I think Disney's goal is to allow ANYONE to use the Force - Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

BUMP

Seriously? No-one thinks that Disney wants to turn Star Wars into a SUPERHERO FRANCHISE?

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 7 years ago

The entire goal of the Force was that it could appear anywhere, in anyone. That came from Lucas, not Disney.

That's why Jedi like Qui-Gon were always on the lookout for a potential Force user. If it was solely through blood, then there would be no need to search.

The Skywalker "Force bloodline" is supposed to be an example of an exception. The fact that it originated with Anakin, who was created by the Force, explains why that bloodline is an exception.

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[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Only rey can use the force.

It was rey who pulled Leia to the ship AND it was rey who pulled the broom to the kids hand at the end.

SHE is the best.

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[–] legnadibrom (6248) 7 years ago

the boy & the broom at the end is a myth, it was merely a gust of wind that made the broomstick approach the boy's hand with a tender touch

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[–] TandyMan (11120) 7 years ago

My take on Star Wars back in the day, before the prequels or the EU ever existed, was that anybody could use the Force with training and discipline. It's like a monk ability. Clearing your mind and becoming one with the universe and all that. Keep at it and you can be a Jedi master too, just like getting a black belt and chopping ice blocks in half with your fists.

They're going about in a very sloppy way, but it seems to me Disney is just resetting the "rules" back to the open concept of the OT.

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[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

I don't believe that for a second. The Jedi Knights were mentioned in the OT, too, and don't forget, the Jedi Council and all that stuff in the Prequels is what Lucas had in mind from the beginning. I'm sure that a power such as Force usage had to be controlled and disciplined, so that's why all the stuff in the Prequels. Alas, the rules were too strict for Anakin and he was offered more "openness" by Palpatine. The strict closure and secrecy is what caused the Jedi Purge, technically in favour of Sith openness.

Maybe if you mean, later on Obi-Wan tried to be more open to Luke about it and eschewing the stuff that came before, then you're right.

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[–] Quint (957) 7 years ago

Yep, that way you could use it better for kids series.

And nope, the force never was in everyone strong enough to use it. Just in a few ones. Thats why the Jedis searched for them. But now disney means "Wanna force? Buy it from us!" :) .

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[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Are you the target political demographic? YOU CAN USE THE FORCE! Says kennedy - it IS female after-all.

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[–] Quint (957) 7 years ago

She .... the force .... is female ;) ?

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[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

My take on it is that the force is just like any other discipline, anyone can learn but it takes a combination of natural ability & hard work to be the best, ideally from a young age. If you take up tennis in your 20s you'll get pretty good but you'll never be winning Wimbledon...

So the OT and the PT didn't contradict each other. But the sequels...? Disney's take on the force? Well aint nobody got time for any of that hard work, training, or discipline shit, the force is now just a cheap excuse to have super powers without even having to bother with the effort of an origin story.

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[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Agreed. Disney Star Wars SUCKS, mostly.

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[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

There will be a Star Wars/Marvel crossover movie in the next ten years. It will be a desperate move to milk the two franchises before they start to become unprofitable.

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[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Disney are milking Star Wars to oblivion, and the scene with Luke LITERALLY MILKING that cow creature is spelling it out to fans. The fans are being taken for mugs and they don't even realise it.

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[–] tom8 (3119) 7 years ago

it's all about equality.... genders must be erased, everyone is the same. it's the Disney and liberal way.....everybody is special, everyone gets a price. everyone can join,

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[–] AP (5288) 7 years ago

While the original movies said the Force was in everyone and everything, it always required training which was why there was an entire Jedi Order and why Obi-Wan and Yoda trained Luke. Even then, it was obvious the Force was stronger in some people than others ("The Force is strong in this one" "The Force is strong in my family" etc). While I don't like the Medichlorian stuff, it still coincides with the idea that some are more in tune with the Force than others as some people are born with higher medi-counts than others. There are Disney apologists who like to pretend none of this happened, though.

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[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Why are people described as being 'force sensitive' if everyone can use the force through training or mary-suing?

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[–] AP (5288) 7 years ago

The same way a person with good genes can train and be a great athlete while a person with bad genes can train and still not be very good at athletics. Meanwhile, a person with good genes but no training would still lose in an athletic competition with someone with both good genes and training.

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[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Agree.

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[–] Sirap (42) 7 years ago

I agree that Disney is turning Star Wars into a superhero franchise. While I hate it, it's hardly surprising given the success of superhero movies. It's hard to blame Disney for delivering what they believe people want to see, blame all the people who can't get enough of stupid superheroes.

The force is within everyone but hardly anyone is forces sensitive. If you're not force sensitive you can't feel or use the force, no matter how hard you try. The force is stronger in some people and it's apparently something that can be inherited. This is rarely the case though, since Jedis aren't supposed to have kids and that's why they search the galaxy for naturally gifted force sensitives. While mastering the force requires hard work and training it appears ridiculous to me if force sensitives can't pick up a trick or two on their own, without any training. Nothing major like Rey but something like moving a broom...

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[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

"I agree that Disney is turning Star Wars into a superhero franchise. While I hate it, it's hardly surprising given the success of superhero movies. It's hard to blame Disney for delivering what they believe people want to see, blame all the people who can't get enough of stupid superheroes."

You know what else is successful besides superhero movies? Starwars movies. Even if you hated the prequels (and I know I do, or did...) they still made a shedload. So lets not make excuses for them, Disney had absolutely no need to dumb the force down or ruin the old characters or marvel it up, they just needed to make a Star Wars movie. Even if they'd phoned it in, played very safe and just delivered the bare basics (ala Rogue One) they could have still made billions without pissing off the majority of their customers.

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 7 years ago

Yeah it's true that previous Star Wars movies were mostly very successful, but that can't last forever. Look at yet another ultra successful franchise, Harry Potter. Thing is... it has ended.

Disney doesn't want another "short-lived franchise" like Harry Potter. Disney wants another Marvel. A seemingly NEVERENDING franchise that keeps on making money FOREVER.

Disney never settles for mediocrity. Disney shoots for the stars!

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[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

Harry Potter is still going... A better example would be James Bond which *has* changed dramatically over the years.

I don't think anybody is saying Star Wars can never change (it's not like they need to keep the hairstyles looking so 70s) it needs to change in the right way and the marvel route was a very bad choice for Disney. For all the 'fun' of Star Wars the universe in the OT was mostly a very serious/dark place where life was cheap and your friends and family are routinely murdered by a fascist dictatorship. By trying to inject the Marvel formula they've killed off a large part of what makes Star Wars Star Wars and I think there's enough Marvel films as it is (20 and counting).

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 7 years ago

The last Harry Potter movie is "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 2" from 2011. Harry Potter is dead.

James Bond is like Batman. The movies span so many years, but they are not in a single franchise. Different producers, different owners. And released too far a few in between. Old James Bond movies are like old Star Wars movies, they were from different studios. Now they are just a legacy, a relic, and don't bring much money today.

MCU is a different beast. The movies are released every year, even twice a year! And every single one brought loads of profits. It's a money printing machine! If you can print money, would you ever stop???

This is what Disney lusts for. In fact, every publishers in the world wish they have a franchise as profitable as Marvel.

Even if they failed miserably (which is a miniscule probability), and Star Wars is FOREVER RUINED, it's still worth the shot. Imagine if they succeed. What in the world is better than having a money printing machine? Having TWO money printing machines, of course!

Disney is greedy like that.

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[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

Harry Potter (not that I care as I never liked it) is still going with the Fantastic Beasts series - think the next one is out next year.

MCU is a different beast and I know full well that Disney lusts after that kind of lucrative return. But the thing is - they've already got it. Taking one of your massively successful IPs and turning it into a clone of your other IPs is understandable (in a way) but very shortsighted. Rather than turning marvel fans onto Star Wars they seem to be pissing off the exceptionally easy to please Star Wars fan base.

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[–] grindovermatter (380) 7 years ago

"exceptionally easy to please Star Wars fan base"

haha what

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[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

They - by and large - liked The Force Awakens. What more proof do you need?

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 7 years ago

Nobody but the hardest core of Harry Potter fans cares about Fantastic Beasts whatever. The studio is basically just scrapping the bottom of the barrel. They could not be more regretful today that they ended the main Harry Potter series.

Anyway, I also think Disney is taking too much departure in Star Wars. They seemed too insistent on killing off ALL the classic characters, and shoehorning the new (same same but different, but still the same) replacement characters.

I don't know. But I don't think it's working quite smoothly. Why they have to do that? They basically tried to alienate their own fans.

Maybe this is just an exercise? An experiment to see the result of it? Because sooner or later they also need to do a similar strategy to MCU.

They would need to replace RDJ Iron Man to new Iron Man (RDJ is getting old and more and more expensive.) Maybe also Thor into new Thor, etc. to freshen things up. And everyone else is eventually need to be replaced with a new version that actually is just the same character as before if they want MCU to stay indefinitely.

What if Star Wars is just their means to experiment how to implement this very important changes? The MCU is too valuable IP to do this extemely risky endeavor directly on. Star Wars is their Guinea Pig.

What do you think?

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[–] Arghhhh (804) 7 years ago

Well it would be very ballsy to experiment with a $4 Billion investment. I think the truth is something like this:

KK has had an amazingly successful career but she's always been in the shadow of Spielberg and Lucas (and those are two large shadows...) so she's taking her chance to make her mark and make Star Wars be hers. This is common with new chief execs - how can they justify their enormous salaries if they just do what the last guy did? So they try to mix things up and often implement change for the sake of it.

Add to the desire to make Star Wars in her own image the need to reap a return on $4Billion and you get some crazy/rushed/unbelievable decisions (like not have an overarching story planned for the trilogy). She's clearly in way over her head: even if you love the new Star Wars the organisation seams to be shambolic, with firings and re-shoots (costing 100 of millions of dollars) common place.

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 7 years ago

That's...
That's not even half as interesting as my theory.

But you're probably more right.

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

Nobody but the hardest core of Harry Potter fans cares about Fantastic Beasts whatever.

Now I have to argue that, because I don't give a shit about Harry Potter, but I saw Fantastic Beasts and loved it. Looking forward to part 2.

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 6 years ago

Okay, I admit it was a hyperbole lol.

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[–] jerryrip (57) 7 years ago

Harry Potter is not dead. The next installment, "Harry Potter and the Cursed Child," based on the play/screenplay has been announced as an upcoming film.

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 7 years ago

Really, after all this time? That's great news!

Hope they can revive the once gigantic franchise. It worked for Jurrasic Park, err.. World. Didn't work for Terminator though.

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