I mean Kylo Ren has been taking loses left and right. You don't have a sense of fear for the main characters because each of them can 1v1 Kylo Ren and beat him by plot. What's the point of watching a series where the villains are not real threats. Rey with a day of training beat kylo with ease. Wait until she actually gets training. Oh boy.
shareRey with a day of training beat kylo with ease. Wait until she actually gets training. Oh boy.
Still waiting for the Luke criticism, for beating Darth Vader despite never receiving lightsaber training, and technically being less qualified than Rey since she at least fended for herself with a staff for many years (as opposed to farm boy Luke).
Still waiting for the Luke criticism, for downloading knowledge about how to build his own lightsaber, since he was never taught how.
Still waiting for the Luke criticism, for being promoted to X-Wing fighter pilot the instant he shows up on Yavin IV, despite him having just met Leia and no one has seen him fly anything at all.
Still waiting for the Luke criticism, for doing a Force-pull on his saber at the opening of Empire even though he had no way of even knowing the telekinesis was possible with the Force. He'd not seen that done once, nor did Kenobi teach him anything about that kind of power.
Oh yeah, I keep forgetting: Guys can get away with these kinds of fantasy shortcuts, because reasons.
Probably learned lightsabery with Yoda since he trained with him between ESB and RotJ. It wasn't just a couple of days between them.
Plus he busted Leia out of the Death Star and blasted a couple of tie fighters so he is a bit qualified and said he had piloting skills in the cantina.
That's always been my take on Luke.
Luke didn't go to Yoda between ESB and ROTJ.
But the piloting thing is a great example, it's one of those things -- Luke says he's a pretty good pilot, and that's accepted, thus no one questions it when he gets tossed into an X-Wing. Rey says she's a pilot to Finn, but for years the Rey-bashers sit there asking "How did she know how to fly, why does she fly the Falcon so well, when did she learn this," on and on and on.
And I have no dispute with either character. My only dispute is with people who will accept Luke's word but question Rey's word. Definite double standard.
Plus they're fine with a farm boy turning into an uber Jedi who gets better with a saber than Darth Vader, but they refuse to accept that Rey actually had prior experience with a saber-like weapon.
In that mindset, the default for Rey is helpless and defenseless, while the default for Luke is "hero character." There's no reason for that kind of thinking and it completely dismisses blatant character traits and histories of Rey simply to cut her down.
I can respect a difference of opinions but I can't respect someone being intellectually dishonest the way you go about Frog. Making the same tired arguments no matter how many times they get dismantled i.e.(If Rey is a MS then so is LUKE falacy), hoping that if you just keep saying the same thing over and over it will eventually become credible. First off Luke's organically expositioned piloting ability is way more credible than Rey's on the spot remark (because the plot needed it) about being a pilot. Luke being a skilled amateur pilot is thoroughly explained before hand and even then he seems out of his depth on the Falcon "what's that flashing?"
We Never see Luke performing the miraculous stunt piloting maneuvers we saw Rey employ without a co pilot in a ship she had never flown. Luke is also more credible when you factor in that Luke's piloting is his ONLY real skill & has a backstory the lends to the credibility that he would have plenty of time to hone his skills. Rey on the other hand already has a highly improbable jack of all trades skill set. Despite barely scrapping by as a scavenger she's a brilliant mechanic and engineer, a street brawler (presumably because of her "hard" life having to fend for herself) despite not having a single scar to show for it & somehow also an expert pilot to top it off.
You dishonestly try to equate the level of lightsaber progression between Luke & Rey when in ANH even with some training Luke could not wield a light saber confidently let alone fight with one AND WIN against a powerful trained dark force user the way Rey did with ZERO experience or training. You continuously choose to ignore the fact that YEARS pass between ANH & TESB with Luke during this time further discovering Jedi knowledge and artifacts to hone his skills as best he could during this time compared to Rey's miraculous progression happening over a matter of days because in the this Di$ney era all she had to do was "download" her ability. Luke's 3 years+ experience, trained by Yoda, & still couldn't lift an X wing & brutally lost to Vader.
You forgot about Rey shooting 3 tie fighters in one go.
shareYou are a fucking piece of shit frog, FUCK you.
Rey is a slut and a fucking cunt.
We don't know how long Luke was training on Dagobah, he said that after his failure in the cave "he's learned so much since then" so we can assume that it was a long period of time (weeks, months maybe?) and even then he got his ass handed to him by Darth Vader and then in Jedi he wasn't able to defeat Vader until he let his hate out. Luke also could never have blown up the Death Star if it wasn't for all of those rebel pilots paving the way for him and for Solo coming in at the last second and clearing the TIE fighters out of the way. And also lets not forget that he had to be saved by Obi-Wan earlier in the film. Hell he couldn't even come close to mastering a Jedi mind trick until his 3rd film and even then it didn't work on Jabba.
Rey on the other hand has absolutely no challenges or obstacles to over come, she was perfect when we met her so therefore watching her progression is incredibly boring because she has no character flaws or challenges to overcome.
This is a very tired and asinine argument that Frog keeps putting forth. She knows she can't justify Rey's blandness so she has to deflect to Luke and that argument falls flat on its stupid face every time.
I love how all the Rey-bashers just show up and start going this stuff, start making excuses for Luke and why he doesn't take fantasy shortcuts (which he does).
It's like you guys think you're arguing logic instead of simply proving everything I said about the double standards.
"We don't know how long Luke was training on Dagobah"
Oh and this is a great example of the double standard. We can just make up stuff for Luke that happens offscreen, right? For Rey, it has to be SHOWN.
Hell, Rey isn't even allowed her own character traits. Like the fact that she fended for herself for years on Jakku using a staff, yet that gets stripped away to portray her as a know-nothing female, leading to the question "How can she handle a lightsaber?"
Luke can say he's a pilot and it's fine to see him tossed into an X-Wing for BATTLE by people who have never seen him fly. Rey says she's a pilot and yet she gets picked apart for flying the Falcon.
Luke gets sympathy from Leia over Kenobi dying, who Luke had known for a day and making Luke the center of attention, even though Leia's entire planet and family and friends were all just murdered.
But if Leia hugs Rey instead of hugging Chewbacca onscreen, Rey is a Mary Sue.
It's a sick misogynistic game.
"This is a very tired and asinine argument that Frog keeps putting forth."
Coming from a worn out troll like yourself, that means nothing. You're a joke on this site and you know it, moron.
Luke gets sympathy from Leia over Kenobi dying, who Luke had known for a day and making Luke the center of attention, even though Leia's entire planet and family and friends were all just murdered.
Except we know that Rey's journey to become a fully trained Jedi literally took about 2 days. We also know for a fact that more happened off screen with Luke and Yoda, "I've learned so much since then" proves my point. You are a complete joke Frogorama, deep down you know that Rey is a very poorly written character but since she is a female you just can't admit it. You also seem to be too stupid to realize that Star Wars has always had strong female characters (Leia and Padme both of who were far better written than Rey). I think you are the one who has a gender problem you deplorable sexist.
As for Luke, reading comprehension clearly isn't your strength as I pointed out that Luke never would have been able to blow up the Death Star had it not been for Kenobi, the rebel pilots and Han/Chewie. Something tells me that A New Hope is too complex of a film for your tiny brain to handle, you'd better stick with TFA.
Stick to attack of the clones Hippo. Let us real Star Wars fans enjoy the masterpieces Disney created. Also go enjoy that terrible Dark Knight Rises film.
shareLol. We both know that you trolling with these absurd deflections, Frogarama. Funny thing is you need to pull things out of 3 (three) films happening over the period of years. While my example was Rey doing everything untrained in a few hours in only one movie. Think about it.
Oh, and please revisit my plot beat by plot beat comparison of Rey and Luke in ANH:
https://moviechat.org/tt2527336/Star-Wars-Episode-VIII-The-Last-Jedi/5abb685d726ee40014467a6c/Reys-power-make-since-if-her-mother-fucked-a-force-ghost
I think this has been one of the biggest mistakes of the series so far. Kylo has been ruined as a serious threat and the biggest threat in the current trilogy was completely wasted, I am hoping JJ is working on a way to fix this.
shareby lordbishop:
Kylo has been ruined as a serious threat and the biggest threat in the current trilogy was completely wasted, I am hoping JJ is working on a way to fix this.
@ Fix ? You forget Jar Jar co -wrote the first episode.
...watching TFA I think it is quite obvious that Kylo was never intended to be the true villian of the trilogy.
To address to OP question. This Di$ney ST is already irredeemably terrible so in a way I'd almost prefer Rey simply continue to prove superior Kylo Ren if only for the sake of plot consistency. He has proven little threat to her before she had even a spec of training and we know she's going to defeat him in the end so I'd prefer things just keep going as they have but I predict that Jar Jar will contrive some plot device for Kylo to suddenly seem somewhat of an actual threat to Rey in a last minute attempt to create "some" degree of suspense so her inevitable triumph seems a slightly less bland, foregone conclusion
shareIt does make it difficult for there to be story tension when the main villain keeps losing and the main hero is grossly overpowered and never seems to struggle to overcome anything. Even when they team up and fight the guards she is better then him and throws him a lightsaber to 'save' him.
It is a strange thing really. The first order is grossly incompetent and lead by poor leaders. Only snoke seems to be somewhat powerful but he has no real objective and gives little clear direction. But what is even stranger is despite this the rebels are some how even worse off and nearly defeated by this grossly incompetent force.
Does it seems like a race to the bottom with this sequel trilogy?
Also, who says Rey wins her last fight? Maybe she loses against Kylo and goes full self sacrifice (the sacrifice Finn was hindered from doing).
Remember, Mary Sue characters love to die tragically. Excerpt from the original Trekkie Tale (1974):
However the disease finally got to Mary Sue and she fell fatally ill. In the Sick Bay as she breathed her last, she was surrounded by Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy, and Mr. Scott, all weeping unashamedly at the loss of her beautiful youth and youthful beauty, intelligence, capability and all around niceness. Even to this day her birthday is a national holiday of the Enterprise.
I understand that Mary Sues "can" die as part of some noble sacrifice but MaRey is no ordinary Mary Sue. There is no way in hell Kathleen Kennedy would permit this to happen to her feminist fantasy self insert protagonist. She has clearly been set up to be Luke Skywalker's replacement. To succeed where he and Anakin failed. That's why they were so adamant about making him a failure then killing him off. While I think it's delusional I believe they envision Rey being as beloved and iconic as Luke Skywalker for years to come & will push to make this happen far beyond this trilogy alone. No doubt they plan to have further spin offs, novels & future sequels with Rey in mind. There is just no way Rey gets killed off or falls to the dark side, assuming she's ever even shown to be legitimately tempted.
That being said, it's definitely a possibility for them to pull the fake out/temporary death where she's allowed to make the "emotional" Mary Sue noble sacrifice but miraculously survives or is quickly revived via some likely force related Deus Ex Machina
Yes I agree that it's highly unlikely, but imo it would be the best story wise considering her winning streak and to differentiate this character from Luke and anakin - right now she is a sex changed idealized copy without real character.
It's also noteworthy that they recently did did something similar to Ashoka in rebels but later brought her back via force time travel.
I'm sure Rey will sacrifice herself at the end of the trilogy, if anyone. No male hero will be allowed to selflessly sacrifice himself unless he is first berated as being a failure and a fool (Poe), needs to be lectured to by a female over the timing and value of any attempted sacrifice with words about the value of love over hate (Finn), or is we are told needs to "redeem" himself for causing the collapse of the Republic (Han & Luke). I still don't understand why Holdo and Leia aren't just as culpable for their failures and stupidities (the total collapse of the Republic and the disastrous situation the Resistance finds itself in at the beginning of TLJ). It would never occur to Disney to demand that they (Leia, Holdo) "redeem themselves" for those obvious failings.
shareThe first of many.
But she will save and convert him no doubt.