Can it be good?


Question for both fans and haters of TFA. Most universally admit at this point TFA left a lot of questions, right? With that in mind what kind of things will TLJ need to do to satisfy you?

full disclosure. I hated TFA and thought it one of the worst big budget films I have ever seen, on par with Fast and Furious or Transformers movies. So if you respond I may react critically. I am trying to spark a more deep and analytical/critical look at TFA and what TLJ would need to be like to be good or, as I see it, make up for the poor elements from Episode 7 (which I have a hard time even considering what could be done at this point to make up for TFA). I understand that in many ways discussing this new star wars franchise gets heated and political so hopefully we can remain civil.

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I thought TFA was a steaming pile of dog shit. And I think JJ is the worst and incapable of an original idea. So yeah, I think this movie is probably going to be great. The best thing released since Jedi. For all TFA's problems, the characters are pretty good. And we're finally getting Old Man Luke. I think the film will still be too formulaic and slave to Star Wars beats. I'm not gonna go see it. I don't support Disney. But i'm sure it's gonna be pretty okay.

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Question for both fans and haters of TFA...

full disclosure. I hated TFA

I've a bad feeling about this...

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Yeah, given they way some conversations have gone for TFA in imdb and even some discussions here, it is fully justified to have a bad feeling.

I figure if I was open about my position it would attract only those interested in reasonable discussion and disagreement to participate.

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I agree that TFA was bad and that JJ has a proven record of being a director with zero creativity and now he is coming back for episode 9; so that is not a good sign.

Out of curiosity why do you think the characters were pretty good in TFA?

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not a snowballs chance in hell. its even more shait than jar jar abrahms movie. the director got canned.

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I thought the director for episode 9 and the directors for the han solo movie were fired; the director for TLJ didn't as far as I know.

Is there anything this new one could offer that could change your mind?

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Yeah...Rian Johnson...I think that's his name...pretty sure he's been ther since day one.

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I have rather liked some of Rian Johnson's films. The Brothers Bloom and Looper are were good i thought.

In a franchise film series like this though I am not sure Rian will have much control or creative input that he can do. In addition to that he has to keep in mind this is a tied in series which means the events of episode 7 and 9 will have to be considered when making his episode 8.

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I didn't hate TFA, but its surprised me how so many people were giving it a pass. People attacked the prequels relentlessly but praise this film. So many 10 star ratings on imdb and the story rehash alone is a reason to drop it a star. I didn't think the old stars were used well, the new guys I am struggling with. Poe wasn't on screen enough for me to develop any sort of feeling for. Rey is likable but her force development doesn't feel believable. And I can't stand Finn, period. The film also features one of the worst lightsaber battles of the series. I have watched/read enough Star Wars to know that even an injured Ren should have been able to kill/incapacitate both Finn and Rey fairly easily.

In the next film I hope they better explain Rey's force use, make Finn likable, expand Poe's role, don't misuse Luke in some cheap attempt to elevate the current cast, not be a ESB remake, undue the damage they did to the credibility of Ren as a villain and not drop the ball on Snoke's reveal if they go that far.

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Good analysis. funny all the things you mentioned are the reasons I hated the film. I guess they bothered me more than they bothered you, I mean you noticed them and point them out; but these things made me despise the film.

Yes I have found it quite annoying that so many give it a pass and defend from criticisms to an almost insane level.

The lightsaber battle I thought was well choreographed I liked the more brutal and less synced appearance of it. I thought the PT lightsaber battles were a little too choreographed and felt like a dance more than a fight. But yes the outcome of Rey v Ren was ridiculous I agree.

Rey's force power ups is going to be the hardest thing to explain I think. I really do not see anything reasonable to get rid of this problem unless they do a retro fix and suggest her entire memory on Jakuu was false and she was trained at Luke's academy until just a few years prior and she had a false memory inserted. When Ren was probing her it unleashed part of her training. But this will feel really tacky and I don't think this is what they will do.

Finn likeable? I don't think that is possible they already butched him too bad. Poe I think will get a bigger role and Luke could be a hit or miss. ESB remake? it looks like it so far, hopefully that is misdirection in the trailers. Ren credibility is really hurt bad; if they intend on making him the villain he needs to something extreme. I think killing Rey would be that but I do not see that happening. Snoke reveal, they totally butched Ren being Han's and Leia's son in TFA so right now they don't have a good track record on reveals.

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I enjoy Martial Art films and I see the force enhanced abilities of Jedi established in prior films fall in line with some of the more outrageous abilities seen in those style of films. So watching a reasonably trained even if injured Dark Jedi battle two untrained people like he was a drunk knight from medieval times just felt wrong to me, but I do see your point on the brutality part.

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Ah that makes sense. I have mixed feelings on martial arts films. I find the fantasy fighting to be a bit silly. There have been a few exceptions; bruce lee movies I like and The Legend with Jet Li were good. but I usually like fighting styles that are a little more realistic. But I get were you are coming from now.

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