MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015) Discussion > The Force Awakens really isn't that good

The Force Awakens really isn't that good

posted 8 years ago by TMC-4 (20185)
10 replies | jump to latest

http://officialfan.proboards.com/thread/559448/force-awakens-good?page=1

What I didn't like.

The plot, it's basically a rehash of episode 4. Starkiller base was really lame, boring and unneeded. The First Order are boring. Space Nazis, yawn... haven't seen that before. Plus their aims and motivation seems to be basically the same as the Separatists from episodes 2 and 3.

Why not do something different with them, make them religious extremists who see Vader as a god as opposed to another group of space Nazis, an underground group of terrorists similar to ISIS/Al Qaeda, Space Communists, a group of aliens pissed off at the way they've been treated and deciding to take power for themselves etc.

Rey was overpowered. I know it's a complaint that's been said before but it needs mentioning. Great mechanic, fine I can buy that since she's a scavenger, it fits her character. Great duelist, yep she's shown using a staff as a weapon throughout so I can buy her handling a lightsabre well, been an ace pilot.... eh, maybe since she's force sensitive which apparently helps piloting skills (Letting Anakin pilot pods because of his jedi reflexes for example). But been such a great shot with a blaster, even though it's shown she's never held one before? Nope. Mastering the force immediately to use force persuasion and been able to best Kylo Ren. Nope. That made her cross into Mary Sue territory.

The scene where Finn considers leaving doesn't make much sense? Throughout the film he's been wanting to go to the rebels and his key motivation is doing things because "it's the right thing to do" yet all of a sudden when he arrives at the temple is goal is to bail and just escape The First Order? Doesn't really connect with what he's been prior to that.

The destruction of the republic was a giant meh moment. It would have worked if they showed a planet we know getting destroyed. Corruscant, Tattooine, Naboo etc. There would have been some sort of emotional connection if we saw them getting destroyed.

Finally no truly memorable dialogue beyond some funny quips. Even movies which tend to get dislike have some good, memorable dialogue. Yoda's "fear leads to anger" speech, Qui Gon's "feel don't think" advice, Shmi's "be brave, don't look back" (which I like because looking back to the past is what started Anakin's descent to the dark side). The Force Awakens, I'm really struggling to remember any of the more serious dialogue and quotes.

[–] TexasJack (12516) 8 years ago

Good summary of the many things wrong with this hack job. I'm hoping Episode 8 will be better without JJ Abrams directing but I don't know if he is involved in other ways.

[–] Keelai (34989) 8 years ago

"an underground group of terrorists similar to ISIS/Al Qaeda"
No thanks. Too many people dying right now because of those maniacs. I don't want to see them even loosely portrayed in this movie. I don't mind the fight between the Sith (Knights of Ren) and the Jedi which is close enough re: religious wars.

"{Rey} a great shot with a blaster, even though it's shown she's never held one before?"
I got the impression that had to do with the Force, also. I figured most of her abilities originated with the Force or past training that was suppressed somehow or forgotten by trauma.

"The scene where Finn considers leaving doesn't make much sense?"
It makes sense. Finn wanted to leave the First Order for freedom. He only later passed himself off as a rebel to help his escape. When he says "It's the right thing to do." to Poe, he was lying. That's why Poe replied, "You need a pilot!" Finn finally admits the truth, "I need a pilot."

"The destruction of the republic was a giant meh moment. It would have worked if they showed a planet we know getting destroyed."
They took out the entire Republican government along with five planets. It's not in the movie, but one of the people we see killed was a person sent by Leia to win support for her cause. It could've been handled a little better. I thought the music, Nuremberg speech and imagery was powerful.

"Finally no truly memorable dialogue beyond some funny quips."
See, everyone chided Lucas for writing bad dialogue when he had some great lines in his movies. The best was "May the Force be with you." I may have to agree with you on this point since I'm struggling to think of a great line, too. LOL.

Overall, I enjoyed the movie and considered it fun to watch. I loved the characters and their relationships. The next movie should even be better since Disney gained some confidence and knows it doesn't have to play it as safe. I can't wait for the sequel.

[–] SimpleMovieCommenter (21) 8 years ago

Rey was overpowered. I know it's a complaint that's been said before but it needs mentioning. Great mechanic, fine I can buy that since she's a scavenger, it fits her character. Great duelist, yep she's shown using a staff as a weapon throughout so I can buy her handling a lightsabre well, been an ace pilot.... eh, maybe since she's force sensitive which apparently helps piloting skills (Letting Anakin pilot pods because of his jedi reflexes for example). But been such a great shot with a blaster, even though it's shown she's never held one before? Nope. Mastering the force immediately to use force persuasion and been able to best Kylo Ren. Nope. That made her cross into Mary Sue territory.

Great duelist? No. A staff is a completely different weapon than a saber and you cannot effectively transfer the skills. And the most that she has maybe ever fought very intermittently are unskilled thugs by whacking them in the head with a stick. How the hell does that support masterfully using a lightsaber for the very first time and beating a veteran duelist at his own game with no dirty tricks? It would be like Luke Force Pulling Obi-Wan's lightsaber and then dueling Darth Vader to victory. Except that never happened.

Piloting skills by the Force? I don't understand how so many people keep misconstruing this. Rey has NEVER flown the Falcon before or anything like the Falcon, ever. And then she proceeds to outfly two military pilots on her first try in ways that would make Han Solo blush.
Anakin PRACTICED at piloting the podracer long before he learned about the Force. Luke PRACTICED at flying a single-pilot fighter aircraft before flying the similar X-Wing. Their backgrounds established this. Rey's impoverished background does not support her abilities.

[–] MaximRecoil (4649) 7 years ago

>Great mechanic, fine I can buy that since she's a scavenger, it fits her character.

What does scavenging have to do with being a mechanic? In order to be a good mechanic you have to know how to diagnose problems. In order to scavenge, you don't have to diagnose problems at all. The actual assembly and disassembly of mechanical devices (parts installation and removal) is just the grunt work of being a mechanic. If you can't diagnose the problem to begin with, how are you supposed to proceed?

>Great duelist, yep she's shown using a staff as a weapon throughout so I can buy her handling a lightsabre well, been an ace pilot....

No, those two things have nothing to do with each other, not to mention that her being "pretty good with a bo staff" lacks verisimilitude in the first place, as does her being self-sufficient on a hostile planet. In reality, she would have been a slave in that environment, just as Anakin and his mother were, in a similar environment.

>eh, maybe since she's force sensitive which apparently helps piloting skills (Letting Anakin pilot pods because of his jedi reflexes for example).

She's never flown the Millennium Falcon at all, and suddenly she's a master, flying with more expertise than we ever saw even Han Solo do, and without a co-pilot, no less. Aiming the stuck turret gun by aiming the whole bigass ship? LOL at that. Luke Skywalker was "force sensitive" too, not to mention already being a good pilot (in crafts very much unlike the Millennium Falcon) but he never flew the Millennium Falcon. He didn't even know what the flashing light on the console meant. As for Anakin, there's no indication that he did well in a pod race the very first time he ever operated a pod. We first meet him after he's had a lot of experience operating and racing them.

There was no justification for any of Rey's over-the-top skills. She out Mary Sues the original Mary Sue that the trope was named after decades ago.

[–] Frogarama (12942) 7 years ago

"What does scavenging have to do with being a mechanic?"

Why can't she be a mechanic AND a scavenger? Because she's a woman?

"lacks verisimilitude in the first place, as does her being self-sufficient on a hostile planet. In reality, she would have been a slave in that environment"

Not everyone on desert planets is a slave. Anyway, judging by the fact that she's gathering parts for food and trading them to someone specific, she can be argued to be a bit of a slave.

"She's never flown the Millennium Falcon at all, and suddenly she's a master"

How do you know she's never flown it before? It was owned by the guy she worked for, the guy who has looked after her for 14 years (he is shown yelling at the ship as she leaves, same guy she gathers parts for and who feeds her). She even knew the Falcon was a piece of junk.

When you begin your assumptions with "this female character isn't capable of anything at all unless we get a documented history on everything she knows" then you can certainly claim anything you want about her.

Never ever in my life have I seen a male character get this kind of mindless nitpicking.

=)

[–] Bubbathegut (18105) 7 years ago

"How do you know she's never flown it before? It was owned by the guy she worked for, the guy who has looked after her for 14 years (he is shown yelling at the ship as she leaves, same guy she gathers parts for and who feeds her). She even knew the Falcon was a piece of junk."

Because its never shown or mentioned that Rey is a pilot, its mentioned in ANH and TPM that Luke and Anakin both have piloting skills.

Not even Luke knew what the flashing light was for and he is a pilot.

https://youtu.be/vNoCDvJpmPU?t=143

[–] MaximRecoil (4649) 7 years ago

>Why can't she be a mechanic AND a scavenger?

Trying to move the goalpost, are you? I replied to someone who claimed that being a scavenger translates to being a mechanic. It doesn't; not even close. In any case, there's nothing in the movie to indicate that she's a mechanic prior to her magically being able to fix stuff e.g., on the Millennium Falcon. If she were a mechanic, then why is she a starving scavenger? Mechanics make good money, especially mechanics who can fix commercial equipment, like big freighters. Unlike scavenging, mechanic is a skilled occupation.

>Not everyone on desert planets is a slave.

A young, solitary girl is effectively guaranteed to become one in short order. Her only hope would be to be fortunate enough to have a family adopt her as a daughter (safety in numbers). Otherwise, any scoundrel would be able to have his way with her with ease.

>How do you know she's never flown it before?

Is that a joke? She flat-out stated that she had never flown it before.

>It was owned by the guy she worked for, the guy who has looked after her for 14 years (he is shown yelling at the ship as she leaves, same guy she gathers parts for and who feeds her).

"Looked after her"? What are you talking about? He's a trader; he has no ties to her at all, much less a guardian position. He doesn't even care if she has enough to eat, and even sends people with intent to rob her of the BB8 droid when she refuses to sell it to him.

>When you begin your assumptions with "this female character isn't capable of anything at all [snip]

Your non sequitur is dismissed.

>Never ever in my life have I seen a male character get this kind of mindless nitpicking.

Where else do you think you would see it? Mary Sue characters (regardless of whether they are male or female) are usually limited to bad fan fiction. TFA is the first major movie I've seen starring a blatant Mary Sue.

[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

Rey very much is a Mary Sue, she is able to do everything perfectly with no logical backstory or explanation. She is in no way vulnerable and quite frankly I don't care about her because I know no matter what she will face no challenges at all. It all boils down to lazy writing and a very poorly written character.

Maybe she'll die in TlJ and it will turn out that they were just teasing us with the idea that she was going to be the main hero of the trilogy, that could be interesting.

[–] DracTarashV2 (4493) 7 years ago

Informative. Also... Yada yada ya. 😏 Tearing it apart is a popular thing to do but a real Jedi’s duty!

Having said that, it is good. There.

[–] [email protected] (690) 7 years ago

All I know is - it seems with each trilogy, they get worse. I'm not a Star Wars nerd, but the first three were a lot of fun, and the next were (Jar Jar aside, enough has been said) mostly interesting and serious, iirc.
But when I saw TFA on cable -- it looks like it's aimed at the elementary school crowd. Bad acting, silly plot, not at all convincing. Talk about riding the coattails of a really good franchise.