes) and rebuilding it all over again, in one way or another. She's already done it before. As has Joe.
Throwing away those boxes was *such* a Joe move, and I mean the earlier seasons Joe, not current Joe. I know, he's what, 15 years older and has had more time to grow up than she. While they both may still be trains full of dynamite, Joe has a lot less dynamite in his train than Cameron.
It is sad, but I'm trying to view it the same way. Each season we thought it'd probably be the end.
Gordon was obsessed with the Giant, no doubt. And then became obsessed with his new project with Joe. There was even the moment in, I think it may have been the very first episode, where he just flat out said that family life wasn't enough for him. He needed to do something great with technology.
I never really blamed him for that. Some people are just driven to do certain things. I don't think obsession is something anyone chooses. More, it chooses YOU.
But what I really blamed Gordon for was the infidelity. That's not cool, at all. If you're not happy in the marriage, get out of the marriage. Don't cheat. But I think by now he has long since atoned for that.
Interesting thoughts on Joe and Cameron. I have to say, I am glad that Tom is out of the picture, though again, I hate that it came through a moment of infidelity.
For whatever reason, Tom just never sat well with me. He always seemed kind of douchey, though in reality, I can't really name much in the way of specifics that actually WAS douchey. I dunno. Maybe he just has one of those faces. . .
In any case, I'm glad he's gone. Joe and Cam together has always been fireworks anyway.
Yes, he did say that. I understand that, though. Family is and should be very important, but it can't be everything. Not to anyone, except the few for which is is enough.
If you don't blame Gordon for that, which I agree with, you can't blame Donna for being equally obsessed with being a success in business either. They are both driven people, just in somewhat different ways. Actually, *all* the characters on this show are very driven, come to think of it.
Honestly, I didn't especially blame Gordon for the infidelity either. Or Donna for her flirtation with it. Obviously it's never a good choice, and is always very painful for the other party. It's hard to repair a marriage or relationship after that. But neither of them went looking for it, and they both felt so isolated at the time, I can understand why it happened, and forgive them.
I'm one of the very few who liked Tom. Most people found him boring, but I didn't. He was smart, talented, and brave enough to be vulnerable. Maybe it was his face, and I think I kind of understand that. But, Cameron and Joe have always been an interesting pairing -- for better and for worse.
I would say the difference between Gordon's drive and Donna's, while they're very similar, is that Donna seems like she might be willing to do some underhanded shit (like stealing the indexing idea when Gordon mentioned it to her in good faith) to succeed. I never got that vibe from Gordon; instead of he just needed his family to give him some room to pursue his projects.
As for Tom, I think I did find him a bit boring, but I also found him a bit . . . I dunno. Arrogant? Condescending? Like a frat boy who tends to look down on those around him, unless you're one of the select few that he actually likes (like Cameron). Maybe it was just a vibe.
Yes, that's what I meant when I said Donna has become cutthroat, but Gordon never has.
Now that I think of it, Donna's become like Joe! Who'd have ever thought that would happen, way back in S1 & 2?
Well, it was more than that with Gordon. He really checked out of his family -- both his kids and wife -- and he was making very rash decisions, without considering how they'd impact them, or even talking about them with Donna. Don't you remember how he was behaving in the first few episodes of the first season? He could barely hand Donna the salt when she was cooking, couldn't handle fixing the kid's speak and spell toy. Totally checked out.
Tom was arrogant to begin with. Remember when he, Cameron, and Donna first met, and why they met? Then they changed his character, a lot.