MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (2019) Discussion > Is the New Trilogy proving (unwittingly)...

Is the New Trilogy proving (unwittingly) that the First Order is a much better system? Discuss.

posted 5 years ago by kuku (3510)
8 replies | jump to latest

Check this image.
https://am23.akamaized.net/tms/cnt/uploads/2019/08/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-star-destroyers.jpg

Now, let's remember that the Empire lost the war in the original trilogy. What remained of the Empire (the First Order) was cornered and probably isolated. Even though, they have been able to develop their industrial capacity to the point when they're able to build a much bigger army than the New Republic.

Let's remember that the New Republic have abundant resources and a huge territory at their disposal... and in spite of it, they haven't been able to build any decent army.

The war started because the First Order rejected the Authority of the New Republic. Let's think about that: the New Republic didn't accept that the First Order could be independent. They should belong to the New Republic, under the rules of the New Republic. The rejection led to a cold war, no 'brexit' allowed. This matters. It was the New Republic the ones that began hostilities.

Before the events in the New Trilogy, we have:

■ 1. The First Order, isolated in a small territory, with a very rule-oriented and xenophobic society, ruled by an Emperor, and extremely productive when it comes to technology, science, and probably arts.

If we were talking about Earth, we could call it 'Japan'.

■ 2. The New Republic, having abundant resources and a huge territory at their disposal, (apparently) democratic and diverse, and unable to develop any industrial capacity. Many solar systems are probably third world. Corruption is widespread. Science and technology are stuck. Most of art is probably woke holographic movies.

If we were talking about Earth, we could call it 'Africa'.

The 'New Republic', I mean, 'Africa', tells 'Japan' that they must accept their authority and rules, losing their sovereignty. Probably that will involve opening the 'First Order' boundaries, I mean, 'Japan' boundaries to massive immigration from 'Africa'. 'Japan' refuses, which leads to a cold war and eventually to an open war, where 'Africa' can't even match the power of that small territory.

Discuss.

[–] AckbarsRevenge (3800) 5 years ago

There's nothing to discuss. Jar Jar pulled this turd of a story right out of his

[–] TexasJack (12516) 5 years ago

I know nothing about the origins or history of the First Order because the movies skipped all that stuff.

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

According to the Star Wars wiki: The First Order (FO), also known as the Order, was a military dictatorship established by Imperial officers, nobles, and technologists during the New Republic Era. . Emerging from the collapse of the Galactic Empire, the First Order inherited the ideology of its predecessor and was dominated by humans under an ethnocentric xenophobic regime. It was therefore intent on bringing the galaxy under the absolute rule of one government led by Supreme Leader Snoke.

[–] Sandman81 (1510) 5 years ago

Two holes in your story:

1) The First Order built up its ranks by kidnapping young children, and brainwashing them into their way of thinking, and making them faces storm troopers in their army.

2) The First Order was trying to destroy the New Republic and conquer the galaxy. They weren't just sitting around in their own little corner of the galaxy, when the big mean Republic tried to force their rules upon them. They were the aggressors. Kind of like when the Japanese Empire tried to conquer all of East Asia thru brutal force, and when the U.S. tried to stop them with an oil embargo, they tried to crush our ability to stop them.

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

The First Order built up its ranks by kidnapping young children, and brainwashing them into their way of thinking, and making them faces storm troopers in their army.

This is not a credible way to build an army. There's historical cases (the Ottomans used to do that, for example), but it was intended to humiliate and demoralize the enemy, being a very small percentage of the main army.

Think that the movie is told from the perspective of the New Republic, and some of the facts look distorted, for example: general Hux being a buffoon, which is not credible and looks more like propaganda in wartime movies, or Rey being able to learn the Force in 5 minutes, which is not credible (neither) and probably serves to the intention of turning her into some kind of Jedi Messiah (it's likely that Jedis have become the main religious power in the New Republic, and the portray of Rey as some kind of mythological 'saint-warrior' was intended to please them).

In a nutshell: we don't know how much of that statement is true, perhaps there were some isolated cases, but it's likely that it's just propaganda from the New Republic to demonize the First Order. Not to say it seems both sides played that game: Luke and Leia were actually kidnapped children who were brainwashed to fight against their father.

The First Order was trying to destroy the New Republic and conquer the galaxy. They weren't just sitting around in their own little corner of the galaxy, when the big mean Republic tried to force their rules upon them.

According to the Star Wars wiki "Rejecting the authority of the New Republic that rose to power through rebellion [...] After years of testing the Republic's resolve through the cold war, the First Order deemed the time ripe to unveil the full might of its technological war machine, resulting in a new galactic war".

You don't "reject the authority" unless you're instructed. We don't know what would have happened if the New Republic would have accepted the independence of the First Order territory.

[–] FilmBuff (7355) 5 years ago

I think you ought to read a bit about Africa before making that comparison.

There really isn't a historical precedent for what Lucas set up at the end of Return of the Jedi. The Empire was vast, and their armies seemingly controlled the known universe. They were attacked by a tiny group of rebels whose numbers were in the hundreds, perhaps at most thousands The Empire's chief battle station was destroyed, as was the majority of their high command, but what did the next day look like? How realistic was it that a handful of rebels would really be able to turn around and rule the galaxy? It makes far more sense that from the ashes of the Empire rose the First Order.

If I had to think of a real word example, the closest that comes to mind is Pearl Harbor. Japan, however, was much, much larger and better armed and organized than the Rebels, so it would be more like if Vatican City somehow pulled off the attack. Sure, the bulk of the American fleet was gone, and let's even imagine that FDR was killed in the attack, but how realistic would it be to imagine that the following day that Pope Pius XII would run the planet?

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

They were attacked by a tiny group of rebels whose numbers were in the hundreds, perhaps at most thousands The Empire's chief battle station was destroyed, as was the majority of their high command, but what did the next day look like?

Actually, it wasn't some "hundres of rebels" but a full army, According to the Star Wars wiki: "The Alliance Fleet, also known as the Rebel Alliance Navy, the Rebel Navy, the Alliance Navy, or simply the Rebel fleet, was the military naval force of the Alliance to Restore the Republic [...] Following the Battle of Endor and the formation of the New Republic, the Alliance Fleet transitioned into the New Republic Defense Fleet.".

And we know what the next day looked like: the New Republic controlled most of the Empire's territory. According to the wiki, again "Rejecting the authority of the New Republic that rose to power through rebellion [...] ". That sentence doesn't make sense unless the New Republic controlled a vastly superior territory. The same way it doesn't make sense saying that China 'rejected the authority of Taiwan', what makes sense is to say that Taiwan rejected the authority of China.

[–] AdamS (336) 5 years ago

You've really thought about this...

The Empire was huge... 1 fleet at Endor… 1 legion on the moon...

They had other fleets, many other legions to form a new order out of