MovieChat Forums > Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk (2016) Discussion > Contrasting the realities of war with Am...

Contrasting the realities of war with America's perceptions.


What do they mean by this? I looked up the screenwriter and the writer of the novel that it is based on neither have any military time at all. So as a Vet I have to ask "what the hell do they think they know I don't?" Seems pretty antiwar to me anti american war to me anti american to me. My son just back agrees. Granted the safe space loonies may have been knocked for a loop by combat but not well adjusted guys that got their butts red for doing something bad, or a slap across the pie hole for mouthing off. Or someone that did 20 pushups for not cleaning his room. It's a freakin war people!!! Good American Soldiers shooting, killing and blowing up *beep* bad guys with some collateral damage that you do your damndess not to do. But if they would take care of their own crap we would have to do it at their house. Sorry but reality bites. That's why our leaders send us over to these places. It's to keep the crazy stuff on their lawn not ours. So what do these idiot libtards think our perceptions are? We have fought in Vietnam, South and Central America and Africa, and the middle East for a while now. None of which has been a standup man to man war like WW2 or Korea. 🇺🇸 So is it worse then these ISLAMIC'S slowly cutting off heads or drowning women or stepping on the heads of babies till they crutch or burning a 12 year old girl alive because her mom didn't pay a christian tax on time. Is it worse then your own guys raining shells on your guys or your buddies with no lower half still screaming? Is it worse than finding a Iraq boy with half his face gone still alive and awake staring at you with that "what the hell happened" look on his face. So Mr.'s Lee, Castelli, Fountain, how are we Americans all confused with misperceptions of war that you all have a crystal clear understanding of? Cause the only contrast I see is the one the liberal and progressives and leftist in the world have that seem to think only Americans are doing the killing and everyone else is a victim.

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Settle down.

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So...you're damning a movie you haven't seen based on a novel you haven't read, because...uh, why? I tried to glean some actual sense from your rant, but the only thing that was clear is that you don't actually know anything about this movie, but it's "liberal Hollywood" so it MUST be bad. Why don't you try actually reading the book, then having an informed opinion about whether it's "anti-war" or "anti-American"? But that would be hard. Better just to rant.

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So...you're damning a movie you haven't seen based on a novel you haven't read, because...uh, why? I tried to glean some actual sense from your rant, but the only thing that was clear is that you don't actually know anything about this movie, but it's "liberal Hollywood" so it MUST be bad. Why don't you try actually reading the book, then having an informed opinion about whether it's "anti-war" or "anti-American"? But that would be hard. Better just to rant.


And you're criticizing his opinion of a movie you haven't seen based on a novel you haven't read. Two sides of the same coin.

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Cinaet, I HAVE read the novel. So assuming the movie follows the book closely, I do know that the OP's assumption that this movie is anti-military are off.

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I agree 100 percent. There are a lot of liberals in Hollywood who look down on the military. I glad that Ang Lee has shown his true colors. I hope this movie tanks.

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Are you all right in the head??

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@antmannc


There are a lot of liberals in Hollywood who look down on the military.


Seriously? Where the hell is this bull**** that liberals are anti-military come from? You do know that liberals have served in probably every war this country's ever had? And are serving in the Iraq war right now? Since when the hell is being conservative a requirement to fight for our country? And Hollywood is nowhere as liberal as you right-wingers keep claiming it is---they're a business and all about making those dollars, just like any other business. That BS "liberal Hollywood" myth is just that---a myth, but one that right-wingers love keeping alive, as if Hollywood is responsible for all the damn problems in the world, or something like that. Give that s*** it a rest.

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That BS "liberal Hollywood" myth is just that---a myth, but one that right-wingers love keeping alive


Right. It's like the right-wingers complaining about the mainstream medias being massively against Trump. Just a fantasy. Oh, wait, Hillary Clinton was endorsed by 500 newspapers and magazines and Trump by 27. Damn.

Liberal Hollywood, "just a myth"... I don't know about you, but the myth felt pretty *beep* real to me when Meryl Streep babbled her very subtly liberal gibberish in front of an enamoured crowd. Anyway, no need to be Einstein to understand why Hollywood is mostly liberal or left-leaning. Do some research on the artistic world in general, or on the tradition of progressivism in California, in America's case. I'm not saying you have to be left-wing to be an artist, FORTUNATELY it's not the case... but there's a clear tendency, and that tendency has generated a very powerful one-track thinking over the years (it's pretty much the same in my country). Liberals complain about the lack of diversity in Hollywood, but the intellectual, the ideological diversity is cruelly lacking. If you think otherwise, you're just blind. Probably because you're a liberal ?

______
"We're not bad people... we just come from a bad place."
Sissy Sullivan, Shame.

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Scaar:

Like I said, the idea that Hollywood is nothing but liberal or left leaning is a myth. I read somewhere a while back that while the artist communities there are liberal, the big studios certainly aren't. So what if Meryl Streep said what she had to say. Last time I looked, she's a tax-paying American (unlike trumpf) and had the right to say whatever the hell she wanted to say. She wasn't trying to change anyone's mind or spew propaganda, she simply said what was on her mind (and frankly, what was on a whole hell of a lot of people's minds, including my own.) I don't know why the hell you right-wingers act as if you're the only damn ones that have the right to free speech. Also, if you're not from this country (USA) what the hell do you care what anyone from Hollywood says? And Hollywood isn't the only place in America that has liberal,free-thinking communities. I'm also not blind because I have a different opinion from yours. I don't have to think the same damn exact way as you or anybody else. I'm past tired of this rabid blind hatred of anything liberal in my country---it's just plain damn sickening--you don't have a damn claim on free speech or anything else. And,for your info, there are plenty of conservatives in Hollywood---look them up--you'd be surprised.

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So the hundreds of war movies from Hollywood, ending with Americans being the good guys and heroes and saving the world, they don't exist? Haven't you seen any of them?

Besides that, haven't you heard war is hell? Why would an anti war movie be something bad? Specially if it's started on a lie and the only ones prospering from it are the arms dealers?

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I think the real issue here is that you equate being anti-war with being "anti-American." That really shows how war obsessed our country has become that the notion of wanting peace in the world is incorrectly associated with being anti-soldiers or being against America.

I know I'm a vampire, Snookie.

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[deleted]

This is cyber bullying, stop please

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Don't you have a safe space to go to?

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Don't you have other place to bully?

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I think it doesn't hurt to be a little "war-neutral" -- i.e., not pro-war nor anti-war. Of course we all want to have no more wars, but we don't live in that world. We need to fight when necessary. After Vietnam and Iraq wars, we all sense that Americans are war-weary. Bush loved war too much and Obama disliked it too much, and both attitudes seem to be not effective. Hence, we need a "war-neutral", BALANCED attitude, and we need to elect someone who has that (Hillary seems to be closer to that). And Hollywood needs to start thinking about making a film like that.

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I would prefer that Hollywood not be used to push pro-war messages.

---
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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No kidding. Despite all the information which has been brought to the public's attention, there is still a very real "war is awesome!" attitude (which gets dressed up in different ways, but still ultimately boils down to the same thing).

---
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

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I think the real issue here is that you equate being anti-war with being "anti-American." That really shows how war obsessed our country has become that the notion of wanting peace in the world is incorrectly associated with being anti-soldiers or being against America.


Well said. Thank you!




Just a guy in Texas who loves movies. 

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I think the real issue here is that you equate being anti-war with being "anti-American." That really shows how war obsessed our country has become that the notion of wanting peace in the world is incorrectly associated with being anti-soldiers or being against America.


Well said. Thank you!




Just a guy in Texas who loves movies. 

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I believe you answered your own question. The perception of war, and whom we should label a war hero is very often different from the real thing. Sure, the world see "live" streams of war on TVs and internet today, but it is still a dress up and far away from the reality of war. The biggest issue as I see it is that war is romanticised, and it is so easy for everyone shouting send in the troops.

Strangely enough it is very often people who never served shouting the loudest about sending in the troops, not saying that anyone in here have not served or shouts when they have not etc, so no need for a measuring contest. But think about it, whom among your friends are the people who shouts the loudest about send in the troops and kill em all.

Sorry, went off topic here, my point is this, marching bands, fireworks, parades, those things are more for the morale and pride on the home front than for the soldiers. That is what the public see, parades, fireworks and strapping young men and women putting their life on the line.

Have not seen the movie, looking forward to see it and perhaps I will post a comment at that time.

Stay safe.

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[deleted]

Interesting. I graduated high school and college, am rarely bored, have a great job, a great family AND I was in the military. According to you I must be only one who did for purposes of making myself a better person and also serve and protect my country.

I'll bet you are the kind who talks tough through a keyboard, but would run the other way if you ever saw a woman or child being attacked. Look in the mirror and tell me if I am wrong.

Have a great September 11th weekend you cowardly worm.

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Let me say up front I am a veteran and hardly considered by anyone who knows me as a fitting the current definition of a liberal. Now that is out of the way and some have decided to read on and others have stopped...

Since this movie has yet to open, we have no idea what political agendas, if any, exist in this film. It is true that a majority of vocal individuals within the Hollywood film industry are "left of center". And so yes, it is possible, there may be some agenda here, there is rarely a film set in a contemporary timeframe that does not contain political or social questions we face daily.

So your question was: what does that subtitle mean? "Contrasting the realities of war with America's perceptions". Frankly I believe it cuts both ways, both left and right, and one can only hope the film portrays both sides.

From the left - many see the recent conflicts as unjust. Illegal. They see Western countries grieve over individual soldier deaths while thousands of indigenous people die and suffer dislocation. They decry this disproportional suffering while seeing multi-national corporations profit. On top of this, they see the jubilant celebration of the American fighting men and women with every corporate head and political figure beginning & ending every sentence with "God Bless Our Troops" and referring to all men and women in uniform as "heroes". They also see the isolated cases of troops acting outside the Geneva Convention and the established ROE's, and see these as in conflict with the "hero cult" established by some in political leadership.

In essence, many on the left cannot separate the warrior from the war. The proliferation and speed of the media has brought to their doorsteps the truth of war in virtually real-time, and that is this: civilians ALWAYS suffer more greatly than do the warriors in terms of loss of life. This is a fact of war that has almost never changed, although the industrial age has made us much better at killing on a mass scale.

From the right - many tie the war, no matter how unjust, to the requirement to support the warrior. Many Americans on the right will never forget Vietnam, and the abandonment of the American soldier. Nor will they forget the vindication of fully supporting the troops in not only doctrine but in providing them with overwhelming firepower, as was done in the first Gulf War, and this leads to quick, decisive, and less costly conflicts in terms of both blood and treasure. Many on the right hold politicians and corporations accountable who do not recognize our fighting men and women.

And as a result, it is my opinion many in high places now play verbal praise out of rote necessity than out of true belief. And not all of us who wore the uniform are heroes. Yes, we are a small percentage willing to step up voluntarily and do what others choose not to do; but, I, speaking for myself, was not a hero...and I have served in many capacities, in many uniforms.

Because it has become profitable for politicians of all stripes to over-venerate our uniformed personnel and romanticize their exploits, we have come in some corners to romanticize war. Not everyone who respects our troops has done this, but some have. We should and must recognize those amongst us who choose to serve, but god-like reverence is not something we are all due. That should be reserved for a chosen few.

As I see it, there are issues on both sides of the coin with the concept of "separating the war from the warrior". We all become enamored with simple solutions for complex problems, and war is both the simplest and most complex of issues. We tell ourselves we should separate the war from the warrior; but, is this even a viable concept? Is it even fair to the warrior to do so? There are common experiences between a WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf, and Afghanistan veteran, but there experiences are also unique to the conflicts which shaped them.

And this brings us to the film...which none of us has seen. And it seems to deal with this "romanticizing of war" theme. The main character is heard to say, "It's sorta weird to be honored for the worst day of your life".

I would think no matter which side of this you fall down on, that statement should ring true. Even if you have never fired a shot in anger, sit back and imagine the worst day of your life - a day where you lost your best friends. People who would fight and die for you. Where you watched others take their lives, and sometimes you couldn't stop that act. And then far away from that horrible bloody scene, a bunch of people you don't know want to give you a big pat on the back for...surviving it.

Now the movie is a HUGE hyperbole...no unit commander or Commander-in-Chief worth a grain of salt would allow the survivors of such an engagement with the enemy to be winged back TEMPORARILY to the states to be paraded in some kind of X-Factor/America's Got Talent/Half-Time Spectacular before millions of people, then throw them back on a plane to send them back down range.

On its face Billy Lynn is purposefully extreme, and fantastical, and a spectacle. And even some of the actor choices I think were made because of their personal anti-war stances. BUT we should remember some of the best war movies of all time were actually anti-war movies:

All Quiet on the Western Front
Apocalypse Now
Saving Private Ryan
Paths of Glory
Platoon
Black Hawk Down
Das Boot
American Sniper

The best war movies tend to be anti-war films that abhor the debilitating and dehumanizing violence of war and the cavalier manner in which some of those at a safe distance throw our brothers and sisters on the pyre, without condemning or mocking the warrior.

That is the ultimate litmus test for this new film. We shall see if Billy Lynn can pass this test, or if the Director and the Producers simply wanted to take a swing at a side of America that displeases them.

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@nikindug

Good post that wasn't an anti-liberal rant for once (liberals do serve in the armed forces too,y'know---something too many crazy right-wingers never seem to remember.) I liked the way you looked at and covered both sides of this issue without resorting to the above---very well done, and a really good read. Don't know why the OP didn't understand the issue, or why he's even ranting about a film that's not even out yet. I hate when people do that, and don't even try to find out what the film's about.

I've only seen three of the films you mentioned (ALL QUIET ON THE WESTERN FRONT--which was directed by a World War I veteran, PLATOON, directed by a Vietnam veteran and DAS BOOT, which is worth seeing) but Ive heard of all the rest. Some other good ones not as well-known are A WALK IN THE SUN (1945) THE STEEL HELMET (1951) HAMBURGER HILL (1987) and STOP-LOSS (2006).

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I agree, nikindug's post was excellent, well thought-out, well written....

activista, I believe you've made the point twice now that I recall, that; "liberals do serve in the armed forces too...." How about also mentioning how few? Last good set of stats I saw showed something like 8-12% of junior enlisted troops self-identifying as "liberals" and something like less than 5% of the career professionals (senior Staff NCOs and Officers). When you figure this comes from the approximately 2% of the population who actually serve, it's almost as rare as seeing a unicorn....

This is how we get the leadership of the out-administration....a Commander-in-Chief who never served in the military. Voted into office primarily by citizens who've never served in the military. Who then appoints Secretaries of Defense, the Army and the Air Force, who've never served a day in the military....









"We all have it coming Kid."

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@wiking5

This is how we get the leadership of the out-administration....a Commander-in-Chief who never served in the military.

Our current president-elect (ugggh,what a sick fckg joke) never served a day in the military either,and even flat-out disrespected some veterans with those ignoran-as-hell comments he made about John McCain's capture but funny how I don't see you commenting on that. You seem to be saying that only military leaders are fit to run this country,which is ridiculous. Running our country has nothing to do whether you're military or not.

Having done some quick research, it seems that most of our past and recent presidents were veterans,but that wasn't their sole qualification for the office, and they weren't all warmongers, either:


http://www.va.gov/health/NewsFeatures/20110221a.asp


Also, you need to provide an actual link for those so-called "stats", not just some hearsay anecdotal BS---anyone can say that these stats prove this and that. I'm sick of these stupid ignorant comments slamming liberals as if we're to blame for all of America's problems. Quit acting conservatives have never made any damn mistakes--y'all are in no damn way perfect,either. committed uu7That's some straight-up bull**** right there. There's more than enough damn room in this country for different viewpoints to co-exist, instead of everybody raging at each other for not thinking exactly like each other. Enough of this conservative vs. liberal bull****---we're all people before we are any damn thing else.

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"ugggh,what a sick fckq joke" Oh aren't you judgemental activista, so when did YOU serve? Yeah, I didn't think so. I notice President-elect Trump chose General Mattis to serve as Secretary of Defense. BRILLIANT choice IMO....

You ARE correct that "Running our country has nothing to do with whether you're military or not." It WAS in the military however, that I learned that strong leaders surround themselves with strong subordinates. It is obvious that President Obama had no concept of even basic leadership technique and it appears President-elect Trump does....

I do NOT need to provide you links for stats, you seem perfectly capable of doing your own research. I notice you weren't able to provide any stats in rebuttal. I know that's because you don't have any. "hearsay anecdotal BS" "stupid ignorant comments" Tell you what keyboard commando, I'll be more than happy to meet you at the El Paso airport, you can say those words to my face. Yeah, I didn't think so....

"---we're all people before we are any damn thing else." Yeah, but you're just part of the 98% that make up the herd, that the 2% of us volunteer to keep safe.







"You did not desert me, my brothers-in-arms...."

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wiking5:

Are you serious? trumpf currently has the lowest polls of any president in history. What the hell makes you think he's fit to lead anything or anybody anywhere, when he's clearly in over his head, and couldn't find his own a** with both hands, let alone the light switches in the White House? He's obviously not qualified to lead this country or anybody anywhere, and anyone who thinks so is just flat-out deluding themselves (you included.) He thinks you run the country the way he ran his businesses--almost into the damn ground after his four or five bankruptcies. He also took four deferments from the military during the Vietnam war---didn't know that, did you? Look it up. And give me a break----Obama has good leadership qualities, it's just that way too many damn people (white people in particular)---including the republicans---didn't want to give him a chance to lead, mainly because they couldn't deal with the fact that a black man was in the White House,and who was more qualified to be there than the current so-called idiot-in-chief we have now.

And don't come at me with that tired-a** "say it to my face" macho bull****. Just because I have a different opinion from you, you want to beat your chest, growl and threaten me? Oh, yeah, that makes you such a real macho man and all that (yeah,right.) BTW, I'm a woman--so I guess you'll say that my opinion isn't worth a damn, due to that alone. I could care less what the hell you think. And the military isn't the only place where you can learn leadership qualities. That's just your experience--it dosen't apply to everyone else.

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Saw the film, and actually liked it. It's a thoughtful, contemplative film about a young man's coming-of-age in a war, and his coming to terms about how it's has changed him, whether for the best or the worst. I'd recommend because it's not your typical war flick, but it's still worth a look.

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