Star Wars: The Last Jedi Official Teaser
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX4kLc0gtiY
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MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion > Star Wars: The Last Jedi Official Teaser
Is Rey going to be grey, Luke bad and Kylo go to the light?? I ask this because of the poster they released as well. Interesting to think about!
shareVery impressive.
shareMakes zero sense ... kylo still fighting the fight after being easy beaten by someone in their first saber fight?
Plus rey trains in this, his only option is to become good now because he has ZERO chance of beating her ever again.
Skywalker will end the Jedi because that will bring about the end of the Skywalker family of men. This will leave a 'new' non-Jedi based force model for female rey to successfully champion into the future where the galaxy will live in peace - due to her.
"This will leave a 'new' non-Jedi based force model for female rey to successfully champion into the future where the galaxy will live in peace - due to her."
truth bomb
I wonder if they will wrap up the franchise in Ep 9 or continue with Rey in Ep 10 as a Jedi Master.
Kylo wasn't fully trained. Snopes is training him while Luke trains Rey.
I believe the Skywalker line will live on because Rey may be one. I don't know if they'll get rid of the popular Jedi order especially if the continue the movies with a new Jedi Order.
BTW, the new creators like to trick the fans. Will that last line about ending the Jedi remain in the movie?
How is referencing that kylo is 'not fully trained' even considered a logic argument point?
What is he, 90%? compared to rey who is what ... 0%? Or perhaps 5% if there is a backstory that she was trained as a kid but somehow lost her memory?
I brought it up because you implied only Rey will train when it's both. It should lead to an intense showdown.
We don't know how much training Rey has had since her background is only hinted at in the Force Awakens. My guess is she's a Skywalker, either a cousin or half-sibling of Ren's. She could be much more powerful in the Force than Ren - similar to Vader's ability. The memory lost could be trauma from witnessing the Jedi being slaughtered.
I have faith that all will make sense when we see the next movie and get our answers.
What does being a Skywalker have to do with it? Kylo Ren is a Skywalker too but that didnt stop him having his ass easily handed to him.
How can rey have had more training prior to being a small child when she was dropped off on Tatooine2/jakku than Kylo has had for his entire life up until this point?
IF she has actually somehow had loads of training then HOW exactly is Ren meant to beat her now that she is training MORE?
There is no way that a victory on his part is plausible.
The only angle is that rey's target is Voldemort2/Snoke with Ren being a peripheral character from now on.
No doubt Snoke was SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than Luke and only supergirl rey has the potential to beat him now.
Begin steely faced feminist expression+open mouth.
This is why Disney shouldn't be allowed to make star wars movies. They basically screwed up the 9 part series.
shareWhat does being a Skywalker have to do with it?
Everything. Luke, "The Force is strong in my family."
Ren was beaten because Rey is more powerful in the Force than he is. Someone who is extremely powerful in the Force with less training would beat someone weaker in the Force with more training.
It's also obvious that some of her ability is innate which is why she was able to outfly the Tie fighters when she piloted the Millennium Falcon. That's similar to young Anakin's podracing skill according to Qui-gon.
Interesting twist would be granddaughter Rey having Vader's level of Force ability which would really upset Ren since he's the one who wants to be like him.
Ren was the one who physically beat Luke or at least his students - not Snoke - since we see Ren at the burning site.
Don't exclude emotion. Luke couldn't kill his own father. I question if Rey or Ren will kill each other if they are closely related. share
"Ren was beaten because Rey is more powerful in the Force than he is. Someone who is extremely powerful in the Force with less training would beat someone weaker in the Force with more training."
Absolutely 100% incorrect. we have 6 other films that prove undeniably you are wrong. Anakin was beaten by both Dooku and Obi-wan despite having far greater force potential than even Yoda. Why? because he was not as well trained and arrogant.
"It's also obvious that some of her ability is innate which is why she was able to outfly the Tie fighters when she piloted the Millennium Falcon. That's similar to young Anakin's podracing skill according to Qui-gon."
Bad comparison. Anakin had actually raced before even if not winning, Rey ever have experience 'dodge' piloting a cargo ship? If so we (the audience) should be informed of that somehow. Force powers before training do nothing more than provide quicker reflexes and intuition. You still need training to use the force for skills and powers.
"Interesting twist would be granddaughter Rey having Vader's level of Force ability which would really upset Ren since he's the one who wants to be like him."
"interesting" is not the word I would use. Predictable, cliche, boring; all would be more appropriate.
"Ren was the one who physically beat Luke or at least his students - not Snoke - since we see Ren at the burning site."
We in no way know that at this point. Luke might not have been present during those events at all. The other Knights of Ren might have killed most of his students as far was we know.
"Don't exclude emotion. Luke couldn't kill his own father. I question if Rey or Ren will kill each other if they are closely related."
Its like you have to ignore things at a pick and choose will to justify TFA. Ren just killed his own father in the last film. Why would you question if anyone would not kill anyone at this point?
Anakin's arrogance did him in both times he lost. Notice how The Emperor's arrogance did him in also. Luke even mentions that it would.
No human was able to podrace except for Anakin. His reflexes were so quick, he was able to survive the sport. Qui-gon mentions The Force being responsible for Anakin's quick reflexes. As for Rey, there are two novels that contradict each other. One says that Rey never piloted a ship while the other one says she had which would explain her flying experience. Maybe we'll see her piloting ships in the upcoming animated cartoon - who knows?
Ren and his followers are the ones attacking the Jedi. That's shown in Rey's flashback and in the Last Jedi trailer. We see Ren and the Knights of Ren there.
"Ren just killed his own father in the last film."
I'm glad you brought that up. My theory is that Ren couldn't kill Rey instead he hid her on that planet. Remember, Rey says that her "family" left her there - never says her parents. Ren was not evil enough to kill her. He has an opportunity to redeem himself when Snoke tells him to kill his own father. This time, he doesn't fail. Ren needed to prove to himself (and Snoke) that he is as evil as Vader.
I've been leaning towards Rey being Ren's half sister instead of cousin since it explains a few plot points better than if she were a cousin or stranger. Star Wars was always about the Skywalker family so it makes sense that she's one too.
Just 228 more days to find out.
"Anakin's arrogance did him in both times he lost. Notice how The Emperor's arrogance did him in also. Luke even mentions that it would."
Okay so you are in no way even going to attempt to argue my other point? Just because one is "more powerful in the force" does not mean they will win by that alone. They need training. Kylo was not arrogant when facing Rey because he suffers from self doubt. So How does Rey's being "stronger in the force" allow her to tap into all the force abilities without training?
"No human was able to podrace except for Anakin. His reflexes were so quick, he was able to survive the sport. "
Anakin states he is the only human who can do it because he is the only human around the area that does it. That does not mean he is the only human in the universe that can do it. And as I said quick reflexes is the most obvious sign of force potential. quick reflexes does not equal jedi mind trick in level of ability. One is inherited the other is learned. big difference which is why your comparison was poor.
"As for Rey, there are two novels that contradict each other. One says that Rey never piloted a ship while the other one says she had which would explain her flying experience. Maybe we'll see her piloting ships in the upcoming animated cartoon - who knows?"
In all honesty I do not give a rats ass what anything other than the movie tells us. The movie gave us a lazy throw away line about her being a pilot 2 seconds before she is flying a ship she states she has never flown better than anyone we have ever seen. It was lazy, stupid writing and made her character even more unrelateable and overpowered. Everything about Rey contradicts the previous 6 films and what they taught us on the nature of the force. Rey killed the spirituality of the force and turned cheap movie magic gimmick.
"Ren and his followers are the ones attacking the Jedi. That's shown in Rey's flashback and in the Last Jedi trailer. We see Ren and the Knights of Ren there. "
That does not mean Kylo was the one to as you said "physically beat Luke and his students" you are making huge assumptions here based one as far as we know unreliable flashback. And as I said those flashbacks do not show Luke present during the attack, it shows him possibly there in the aftermath. And that is assuming that the quick flash with R2 was the same attack that Kylo 'lead' or a different event possibly even in the future. There is just too much unknown. Every damn thing in this film was a cheap 'mystery box' that JJ Abrams is obsessed with. Go watch his Ted talk on it. The guy is a hack with a cheap magic trick gimmick that idiots seem to love.
"I'm glad you brought that up. My theory is "blah blah blah
Why would you be glad I disproved your point completely and why do you counter with something completely unrelated to your own point. You said " I question if Rey or Ren will kill each other if they are closely related" maybe that was true in the past, maybe; the fact that Kylo killed his father demonstrates that time is past now. So what the hell point are you trying to make?
"I've been leaning towards Rey being Ren's half sister instead of cousin since it explains a few plot points better than if she were a cousin or stranger. Star Wars was always about the Skywalker family so it makes sense that she's one too."
It explains nothing better and is just the most obvious direction to take things. It makes it stupid for it to be a mystery in the first place. There is literally no need for the mystery if that is the case. We are not going to get another shock like "i am your father" again and trying to mimic it in anyway is going to be cheap and weak, like the Leia is luke's sister. Making everyone a Skywalker and super powerful because of it is as pathetic as handing kids 'participation' trophies.
"Just 228 more days to find out."
I would have preferred it not happening at all given what it is. But then I would not been 'awakened' to the great foolishness and mass gullibility of the movie audience.
Rey did have training. Perhaps she's a prodigy like Anakin.
Anakin was literally the only human who could podrace because human reflexes aren't quick enough. It's in the book. Quick reflexes helps one to podrace and to pilot a ship which explains why Rey could evade enemy fire so well in the Millennium Falcon.
BTW, if Luke can pilot a military vessel X-Wing that he never flew so expertly, then Rey can pilot too. Double-standard?
It's obvious that Ren doesn't want to kill Rey. He was trying to recruit her. "I can train you."
There is no mystery. You have watched only the first third of a trilogy therefore two-thirds of the story hasn't been told yet. The movie is about the Skywalker family, so yes, it's going to have Skywalkers in it.
There's nobody more foolish and gullible than a person who complains about a movie trilogy but continues to watch it anyway.
"Rey did have training. Perhaps she's a prodigy like Anakin."
Most have been in the version I did not see. Oh wait there is only one version. Fun when we can just make up stuff to fit our argument. She did not get any training whatsoever in the film.
"Anakin was literally the only human who could podrace because human reflexes aren't quick enough."
So no other jedi could race pods? most have missed that part. Only anakin claims he is the only human that can do it, as far as he knows anyway. Quigon is not all that taken aback by the fact he can do he simply replies "you must have jedi reflexes to race pods."
" It's in the book."
I don't give a shit what is any book. It is not in the film and that is all that matters.
" Quick reflexes helps one to podrace and to pilot a ship which explains why Rey could evade enemy fire so well in the Millennium Falcon."
The force helps and gives quick relfexes, it doesn't posses the person and give them skills they don't already have. "that's not how the force works" well until TFA shit all over the mysticism of the force and turned into harry potter like magic.
"BTW, if Luke can pilot a military vessel X-Wing that he never flew so expertly, then Rey can pilot too. Double-standard?"
HAHAHAHA Luke flew it expertly? when the hell did that happen in a new hope. He almost crashed twice, almost got shot down twice and barely did anything until he got that one shot off but not before being saved by both Wedge and Han from being killed. oh yeah he was a real expert. It is not a double standard. Luke had massive amounts of experience in a ship that was similar to the x-wing similar enough for him to do alright overall and get that one shot off. watch the movie again he is no expert. Rey never flying a ship like the falcon pulls of stunt fighter moves with it that even the most experience pilots like Lando could not do without almost crashing.
Here is the thing to. Luke's piloting had proper build up. We are told repeadedly throughout the film that he is a good pilot by not just him but others that know him. Luke however does fly until the end when we already accept him as a character. Rey got one throw away line Finn: "We need a pilot" Rey: "we've got one" next thing we know she is pulling off stunts unlike anything we have ever seen. it was lazy development and, at least those like me, had not accepted Rey as a character yet so it was annoying to watch.
"It's obvious that Ren doesn't want to kill Rey. He was trying to recruit her. "I can train you."
That does not have anything to do with the point you were making. In that scene yes obviously he was trying to recruit her. going forward we do not know if she is willing to kill him or he to kill her. But as I said he did kill his father so family is not safe.
"There is no mystery. "
Okay either you are an idiot or in denial.
" You have watched only the first third of a trilogy therefore two-thirds of the story hasn't been told yet."
That is not how a good story is developed. You don't start by saying you have a mystery, that is a cheap gimmick. That is the mystery box gimmick. For f**ks sake go watch JJ Abrams Ted talk on it and see what a cheap trick it is. A proper mystery does not tell you there is a mystery. why did the "I am your Father" reveal work so great? It was because we were not expecting it. Now because of TFA everyone is expecting answers to dozens of plot important questions. That is backwards story telling.
"There's nobody more foolish and gullible than a person who complains about a movie trilogy but continues to watch it anyway."
Who said I am going to watch it? I certainly won't be paying for it. Maybe if it is on TV one day I will watch it. I did not watch TFA or Rogue one in theaters.
And even if I did it does not mean I am foolish or gullible, just hopeful star wars can be great again. Foolish and gullible would be accepting what you get even if it trash, lying to yourself that it was good, and trying to defend it pathetically with weak logic and arguments because deep down inside you know it sucked but are to weak and pathetic to admit it.
Again, you're complaining about the entire plot not being in the first 1/3 of the story when two more movies are being released.
When Maz Kanata asked Han who Rey was, the scene ended before we heard his reply. Obviously her identity is important.
"She did not get any training whatsoever in the film."
No need to show it in the film when it's obvious. Rey beat up the goons, piloted a ship, and used the Force. This was a fast-moving action-packed film. Abrams showed the result of the training.
"It is not in the film and that is all that matters."
Lucas and Disney disagree with you and so do the EU fans. If you want to know why C3PO has a red arm, then you'll have to read the book. LOL.
Your double-standard is still showing. Luke was able to pilot and outmaneuver in a MILITARY VESSEL that he never flown while seasoned rebel pilots were getting killed. There is a difference between a military vessel and a civilian one he flew in Beggar's Canyon. The Millennium Falcon is an old junk vessel. Even when Luke was young, it was old junk. Rey flying that would be the equivalent of you driving a Model T, a more simple, slower version of whatever you drive in 2017. BTW, she knew space vehicles because she could repair them.
Now you have a problem with mystery? All good movies have mystery. You shouldn't know what happens before you watch it.
The movie is causing you a great deal of pain and grief. And I believe you watched the movie more than once. LOL. Now that's foolish and gullible. Life is short. Move on. Become a Potterhead. They await your arrival.
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[–] saviodium (13) a minute ago
"Again, you're complaining about the entire plot not being in the first 1/3 of the story when two more movies are being released. "
No I am not, the events and actions that took place needed exposition to give it context and meaning. There was none given and it requires future movies to explain away. It is backwards story telling. You obviously have very little understanding of what that looks like.
For example, do you need the two towers to explain the fellowship? Do you need The road warrior to explain Mad Max? Do you need ESB to explain ANH? Do you need Reloaded to Explain the Matrix? I could go on but I think you get the point. Even if the story is 3 parts you never want to use part 2 to explain part one and give it relevance. it needs to be able to stand on it own within its own time frame. TFA does not.
"When Maz Kanata asked Han who Rey was, the scene ended before we heard his reply. Obviously her identity is important."
yeah cuz Rey is just like so super and important I mean look and how mysterious and amazing she is. now imagine me rolling my eyes at how pathetic that is.
Because of the way they set this up, no answer to her backstory will ever satisfy everyone; in fact think about all the possible answers. Now do you think a majority of the fans will be impressed with any of them. if you say yes, you are lying to yourself.
"No need to show it in the film when it's obvious. Rey beat up the goons, piloted a ship, and used the Force. This was a fast-moving action-packed film. Abrams showed the result of the training."
How is it obvious? Imagine James Bond doing all he does without the background of being a spy given. That is what Rey is. How is she a good fighter? think about the film does not suggest Jakuu is a violent place. scarcity does not automatically equal violence. Before BB-8 shows up it looks to me Jakuu is relatively peaceful. There is not one suggestion of danger before then. How is she a pilot? the film gives absolutely nothing but her words right before piloting. That makes it hard to accept and route for her when she seemingly gets contrived abilities whenever the plot calls for it. How does she know the force? If the flashback is accurate and she has been on Jakuu since about 8 or 9 how did she get that good with it? because she is just so "strong in the force" again that is not how the force works. Or at least it didn't till JJ got his hands on it.
TFA has some of the most useless fast pass never slow down action I have seen in a film. No time for explanation, no time to let the characters and plot sink in. Just from one explosion to another. It was a more like a carnival ride than a movie.
"Lucas and Disney disagree with you and so do the EU fans. If you want to know why C3PO has a red arm, then you'll have to read the book. LOL."
Disney maybe, how do you figure Lucas? Everyone of his movies could stand on their own merit; even if they were really bad movies like AOTC, they never needed outside material to fill in this many gaps. At worse it was a few minor plot holes; like in TPM you could ask why Anakin was allowed to race in the first place. That would be a fair question but the plot doesn't rely on that the same way as how can Rey do the mind trick? Why does Finn rebel? Where the hell did Poe go? Why does R2 just wake up? Why is everyone looking for Luke, why is he even missing? I mean the questions important to the plot just go on and on. Does TPM, arguably one of the worse Star Wars film leave gaping holes like this? No it does not.
"Your double-standard is still showing..."
No it is not. You're lack intelligence is still showing. Luke did NOT outmaneuver anyone. Each time he was pursued he was about to be shot down. He was saved by others sacrificing themselves and 2 coming to his rescue. in addition to that he almost crashes twice. The film suggest that the controls for the T-16 were similar enough to the x-wing for him to do alright. and he does only alright. I really do not understand how people like you cannot see the difference between how Luke's piloting abilities were set up and how Rey's set up is not comparable in the slightest.
Also your analogy with the Model T is really ignorant. Older vehicles are much harder to drive than modern vehicles where almost everything is automated. seriously go try driving a model T and see if you can even move it let alone stunt drive it. very stupid comparison on your part.
"BTW, she knew space vehicles because she could repair them. "
What a stupid comment. just because you can fix something does not mean you can it. You think airplane mechanics can fly the planes too? wow, stupid.
"Now you have a problem with mystery? All good movies have mystery. You shouldn't know what happens before you watch it."
First all, I did not say I have a problem with mystery, I have a problem with lazy mystery for the sake of it that is used only as a trick to mystify the stupid. Second of all, not "all good movies have mystery" that is blatantly false and requires some kind of source of proof. Otherwise it is a baseless claim. In addition to that even when good movies have mystery the plot itself does not rely on it but it compliments the plot. Look at Christopher Nolan's films the plot still works without the mystery, the mystery just adds a deeper layer to the films. The riddle does not need to be answered for the characters abilities and plot to work.
"The movie is causing you a great deal of pain and grief."
Not really more of an annoyance and disappointment. Stupid people just going along with the soulless rehash and thus contributing to the further decay of cinema and society as a whole is causing me "pain and grief".
"And I believe you watched the movie more than once. LOL. Now that's foolish and gullible. Life is short. Move on. Become a Potterhead. They await your arrival."
Well I guess believe what you want, but I did indeed only watch the movie once; in addition I have watched a few reviews and went back to review myself certain scenes. But I did not watch the entire film more than once. and the one time I did see it I did not pay for it someone else did.
What is a "potterhead"?
"it needs to be able to stand on it own within its own time frame."
You are thinking of Force Awakens as a single movie instead of 1/3 of a story or part of a six hour movie. Disney doesn't have to follow your formula. Filmmakers are allowed to do things differently. Lucas did which is how we ended up with the very innovative first Star Wars movie.
"no answer to her backstory will ever satisfy everyone"
She's a Skywalker. Nuff said.
So you want exposition and a slow-paced movie? Lucas did that with the Phantom Menace and you fans complained ad nauseam. Now you know why Disney went in the opposite direction. Sorry, you don't get to complain about this too.
BTW, we never see James Bond being trained to fight, so why would you want to see Rey's training? We never see Bond taking driving lessons or learning how to shoot a gun. But, you want to see Rey taking flying lessons. Double-standard, boring and dumb.
"she seemingly gets contrived abilities whenever the plot calls for it. How does she know the force?"
You may need to watch the film again since the answer is very obvious when you're paying attention.
"why Anakin was allowed to race in the first place. How can Rey do the mind trick? Why does Finn rebel? Where the hell did Poe go? Why does R2 just wake up? Why is everyone looking for Luke, why is he even missing?"
Most of your questions are answered in the movie which you obviously had a hard time following and explains why you didn't like the movie. You're faulting the movie for your own shortcomings.
"Everyone of his(Lucas) movies could stand on their own merit"
That's not true. Empire Strike Back ended with two major cliff hangers and one minor. Starting with The Phantom Menace, Lucas would introduce questions that had no answers in the movie. Example: Who is Anakin's father?
Whether you like it or not, Lucas and Disney created questions within the movies with answers in a book or game so that they could make more money.
"the controls for the T-16 were similar enough to the x-wing for him to do alright...Rey's set up is not comparable in the slightest" And you know this how?
A farmboy getting into a military space vessel for the first time and doing military maneuvers makes perfect sense to you? Why would he even know where the deflectors on a military ship were? How would he know the controls for attack position? His friend Biggs had military training at the Imperial Academy to learn what Luke just happens to know with no training. Experienced Porkins couldn't pull his vessel up, but untrained Luke could? Luke can fly well enough to shoot enemy fighters and save the experienced rebel pilots? Double standard.
It's fine for Luke to say he had piloted a ship, but it's not fine when Rey says she can pilot a ship? You must really hate capable females.
Pilot Han flew and fixed his own ship. Rey flew and could fix ships. Same thing. More double standard. More misogyny.
Model Ts didn't have complicated dashboards and were much slower. Do you think someone from 1920 would know what half of the controls on a modern car are?
Nolan's film have mystery and/or suspense. Inception, Intersteller and Memento. A movie that is completely predictable is boring. I had to watch each of these movies to know what the story was. Unlike most superhero movies which have no story - just a cliched formula.
"Not really more of an annoyance and disappointment."
Same difference. Just stop watching Star Wars movies or stick to the old ones.
Potterhead = google is your friend.
Okay. You are just an idiot than. No point in continuing with you.
Fuck off stupid
You obviously lost the argument and show your frustration through insults and profanity. Anger much?
share"You obviously lost the argument and show your frustration through insults and profanity. Anger much?"
Or I just have short patients for people that make crap arguments but than somehow think that means they one. I throw insults when they are warranted. Your arguments are so bad that I am justified in calling you an idiot . I made my points you refuted with weak non-arguments, deflections and a complete lack of understanding my points. I know that is not a failing on my end because of the way I articulate my points. The fail is on your ability of comprehension. So what else can I say besides you are an idiot?
Prove me wrong.
Lost the argument? You did not even address half of my points; just restated your own that I already picked apart. Fine let's do this because I got nothing better to do at the moment:
"You are thinking..."
First of all it is not "my formula" it is narrative building techniques developed since don quixote. This is how you build a story. Not JJ's lazy ass selling a mystery box that has nothing in it. You did not watch his Ted talk on the subject. the guy is a hack. Second this is not a 3 part single movie. It is an episode. Episodic stories need to be at least somewhat self contained. I will say Disney is breaking all the story telling rules by doing it this way, and it is certainly not for the better.
"She's a Skywalker. Nuff said."
Except for, what if she is not? Did you have some insight information that no one else is privy to? and if it is that simple why even bother making it a mystery to begin with.
"So you want exposition... "
Was ANH slow-paced was ESB? No, they balanced action with good story pacing and character development. Which gave the action meaning and depth. I never heard complaints on the pace of TPM, of the many valid criticisms that was not one of them. I certainly never complained about it because I like story building but nice strawman and fundemental attribute error you demonstrated there. Go watch David Stewart on Youtube he does brilliant videos on "non-arguments" of which you seemed to have mastered.
"BTW, we never see James Bond..."
Again you are a fucking idiot. It is implied by Bond being a secret agent that he went through training, therefore the audience does not need to see or specifically be told; because it is implied. If all Rey did was scavenge and maybe fix things it would fit her given background (because that is all that was implied), any other abilities she has need to be addressed in some fashion or it is the definition of contrived. So no stupid, it is in no way a double standard. What is a double standard is giving Rey such a pass just because she fit your narcissistic fan wish fulfillment.
"You may need to watch the film again..."
That is laughably false, considering all the filmmakers involved say it is a mystery, and even the characters within the film including Rey herself does not know how she does things. At best the film suggest she may have had training prior to being dropped off on Jakuu at around 8. Even if that is correct and she was trained prior to 8 how could she possible be at near master level of force abilities and piloting had she not been further developing those skills since being 8. again the story fit your wish fulfillment so you give it a pass on the narrative fail; that is the double standard.
"Most of your questions are answered... "
Again this is laughably false; the film does not answer these questions and again even the film makers say it will be addressed in future films. So you claiming to have answers that even the filmmakers say we do not have makes you an outright liar. A stupid one too because all the facts I have just stated are not hidden. Also again fuck you for suggesting I did not understand something and that being the reason I do not like it. Again this is a non-argument, as David Stewart puts it, it is the "your a poopy head" argument. And it is a sign you do not have a good argument.
"That's not true. Empire Strike Back ended... "
ESB did not need ROTJ to explain the events that took place or the character motivations or character abilities. Even the 'what' aspect of the mystery was answered within ESB; ROTJ just further elaborated on the how and why. TPM specifically states that "there was no father". That is not a mystery, how is there no father a mystery; but the movie does not rely on that mystery to make sense in the way TFA does. It is totally disingenuous to suggest these are comparable.
"A farmboy getting into..."
Depends on how similar his T-16 was to the military vessel, since the film suggest they are similar I accept that he was able to do alright. What military maneuvers did he use, almost crashing and getting shot down twice? oh yeah he was real impressive. What deflectors are you talking about? when did deflectors come up in the Death Star Battle? I think you have your movies confused. What controls for attack position? what are you talking about? what the hell movie did you watch? Porkins was shot down just like Luke almost was before being saved twice.
"It's fine for Luke to say he had piloted a ship, but it's not fine when Rey says she can pilot a ship? You must really hate capable females. "
Fuck you with your bullshit misogyny baseless claims. I love Allen Ripley, I love Sarah connor, I really like Furiosa, I like Selene; if the character is well written I don't give 2 shits was the sex is. Luke and Rey's piloting build up was no where near the same. Luke's piloting was talked about the whole movie and he does nothing until the end. Rey is flying stunt moves literally less than a minute after saying she is a pilot. you are a retard for pretending there is no difference.
"Pilot Han flew and fixed his own ship. Rey flew and could fix ships. Same thing. More double standard. More misogyny."
Hey fucking idiot, 1 had the background of a smuggler, so you know flying a smuggling ship would fit that background. 1 had a background of scavenger; how many scavengers you know that are pilots too, usually if one can pilot they would not be scavenging. her background is shit, just like your arguments.
"Model Ts didn't have complicated dashboards and were much slower. Do you think someone from 1920 would know what half of the controls on a modern car are?"
Seriously go try driving a car before power staring was invented and tell me if it was easier. modern cars are more complex machines but mostly automated; I guarantee you someone from the 1920's would have a much easier time figuring out how to drive our cars than we would their's. I once tried driving a 1932 dodge truck and it was much harder to control than a modern car.
"Nolan's film have mystery and/or suspense. Inception, Intersteller and Memento. A movie that is completely predictable is boring. I had to watch each of these movies to know what the story was. Unlike most superhero movies which have no story - just a cliched formula."
Way to totally miss my point. Nolan's films are good because of the way he uses mystery to add to the story. He does not rely on the mystery to hide the plot but to reveal it through the narrative. JJ does not use mystery the same way Nolan does. Again go watch his Ted talk on the mystery box before you say one more word to me. because you are ignorant; and way to arrogant for one so ill informed.
"Same difference. Just stop watching Star Wars movies or stick to the old ones."
So I don't get to ever hope star wars or movies as a whole can ever start making a comback to being good? I am stuck only watching movies before 2000 and not say a word about new movies being shit? Hey asshole, criticism is part of life; get used to it. I didn't kick your dog; I just reveled how weak your mind is and how crappy your taste in films is.
"Potterhead = google is your friend. "
That would only tell me what google thinks it is and not what you think or how you think it applies to me. but just FYI if you mean to think that I am a Harry Potter fan you would be incredibly wrong because I have never read the books nor seen any of the films. So again you are ignorant and arrogant; relying on non-arguments to prove you are superior, and failing miserably at it.
"I will say Disney is breaking all the story telling rules by doing it this way, and it is certainly not for the better."
That's your opinion.
Episode (multiple definitions):
1) An incident or group of incidents forming a section of a story; one installment of a serialized story.
2) a brief section of a literary or dramatic work that forms part of a connected series
That's what I wrote. It's the first third of a long story.
"ESB did not need ROTJ to explain the events that took place"
Of course, it did. Han had been taken by Boba Fett so he was in danger. Obi-wan and Yoda mentioned there being another person if Luke failed - his sibling. We didn't know who this sibling was. It also wasn't clear whether Vader was really Luke's father or messing with his head, and if he was his father, then why did Obi-Wan lie by telling him that Vader had killed his father? There was absolutely nothing self-contained about ESB. In 1980, these were cliffhangers that the fans were tortured by for a three long year wait until Episode 6.
You made my point by your not knowing anything about deflectors or an attack position. So, how would Luke know about them without military training when he's sitting in a military vehicle for the first time under stressful situation? A civilian vehicle wouldn't have deflectors, genius. Luke also knew how to do a military formation in the ship which is ridiculous. The T-16 and X-Wings don't look anything like each other - Google is still your friend. Luke was still able to survive while seasoned military pilots died. Not credible, but that doesn't bother you since you have a double-standard.
"Episode (multiple definitions):...."
I fail to read were it says they are so interconnected they rely on future installments to explain gaps in the story. Each section tells its complete story and the future installments add to it, elaborate, or revel new information. TFA requires the later part. That itself is not a problem, but the degree to which the plot is so dependent on those future explanation becomes problematic when the future installments literally have to backtrack to explain the events of the previous installment. You watch Westworld? did any episode require future episodes to explain what was happening? If you say yes then you do not understand story telling or how mystery is supposed to work.
"That's what I wrote. It's the first third of a long story. "
So was Fellowship of the Ring and Episode 1. Those were planned trilogies but did the next installments ever have to back track to explain the events of the previous installments. Again the answer is no. New information was given but it was not required for the events to make sense.
"Of course, it did. Han had been taken... blah...blah...I'm a babbling idiot....blah"
Now I am sure you do not understand story telling. Those questions left to answer in ROTJ where not required for ESB to make sense you idiot. For example we do not have to ask who Luke is? Why Han stays with the rebels? How luke is able to stand up to Vader? How Leia was able to 'hear' Luke? There was not one 'backwards' moving question to explain the events that took place in ESB. There was some open ended questions moving forward such as you pointed out, what is going to happen to Han? who is the 'other' hope Yoda mentions? How is Vader Luke's father?
This does NOT compare to question like How is Rey able to pilot the falcon like she does? Why is Finn different than the other troopers? Where did Poe run off to? Who is Snoke? Who are Rey's parents? How is she able to use force powers without training?
You don't understand creativity, serial movies nor marketing.
"The idea that a film needs to tell a complete, total, finite story within its running time is quickly becoming antiquated, and that’s exciting."
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2014/11/21/its-a-serialized-world-get-used-to-it
Creativity? you mean from the film that ripped off about 95% of its plots, themes, and visuals from the OT. Maybe you don't understand creativity.
And the quote from birthmoviesdeath.com i fundamentally disagree with. The reason that TV shows are off higher quality and more creative than movies is because they have the proper structure to tell narratives in that fashion. Turning movies into shows without the proper story structure is a disaster and the reason why movies have sucked for the most part in the last decade or more.
"the film that ripped off about 95% of its plots, themes, and visuals from the OT."
That was the whole point! It was to reestablish the Star Wars environment that existed in the original movie because fans enjoyed what was in those films: stormtroopers, X-wings, star destroyers, Evil Empire & rebels. JJ Abrams even said he wanted to recreate the look and feel of the original movies, but with new characters.
You just proved that you don't understand creativity, serial movies nor marketing.
reestablishing does require retreading nearly every plot point and visual almost beat for beat. In fact it hurts more than it helps. All it took to reestablish was bringing in old characters and some similar tools, vehicles and setting. Ripping of the plot and visual themes was lazy crap.
"JJ Abrams even said he wanted to recreate the look and feel of the original movies, but with new characters."
he did not recreate anything. Just like Star Trek Into Darkness, it was nothing recreated it was just mor eof the same.
"You just proved that you don't understand creativity, serial movies nor marketing."
It was in no way creative. It was incredibly clever marketing. It got the stupid masses fawning. Just look at the way you defend it.
"It was incredibly clever marketing."
Exactly. That''s what I wrote.
"he did not recreate anything."
You're not even aware that you're agreeing with me. "More of the same" = recreating.
"It was in no way creative."
Visually, there was limited creativity like the BB-8 design, costumes and Kylo's lightsaber. But, creativity wasn't their main objective. Making money by giving what the fans enjoyed with the OT was at the same time removing the recent prequels memory.
Actually, "Star Trek, the Movie" was clever and the reboot through a
change in the timeline was a perfect ST solution to avoid canon and continuity problems that the ST prequels faced. STB was a horrible movie on every level.
"Exactly. That''s what I wrote."
So what? that does not mean it is a good film. Transformers is also clever marketing but do you defend those?
""More of the same" = recreating."
Recreate means to do it again but update it. As I said using similar(not same) themes, settings, vehicles (depending on how long after the original should dictate some changes in look and function but still similar in style), and last bringing back old characters. TFA does do that but then they take it one step further and nearly copies the plot beat for beat. It recycles visuals and worst the changes it does make are pretentious. Why not just make Jakuu Tatooine? why even bother making it a different planet if functionally and in appearance it is nearly identical.
"Visually, there was limited creativity..."
Exactly. Now you are agreeing with me and my arguments all of these things combined with some bad characterizations in the new characters is what makes it a bad movie. Extremely successful but bad, just like Transformers and Fast and Furious films. In a way TFA is like a really crappy cover of the OT.
"Actually, "Star Trek, the Movie" was clever"
I do not disagree. Star Trek I thought was a 'clever' reboot and enjoyed it at first. Which is why I did not say Star Trek was a shit movie I said Star Trek Into Darkness was a lazy rehash just like TFA. the first JJ Star Trek had enough originality to it to ignore, at least at first, how it showed no respect to the originals. TFA is more akin to how JJ did Into Darkness than the first Star Trek.
"It was incredibly clever marketing."
Exactly. That''s what I wrote.
I still won this argument so you don't get to pretend it was a different one.
"Recreate means to do it again but update it."
LOL. No, it doesn't have anything to do with "updating". There you go making up stuff, again.
Cambridge English Dictionary: to make something exist or happen again.
"some bad characterizations in the new characters"
This is our disagreement. I like the characters. I basically enjoy their chemistry and interactions. I like their psychology.
For instance, I like a good person (Kylo) desperately trying to be evil to win the approval of his evil mentor. I like that he's unhinged. Kylo was a perfect solution to a problem. How do you create another evil person like Vader? You don't and can't! Vader was a great villain who can't be outdone. The solution was to have a basically good person who wanted to be like his grandfather. Perfect solution.
I like the "sibling rivalry" between Hux and Kylo trying to outevil each other for Snoke's approval.
.
Once again, I never said it was visually creative, but understand why Disney didn't go that route and explained their marketing decision in the previous post.
I have had many problems with the Star Trek TV spinoffs and movies in the past years. I hope you don't believe that Justin Lin was a better director than JJ Abrams. Star Trek Beyond = Fast and Furious garbage filmed in the dark. All three films recycled the madman wants to take over the galaxy while destroying the Federation storyline.
Star Trek hasn't shown respect for the originals since Star Trek:Deep Space Nine. Exception was Star Trek:The Movie.
"I still won this argument so you don't get to pretend it was a different one."
hahahaha. "I won so shut up" how old are you? 10? You won nothing stupid.
"to make something exist or happen again."
Well webster defines it as: to give new life or freshness to. What was fresh with TFA?
I am not making anything up, recreate is more than just repeating everything stick for stick. If they wanted to do that they should have just reboot the entire series from fresh. Passing it off as a sequel meant it is NOT a recreation.
" This is our disagreement..."
Okay now you are arguing properly here. I cannot dispute what you like and do not like. You like the characters. I did not. We can argue on the merits of the quality now. I despise people that try to pass their opinion alone as true judgement. That is what you have been doing until this sentence. Now let us return to civility And I will refute why I think these traits you brought up are poor characterizations.
"For instance, I like a good person (Kylo)..."
There are things I like about Kylo, I agree I like the idea of a disturbed but powerful person that seems to have a good intentions but feels they will be more powerful if they reject that. I think the film does not exemplify this well and therefore just makes Kylo look inconsistent in threat and power. since he is the antagonist it seriously negates tension in the story. I would not call it a "perfect solution" could have been interesting if executed better.
Hux v Kylo relationship would have been better if Hux was a bit older and demonstrated more mental prowess instead of murderous insanity(ala Hitler). The way it was made both seem too weak and unstable.
To be continued... I hate the character limit.
"You won"
I know. Thanks.
You're so dumb that you don't know basic English.
It recreates the OT environment and continues the Skywalker saga.
You're very snobby. People in you life must avoid you.
"Sibling rivalry" dynamic works better when Hux and Ren are the same age. Star Wars trilogies were always about Hitler aka: a democracy becoming a tyranny.
"I know. Thanks."
You're a retard. you're welcome.
"You're so dumb that you don't know basic English.
It recreates the OT environment and continues the Skywalker saga."
Why is cambridge a more 'correct' form of english than webster? You speak English but apparently are unable to understand full context of the words you use.
"You're very snobby..."
Well to you I am being snobby because I think you are very stupid, and dense. So maybe by being 'harsh' I can shock you out of complacency and ignorance. but probably not. As far as I can tell no one in my life avoids me, in fact they bother me too much. I am more likely the one avoiding them.
""Sibling rivalry"..."
How many siblings do you know are the same age? unless they are twins. usually one reason for a rivalry is caused by age gap and seeking attention. don't get me wrong I do not like the idea I just thought it was poorly executed.
"Star Wars trilogies were always about Hitler aka: a democracy becoming a tyranny."
Well duh. That does not mean every evil character needs to be murderously insane as Hux was. It made it goofy instead of intimidating. Or maybe I just do not get intimidated by dweebs(Hux) and Emo kids (Kylo).
"Once again, I never said it was visually creative, but understand why Disney didn't go that route and explained their marketing decision in the previous post"
I agree, the route they went was the 'safer' financially. Going the easy (lazy) route guaranteed mass money. By giving a pass to it and making excuses for it makes it likely that is all we will ever get. why would a company risk money when they can go the easy route and make out big? Only if there consumers criticize the product compelling them to do better.
" I hope you don't believe that Justin Lin was a better director than JJ Abrams"
Nope, I think they both equally suck. JJ is a Spielberg wanna be but lacks all talent. which is why he sticks with the stupid mystery box gimmick it is all he has.
"Star Trek Beyond = Fast and Furious garbage filmed in the dark."
Beyond was every bit as bad as Into Darkness. Star Trek (2009) was a fresh take on the series, TFA was not a fresh take.
"Star Trek hasn't shown respect for the originals since Star Trek:Deep Space Nine. Exception was Star Trek:The Movie."
Agreed, but it is hard to pay the proper respects of the show in a movie. Movies call for more action and simpler stories, because it most apply to the lowest common denominator for maximum profit. That does not mean we should give them a pass when the quality even as a film is bad as it was with TFA.
"Nope, I think they both equally suck."
Disagree. Beyond was filmed so dark, I literally couldn't see most of the action. Some other fans on IMDB complained too, but it was assumed to be bad movie copies. I borrowed the library DVD and still had the same problem. Into Darkness may not be creative scriptwise, but at least I could see the thing.
I wasn't complaining about the Trek movies starring the original cast or Next Generation. I like those more or less. Some of the spinoff series distanced themselves from Roddenberry's original vision which is my complaint about them.
"Disagree. Beyond was filmed so dark, I literally couldn't see most of the action...."
You do now film cooler is only one aspect of a film right? Just because you think it was too dark is not enough of a reason to call it a bad film. You can criticize the color but your criticism here seems you just couldn't get you action porn so you hated it. Not saying Beyond was a good film, i thought it sucked but for more reasons than just the cinematography and lighting.
"I wasn't complaining about the Trek movies.."
I understand that. I like the films with the OS cast as well. The point I was making though is all the Star Trek films focused more an action than the series did. That did not make them 'bad' per say but they certainly did not keep the 'spirit' of the series in the films.
this is a fail
share"You made my point by your not knowing anything ..."
I know plenty about deflectors and attack positions (formations). These things were not brought up in ANH, so for story telling purposes it is completely irreverent. He does not demonstrate understanding of anything he is doing, but he knows enough about flying he is able to 'wing it'. this is implied and only an idiot would not understand it. I one pretending it is a plot hole in order to sell their agenda that ANH is a plot holed as TFA and therefore TFA should be exempt from criticism.
" A civilian vehicle wouldn't have deflectors, genius"
Oh really, because every spacecraft in star wars, including transport ships and smuggling vessels had deflectors. So we just make stuff up to suit our arguments now i see.
" Luke also knew how to do a military formation in the ship which is ridiculous."
In what way does the movie demonstrate he knows military formations?
"The T-16 and X-Wings don't look anything like each other - "
appearance has no affect on determining how similar the controls for the 2 craft are. and in the film no T-16 is shown, so the audience can assume they are similar as the dialogue implies.
"Luke was still able to survive while seasoned military pilots died. Not credible, but that doesn't bother you since you have a double-standard."
Hey idiot, that is because they were sacrificing themselves so Luke could get the shot off, because he was the point man. There was another seasoned pilot that completed the trench run but missed the shot, demonstrating that it could be done. Luke just got saved and had the force helping, not doing it all for him like Rey has. It is not a double standard, the Force helped Luke succeed on his already possessed skills, Rey is seemingly possessed by the force and does not control her actions and is gifted abilities she had no prior training or experience with, even if something similar. Giving Rey a pass on everything is the double standard
Now you're just repeating yourself.
Deflectors and attack positions were brought up at the start of the attack on the Death Star. Your memory is faulty. Luke is in military formation during that scene. Its something that's practiced - not inborn. Porkins did not "sacrifice himself" for Luke. You make every excuse for Luke. Double standard.
It is not something that luke ever brought up and as I stated already Deflectors were common on every type of vessel including smuggler cargo ships. Common enough for anyone with piloting experience to be familiar.
Now the attack positions I will give you a little on. He only a few times broke his position but given this was his first battle experience he did exceptionally well with no military practice. However he still nearly crashed twice and was almost shot down twice. So he really did not do that well. Certainly not as well as Rey did her first time flying the falcoln. In a cargo ship she was out maneuvering fighters. Tell me one thing Luke does in ANH that can match that.
I was not talking about Porkin's, I was talking about Red leader and Biggs. I am not making excuses for Luke. You are giving Rey a free pass because she is a girl and fit you bizarre fan wish fulfillment. you are prejudice and demonstrated you are the one that is applying a double standard
You're wrong about the deflectors. Obviously, you didn't know that Lucasfilms always publishes detailed layouts of their vehicles from the movies for the fans.
T-65B X-wing starfighter:
Shielding is Chempat "Defender" deflector shield generator
It also has hyperdrive, Taim & Bak KX9 laser cannons, Krupx MG7 proton torpedo launcher and Proton torpedoes
T-16 skyhopper:
No deflectors and only and only a Pneumatic cannon
To say both vehicles would be exactly the same makes no sense. Obviously, the more sophisticated T-65B has more controls on its dashboard, so how would Luke even know what they were or how to find them if he never flew it?
Rey was having problems flying the Millennium Falcon at first too, but you conveniently don't take that into account.
First off all I never said they were the same. second of all the film implies they were similar enough for Luke to be able to 'be okay' which is all he was. Third of all, I really do not give 2 shits what other published things say, I have never read a star wars book and have only played an occasional game. All that matters is what is in the film, that is how I judge a film by what is in it alone. if you bring in outside material you are no longer judging the film based on its own merrits. ANH is perfectly fine even if with some minor plot holes on it own. TFA is not it requires both previous knowledge, knowledge yet to be revealed in future films and even canon book and comic material to support it. So it fails as a film and you fail as a judge of it because you do not separate that outside material. Your judgement of the film was predetermined before you saw it, so no matter what was in the film you would grossly support it. Just like people did with TPM until AOTC came out and was just as shitty.
"Rey was having problems flying the Millennium Falcon at first too, but you conveniently don't take that into account. "
OH come on now, she struggled for literally less than 10 seconds than was pulling off stunts even trained fighters could not do in a fighter craft much less a smuggling vessel. Cinematic-ly it would have made more sense for her to not struggle at all at first which would imply she was a very competent pilot. The fact she struggles than overcomes that struggle with little effort adds to her Mary Sueness. It was all lazy film making. By defending it you make it more likely that is all the audience will ever get.
"I stated already Deflectors were common on every type of vessel including smuggler cargo ships."
Your arguments are based on making things up in your head which is completely irrelevant. My argument is based on what the creators of the movie said. BTW, why are you bragging about not reading books?
"...Mary Sueness..."
And there it is! Obviously, you hate strong woman and that is your true problem with the film. A female beat a guy. Twice. Boohoo, misogynist!
No, does Han's ship not have deflectors? why would a smuggler ship have deflectors if they were not common on all types of craft. Granted luke did not recognize them in the Falcoln because he was not familiar with that type of vessel and it showed. He was however familiar with a vehicle the film suggest is similar to an x-wing. Does it say it, no; but it is implied. But the fact that Luke is out of his depth in the falcoln is an example of why he is not a Mary Sue in the same way Rey is, and why Luke is a well written character and Rey is not.
" BTW, why are you bragging about not reading books? "
I did not say I do not read books, I said I do not read star wars books. Sorry but that is a few levels below were I am in reading, I read Malrowe, Milton and Goethe for fun; this is some of the most complicated literature that we have available in English. I tried to read Chaucer in middle english but it is not similar enough to current or even Elizabethan for me to understand so I just read him in modern English. But now which one of us is making things up in their heads
"And there it is! Obviously, you hate strong woman and that is your true problem with the film. A female beat a guy. Twice. Boohoo, misogynist!"
And there it is! Obviously you are a retard that has no idea that Mary Sue is a writing trope that applies to both men and woman equally. I hate Dominic Torreto in Fast and Furious because he is a mary sue. I love Allen Ripley and Selene and Furiousa and they are all females that beat up guys. But they are well written characters that do not fit the criteria of a Mary Sue. Rey does, almost to a comical level.
" Boohoo, misogynist!"
Fuck off stupid. Mary Sue has absolutely nothing to do with sex. it is a sign of lazy fan wish fulfillment. You defend Rey because you are actually the one that is sexist. Giving a female character a pass on bad writing just because she is female is sexist.
Of course, when a male can fly a ship it's "implied", but not when a female can do the same. Double-standard.
"Your judgement of the film was predetermined before you saw it"
Actually, I saw it spoiler-free. I read the books after viewing it. The Disney books and DVDs are not as good as the Lucas ones.
"Just like people did with TPM until AOTC came out and was just as shitty."
That's odd.. You were defending the prequels as having good story-telling. You're all over the place.
"...Sorry but that is a few levels below were I am in reading..."
Snob. LOL.
Mary Sue is still a sexist term. Bigots always try to justify their bigotry. Become used to strong female characters in Star Wars. Or have you missed who is in charge of the franchise now?
"Of course, when a male can fly a ship it's "implied", but not when a female can do the same. Double-standard."
No, no, no. There is not a double standard here. Luke and other characters talk about him as a pilot; pretty much being his only skill, the entire film before we comes close to flying anything. Rey says she is a pilot and that is the end of her explanation. As I said, it would have been better if she took off with no further explanation and no difficulty, because then we could assume she had flown something similar or maybe even that one before. That was not the case though. and is also the reason why she is not comparable to Luke.
"Actually, I saw it spoiler-free."
imagine me smacking my hand to my head, that has nothing to do with ones predetermination of a given thing. One does not require 'spoilers' to have a predisposition for liking or disliking something. Maybe this concept is too complicated for you.
"That's odd.. You were defending the prequels as having good story-telling. You're all over the place."
I did not, i defended the pacing. but I will now defend the story, the prequels overall story is fine. it is the execution that fell flat. mostly little things like casting mistakes, poorly edited and crafted dialogue and script, a semi-self indulgent filmmaking.
"Snob. LOL."
Lol yeah Okay I agree it was a bit snobbish. also a bit of an overreaction to your suggestion that I don't read.
"Mary Sue is still a sexist term"
Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong. Can it be used as a sexist term? of course. Just because something can be used in a prejudice fashion does not mean the meaning is inheritance sexist. it is a matter of what context it is used in. For example the word 'monkey' is not inheritance racist but it can be used racist. Look into the history of the origin of the term and how it became used as a writers trope. Mary Sue in Star Trek was actually a satirical representation of abundance of fan fiction.
"Rey says she is a pilot and that is the end of her explanation."
Once is enough. Nobody but you needs to hear the same thing repeatedly. If you knew anything about script-writing then you'd know that is something to avoid since it doesn't move the plot forward. You're contradicting yourself by suggesting Rey should fly the Millennium Falcon perfectly since your complaint about her is that she does things "too well".
"One does not require 'spoilers' to have a predisposition for liking or disliking something."
It does with me. Maybe this concept is too complicated for you.
I don't have a personal problem with the Phantom Menace's pacing. But unlike you, I'm not in denial that critics and some fans complained about it.
"Can it be used as a sexist term? of course."
And that's how it is used. I've only come upon the term in reference to heroines - never heroes. My problem with the "Mary Sue" term is that it's being used to putdown strong, capable female characters. Male characters like Superman or James T. Kirk are fine, though. Whether you're aware of it or not, it's a misogynistic term. Other sexist terms: "Don't act like a sissy"; "You throw like a girl."
"Once is enough. Nobody but you needs to hear the same thing repeatedly."
It does if it is not part of her given background. Otherwise characters can have no limits and can assume abilities at the will of the writer. That makes it awful silly. For example, if she was shown to pilot something in her introduction or she was given the background of pilot AND scavenger, it would be sufficient.
"You're contradicting yourself by suggesting Rey should fly the Millennium Falcon perfectly since your complaint about her is that she does things "too well". "
That is not a contradiction. You do not seem to know what that word means. If she took off with perfect ability one can assume she has done it before. By her saying 'no one flown it in years' and that she 'had no idea' how she did it and that she struggled at first but than 2 seconds later did a complete 180 and could do not wrong was all bad development. and perfectly fits the definition of Mary sue: "overcome all obstacles with little to no effort". It just makes for a boring hero or heroine when they do not have to struggle to overcome anything.
"It does with me. Maybe this concept is too complicated for you."
So you are saying that by seeing a preview of a film or seeing a film in a series you love does not give you a predisposition. Well sir, you are a liar. Or you are not human. The whole idea with sequels and series is that people get a predisposition from the original. Maybe you do not understand what predisposition means.
"But unlike you, I'm not in denial that critics and some fans complained about it. "
AGAIN I WILL SAY, SITE YOUR FUCKING SOURCE. I am not in denial that critics and fans complained about many aspects of the film. Pacing was not one of them, that I saw anyway. You made it up to prove your point.
"And that's how it is used..."
Even if 90% of others used it that way, it does not mean that the term is inheritance sexist. I do not use it as such. I do not criticize strong female characters just because they are female. I listed many strong female heroines that I like or love. In fact, I think Rey is the only female character in an action movie I have ever criticized. And I mean ever. How would you explain that?
"Male characters like Superman or James T. Kirk are fine, though"
First of all I do not like superman because he is too powerful and that makes him boring. second of all, they are fine because their abilities never exceed their background. Why is that so hard to understand? if Rey had the background of a pilot that spent time in fighting pits and at the church of the force there would literally be no problem with her character's abilities. It is because her background was limited to being a scavenger alone that her abilities are called into question.
"it's a misogynistic term"
No it is NOT. It gets applied to male and female characters alike. It is a writing term that was adopted because of the satirical Star Wars Fan fiction Mary Sue, which was written in mockery of fan fiction that was wish fulfillment. Look into the history, it has nothing to do with females outside the character the term was named after. You argument is like saying Parkinson's disease is a misandry term because it was named after a man. which would be ridiculous.
"Other sexist terms: "Don't act like a sissy"; "You throw like a girl."
Lol. Fight on Social Justice Warrior. Fight on.
"Bigots always try to justify their bigotry. Become used to strong female characters in Star Wars. Or have you missed who is in charge of the franchise now?"
That is comical. Do you realize you follow up sentences about justification of bigotry is itself a justification of bigotry. Fact: You can be racist against whites and you can be sexist against males. Lack of self awareness abounds.
Actually many capable women studio heads is a great thing and is about time. If you're expecting the films to improve by having Rey become a weak character, then that's not going to happen.
Fact: You can be racist against whites and you can be sexist against males.
Let me correct you. Anyone can be bigoted or prejudiced.
Institutional discrimination is in the form of racism and sexism. In contemporary American society, white males still control the institutions. Example: It's like saying women in Saudi Arabia can be sexist against men. Not likely since Arabian women don't hold the power and are severely victimized by male sexism.
You may disagree, but in my opinion, equating the damage that discrimination has done to blacks and women with an individual's bigotry is very insulting.
"Actually many capable women studio heads is a great thing and is about time..."
Suggesting what? That women are more capable than men? If a woman is better she should get the job, not get it just because she is a woman. And by overpowering Rey to such a degree they negate all tension in the narrative, they made the films completely non-compelling and boring.
"Let me correct you. Anyone can be bigoted or prejudiced."
That is not a correction of my statement. It is a confirmation.
"Institutional discrimination is in the form of racism and sexism. "
Name one single institution in America that is sexist or racist. Seriously name one. If you name one I will fight it with you.
You are right Saudi Arabia is a sexist and racist nation. America is not.
"You may disagree, but in my opinion, equating the damage that discrimination has done to blacks and women with an individual's bigotry is very insulting."
This statement does not make any sense. bigotry is the thing that caused the damage that discrimination has done. the fact that at a previous time in America a majority of individual Americans had some forms of bigotry allowed the discrimination to take place. How would that be insulting to state these facts? I have been paraphrasing Ben Shapiro a bit here but guess what "Facts don't care about your feelings."
Consolidated response
Your sexism has influenced your opinion of Rey.
The term "Mary Sue" is used to intimidate authors from writing strong female characters. A few writers responded by saying they'll have their next main character be male to avoid the label since strong male characters are considered acceptable.
"Name one single institution in America that is sexist or racist."
The Government of North Carolina
http://thehill.com/homenews/333401-supreme-court-refuses-to-review-north-carolina-voter-id-law-report
You're racist, sexist and an ideologue. You must be a Trump supporter. LOL!
BTW, Star Trek Beyond had many problems. The most amateurish was to film the action scenes so dark that they can't be seen. 5th paragraph:
https://www.the
register.co.uk/
2016/07/20/
istar_trek_beyond
i_an_unwatchable_
steaming_pile_of_
dung/
"our sexism has influenced your opinion of Rey."
False. I listed many female action heroines I love. Rey is the only female action character I have criticized. That makes this statement incorrect. My knowledge of good or bad writing has influenced my opinion of Rey. You claim is false. provide some proof that I am sexist.
"The term "Mary Sue" is used to intimidate authors from writing strong female characters. "
Wrong. It is designed to keep writers in check from writing a character that only fits their wish fulfillment. You are totally ignorant of the term and it shows. It cannot be sexist because it can be used for both male and female characters. So you are wrong.
"The Government of North Carolina"
and now we are back to you being an idiot. Voter ID laws are in no way racist. you are racist if you think that other racist are so dumb they can't figure out how to get an ID.
"You're racist, sexist and an ideologue. You must be a Trump supporter. LOL!"
I judge people on the content of their character, Just as MLK wanted. I guess now a days that makes me racist and sexist, now imagine me roll my eyes. But also you are an idiot for thinking that racist, sexist and an ideologue automatically equals a Trump supporter. In my experience those against trump tend to have more racist and sexist agenda and rhetoric.
"Star Trek Beyond had many problems."
That has nothing to do with why Into Darkness was just as bad. I am trying to have a critical analysis discussion of story but your head can not get past, "it sucked cuz I couldn't see the action". Your taste is extremely shallow.
Your entire post proves my point about your bigotry.
"My knowledge of good or bad writing..."
You mean your opinion of good writing which doesn't make it a fact.
"keep writers in check from writing a character that only fits their wish fulfillment."
Keeps female writers in check. Of course, wish fulfillment of strong male characters isn't an issue."
"they can't figure out how to get an ID"
And you can't read since the discrimination goes beyond getting an ID. BTW, I gave you an example of institutional racism on a state level:
"The Fourth Circuit ruling said that the North Carolina General Assembly enacted legislation that restricted voting and registration in five ways, all which disproportionately affected black voters."
"I judge people..."
I doubt you consider blacks or women people. Enjoy Trump's impending impeachment and imprisonment.
"I am trying to have a critical analysis discussion of story..."
Once again, that's only your opinion. Enjoyment of a movie is subjective like all art. Stop assuming everyone can only have your opinion or they're stupid.
"Your entire post proves my point about your bigotry."
This just proves you are not paying attention to my argument and are unable to discern my meaning. And because you are ignorant you cast false labels of sexism in an attempt to deflect the argument away from the fact you are an idiot.
There is more to giving credit of good and bad writing than just one's opinion. There is actual criteria otherwise I could say Transformers is the best written story ever and no one could dispute it. We judge value on merits of quality. Not just on if we like it or not.
The rest of your points or so baseless and without evidence that I am not going to waste my 'breath' explaining exactly how and why you are stupid and have no idea what you are talking about. But I will address this one:
"Once again, that's only your opinion. Enjoyment of a movie is subjective like all art."
Yes I agree 100% enjoyment is subjective. Quality is not. You can enjoy something of poor quality. But don't try telling me that shit tastes good because you like it. for me shit will never taste good. The quality of the writing of TFA was bad. plain and simple. If you liked it, that is fine. Stop defending it like it is not shit though.
"Stop assuming everyone can only have your opinion or they're stupid."
I don't assume people are stupid for having a different opinion or even a completely different perspective than my own. I do assume they are stupid when they can not give good reason or appropriate explanation of how they came to that conclusion. You failed to give a convincing argument but argue like you are 100% correct. That makes you stupid.
Your previous posts with sexist and racist rhetoric told me what you were.
"for me shit will never taste good." Obviously, it does since you believe Transformers is the "best written story ever". LOL. Formulaic tripe! You just lost the little credibility you had left.
Since you were too cheap or poor to pay for Force Awakens and probably downloaded it illegally, I'm going to assume the same re: Transformers. What a loser you are!
"Your previous posts with sexist and racist rhetoric told me what you were."
There was no sexist or racist rhetoric, you just were too stupid to comprehend my arguments so you resorted to casting false labels.
"Obviously, it does since you believe Transformers is the "best written story ever". "
Way to take that out of context. I said if we went off your type of argument than I could say it is the best written story; which it is obviously and objectively not. Pay attention; I was just giving an example for comparability and not actually voicing my opinion. I actually hate the transformer films and think they are every bit as TFA.
This just shows how little you pay attention and fill in the gaps with whatever you want. Explains why you like TFA so much.
"Since you were too cheap or poor to pay for Force Awakens and probably downloaded it illegally, I'm going to assume the same re: Transformers. What a loser you are!"
Well your assumptions are wrong again. I did not see it in theaters because at the time my son was only 3 months old and we did not have a baby sitter. So a friend brought it over to use on DVD when it came out.
Transformers I have only ever seen on TV when others were watching it.
making assumptions about people is not your strongest skill. I would recommend stop doing that until you get a little better. Not likely to happen though because deductive/inductive abilities is a sign of intelligence. of which you have none.
A real Star Wars fan wouldn't wait 4 months to see Force Awakens. You're full of malarkey!
shareah now you are using the "you're not a real star wars fan" fallacy. You are pulling out all the non-arguments you can, sophistry master.
At the time it came out my son was 3 months old and we did not have a baby sitter, I was working 2 full time jobs w/ overtime and going to school full time. That is what real life is like kid, sometimes you actually don't get to see the things you want the moment you want them. You are obviously part of the entitlement generation and do not understand what real responsibility and accountability mean. No wonder you like Rey so much, she is your fantasy wish fullfillment. I am gonna laugh at you when one day reality smacks you over the head.
You're a bad liar. Do you even know what full time is? You=No job. Lives with mom. Real fan=see movie at release - even alone.
shareLol does the word 'projecting' mean anything to you? haha
My Truth: My mom was an abusive alcoholic, I went into the military (marine corps) at 18 and have not lived nor depended on my parents since then. did 2 deployments and after I got out I have never worked less than full time job.
People that have real responsibilities can't always drop what they are doing to see a movie, no matter how much they love series. Maybe one day if you ever grew up and become an adult you will understand that.
Yet you have plenty of time for replies. Your math is bad or you'd know 2 full time jobs and overtime + full time school and homework/study = more than 24 hour day.
shareWell I am only working 1 full time job right now and it has a lot of down time. I am taking the summer off from school. So I have time to kill.
and obviously you do not know math. How many hours in a week. 168 hours. full time job 40 hours average OT call it 45 hours per job. so that would be 90 hours leaving 78 hours for school and sleep. and if you sacrifice sleep you can do it. I know because I did for over a year.
So now that we established you can't do basic math either, do you have any argument whatsoever to support any argument or any claim you have made? I have yet to see one. Not very smart are you?
One full time job is 8 hours. Two jobs is 16 hours each day. Add 2 or 4 hour class. Add over time and 20 hours homework & study. Now add commute, sleep, eating, baths, etc. Your lies are silly.
shareHAHAHa. SO the concept of working 12 hour shifts and having 8 hour turn arounds is completly lost on you. plus consider workign 7 days a week. Real people do this stuff all the time. ONly a pathetic loser that has never worked for real would think this impossible. You a fucking moron you are.
share"Was ANH slow-paced? "
Actually, it was. I'm not complaining - just stating a fact. There are even new viewers who can't watch it as the first movie because they become bored. Movies made now are forced to have more action and special effects in them then decades ago. A few years ago, they passed the script of the masterpiece "Casablanca" around and it was repeatedly turned down for being too slow.
"It is implied by Bond being a secret agent ...blah, blah..."
And it's implied that Rey is a survivor and has survivor skills. A young child dumped on a planet is going to attain them or die.
Your ego is being destroyed by a fictitious character.
Now, I'll answer some of your silly questions because you weren't paying any attention to the movies.
"why Anakin was allowed to race in the first place."
He was a slave, genius, he had no choice since his slave owner Watto made him race.
"How can Rey do the mind trick?"
If you're paying attention to the movie, then you'd notice that she only does it after Ren uses the mind trick on her. Repeatedly, he uses the Force against her, inadvertingly training (retraining?) her, then she then uses it back.
"Why does Finn rebel?"
It's not a volunteer army, he was taken from his parents as a child. He didn't want to fire upon innocent people. He already said he felt ashamed of what he was.
Where the hell did Poe go?
Poe said he was thrown from the vehicle and didn't see the vehicle or Finn so he left.
Why does R2 just wake up? Why is everyone looking for Luke, why is he even missing?"
R-2 wakes up when Rey arrives. I'll call the other questions spoilers..
Finally, Harry Potter.
This is how I know your attention span and/or memory is defective and furthermore, you can't read:
"if you mean to think that I am a Harry Potter fan..."
I never wrote you were a fan, several messages ago, I wrote that you should BECOME a fan.
"The movie is causing you a great deal of pain and grief... Life is short. Move on. Become a Potterhead."
"Actually, it was..."
Which is proof that modern audiences consider taking any time to build story and characters is slow. That is exactly why TFA sucks, it takes no time to build anything and just is faced paced action scene to faced paced action scene.
"And it's implied that Rey is a survivor and has survivor skills..."
And if all she did was demonstrate survival skills I would not complain. She demonstrates abilities and education that far exceed her background.
"Your ego is being destroyed by a fictitious character."
Ah here we go with the "you just hate her cause she is a girl" bullshit. I already said I like kick-ass female characters and gave a list of them. I do not like shit characters, and then hate even more morons that defend them with shit logic and made up points. you can go fuck yourself you little pansy ass cuck.
"If you're paying attention to the movie,..."
Again that is not how the force works and to think that Ren's jedi mind probe is equal ability to a jedi mind trick is a rather large stretch. So what she like is sucking the knowledge out of him like Rogue sucks other mutants powers?
"It's not a volunteer army, he was taken from his parents as a child"
exactly, stupid. "Taken as a child" meaning he was indoctrinated. He does not behave in any way like a life long soldier. I would know. Even a terminal lance does not behave like he does.
"Poe said he was thrown from the vehicle and didn't see the vehicle or Finn so he left. "
and went where? just stopped looking for BB-8? he figured "ah fuck it someone else will finish my mission for me". that is your defense for this? stupid.
"R-2 wakes up when Rey arrives."
Why? does he sense her presence? droids can feel the force too know?
"'ll call the other questions spoilers.."
convenient.
"Finally, harry potter..."
You suggested I would be better suited to something I have no knowledge of. It makes your point awful mote.
This is how I know you are massive beta cuck.
"modern audiences consider taking any time to build story and characters is slow".
I already addressed the pacing and exposition in a previous post. Fans complained about Phantom Menace.
"She demonstrates abilities and education that far exceed her background."
You're the one whining about not knowing what her background is so how can you say it exceeds something you don't know.
"indoctrinated. He does not behave in any way like a life long soldier.".
That's a stupid thing to say. Indoctrination only goes so far. You can't suppress individualism completely, nor the personality, desires, etc. When people are unhappy, they rebel. People born as slaves rebelled.
You're asking to be treated like an idiot because you need every little thing in the movie spelled out for you. Force Awakens is too sophisticated for you.
Once again:
"Poe said he was thrown from the vehicle and didn't see the vehicle or Finn so he left." and went where?"
To the same town that Finn went and got a ride back to base. Duh.
"just stopped looking for BB-8?"
Only a dummy like you would stay on the planet so that you could be recaptured looking for BB-8.
"R-2 wakes up when Rey arrives."
Every one noticed this. What's your problem?
"'ll call the other questions spoilers." convenient."
Just listen to Rian Johnson's interview if you can't wait for Last Jedi. It's not rocket science.
"Finally, harry potter..."
Watch anything that doesn't bring you so much grief into your life.
" Fans complained about Phantom Menace."
Source? I never seen complaints about the pacing in TPM. I never complained because I like story telling.
"You're the one whining about not knowing what her background is so how can you say it exceeds something you don't know."
How stupid are you? Her abilities exceed her given background as a scavenger. That is the whole point. Her abilities demand explanation but instead it is left as a lazily contrived mystery. How can you not grasp something so simple?
"That's a stupid thing to say. Indoctrination only goes so far."
People that are exposed to a way of life for a long period of time do not suddenly do a 180 and behave in a way that does not resemble it in the slightest. You are ignorant of people and cultures and have no understanding of how people work. It shows.
" Force Awakens is too sophisticated for you. "
Are you just saying things to get a rise out of me now. TFA is one of the stupidest, laziest movies I have ever seen. There is literally zero sophistication to it.
I am done. You are just too stupid to continue a discussion with and your lack of intelligence is become redundant.
" Fans complained about Phantom Menace." Source?
Now I know you're stupid and nuts. No one complained about Jar Jar Binks, Anakin's acting, "Yippee" or it not being fun? LOL.
BTW, the prequels are filled with plotholes, so I wouldn't call it great storytelling for that reason.
Rey scavenges for food, but she's a survivor and has those skills.
Man, are you dumb! In 1800, Nat Turner was born a slave in Virginia. In 1831, he led a slave rebellion. According to you, he could not have rebelled because he was a slave his whole life. You're completely clueless about the origin of movements and rebellions. You need to get out of your basement.
"I am done. "
Finally.
"Now I know you're stupid and nuts. No one complained about Jar Jar Binks, Anakin's acting, "Yippee" or it not being fun? LOL."
you Fucking retard, not one of those complaints has anything to do with pacing. pay the fuck attention to the argument you are making.
"BTW, the prequels are filled with plotholes, so I wouldn't call it great storytelling for that reason."
whatever you are an idiot.
"Man, are you dumb! In 1800, Nat Turner was born a slave in Virginia. In 1831, he led a slave rebellion. According to you, he could not have rebelled because he was a slave his whole life. You're completely clueless about the origin of movements and rebellions. You need to get out of your basement."
Was he talking like kanye west 30 minutes after he started his rebellion? I was not talking about his actions stupid I was talking about his character treats. Yes a slave can rebel but he still will only have the education and manuresums of a slave until he gets further and further from that life. same way some one in the military needs time to transition back to normal civilian life. I would know I was in the marines for 8 years and it took a hell of a lot to transition.
"Finally."
Ah so you just a dumb troll trying to get the last word then. Unfortunately for you I am stubborn and bored. And I hate to let stupid people think they win because they said the last thing.
"not one of those complaints has anything to do with pacing."
If you had a better memory then I wouldn't need to copy and paste my previous argument:
"So you want exposition and a slow-paced movie? Lucas did that with the Phantom Menace and you fans complained ad nauseam. Now you know why Disney went in the opposite direction. Sorry, you don't get to complain about this too."
"Why does Finn rebel?"
Your original question. You argued that someone indocrinated from childhood wouldn't rebel. I say they would and a real life example is someone like Nat Turner.
"Yes a slave can rebel but he..."
Blah,blah. Now you're going to try to change the original argument after I win it? I don't think so.
"Whatever."
Dumb response.
You were in the Marines for eight years but know nothing about the importance of training and repeated drills in order for reactions to become ingrained and not hampered by stress and fear during actual battle? Farmer Luke doesn't equal trained and experienced rebel.
Stupid = Watching a movie that you hate. That must be you.
"If you had a better memory then I wouldn't need to copy and paste my previous argument:"
You can't cite yourself as a source stupid. You made that argument no one else did.
"Your original question.... "
No, no , no you fucking idiot pay the fuck attention to what I am saying. Someone indoctrinated can absolutely rebel. But they do not suddenly start behaving in characteristics they have never been privy to. An indoctrinated soldier would not act or speak the way finn does even in a state of rebellion. it was ridiculous. Do you think Nat Turner was speaking in perfect english while he was rebelling? If you do, you are a fucking retard.
"Dumb response."
Couldn't get much dumber than the shit coming out of your head.
"You were in the Marines for eight..."
When did I ever say that? But lets take shooting for example, you know the best shooters in the corps were the ones that had been shooting their whole lives right. Training is important but if you already have similar experience you excel faster, usually. as is the case with Farmer Luke that had experience with something similar. Same way that a World War 1 pilot only had training on farm equipment. Not very much military training it when planes were brand new.
"Stupid = Watching a movie that you hate. That must be you."
First all I am not watching it, I am arguing about it. second of all I am arguing about it in a movie discussion board specifically designed for this type of dialogue. Right that is real stupid (sarcasm). Third of all, You suggest only those like a film are at liberty to discuss it. One that makes you a self important prick with delusions of superiority, second it is an attempt to silence detractors thus denying them the first amendment right of free speech. By suggesting I am stupid for my opinion of a shit movie you hope to silence my criticism.
I still have hope Star Wars can turn it around. but I have less hope when morons like you defend the worst of the films.
Plenty of critics and fans complained about the Phantom Menace slow-pacing. You don't appear to be much of a Star Wars fan if you're unaware of the reviews to the prequels and the complaints of fans over the years.
"Training is important but if you already have similar experience you excel faster"
Because moisture farming is exactly the same as flying a military space vehicle in combat? LOL.
You're stupid for watching a movie that brings you such grief and your "arguments" have been even stupider since they make no sense.
"I still have hope Star Wars can turn it around."
Not going to happen. Kathleen Kennedy congratulated Rian Johnson on his progressive attitude re: women.
"Plenty of critics and fans complained about the Phantom Menace slow-pacing. You don't appear to be much of a Star Wars fan if you're unaware of the reviews to the prequels and the complaints of fans over the years."
Again, cite a source. I do not ever remember hearing any legit critics speaking off "slow-pacing" you have to pull that information out because I am calling you out on it. That is how this works. You claim evidence, show me the source.
"Because moisture farming is exactly the same as flying a military space vehicle in combat? LOL."
No but apparently recreational T-16 piloting for a common pass time is similar enough to military vehicle to allow combat ability even if at a novice level.
"You're stupid for watching a movie that brings you such grief and your "arguments" have been even stupider since they make no sense."
How many different way can I put it, i only watched it once. i argue about it hoping that future installments do not repeat. What is difficult about that concept?
"Not going to happen. Kathleen Kennedy congratulated Rian Johnson on his progressive attitude re: women."
Yeah that is my fear and one reason I do not have confidence in the series going forward. I also will not be watching the film unless I see some good reviews. Though if you give a good review, i will know it is shit. lol
How did you miss all the bad reviews? And the whiners on IMDB? I still don't believe you read.
Google is your friend. Your definition of "legit critics" is probably some idiot on Fox "News" or Breitbart?
"that is my fear and one reason I do not have confidence in the series going forward."
So your problem is "Rian Johnson having a progressive attitude re: women"? I knew you hated women.
These boxes are beginning to look like the SW trash compactor. LOL.
"How did you miss all the bad reviews? And the whiners on IMDB? I still don't believe you read.
Google is your friend. "
I did not miss them. I just never saw one that criticized passing. Hell even plickett reviews by Redlettermedia did not discuss the pacing, as far as I remember and they practically break the the entire PT frame for frame. the PT had plenty of legit criticism but as I will say for the tenth time, none of it was about pacing specifically. so again. Site a source or shut the fuck up.
"our definition of "legit critics" is probably some idiot on Fox "News" or Breitbart?"
Lol, and let me guess your "legit critics" CNN and MSNBC. Oh yeah those guys are more credible that Fox or Breitbart (sarcasm). I personally trust no news source, if I am interested I was try to view multiple sources to get a clear picture of what actually happened. I will say that some of the editors on "the Daily Wire" I find reputable for the most part. They give facts and then offer a conservative interpretation of those facts. CNN and Fox immediately spin the facts to fit their narrative. MSM offers stories not news.
"So your problem is "Rian Johnson having a progressive attitude re: women"? I knew you hated women. "
Lol nice way to spin what I was saying. No, my problem is the new Star Wars filmmakers putting SJW and progressive agenda above coherent storytelling. District 9 had a progressive agenda but it put story first and that made it good and even compelling. That is not the case with the new Star wars.
BTW are you a woman?
"These boxes are beginning to look like the SW trash compactor. LOL."
Agreed. If we wish to continue discussing we may have to start a new box.
Just reply to an earlier one and it will go straight down.
Yeah, star wars has taken knew leaps and are trying to recreate it.
I think Luke training with Ben and with Yoda helped his training and made it seem real.
I think with Rey it was good they had her a mechanic and could fix robots.
I just wish that Han had flown the ship.
Also the last battle sequence was shabby as even a stormtrooper could fight like a jedi.
I don't think it's rey's fault just inconsistency.
Yeah but then if a new person comments like you do here, it might become difficutl to track who is replying to what.
"I think Luke training with Ben and with Yoda helped his training and made it seem real."
Agreed.
"I think with Rey it was good they had her a mechanic and could fix robots."
if that is all she was good at it would have fit her background and I would not criticize the character. She could then grew and train to become great at other things.
"I just wish that Han had flown the ship."
Han or Poe, since he had the background the rebels best pilot. What a waste a character he was.
"I don't think it's rat's fault just inconsistency."
"rat's"? If you mean Rey, the character was just poorly written, developed and acted.
Its sideways writing. I hate it. Yeah it may be the writing. Star wars can be inconsistent. It was like Pademe being there for Leia during the early years and in the prequel died in childbirth.
Its errors hard to explain.
The prequels writing was inconsistent for proper continuity with the OT. TFA was inconsistent with the rules and themes of the series. In my opinion that is far worst. But the creator was not involved so it make sense they got the 'feel' of star wars so wrong.
shareTrue. That is probably the same for the new films.
shareYup that is why I have little confidence in future films.
Disney is aiming for quantity over quality. And too many 'fans' are eager to be pleased, especially if a film is pandering not only to their nostalgia but also adding the bonus of being pleasing to the progressives (which in my opinion are the weaker minded that get taken in easier by lazy filmmaking and will continue to pay money to see it as long as it is PC.)
So you think fan pandering
in
a
way ?
"So you think fan pandering in a way ?"
Oh yes they were obviously fan pandering, which is not always bad. But they were also pandering to the modern PC mentality that is dominating the media and entertainment.
These targeted audiences was obviously the focus of the filmmakers, definitely more so than story crafting or even filmmaking. It was all about spreading the demographic as much as possible first. In my opinion this focus is what caused the film to be so bad.
"I'm a university grad and now work full time which is how I know you're a liar. BTW, You spend more time with me than your kid. He's fake too!"
Sure you are. What's your degree in "lesbian dance theory"? Gender studies? Also makes sense you a grad student, no wonder you are so indoctrinated and full of shit. I was in the military and have been to over a dozen countries before going to college. Having worldly experience made me aware of just how absolutely full of crap most professors and college learning objectives are.
You still do not seem to understand how basic math works either. Even though I broke down the math for you. It is fully possible to work 2 full time jobs with overtime and go to school at the same time. It just means you will sleep usually less than 4 hours a night. I know because I did it for over a year. Still not as bad as the Afghan deployment though.
Now about the time I spend here discussing. I currently work as a security systems monitor and if nothing is going on I have a lot of down time. I usually spend that time doing studying or homework but as I said, I am not in school right now.
BTW if I assume you are a liar and a fake too I could just say, you have never worked a full time job, you are not an university grad, and you are just a fat pathetic loser that is a 45 year old virgin that lives in his mom's basement. You probably wank it to Rey every night before going to sleep crying because no woman would ever touch you. Loser.
Rey is more believable than your Gary Stu lies about 2 full-time jobs (8 hours each day x 2) with overtime and full-time college (minimum 12 credit hours each week) with study/homework.
A vague reply won't do. I prefer details.
Let's start with Monday.
You wake around 6-7am. Hour commute to Job 1 at 9am. Leave 5pm. Eat dinner and commute to college course. 2 hour course 6-8pm. Commute to job 2 and arrive at 8:30pm. Leave at 4:30am in morning. Oops! You do overtime. Leave at 5:30 am. Arrive home at 6:30am. 30 minutes sleep. Up at 7am. Repeat.
A few questions:
When do you sleep? Several college exams every week so when are you studying and doing your homework which is minimum 20 hours extra? Times for college courses vary so how do you work out the elective schedule with your 2 employers? Chronic sleep deprivation effects memory so what percentage of exams did you fail? How come you don't know the difference between a grad student and a college grad?
Oh what a tangled web we weave.
When first we practice to deceive.
Why I know you're a lying loser:
Your math is bad.
You're jealous of a fictitious female movie character.
You have anger issues (frustrated with life?)
Your anti-higher education comment
Trump supporter (most are uneducated, stupid, underemployed/jobless, desperate)
You're still spending more time with me than your (fake) kid.
Too cheap to pay for a movie
Slacker at work. Not paying attention to monitor. I hope nobody's life is at risk.
There is little point trying to use logic on some of these people - they refuse to accept the truth.
shareWell considering this person keelai can't even accept basic math how can you expect them to accept something as philosophical complex as the concept of "truth".
Than again since you were responding to keelai's post I assume you are on her side of the aisle. But of the 2 of us in this discussion only one has ignored facts, numbers and statistics. so which one is more likely to also ignore truth?
"Rey is more believable than your Gary Stu lies about 2 full-time jobs (8 hours each day x 2) with overtime and full-time college (minimum 12 credit hours each week) with study/homework."
How about if you work 12 hour shifts and 8 hour turn around? every think about that. It is more believable because people actually do it. No one can do what Rey does even within the fictional universe. I am not the only one that has done stuff like this. My step-father worked 3 jobs, 2 full time and 1 part time most of the time I was growing up. So again, even after I broke down the actual hours in a week you still refuse to accept what is fully possible. You are obviously very stupid so that would explain your blind acceptance of rey.
"A vague reply won't do. I prefer details."
Okay, job 1 was 0600 to 1800 on Monday and Tuesday Class was online or Monday and Tuesday night usually around 7 but it changed as the classes did. Usually 2 - 4 hour classes when in class.. Wednesday and Thursday was Job 1 0600-1400 and job 2 was 1600 to 2400. Friday was Job 2 1200 to 2400 and saturday was class in the morning and job 1 and 2 possible overtime, which happened quite often. Sunday was job 2 between 02 and 04 till about 12 it fluctuated. in the afternoon i was still available for overtime. This changed quite often because some of it was swing shifts and my schedule also changed as my schooling did. But it was always 2 full time jobs, never dropping below 40 hours each and often had overtime plus school which was mixed between online and on campus. Is that detailed enough for you, stupid? I like how you do not even take into consideration working nights and weekends at all in your breakdown or the ability to do classes online now. My, your thinking is narrow.
....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DorVltB6z0
Slackers barely work one job; therefore I still don't believe you.
more ad hominem. You can't argue can you? so you just try to use character attacks, and poorly at that.
shareYou're slacking off on your only remaining job again. What happened to your second full-time job with overtime and your full-time college courses? (Rolls eyes)
I feel the need to call Child Protective Services for your neglected "son".
I quite my second job about a year ago. I am taking the summer off from school because in about a month I am traveling out of country with my family. Doing full time school is kind of tough when you are not going to be in the country for a few weeks.
"I feel the need to call Child Protective Services for your neglected "son"."
well fortunately I do not take him to work with me. and this is another ad hominem. You have yet to make a single actual argument on anything you have claimed.
""Oh what a tangled web we weave.
When first we practice to deceive."
Only a fool would account deception for what could be explained by understanding. Remind me of which people are supposed to be the bigots? I thought it is supposed to be the "Trump Supporters" that were the bigots. BTW most "Trump Supporters" are not Trump Supporters. Just conservatives that are sick of you fucking retarded liberals destroying the country from within. I would tell you to go look at the actual unemployment rates, economic growth, and crime rates under Obama but you are too uneducated to actually see that what happened under Obama was one of the worst periods for this country in its history. but you probably don't know history either, except what google tells you. read a book you fucking retard.
"Why I know you're a lying loser:"
Lol you know nothing. It is obvious.
"Your math is bad."
Well than we have to change calculators to better reflect your feelings. My math is perfect stupid. How lost can you be in your own ass when you start to deny basic math and counting. you are probably a supported of common core math.
"You're jealous of a fictitious female movie character."
right I am not jealous of Ripley, Sarah Connor, Jyn Orso, Furiousa, or selene. somehow it is just Rey. that is strange.
"You have anger issues (frustrated with life?)"
Nope I just get frustrated when dealing with particularly stupid people. As my wife puts it "we don't tolerate stupid people".
"Your anti-higher education comment"
hahaha only a truly lost liberal with their head in their ass would consider "lesbian dance theory" a "higher education". I am for higher education in fields it is deserved. I am majoring in computer science. other hard science fields (ie biology chemistry etc related) are also appropriate. Not sociology, psychology, gender studies, humanities and arts. Those are a joke that in no way prepare people for the real world.
...
This is the second time you put down education.
You limit yourself and believe others are limited including Rey. Basically, you believe Rey is too knowledgeable. What is abnormal to you is normal to people who enjoy learning.
I'm not a computer science major, but I still know code because I taught myself. I created my own websites and a few apps. Drop in the bucket compared to many other activities I'm into for fun, profit or just to learn.
I know many real people you would call Mary Sue or Gary Stu because they know too much.
The economy collapsed under Bush: 3.5 million jobs lost; banking crisis; foreclosures.
Under Obama homicides down 13%
Violent crime down 16%
Jobs added 9,265,000
Unemployment rate down 5%
Long-term unemployed down 614,000
Real weekly earnings up 3.4%
Uninsured down 15.3 million
Learn to fact check!
BTW, a movie is an artform. If you hate art so much, then why are you spending so much time on an art-related discussion website?
"This is the second time you put down education."
That is because the things I was talking about I do not consider 'good' education. I think it is a joke. Almost all arts and humanities classes are breading ground for false information and liberal indoctrination. and provide very few applicable skills. That is why Math, science, history, law and technology are good education and arts, psychology, and humanities (gender studies etc) are not.
"You limit yourself and believe others are limited including Rey."
Rey is a fictional character.
" Basically, you believe Rey is too knowledgeable. "
Actually the exact opposite, she is too able without the knowledge. if anything this means I would have preferred the character if she was 'educated'
"I'm not a computer science major, but I still know code because I taught myself. I created my own websites and a few apps."
Funny I am a computer science major and happen to know building websites is rather easy, programming in html is some of the most straight forward programming I have seen. Try programming in C# or C++.
"I know many real people you would call Mary Sue or Gary Stu because they know too much."
That is not what a Mary/Gary Sue is. again you criticize the phrase and you still clearly do not know what it means.
"The economy collapsed under Bush: 3.5 million jobs lost; banking crisis; foreclosures."
'sigh'. Yes and it is a sign you have no idea of history or the state of the government nor economy if you think Bush is to 'blame' for the economic recession (not collapse). Only a fool would think one person is to blame for the economic state. However a lot of the 'patch' work Obama did was lazy and half assed and it hindered the economy from stabilizing and getting out of the recession. You clearly do not understand how the economy works. You probably don't even know what GDP means without looking it up.
Your deflection doesn't work. Your original quote:
"...Obama was one of the worst periods for this country in its history."
The country was much worst under Bush's recession. Period. Obama started the recovery.
"It is not something I support as a worthy of university study."
You're stupid if you don't know that you need a degree in order to get a job in the field and you still have to learn various working skills in college. You have literally no knowledge about any of the fields you're criticizing and you're a hypocrite for being on this site. Hangout on science.com
Architecture is art. So is industrial design. Would you trust a building designed by someone who had no degree? Everything is created/designed by artists: clothes, computers, phones, pens, magazines, music, movies, TV shows, books, jets, cars, advertisements that help businesses make money. Psychologists treat illness. You're saying they don't need training? You're too dumb.
"Under Obama homicides down 13%
Violent crime down 16%"
That trend has been happening since the 80's, learn some history and stop quoting figures from google. It is a small tunnel visioned version of the facts.
"Jobs added 9,265,000"
Extremely low paying jobs that many were unwilling to stay at for a long term
"Unemployment rate down 5%
Long-term unemployed down 614,000"
Labor participation rate also went down stupid. again look at all the figures and not just those that support your argument because you limit your knowledge.
"Real weekly earnings up 3.4%'
That is attributed to the earning made by those in the upper class making more and more. The middle and lower class was about 1.8% if my memory serves correctly. That is much lower than the last 50 year average.
"Uninsured down 15.3 million"
of those that now have insurance how many can afford $8,000 to $10,000 deductibles. and how many lost their insurance when their insurance companies went out of business.
"Learn to fact check!"
1. understand that 'facts' and figures can be manipulated to fit a narrative. Who is fact checking the fact checkers and making sure they are not subject to reporting biased information. 2. If you are going to fact check make sure you get all the facts available and do not stop once you desired agenda is confirmed.
"BTW, a movie is an artform. If you hate art so much, then why are you spending so much time on an art-related discussion website?"
I am for art in the state as a form of entertainment and hobby. It is not something I support as a worthy of university study. art is art and creativity. This does not have a place in real formal education because it acts more as a distraction than a benefit. How many college students take film history instead of economic, how many take art history instead of business law? I am for the arts, I find them fascinating and I enjoy reading the history of it. That is where it belongs though as an individual interest.
Just the opposite. People who have the highest critical thinking skills are creative types and intellectuals. That's the reason why communists and other authoritarians throw them in prisons or execute them. Artists/writers etc. tend to be non-conformists and aren't easily brainwashed by groupthink.
You're overgeneralizing about websites. Most sites use different languages and need to be optimized against attacks. I have tried coding in C#, but Java is good enough for apps so that's what I used.
Computer science jobs are notoriously outsourced. So much for your "good education". I also run a few side businesses (reason for the websites). When I needed help with a code snippet, I only hired foreign workers. They're cheaper.
BTW, multi-billionaires like Spielberg and Lucas are laughing at your stupidity about the arts.
Rey is able because she has knowledge, slacker.
Your ignorant quote:
"I would tell you to go look at the actual unemployment rates, economic growth, and crime rates under Obama but you are too uneducated to actually see that what happened under Obama was one of the worst periods for this country in its history."
And I proved you were wrong with actual facts since the country was worst under Bush.
You can't relate to knowledgeable people because you're not one which is why you're having a problem with the Rey character.
"Just the opposite. People who have the highest critical thinking skills are creative types and intellectuals. That's the reason why communists and other authoritarians throw them in prisons or execute them. Artists/writers etc. tend to be non-conformists and aren't easily brainwashed by groupthink."
hahahah omg you are so incredible ignorant it is astounding. you have not studied history at all have you? more just making up history to fit your narrative.
"You're overgeneralizing about websites. Most sites use different languages and need to be optimized against attacks. I have tried coding in C#, but Java is good enough for apps so that's what I used"
you have never programmed anything in your life. You are a liar that lives in his mom's basement and has a few coder friends that you used to play WOW with but they grew up and got real jobs leaving you behind. see I can do it too.
"I also run a few side businesses (reason for the websites). When I needed help with a code snippet, I only hired foreign workers. They're cheaper."
You have no businesses and you have never hired anyone. You are full of shit. does this sound familiar. if you ran a business you would not have time to waste with your retarded nonsense here. I have an excuse for why I have the time. What's yours?
"BTW, multi-billionaires like Spielberg and Lucas are laughing at your stupidity about the arts."
so the .0000000001% that find success in it make up for all the rest of the 99.999999999% that fail miserably and have to get shit jobs for the rest of their lives? Yes sometimes one can find success in the arts. But that does not require a college education in it. If one wants to pursue it as a hobby or even non-college related skill schools want to offer paid classes in film's and arts I would support it. I do not support it as part of the formal education which should be reserved for real world studies.
"And I proved you were wrong with actual facts since the country was worst under Bush."
Lol i say it here (point to one ear) it comes out there (points to the other ear). I refuted your so called "facts" with the real world interpretation and all factors taken into consideration and proved just how non credible your sources and understanding of even the 'facts' you presented actually are. Things actually with everything considered got better under Bush until the recession and after a high peak we experienced in the 1990's a recession was projected and unavoidable. This is how a capitalism economy works. But what is supposed to happen is after a recession the economy 'recovers' within a few years and usually becomes stronger. It didn't this time. It plateaued because the socialistic interference by the Democrates that were in power at the time. Let me ask you, have you ever taken an economy class in your life?
"You can't relate to knowledgeable people because you're not one which is why you're having a problem with the Rey character.:
Okay tell me this than you fucking retard, since Rey was so knowledgeable tell me where did she get her education? Since you respect education so much, what was Rey's? if she did not get education how was she so knowledgeable? my, my, my; hard to keep you arguments together when you have no consistency of thought isn't it. but I understand. You are liberal logic and consistency are not part of your agenda so it is justified for you to ignore it.
Did you get flagged by a moderator? if not how the hell did you not get flagged considering you are the one being accusatory and throwing falsities in the guise of petty insults. The second I turn it around and call you a liar I get flagged. freaking nice.
shareconsolidated:
Flagged? Unlike you, I can express myself without cursing.
"...got better under Bush until the recession"
Very selective of you to want to ignore one of the worst recessions in American history. Your comment "...Obama was one of the worst periods for this country in its history" doesn't hold up. Your excuses don't change the fact that you're wrong.
Obviously part of Rey's ability originates through the all powerful Force awakening within her. There's a reason the movie is called, "The Force Awakens". Someone observed that Rey herself was surprised by her Force-assisted abilities like flying the ship and shooting a gun so well.
The other stuff isn't as major as you're making it out to be. Anyone can learn a language or make a repair. Your problem is that she's not a male.
Your denials re: critical thinking skills are meaningless since insults aren't a persuasive argument.
My businesses run without me. I recommend "The 4-Hour Workweek" written by Timothy Ferriss for you. Work smarter, not harder.
You obviously know nothing about commercial art, architecture nor industrial design since you're unaware that employers want a degree from an accredited university. You're stereotyping all artists as painters aka Fine Artists.
Medium graphic designer salary 50k; architect 76k, art director 89k. How much are you making?
You're ignorant about the power of words. "The Feminine Mystique" inspired the Women's Movement, "Uncle Tom's Cabin strengthened the abolitionist movement, "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus" saved marriages, and even a comedy show like "Happy Days" inspired people to get library cards.
1.5 million IT jobs go to foreign workers:
http://www.pbs.org/to-the-contrary/watch/7433/-an-encore-presentation_the-controversy-over-h-1b-visas
I'm beginning to doubt you're in college at all since you don't appear to have any ambition.
"Flagged? Unlike you, I can express myself without cursing."
No you just use full out character attacks to undermine my arguement, hence why you insist on calling me a sexist for not liking Rey and continuously insist I am a liar. IMO opinion that is far more indecent than a few curse words. I did not attack you in such a manner outside calling you an idiot and then explaining exactly why your arguments sucked and led me to that conclusion. I suppose a more appropriate, less insulting way would be to say you have poor reasoning but you did not seem mentally sufficient enough to grasp what that meant.
"Very selective of you to want to ignore one of the worst recessions in American history. Your comment "
I am not commenting on politics anymore, that is one of the reasons I was flagged. obviously the moderators are liberal leaning a targeted me, which is why though you were guilty of the same reasons I was flagged you did not get a private message. Easy to think you are right about a liberal perceptive when the media and social media confirm your bias on a daily bases.
"Obviously part of Rey's ability originates through the all powerful Force awakening within her."
That does not explain how she uses full force abilities without training. All other 6 movies and all other stories within the star wars universe have demonstrated that training was needed to use these abilities, no matter how strong in the force one was. All the force was good for without training was faster reflexes and intuition, and maybe an ability to grasp complex skills faster and better than others. Anakin nor Luke could force pull, lightsaber fight and certainly not mind trick anyone without training.
"Someone observed that Rey herself was surprised by her Force-assisted abilities like flying the ship and shooting a gun so well. "
This is another example of poor writing. The fact she does not know how she is doing this also underminds the nature of the force....
... The force has never been something that takes over someones body and has them completely out of control.
Luke: You mean it controls your actions?
Obi-wan: Partially. But it also obeys your commands.
"Anyone can learn a language or make a repair. "
try learning a language that no one around you uses. Also as a human try to learn to speak and interpret audible binary. No not anyone can do it.
"Your problem is that she's not a male"
Again I am gonna call you an idiot for this. You have no proof of this claim and still have not disputed how I like Jyn Erso but I somehow dislike Rey because I am sexist. You are full of shit and insultingly so. prove that I am sexist you fucking pathetic loser, or stop claiming it as proof of your argument. This is a pathetic character attack and I cannot believe these limp dick moderators flagged me and not you. god, you shitty arguments can really piss me off.
"critical thinking skills are meaningless since insults aren't a persuasive argument."
Neither are lies and character attacks. which you started. AFter you suggested I was sexist for not liking Rey I called you an idiot for your sophistry. Maybe you are not aware that by calling someone a sexist without any proof you have insulted them. So whom was the one that throw the argument into the realm of insults. At least I gave justification for why I thought you were an idiot.
"My businesses run without me."
sure they do, that is why almost every small business owner I have ever met works twice as hard and long as his employees. Nope you must've figured out somethink no one else has. seems if you mastered this you would be successful to waste time on a movie discussion board.
"I'm beginning to doubt you're in college at all since you don't appear to have any ambition."
You know what, I am done reasoning with you. From now on nothing but character attacks.
You don't own a company, you never finished high school and you live off government welfare. Therefore everything you say is bullshit because you're a pathetic idiot.
BTW this is an example you what you are doing but hiding it with 'choice' wording because you are to cowardly to actual say full out what you want to say. And that is rather pathetic because this is a anonymous movie discussion board. I can't imagine just how pathetic you must be in real life. and also to the moderate that reads this, if you do not flag Keelai for there insults but flag me again, then go fuck yourselves.
consolidating:
I originally took offense when you called EVERYBODY who enjoyed Force Awakens stupid because you didn't like Rey's abilities. Only you are right and millions of others are wrong?
I call you sexist because:
1) Your use of the derogatory term Mary Sue (my supporting argument in past posts)
2) double-standard inconsistent criticism of Rey; but you allow male characters to repeatedly get a pass (reference my previous posts for examples)
3) denigrating women studies (you like history as long as it's not women's)
4) Derogatory comment re:women studio heads
5) Your likeable female protagonists tend to be dead.
What makes you think Rey wasn't trained?
Re:Your Force-assisted abilities complaint - that's foreshadowing. Excellent writing. Adds suspense. Who is she? Pay-off in next movie. Can't wait.
The Force is working through Rey in the same way it worked through young Anakin when he was able to podrace or fly that ship destroying the droid army's ship.
Can we both agree that Midi-chlorians was a horrible concept? What was Lucas thinking? Nothing wrong with keeping The Force mystical.
You have a problem believing Rey can understand a droid? Really? Audible binary is like Morse code. Or like the Khoisan click language. Completely comprehensible. If that's your only argument, then it's weak.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6WO5XabD-s
Force Awakens is a Disney movie aka child's movie. This isn't the best place to curse so don't blame me if you don't know the obvious. I just read their standards - no mention of politics. Stop blaming everything on "liberals" and take responsibility for your own actions.
I don't believe you because you don't fit the profile and your work/school activities were very exaggerated.
Just create something and sell through a third party on the internet - very automated. That book I mentioned earlier has excellent resources on how to do it.
"I originally took offense when you called EVERYBODY who enjoyed Force Awakens stupid because you didn't like Rey's abilities. Only you are right and millions of others are wrong?"
that did not happen. I never called anybody stupid for just enjoying the film. I questioned specifically your reasoning in your arguments and they did not hold up to scrutiny. Unfortunately the conversation is right up above, you can read through it again. maybe you did not like my tone so you decided to start becoming insulting; i think it is more likely you did not like my coherent reasoning breaking you view so you became defensive. Humans have a tendency to become defensive when their ideology is threatened. If my arguments were poor you would not be threatened.
"1) Your use of the derogatory term Mary Sue (my supporting argument in past posts) "
You are ignorant. this is not a sexist derogatory term. it is a derogatory writing term that applies to both male and female characters. The fact you can't comprehend this shows you have a mind that is already assuming things are sexist/racist to begin with. Your political affiliation only confirms this.
"2) double-standard inconsistent criticism of Rey; but you allow male characters to repeatedly get a pass (reference my previous posts for examples)"
AGain i fully addressed how there was no double standard on my part but on yours. You are the one that wants to give Rey a free pass that applies to noone else. You brought up not one good example of a true double standard, when I demonstrated this in my retort you repeated you false claim of sexism being the route of my criticism which I had already pointed out was not. this is why your arguments were poor and insulting.
...
"3) denigrating women studies (you like history as long as it's not women's)"
I denigrated all gender studies, not specifically women studies. I like how you assumed it was women specifically I was referring to, again it is just showing how you are one jumping to sexist conclusions.
"4) Derogatory comment re:women studio heads"
I did no such thing. I questioned one woman's intent as a studio head, not all women. Same way I only criticized one female character. It is not valid to assume 1 criticism of 1 woman equates to a criticism of all women, it is faulty logic. You are obviously not into computer science because you have no logic whatsoever.
"5) Your likeable female protagonists tend to be dead."
Selene, Furiousa, leelloo, and Ripley are not dead. Sarah Conor and Jyn are but one died heroically and one died of cancer. and besides even if they were all dead so the fuck what. I like Maximus from Gladiator and he died. what the fuck does this even mean.
"What makes you think Rey wasn't trained? "
because nothing in the film shows or even suggests she was. Any thing that has been suggested has been basely speculation. Only future material will confirm, deny, or ignore such speculation.
"Re:Your Force-assisted abilities complaint - that's foreshadowing. Excellent writing. Adds suspense. Who is she? Pay-off in next movie. Can't wait."
When you say stuff like this I want to bang my head on the desk because it shows just how simple minded the modern audiences has become. Give the devil his due, JJ's mystery box gimmick works on the simple minds. Obviously you still did not watch his ted talk on it.
...
[deleted]
"I just read their standards - no mention of politics. Stop blaming everything on "liberals" and take responsibility for your own actions."
You brought up politics first. By suggesting racism and bigotry is route cause of all TFA criticism it inevitable lead to a conversation about politics because identity politics is a tool that is used in politics and what you were using on me.
"I don't believe you because you don't fit the profile and your work/school activities were very exaggerated. "
You know absolutely nothing about me, and nothing was exaggerated. I did not question your credentials or claims until you continuously suggested mine were false. That is an indecent way to argue. But as time goes on I do not believe you backstories either.
"Just create something and sell through a third party on the internet - very automated. That book I mentioned earlier has excellent resources on how to do it."
Like a ponzi scheme? is that what you operate? That would be believable because you seem like the type that would be okay with taking advantage of desperate or gullible people.
consolidated
Who do you consider Gary Stus in film or books?
Star Wars is a political movie (rebellions, evil empires, nazis, tyrannies, politicians, Senate hearings, armies, civil war, invasions, politics, etc.). Are you sure you weren't flagged because of profanity? I'm beginning to see ads now and profanity turns off advertisers.
You reveal a lot about yourself in your comments. Still not enough hours in the week to do all you say. Just doing homework and studying takes minimum 20 hours. I was doing homework at 1-3am in school. My friends had it much worst since they had multiple exams every week plus homework. And doing that when you're sleep deprived isn't credible.
There are many honest ways to make money using a computer. No need for crime. Create an app, a book, t-shirts, whatever and sell it. The author used to sell vitamins.
Ripley, Connor and Jyn are dead because of their weakness. I also notice they all rely heavily on men for their own survival. I don't know the others.
You should stop saying that Rey wasn't trained if the answer lies in a future movie.
Everything JJ says is basic filmmaking 101. Nothing profound. Hitchcock, Spielberg, Lucas or any other filmmaker on planet Earth has incorporated the same techniques in their own films.
"Who do you consider Gary Stus in film or books? "
the first one that comes to mind is Dominic Torreto from fast and furious series. The only criteria he does not meet is overshadowing established characters, because he was an original character from that series. Anakin kind of was as well with being "The chosen one" but again he was an already established character, just a young version. can't think of others right now but I am a bit rushed in my response.
"Star Wars is a political movie"
funny I thought it was a movie for kids. and you are wrong anyway, it is not political it is archetypal that used WWII themes for quick reference, so you could identify the bad guys fast.
" Are you sure you weren't flagged because of profanity?"
That is not the reason they gave, and I asked if that was the reason.
"You reveal a lot about yourself in your comments. Still not enough hours in the week to do all you say."
of course there is. especially if you are allowed to do homework at work. One of the reasons I kept my second job was because it allowed that. Not everyone had that advantage and still are able to do it. So the fact you can't figure out simple methods for how one would complete such a thing makes me doubt your mental prowess and problem solving skills. What I mean is, you can't figure out how it was done so you assumed it was not done. That is religious like thinking.
"Ripley, Connor and Jyn are dead because of their weakness."
Wow, just wow. That was not weakness, it was called sacrifise. You telling me all my marine brothers that did not make it died because they were weak? yeah you can go to hell, stupid. and sarah connor died of cancer off screen, how in the hell is that a weakness unless you count mortality as a weakness. I suppose that does not apply to Rey, she's invincible. That is pretty shallow to account a characters death as weakness. Some of my favorite characters, male and female, died at the end.
...
"You should stop saying that Rey wasn't trained if the answer lies in a future movie."
1. That would make that movie have a good explanation. it won't retroactively fix TFA. But if the explanation is sufficient enough, which I have never thought of one, perhaps I will end up liking the character in future films.
2. Even if she was 'trained' as far as we know it would not have been past her being around 8. She could not have been that well trained at 8 and than not 'rusty' from 10+ years of forgetting that training.
3. that 'training' might explain SOME of her force abilities but does not explain her other skills that the film neglected to give context to.
"Everything JJ says is basic filmmaking 101. Nothing profound. Hitchcock, Spielberg, Lucas or any other filmmaker on planet Earth has incorporated the same techniques in their own films."
Shows what you understand about filmmaking. and the stuff that Hitchcock and the others did was not filmaking 101 because they developed the techniques that became filmaking 101. What they did was new and revolutionary. JJ is a poor man's imitation of these greats. Like all he ever thinks of is the imagery he saw as a kid and redoes it like a 10 year old playing in his backyard. Absolutely derived off all creativity.
"Who do you consider Gary Stus in film or books? "
It is also worth noting it is hard to find an example of a Mary Sue or Gary Stu to the degree that Rey was one in legitimate fiction (film or book). Because examples this fitting of the definition of the writing trope only have ever existed in fanfic, at least to this degree they did.
I didn't ask about degrees of. Just name a few Gary Stus. You named 2 so far. BTW, you argued with me when I named Anakin as one in an earlier post.
shareMary Sue/Gary Stu is a writing trope which means it has multiple aspects to consider before the label can be applied accurately. As I said I have yet to see an example as blatant as Rey was in a legitimate (non-fanfic) fiction. So it is hard to compare to other examples when none as Rey exist.
I will try to think of a few others.
King Arthur is sometimes a Gary Stu in some adaptations, the 2004 King Arthur was close to one.
I have not seen it but from what I have heard in description Harry Potter sounds like he is close to one.
I am searching my mental data banks and not too many names come up. James Bond sometimes is, especially in the Brosnan era Bond. But the character is never inexplicably good because he has the background of a spy so even when outrageous it still can fit the background. Same thing with Jason Bourne, spy background.
Aragon and those like him are Paragon characters so they do not qualify as Mary sue.
I can't really think of others right now, and none of the examples I gave meet the criteria to the degree that Rey does, so it is not even necessarily justifiable calling the above examples Mary Sue/Gary Stu.
"BTW, you argued with me when I named Anakin as one in an earlier post."
I feel I need to elaborate on this specifically because you do not seem like the type that will understand that I answered it in my earlier response.
I did not argue whether or not Anakin fit the description of a Gary Stu (which he does not but does come relatively close), I simply argued he is not as bad as Rey. I did defend the character because he is not as poorly written as Rey, which is really saying something because Anakin in the prequels was bad.
the marks going against Anakin are 1. being the chosen one brought too much 'spotlight stealing' to his character over others. 2. he is relatively exceptionally good at pod racing and building things for how young he is.
That is about it for Anakin being even close to a Gary Stu.
Consolidated:
You said Gary Stu was as common as Mary Sue, but you haven't been able to name any Gary Stu's except the guy from Fast and Furious.
"that 'training' might explain SOME of her force abilities but does not explain her other skills that the film neglected to give context to."
For instance?
"JJ's mystery box gimmick works on the simple minds."
I repeat since your reading comprehension is low, "the mystery box gimmick" isn't JJ's. It's Filmmaking 101.
"But then I would not been 'awakened' to the great foolishness and mass gullibility of the movie audience. " "I never called anybody stupid for just enjoying the film."
Sounds like you did.
"You are the one that wants to give Rey a free pass that applies to nobody else."
Actually, I already wrote that I believe Luke and 9 year old Anakin are idealized characters. So are Superman, Kirk, Hercules, practically every superhero. But, you only whine about Rey.
Ripley died. I don't count the clone. Both Ripley and Jyn couldn't find an escape so they died. Weak characters are killed off in movies. You like weak female characters that depend on male characters.
You appear to have a problem differentiating between reality and movies.
YOU waste too much time to be studying or doing anything productive at work.
1977 Star Wars was not for kids. The target group and most of the moviegoers were teens and young adults. Other groups saw it too, but they weren't the intended audience. Lucas later targeted children for Return of a Jedi and The Phantom Menace which is why we have Ewoks and Jarjar. He didn't want young children watching Revenge of the Sith because of the slaughter.
Teens and young adults rewatched movies which is how Star Wars stayed in the theaters for over a year and became a blockbuster hit.
"You said Gary Stu was as common as Mary Sue, "
I never said such a thing. I said it can be applied to both equally. I never said they were as common. here is the thing too, Rey is one of the only female Mary Sues I can think of as well. so that shoots your claim to pieces.
"For instance?"
Hand to hand fighting, piloting skills, social skills, multiple languages (including droid and wookie), blaster skills, that is all I can think of off the top of my head.
"It's Filmmaking 101."
no it is not. go take a filmmaking class and tell me if it is there. if it is, my money says it is in the "don't do this" pile of bad filmmaking. give me another example of a filmmaker that has no story in mind when they use mystery. real filmmakers start with the story and then figure out how to make it a mystery. JJ does it backwards.
"Sounds like you did."
No i call them stupid when they can not come up with a good reason why they like it. if you had just said "i liked it even if it was stupid" that would be an acceptable answer. but you don't you pretend it is not a bad film then come up with crappy justification for why it is not bad.
"are idealized characters"
you have no idea what a "Mary Sue" is do you? because "idealized character" is NOT what a Mary Sue is. Go look up the definition. good we are arguing about something and you don't even understand it. I agree that Superman and 9 year old anakin are overpowered, but that alone does not make a Mary Sue. seriously go look up the definition before we continue.
"Weak characters are killed off in movies."
You are an idiot for saying this. I don't what else to say. Was Maximus in gladiator a weak character? were all the marines in Alien weak? was Tom Hanks a weak character in Saving Private Ryan? I could go on but I think you are too stupid to get the point.
"YOU waste too much time to be studying or doing anything productive at work."
How many ways I can say it, I'M NOT IN CLASS THIS SEMESTER!
Nothing you named is extraordinary.
Anyone growing up in a tough neighborhood would learn to fight for survival. It could also be a part of her early Jedi training. Remember, Jedi start training at the age of 2 years old.
Social skills? Her being normal? Now you're reaching. I know people with real social skills who were able to network their way into 6 figure jobs even though they had no qualifications. On the other hand, Rey was stuck with a crummy job and life.
It's normal to know multiple languages if you live in a multicultural community like Rey. Most people on Earth speak more than one language with many knowing several.
Any idiot can shoot a gun. Piloting a spacecraft is obviously common since “farm boy” Luke and “9 year old Annie" knew. Doing it well was obviously because of the Force assisting her. The same assistance happened with Luke and Annie. That should be clear because she was even amazed by how good she was at piloting and shooting.
Maz Kanata said to Rey, "That lightsaber was Luke's, and his father's before him and now it calls to you! ...Close your eyes, feel it. The light. It's always been there. It will guide you."
The lightsaber called to 2 Skywalkers and now Rey. The Force has always been there to guide her.
BTW, why don’t you have a problem with a 9 year old knowing how to pilot a starship, build a robot and racing cars? That's much more of a stretch than any thing Rey does.
It sounds like your problem is that YOU don’t understand the story. That doesn’t make it a bad movie. Just makes you a bit simple for not understanding a basic straight forward story.
No initiative to be productive with your time. And you're jealous of a fictitious character.
"Anyone growing up in a tough neighborhood would learn to fight for survival."
Source your claim here. In Afghanistan they carry around Ak-47 all day and none of them can shot for shit nor are they proficient at hand to hand. Survives and scrape pickers survive by running and avoiding fight. Cite something that says otherwise. otherwise you claim is baseless.
"It could also be a part of her early Jedi training. Remember, Jedi start training at the age of 2 years old. "
Which 1 she does not remember and 2. would have only done till she was around 8. and where does it say they start at 2? It does not state so in the movies, only that Anakin was too old at about 12 years old.
"Now you're reaching. I know people with real social skills who were able to network their way into 6 figure jobs even though they had no qualifications. "
Ever meet a loner scrap collector that gets thrown into a group of unfamiliar people and starts behaving like a fresh out of college young adult? yup I haven't either
"It's normal to know multiple languages if you live in a multicultural community like Rey."
What other languages were demonstrated on Jakuu? if she speaks wookie so flulently where was the wookies running around. and again, No one can speak droid which is why they needed translators.
to be continued...
"Any idiot can shoot a gun."
Lol I am a rifle and pistol marksmanship coach. You're an idiot, let's see you try to shoot a gun without proper instruction. I'd be impressed if you managed to not shoot yourself. Any idiot can pull a trigger. It takes training to be effective.
"Piloting a spacecraft is obviously common since “farm boy” Luke and “9 year old Annie" knew."
Then how come Luke didn't know what the hell he was doing in the falcoln? Luke only flew a craft similar to one he was experienced with. 9 year old Annie didn't know what he was doing either and had most of the flying done on autopilot
"Maz Kanata said to Rey, "That lightsaber was Luke's, and his father's before him and now it calls to you! ...Close your eyes, feel it. The light. It's always been there. It will guide you." "
That's not how the force works. Have you even seen star wars outside TFA?
"The lightsaber called to 2 Skywalkers and now Rey. The Force has always been there to guide her."
What the hell are you talking about here? in what way did that lightsaber 'call out' to Luke or Anakin? you will have to explain what you mean here because that lightsaber was just a weapon made by Anakin and then given to Luke directly by Obi-wan whom took it from Anakin. It in no way called to anyone except Rey. Nice when we can just make stuff up to fit our narrative.
"BTW, why don’t you have a problem with a 9 year old knowing how to pilot a starship, build a robot and racing cars?"
when did i say I didn't have a problem with it. it was stupid and difficult to watch, but it was explained in the film and therefore acceptable even if annoying. It also disqualifies him from being a Mary Sue because one of the criteria is being 'inexplicably good'.
"That's much more of a stretch than any thing Rey does. "
How so? Anakin works in a starship parts shop it is implied he takes part in the repairs. All that is implied by Rey is she tears parts out of junk and sells it. Not the same thing
"It sounds like your problem is that YOU don’t understand the story. That doesn’t make it a bad movie. Just makes you a bit simple for not understanding a basic straight forward story. "
It is not a matter of not understanding, it is a matter of the lead character being given a distracting amount of attention and being inexplicable good at everything and being immediatly loved by all those around here, and the script basically handing her everything without much challenges to overcome. this has nothing to do with understanding as much as the 'mystery' behind her being needed to explain her abilities and her importance to the narrative. as it stands now it is a big old "???".
"No initiative to be productive with your time."
screw you, I am on a break right now. and you are here talking to me so you also have no initiative to be more productive with you time at this moment either. so again screw you hypocrite.
"And you're jealous of a fictitious character."
explain how I am jealous. do you have to be jealous of every character you do not like?
Consolidated:
Oh, now you're a marksman, too? LOL.
Young children accidentally fire-off guns all the time. How stupid are you?
Afghanistan? LOL. I don't believe you were ever a marine since you don't know that they carry M16A4 rifles - not AK-47s. You can't understand a basic movie plot so I don't see you passing their ASVAB test. Anyway, I'm pretty sure at least half the women in my neighborhood could easily beat you up. I would literally bet against you in a ring if you fought any of them.
Obviously, farmboy Luke did know what he was doing since he took over the Falcon's weapons and was able to shoot down an enemy ship.
Annie flew the ship out of the vessel before it blew-up so obviously 9 year old Annie knew how to fly. What a hypocrite you are! Typical it's OK for a young boy to know something, but you become upset if a woman knows the same thing. Unbelievable!
Obviously, you really don't understand the movie and don't recognize direct quotes from it. If you paid attention to the dialogue then you would understand the movie.
Knowing that Jedi begin their training at 2 or 3 is basic knowledge. You're no fan!
So you know how the Force works better than those who invented it. LOL! You know it's all fiction, right?
Rey needs to recognize the parts in order to know what has value and sell it. Unkar Plutt could have easily trained her to get some worth out of her since she was dumped on him by her "relative". Once again, it's OK for a young boy to know how to repair "by just knowing" but you become upset if a woman knows the same thing. Hypocrisy much!
Living by yourself doesn't make a loner nor indicates that there are no social skills. What a leap you made!
The difference is I'm not at work and you are. The operative word being "work."
And I thought you were only pretending stupidity to be a troll.
BTW, I never cared if you didn't like Rey. Just the misogyny behind it. Admit you're a misogynist and we can call it a day. The truth will set you free!
"Oh, now you're a marksman, too? LOL.
Young children accidentally fire-off guns all the time. How stupid are you?"
Go back re-read what I said. "Any idiot can pull a trigger. It takes training to be effective." can't read very well can you? and young children accidentally fire-off guns all the time? cite a source please. and define "all the time". And yes I am a marksman, I was the battalion high shooter for 1/9 in 2010 missing the regimental record by only 3 points. i scored 345 the record was 348, out of a possible 350. Table one I scored 246 and table 2 I dropped only 1 point. . oh and I went through marksmanship coach training course and am a certified coach I still have my certificate in my wallet.
"I don't believe you were ever a marine since you don't know that they carry M16A4 rifles - not AK-47s."
Oh the local afghans carry M16A4? really must have missed were the US was giving them goverment issued rifles. and also shows what you know most of the time the marines carry M4. Mine was a M4 with a M203 attachment because I was fire team leader. again you are not a very proficient reader are you?
" I'm pretty sure at least half the women in my neighborhood could easily beat you up. I would literally bet against you in a ring if you fought any of them. "
Suggesting that most women are usually inferior to men under normal circumstances? wow that is pretty sexist of you.
"Obviously, farmboy Luke did know what he was doing since he took over the Falcon's weapons and was able to shoot down an enemy ship."
firing a gun turret does not equal flying the ship, stupid.
...
"Annie flew the ship out of the vessel before it blew-up so obviously 9 year old Annie knew how to fly. What a hypocrite you are! "
I did not say I liked it, i just said it was explanable in the film. he was a pod racer for 1, R2 and the autopilot did a majority of the actual flying and if you remember Anakin was getting trained earlier in the film. Remember the Queen's pilot showing him the flight controls and him saying "you catch on pretty quick". It is little subtleties like this that are important for development.
"Typical it's OK for a young boy to know something, but you become upset if a woman knows the same thing. Unbelievable!"
that has nothing to do with it. if in her introduction they had shown Rey flying other ships around or even showed her take off in the falcon without difficulty we could assume she was a competent pilot but that is not what happened. she does not know how to fly it then suddenly is a master. Same thing with all her other abilities.
"Knowing that Jedi begin their training at 2 or 3 is basic knowledge. You're no fan!"
lol now the "youre not a real fan" fallacy? wow you pulling all the non-argument stops out aren't you. I am a fan of the films. Name the place in any of the films in which is says they start training at 2 or 3.
"So you know how the Force works better than those who invented it. "
shows what you know. the person that invented the force was not involved in this film and in fact his ideas were adamantly rejected by the new filmmakers.
"Rey needs to recognize the parts in order to know what has value and sell it. "
does that mean you take you car to a junk yard dealer for repairs?
"Living by yourself doesn't make a loner nor indicates that there are no social skills."
Her whole intro scene was designed to show how alone and isolated she was. That is what the filmmakers said. and yes if you are that alone and isolated you develop bad social skills. this is just a fact.
...
"The difference is I'm not at work and you are. The operative word being "work."
You know what my boss does when nothing is going on? he plays games on his phone. I usually do homework and that is one of the reasons I stay at this job because 90% of the time it is boring with nothing happening. but like I said I am on a break from school right now.
"BTW, I never cared if you didn't like Rey. Just the misogyny behind it. Admit you're a misogynist and we can call it a day. The truth will set you free!"
You never bothered to explain how I am misogynistic when I defend nearly ever other female action character in existence. Rey is literally the only female character, let alone action character, i have ever criticized. How is this misogyny.
You know what I think. I think you have such poor reasoning for liking the character that the only defense you can muster is by calling anyone that criticizes her a sexist.
You know why don't we try this. I have given an abundance of reasoning of why I think the character is poor and why I do not like her.
Give me some reasons why you think she is a good character and why you like her. Instead of just trying to discredit my criticism by calling me sexist, justify your opinion of the character. I'll wait.
It's pointless for me to repeat myself since you're illiterate, stupid or both. Most of the answers to your questions can be found in my previous posts.
AK-47s aren't carried by the Afghan army.
Wow! You don't know the biological differences between men and women. I'm not surprised.
"Then how come Luke didn't know what the hell he was doing in the falcoln?"
Obviously, you're wrong since he did.
You're really clueless about Star Wars. It's common knowledge that a resource book nicknamed the Star Wars Bible has been used for years to keep everything (books, movies, TV series, games, etc.) canon.
Being alone doesn't equal not having social skills nor being a loner. Not the same. Sheesh! Making something up out of your head doesn't equal it being a fact.
I've become convinced that you don't have any job and I'm probably supporting you with my taxes.
You're the one obsessed with Rey. I have found inconsistencies in numerous movie characters, but you choose to only have problems with Rey.
My sojourn into your land of Idiocracy is over. At first I was curious, but now I'm saddened and bored by you.
I'll allow you to have the last word since I know it's needed for your very, very, very ultra-low self-esteem.
"AK-47s aren't carried by the Afghan army. "
Well I am gonna say you are completely wrong. Considering I was their for most of 2011 I am gonna go with what I saw with my own eyes. And also since I was involved in training The ANA I will take my experience over your stupidity and ignorance any day. Also the vast majority of non-military Afghans also carried AK.
"Wow! You don't know the biological differences between men and women. I'm not surprised."
Of course I know the differences. I was sarcastically pointing out your hypocrisy. I am not surprised you missed that. You miss alot.
"Obviously, you're wrong since he did."
Luke: "Why don't you out run them I thought this thing was fast."
"Are you kidding at the rate their gaining?"
"What's that flashing?"
Yup he obviously knew what he was talking about aboard the falcon. of course the movie says you are totally wrong but whatever facts are tricky things.
"You're really clueless about Star Wars. It's common knowledge that a resource book nicknamed the Star Wars Bible has been used for years to keep everything (books, movies, TV series, games, etc.) canon. "
Ah so I have to read the star wars bible to understand the religion belief you hold of it, that about right? I can't just watch the movies to understand. Of course that only applies to TFA because I followed every other film in the series without being religiously devoted but let's ignore that.
"Being alone doesn't equal not having social skills nor being a loner. Not the same. Sheesh! Making something up out of your head doesn't equal it being a fact."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/780399
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/upshot/how-social-isolation-is-killing-us.html
www.livestrong.com › Parenting
socialworkers.org/pubs/news/2016/06/isolation-critical-social-problem.asp
bmcpsychology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40359-014-0044-1
yup making stuff up the top of my head. I wrote all those articles too.
...
"I've become convinced that you don't have any job and I'm probably supporting you with my taxes."
if you actually pay taxes then you did pay my salary for years and continue to pay for my school and for my disability benefits. so if you are not a pathetic loser and actually do pay, than thank you. I would not have been able to buy my house without that extra benefit. But I also could not have bought a house if I did not have a job and make enough money to qualify for the VA loan.
"You're the one obsessed with Rey. I have found inconsistencies in numerous movie characters, but you choose to only have problems with Rey."
I am not obsessed, this is just the character we are discussing. She also is one of , if not the worst, the poorest developed and written characters I have ever seen. I did not 'choose' to have a problem with Rey, I just recognized the bad writing. So did my wife when we were watching it together so it was not just me.
"My sojourn into your land of Idiocracy is over. At first I was curious, but now I'm saddened and bored by you."
Ah lost the argument then and need to excuse to stop?
"I'll allow you to have the last word since I know it's needed for your very, very, very ultra-low self-esteem."
well since you could not answer even some of my most basic questions I will consider you a failure of reasoning.
you never answered these question: "how am I sexist if I like other female action character?"
"Why do you like Rey and think she is a good character"
considering these are rather simple and straight forward questions you could not answer I am going to assume have no reasoning for either claim.
I mean honestly you can't even answer 1 question.
why do you like Rey?
"Trump supporter (most are uneducated, stupid, underemployed/jobless, desperate)"
yes instead of understanding why a unpolished goofy looking celebrity that speaks like a narcissistic lunatic won the presidency just assume everyone of the 60 million people that voted for him are just as narcissistic and loony. I am sure that will inspire a democratic comeback in 2018. Or, more likely, you will alienate even more people by demonstrating it is actually you people that are bigoted, hateful and prejudice. Just like you are doing right here with me. your true colors are showing.
"You're still spending more time with me than your (fake) kid."
I spend plenty of time with him when he is awake and I am home. I would ask how you don't understand responding 2 or 3 times a week does not take me more than an hour in a week. But then you have already shown you do not comprehend time and numbers.
"Too cheap to pay for a movie"
Lol I said I was too busy, not too cheap. However yes I am too cheap to pay to see crap movies. I think only a fool would pay to see what they know is going to be bad. I'll leave that to you.
"Slacker at work. Not paying attention to monitor. I hope nobody's life is at risk"
Well, considering that within the last 2 months 2 employees that were considered lazy and stupid were let go. I have worked here for over 3 years. I must be able to just multi task.
"I must be able to just multi task."
LOL. What you call multitask, everybody else calls goofing off.
Well considering I was hand picked by my last supervisor to succeed him twice and that everyone around me treats me like I am the best at my job; I assume I can 'goof' off and do my job simultaneously. That is not saying much though, this job is rather easy. You just need common sense and good reaction time; and at least minimal abilities to problem solve. Honestly this is far below my skill level but it pays well until I finish school and start looking for stuff a little more challenging.
shareA slacker you are! I know because you have the mindset of one.
If you had ambition, you would be taking classes now instead of goofing off on moviechat with me. And you would begin working in your field either through college workstudy or starting a part-time business.
That's how I know you're lying about having many jobs, etc. No ambition. Hates education.
I'm beginning to think you don't have any job.
"A slacker you are! I know because you have the mindset of one. "
hey dumb ass would a person with the mindset of a slacker be this dedicated to pointless back and forth banter with a moron like you.
"If you had ambition, you would be taking classes now instead of goofing off on moviechat with me."
see my other post for why I am not in class this summer, it is because I am taking my family on vacation out of country for a few weeks this summer. To make up for it last semester I took 7 classes. and got straight A's. That ambitious enough for you?
"That's how I know you're lying about having many jobs, etc. No ambition. Hates education. "
you are a moron. Makes sense you a liberal. no idea what you are talking about, attribute everything to sexism and bigotry. Unable to back up any of your claims with facts or even logic so you just make shit up and throw insults. He fucktard if I "hated education" why would I be in college?
"I'm beginning to think you don't have any job"
I am beginning to think you don't have a life.
Rey will transmutate into Darth Hillary in SW IX, then slaughter the Deplorables.
shareMarvelous
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