she is on par with Anakin and Luke before let's drop this title she powerful cuz she is an Ex-Palpatine you only Label her cuz she is a woman i don't see you doing that Wonder Woman and Alita there Mary Sues as well you sexist Pigs
shareThank you!!! I think that if you gender-swapped Luke and Rey (who both could be considered Mary Sues) the outcome would be different. Remember that Luke was piloting X Wings after like 2 hours of training; he managed to give Darth Vader a good lightsaber fight after only like a day of training with Yoda. He defeated Darth Vader after about 3 years of training. What many people are missing is that if you are descended from force-sensitive or force-capable people you are far more likely to acquire Jedi or Sith powers faster. On the other hand, Annakin had to start from a youth because he was created through George Lucas' midichlorians.
Rey doiesn't have to be a hard drinker like James Bond or a cad and scoundrel like Han Solo to be a relatable character. She's an innocent. She is likable to those around her because she is unassuming and humble. She's not prancing around bragging about her powers, she's just trying to make it through life scavenging for food. Her trials have already happened for the most part; she was left on a barren desert planet as a child in the care of a scoundrel. She's on a quest to find her lineage. What's so privileged about that life?
She's basically forced to quickly acquire and use any power that she can get, since she's being hunted by the likes of Kylo Ren. If there's anything responsible for her label of a "Mary Sue", it's not just some arbitrary feminist writing, it's the fact that if she doesn't use any kind of force power she can get she's toast. And if I remember, there's a hell of a lot of pain and suffering she goes though along the way. She's constantly hounded and tortured by Ren in TFA and trained hard by Luke in TLJ. There was no quick and easy path for her.
"Remember that Luke was piloting X Wings after like 2 hours of training"
He trained to be a pilot for many years before the movie began, it is established through the dialogue that he is a remarkably good pilot. AND when he pilots the X wing for the first time he nearly crashes 2 times and is nearly shot down 3 times needing to be saved by others. If you actually pay attention Luke's performance at the Death Star battle was below mediocre. But because of good timing and some good saves from his friends he was able to get the 1 shot off. Remind me how Rey performed her first time flying the falcon?
"he managed to give Darth Vader a good lightsaber fight after only like a day of training with Yoda.
Oh come on, are you trolling? This is a joke right; Vader was clearly toying with Luke and could have defeated him at will but wanted to see what he can do. You know this is the case because the moment Vader gets mad Luke loses his arm 1 second later.
"He defeated Darth Vader after about 3 years of training"
Exactly, I'll bold the important part for you "3 YEARS OF TRAINING". How many years, days or even hours of training did Rey get before being able to use force pull, mind trick and rather easily beat Darth Emo; all in her first outing?
It is ridiculous to suggest that they are comparable. If you think about every comparison Luke and Rey are light years apart in terms of ability and competence. For example, Luke is jumped by Tusken Raiders and gets completely taken out. Rey gets jumped by Unkar's men and easily defeats them. If you size them up at every example like this it paints a clear picture. Rey is a Mary Sue, Luke is not even close.
"She's an innocent. She is likable to those around her because she is unassuming and humble."
These qualities do not match her background as a loner scavenger. And the problem is she it TOO likable; this is another characteristic of a Mary Sue Character. She gets liked by other too quickly it feels unearned.
Hear, hear!, and well said!
I might quibble about Rey being able to knock the socks off of Unkar's men. She lived a rougher life than Luke had at that point, so her ability to do that is well within understandable. HOWEVER, because of her background, this makes your later point - about her innocence, humility, and unassuming nature not matching her backstory - an even stronger point.
While I think that we are supposed to think that her life was rougher; that is not actually what is shown. Everything about the environment that we see suggest that it is a less hostile environment than Tatooine. They seem to have a very stable system going. You can say she is more isolated and not nurtured and that is rougher than Luke's household with parental figures; but the actual environment seems less hostile. They failed to actually show it being a hostile place in which Rey would have to be a competent fighter.
But a case can be made that there was enough to suggest it was hostile and her combat prowess was within reason (I don't agree but I can see a case for it). But what you can't make a case on is how Rey is tough as nails, isolated and at the same time innocent, humble and unassuming (and at the same time highly competent and containing skills beyond her background). She is far too naive to have been a loner scavenger. But she was shown to be naive because naivety in a character is a cheap manipulative tactic to get your audience to have sympathy for the character.
That is one of the frustrating things about her character, she was clearly designed by a committee to optimize a look of being as impressive as possible while making her cookie cutter likable at the same time. It was all so plan to see it made it difficult to enjoy anything the character was involved in; and because they also wanted to make her the most important character she was in like literally almost every scene; even most of the time when she was not on screen the conversation was about her. Gods was it frustrating.
You're dead-on: she can't be both. Naive and hardened by the world are mutually-exclusive.
The "committee vibe" was one of the things that bugged me most about The Force Awakens. Overall, I had fun watching it - I still think it's a reasonably fun action-adventure film, but the feeling that it was made in a test tube drags it down a lot. It was fun, but never recaptured the original's magic. Then again, have any of them?
I don't think Jakku is tougher, I think Rey's life is depicted as tougher. Or, it's supposed to be. Because she's so innocent, it creates... is "cognitive dissonance" the term I'm looking for? - between her background and her personality.
So, I'm arguing that Luke seems to be in the Tatooine equivalent of a middle class suburban life. He's hangin' at the Toshe station, he's goofing off in his landspeeder. It seemed to me like Luke and Biggs were not dissimilar from Richard Dreyfus and Ron Howard in American Graffiti. So, while Tatooine has hellholes like Mos Eisley, Luke doesn't really go there. Rey was orphaned and raised in the dog-eat-dog trader camp. Civilization seems miles away. She's mostly on her own. So, that's what I meant.
It's a quibble, though, because of her character inconsistencies which you have aptly detailed.
Thanks; and that is also a nice way to put it 'naive and hardened by the world are definitely mutual-exclusive traits.
Since the OT, no none have really captured the magic; but I get the since the OT was not trying to recreate the magic but move on to something else that was related. TFA felt it was trying to recreate the same exact magic and it ended feeling more like trying to reanimate a corpse, very inauthentic feel.
Yes there is a problem with the contract between the background we are told she is supposed to have experienced and the posh well spoken (innocent, niave, humble, and unassuming) person she is. But I think we have to define what we mean by 'tougher'. Rey definitely was less nurtured and more isolated; but from her intro scene there is a sense of familiarity and almost tranquility about the routine she and the others are under. We get no sense of hostility between the players. All in all, there is no sense of violence or a need for someone to be a fighter. Tatooine you get a sense that Luke has to be able to handle himself because even though he was from a middle class family if he was ever out on his own he might be killed. The trading camp is just not depicted as dog-eat-dog or 'kill or be killed'; more like top down micro-managed. I do agree that Rey had a life where she was self taught and isolated; but that does not mean it was harder or 'tougher'. Farm life is by no means easy work.
Like you said it is a light quibble, not a big deal compared to the wild inconsistency of the character; that is the real problem.
"I might quibble about Rey being able to knock the socks off of Unkar's men."
one more point I just thought of sort of unrelated to the plausibility of Rey's fight skill and harshness of her environment conversation we were having. The actual imagery of Rey kicking the crap out of Unkar's men I think I have a problem with. At this point in the film it is right around the same time that Luke gets taken out by the Sand People. it seems that the scene was designed to show off Rey. Just like everything else in the film it seemed like every situation was designed and hand picked for her to look awesome or sympathetic. It just feels so phony and inorganic. I hated it
Playing the gender card is cowardly. Learn some new material
- Luke was already an established pilot
- He got his ass handed to him the first time he saw Vader and if you think he only had 2 hours of training then you are a disingenuous little shit
- Luke defeated Vader by giving into his hate, that was the point of ROTJ, Luke was teetering on the light and the dark side
- Even if you are descended from a force sensitive person you still have to put in some actual effort and training, Luke did, Rey did not
Rey is the definition of a Mary Sue Princess.
Humble. you called Rey humble. I think you were watching a different movie by mistake.
shareLOL thanks for the laugh joogle, Rey is now more of a Mary Sue than she ever was. She gets Luke's lightsaber, ship and last name and didn't work for any of them. She's an entitled Princess.
shareShe is the Mary Suest of all the Sues in this movie. She literally gets everything with no effort.
share