force healing...... that is where they went too far - Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (2019) Discussion

[–] Volley (3433) 5 years ago

Yeah imagine Anakin force healing his mom back on Tatooine, and preventing a lot of "the power to save Padme" seduction of the dark side which happened afterwards.

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[–] tom8 (3119) 5 years ago

right...... why didn't he?

is it only rey and baby yoda that can force heal?

who makes the rules here, who can what and when.

they made rey too powerful imo

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[–] janelsenor (2044) 5 years ago

The movie makes it pretty clear it's a rare ability. Obviously, the Jedi of the prequel/OT era didn't have it.

This is a non-issue.

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

of course it would be Rey that gets blessed with an extremely rare force ability (in combination with her spontaneously acquiring force powers such as mind trick and force lightning whenever the plot calls for it) that has not been seen or even discussed among ACTUALLY trained jedi for a thousand years.

The fact you think this is a non-issue that one character gets all the abilities, all the focus of the story, and is constantly shown to be powerful, noble and damn near perfect (and awesome) speaks some volume to your ability to interpret a well written character.

I don't mean to be insulting, I really want to discuss this issue with this character; but come on you really don't see an issue with the same character across 3 movies just acquiring powers and abilities without any set up or context, she just learn powers because "she is just awesome"? you don't see that as an issue?

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[–] janelsenor (2044) 5 years ago

She's an anomaly. It's the whole point of her character.

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

why her? Why does the story give her such special treatment? Why is she such an anomaly?

I thought the whole point of her character was finding her place in the story that she even felt she didn't belong in? There is one potentially interesting aspect about her character, the fact she does not fit; but it is never explored. She is just there being awesome and then decides for her self her place in the story is to 'become' a Skywalker, which does not make sense to her character until the last movie and then it is quickly retconned that she has a close relationship with Leia between the films. other than that she has no real attachment to that family name. Based on TFA she should want to be a Solo considering Han was the only one that we as the audience ever see her being close to (albeit rushed but it was there).

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[–] SpikeMike (470) 5 years ago

She read the ancient Jedi texts, which likely held this knowledge. The fall of the Jedi was directly due to them becoming too rigid and establishment, forgoing their true connection of the Force which allowed Palpatine to rise.

At some point the order decided to stop teaching this which resulted in their downfall. If Anakin knew of it he would have never turned.

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

That is an incredibly convenient excuse ('she read the book on it'). That is assuming that the books contained that knowledge, which is never expressed by the movie. from an audience perspective it is contrived with no in film context. Just that on its own is problematic, but could be overlooked for the character if the previous 2 films had not already demonstrated that she is just so awesome, even janelsenor recognizes that the character was "an anomaly". The problem is with her being such a powerful anomaly all her powers, abilities and respect (from other characters) she is given all feel contrived and unearned.

Not only that is makes he a hard to like character. No one like being forced to 'like' something and the Sequel trilogy tries very hard to force you to like the character (or at least force you to observe her awesomeness).

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[–] illnagas (457) 5 years ago

How does that make her an interesting character?

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

It doesn't and isn't supposed be a reason to like the character (i think); but it is supposed to be the excuse for why she is so powerful. I don't think it is a good excuse at all.

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[–] illnagas (457) 5 years ago

I absolutely agree

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[–] furiousstyles (4391) 5 years ago

I actually agree, its completely stupid to come up with this trick , makes a mockery of the force and the other Jedi that used it but didn’t have this ability , I watched empire strikes back yesterday , now that is a Star Wars movie.

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[–] Forky (1739) 5 years ago

"The movie makes it pretty clear it's a rare ability."

LOL!

At what point?

Be specific.

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[–] tom8 (3119) 5 years ago

agree..... and what about kylo, he brought rey back from the dead at the cost of his own life....... what is that power called, is that also force healing, and how could he do that, has he done it before?

then it's not rare....... but we did not see it in the other 8 movies.

so twice in movie 9? why?

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

That is a good point I did not think about; if Rey being "an anomaly" is what leads her to being able to learn it and as SpikeMike argues that she 'learned it from the jedi text'. But than suddenly Kylo can do it, but only at the cost of his own life (guess he just was not as much as 'an anomaly' like Rey)? So which is it, a rare ability that only Rey can do because she is just so powerful and she read about it in the ancient text? Or is it a power any jedi can learn (but of course only Rey is powerful enough to NOT die from it). Or was Kylo able to learn it because it was done on him (he matrix like force downloaded the knowledge from Rey like she learned mind trick from him)?

Man what a hot mess this whole thing was. Just a bunch of contrived nonsense designed all around making Rey look more and more awesome.

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[–] Costumer (1824) 5 years ago

Palpatine specifically mentions that is an ability that has not been seen in thousands of years. It is late in the film and if they were going to introduce this power, and establish that it is very rare, there should have been foreshadowing since Force Awakens.

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

I do not remember Palpatine mentioning it as an ability that has not been seen in thousands of years? I am confused, did he even know about the ability. Both times it was used he was not around to know about it. I might have missed but I don't remember him even hearing about it.

There should have been an actual story set up since Force Awakens, but there wasn't. There was never a plan. It was never going to go anywhere near an actual story with an arc and satisfying answers and conclusions. That is why the trilogy as a whole was a disjointed, jarring mess with almost no story flow or consistency and why each film basically screws over the previous films attempts at story.

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[–] Costumer (1824) 5 years ago

It has been awhile since I've seen it. As I recall she uses it on Kilo in sight of Palpatine.

As I said, it has been some time and I haven't seen it since. I could be mistaken, but I do believe he mentions it.

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

No, I know that did not happen; when Rey used it on Kylo they were on Endor; not even the same planet. Unless Rey used it on him a second time that I don't remember.

I am fairly certain he does not mention it either but I could be wrong on that.

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[–] Costumer (1824) 5 years ago

Searching around I found a reference that Kylo uses it on Rey in front of Palpatine. The reference I found did not say either way if Palpatine said anything about how rare or not healing was.

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[–] gbu (581) 5 years ago

Palpatine mentions this way back in Episode 3 ROTS when hes trying to get Anakin to turn to the darkside, when Anakin tells him that he has dreams of Padme dying, Palpatine tells him that there is a way of saving her that the Sith power/knowledge could save her from dying so presumably this is the power had that passed onto Rey.

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[–] ProgsReturn (2097) 5 years ago

Yet Palatine never uses it on Annakin, and as Darth Vader he has to rely on a respirator to stay alive.

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

Yes but he also admits later in the movie he does not know how to do it. His Quote:

"To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together I know we can discover the secret"

Well, they found the secret. It is simple, the secret is: BE REY; then you can do literally anything at the plots convenience. No power is beyond her. Of course it would be nice if we are given an actual reason for why she is such an anomaly.

Now that you bring it up; she is Palpatine's granddaughter, the excuse for why she is so powerful is because of this and yet she just is able to spontaneously develop force powers that EVEN PALPATINE could not figure out?

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[–] ProgsReturn (2097) 5 years ago

Yoda didn't use force heal on Obi-wan and Annakin after they were defeated by Dooku. Just saying.

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[–] gbu (581) 5 years ago

Palpatine mentions this way back in Episode 3 ROTS when hes trying to get Anakin to turn to the darkside, when Anakin tells him that he has dreams of Padme dying, Palpatine tells him that there is a way of saving her that the Sith power/knowledge could save her from dying so presumably this is the power had that passed onto Rey.

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

Since you posted the same thing twice (like it is some kind of game changer); I'll do the same:

Yes but he also admits later in the movie he does not know how to do it. His Quote:

"To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together I know we can discover the secret"

Well, they found the secret. It is simple, the secret is: BE REY; then you can do literally anything at the plots convenience. No power is beyond her. Of course it would be nice if we are given an actual reason for why she is such an anomaly.

Now that you bring it up; she is Palpatine's granddaughter, the excuse for why she is so powerful is because of this and yet she just is able to spontaneously develop force powers that EVEN PALPATINE could not figure out?

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[–] gbu (581) 5 years ago

No not a game changer I posted it twice as was 2 different posts and wasn't sure if you get to read only the ones you've posted to.
He couldn't do it alone then but never said what powers or side her grandmother was from, could of been from darkside or most likely the good side and this combination could well have helped develop Reys powers more quickly and strongly.

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

Sorry if I was a bit heavy handed on that, I thought you just ignored my response to you from the other post and just kept reposting the same thing.

So Palpatine himself could not do that power alone (and never actual does it even with Vader) but Rey just teaches herself how to do it? Don't you see how problematical this is? Why does she just get to be so powerful and competent. She is God like in Terms of her mastery and level of force, She far exceeds Palpatine, Vader, and even Yoda. And all of it was unearned, it is like the films just gave it to her. She didn't have to suffer and lose and overcome. Force Heal was just another example of this, just another amazing god like force power that only Rey can just learn. And to make it even more frustrating they have Kylo do it to her later but he dies, Why? Well as far as I can tell it is because he is just not as 'awesome' as Rey. This is why I truly despise her character, they were trying to force the audience to sit and be awed by her 'awesomeness' and I just wasn't buying it, because she did not earn her power and achievements.

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[–] gbu (581) 5 years ago

No i get what you are saying that its so implausible and dismisses the learnings from past Jedi and Sith veterans i was just throwing out some thoughts as to why it may of been the case due to her heritage, no one really knows the answer to these things but makes for interesting debate.

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

I would feel you more on that idea; that it makes for interesting debate, if they had presented it in a mysterious or interesting or compelling way (that didn't completely and utterly undermine the OT story, lore and characters). But the sad truth is, there is no mystery; there is nothing to really debate about even. Because of how incompetent the story telling was, and the fact there was no real plan, it means that the there are no, never was and never be any answers to the why and how things were happening.

The films were just one action set piece to the next with almost no story and even less world building (more like world breaking).

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

I think they went too far in TFA when Rey spontaneously acquired force powers such as force pull, mind trick, etc whenever the plot called for it. By the time they got to TROS and she can just acquire a previously unheard of, completely plot breaking power was just par the course.

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[–] jerryrip (57) 5 years ago

People who keep referring to Rey as a "Mary Sue" are missing the whole point of the Star Wars mythology. Rey's quick acquiring of force powers is no more amazing than Luke's, when he becomes a full Jedi capable of many force and mind powers after like 3 years of training. People quickly forget that any person who is descended from force-sensitive or -capable parents (or grandparents in Rey's case) are able to attain their powers over a shorter period of time, than say, Annakin (who obtains his through his miracle birth). And Rey is descended from the most powerful of all the Jedi or Sith, the Emperor. So why is that so hard to fathom?

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[–] ProgsReturn (2097) 5 years ago

"Rey's quick acquiring of force powers is no more amazing than Luke's, when he becomes a full Jedi capable of many force and mind powers after like 3 years of training."
The key word here is 'training'. All the training Luke went through, the mistakes he made even losing his hand in the process is undermined by Ray's miraculous aqusition of force abilities, not even getting a smudge on her outfit in the process.

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

Exactly, we can argue about how much training is required to be able to use the force effectively; but one thing the franchise absolutely dictated was that at least SOME training is required. Force users, no matter their heightened potential, could not just spontaneously use active force powers. Luke not only had to train but failed almost everything he attempted, and suffered real consequences for those failures. Rey went through the films just pulling force powers out of her hat when ever she needed them and made it through the entire trilogy without one lose or any real consequences. It was like the plot was protecting her and making her 'oh just so special' while doing it.

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[–] janelsenor (2044) 5 years ago

Yes. It was the point of her character. She was an anomaly who grew strong in the Force without training.

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[–] ProgsReturn (2097) 5 years ago

Making her the most boring character in the franchise.

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

So since you copy and pasted the same argument above and offered no response or context for your argument; I'll do the same:

why her? Why does the story give her such special treatment? Why is she such an anomaly?

I thought the whole point of her character was finding her place in the story that she even felt she didn't belong in? There is one potentially interesting aspect about her character, the fact she does not fit; but it is never explored. She is just there being awesome and then decides for her self her place in the story is to 'become' a Skywalker, which does not make sense to her character until the last movie and then it is quickly retconned that she has a close relationship with Leia between the films. other than that she has no real attachment to that family name. Based on TFA she should want to be a Solo considering Han was the only one that we as the audience ever see her being close to (albeit rushed but it was there).

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[–] ProgsReturn (2097) 5 years ago

Not to mention the ability to pilot any ship she sits in along with having exceptional knowledge of how to repair it. Literally speaking, she could have used the Falcon to fly away from Jakuu anytime she wanted to, but didn't.

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

she was waiting for the plot to happen. I rather the plot was waiting for her to be ready. So much of these films story was all centered and bent around Rey; even if she wasn't an Mary Sue (which she is) she would still be an incredibly frustrating character just for that fact alone.

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[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

This so so unbelievable condescending; I am going to break it down sentence by sentence:

"are missing the whole point of the Star Wars mythology"

You mean the mythology that stated specifically training was required to develop a force potential's ability to use powers? That mythology that was ignored for Rey?

"Rey's quick acquiring of force powers is no more amazing than Luke's"

What force powers does Luke use on his first film; even by the end of his second film he is not able to do that much and that is AFTER at least SOME training (and years in between ANH and ESB). Where was Rey's time to develop her powers (even if it was going to be self taught)?

"he becomes a full Jedi capable of many force and mind powers after like 3 years of training."

I wish I could highlight here: "3 YEARS OF TRAINING". Exactly Luke trains for years before being able to do anything remarkable with the force, Rey does it immediately with no mentor, teacher or training. She pulls force powers out of her butt.

"People quickly forget that any person who is descended from force-sensitive or -capable parents"

Where the hell is this stated in the Star Wars Mythology? And just because your parents are force powerful doesn't mean their children come out able to use force powers. Sure their potential is higher but that does not mean they can just spontaneously develop powers without training for them.

"Annakin (who obtains his through his miracle birth)."

And yet even he can't use force pull until he trains for literally years. Rey does it a few hours after learning the Jedi aren't a myth.

"So why is that so hard to fathom?"

Maybe because we expecting story continuity and a sequel that doesn't undermine the lore of it's predecessors, WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO FATHOM?

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[–] AmeriGirl26 (14488) 5 years ago

It's called watching a multi-million-dollar shitty fanfic, written and produced by people who didn't give a damn about Star Wars lore, and just wanted to get rich. They could have cared less about keeping up continuity in this F-ing trilogy.

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[–] L1 (1316) 5 years ago

I think its really cool.

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[–] tom8 (3119) 5 years ago

why

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[–] L1 (1316) 5 years ago

I was sold on this already.

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