Good Imdb members. Hope you will help me because there was so much I could not understand in my one pass through this movie. Maybe some of this I should have figured out or just didn't catch, but . .
For starters -- what's the deal with the first wife and daughters --including daughter he didn't care had died -- and he denied later having children. Was she his wife, were they his daughters?
What was his financial situation-- if he's not selling, how did he support himself, his dad, his housekeeper?
What was all that about in the salon -- what did he do that offended Constable so much he left in huff?
What was he saying to all the artists in the studio (Italian to one, French to another -- I assume they respected him, but then he goes and starts painting over the painting on display (in addition to red dot --which was made into buoy?)- what's up with all that?
What was deal with Haydon -- did he turn out to be successful artist or just some little character screenwriter invented?
What was the point of showing him at the Lord's mansion, and the music evening with that Miss Kitty deal? And what was up with the Miss Kitty song?
What was the deal with the letter and why did housekeeper come to his (other) house but then not deliver the letter?
Did the housekeeper not know he was married -- and where did he and Mrs. Booth live? They moved from Margate (because doc comes from Margate to see him), but they don't live in his house with housekeeper -- what's the deal?
What was "the sickness" as in "he's got the sickness" that he died from? Was it TB?
Would much appreciate someone who understood these issues or caught them better filling me in.
1. Turner wasn't married, never. Even if he chose to be called Mr Booth once... Sarah Danby was his friend's wife, after she widowed, she became his first mistress. But they never lived together under the same roof. In fact, it's not known for sure - who really was the father of the girls - Turner senior or Turner junior? It's quite likely, that father and son shared their women. It might suit them best. Sex with Hannah was fictionalized in the film, most scenes concerning the women are Leigh's fantasies. Hannah though got very nice sum of money according to Turner's will. The "daughter" and Sarah very little though. Fact is, all those Danby women were mentioned in the will, but in the end Turner changed it, leaving them with close to nothing. Hannah got more, no one knows why... We got the idea Turner and the Danby's might be related somehow only because they were mentioned in his will. Turner was extremely secretive about his private life.
2. Turner became famous very quickly, and managed to sell OK to be sure. He worked hard as a hell, and in the end he got much more than those 100,000 pounds he was offered once. But, having little material needs, he chose to give all he had to the nation. I think maybe sex was his third passion, but surely ambition - the second. Loving his father as it obviously was the case, and getting rich, Turner might admit the girls, if he was just a bit as other normal human beings. But he wasn't. He had no interest in family life, just none. It seems he had no wish to leave something to his women, but alas, soon after he died other his relatives with the help of greedy lawyers laid hands on his possessions – not paintings though it seems. But they got enough, whereas Danby family, and Mrs Booth hardly something. About Mrs Booth I'm not so sure, but frying to recall that as I've read once, he bought for her some local shop, or pub maybe? But she revealed after Turner's death, that she got from him a little money for household only for a couple of years. And then till the end, none.
3. No one knew about Mrs Booth till the day Turner died. Coincidentally, Hannah found the letter in his pocket with his address in Chelsea. But too late, soon he was dead.
4. About Benjamin Robert Haydon's life and fate you can read in Wiki - don't be too lazy. In short, he committed suicide, unable to clear his debts, and ironically thus saved his family from dreadful poverty. He was very bad at painting, he should've been a writer instead!
5. Other numerous painters you can see in the film - about them, it's too many words to write. They were kind of big Royal Academy family, trying to win, coping, quarreling, helping sometimes, too. Real feud and competition was between Turner and Constable, both being famous landscape painters. They were so different. But Turner always got a bit ahead. In the scene he's adding a red stroke, and then transforming it into the buoy, adding the only bright red touch on the otherwise greyish surface of his painting, he's mocking the one next to his, making the audience and jury see the excesses of red paint, spotting Constable's lame work 'The Opening of Waterloo Bridge'.
6. The lord's mansion was the place Turner visited many times, painted many times. We can see some scenes in the film like his paintings. The lord was acting as kind patron to many painters, he was awfully rich and eccentric. The scene with frivolous 'Kitty song' scene I think called to illustrate how the mixed society his lordship liked to assemble there, might work somewhat risky in prudish as a hell Victorian era. Mind you, Turner and the lord weren't Victorian; but Georgian. 7. In the film Turner died from heart disease, but I never met really why, maybe no one could tell for sure. 8. If you're so interested, read more, Wiki at the very least. If not so, why go to see such films? Special kind of the pain in your head to get?
Thanks, that's very enlightening and so much interesting detail. I guess, however, it is a comment on the movie that so much of your answer I do not believe can be reliably gotten from the movie. Yes, one can use wiki to research all this, but I do believe a movie should try to be a bit more informative without needing wiki. I expected to learn something about his life from the movie, and yet ended with all these questions it raised. You point out the red dot from the movie and the Constable issue which I considered but wasn't sure, so thank you for making that clearer. I still wonder though why they referred to him as having "the sickness", what that meant in those days --I'm guessing TB. I still wonder why the Miss Kitty song caused a kerfluffle. I feel the movie didn't make clear about where he was living -- nor that he sold so much as to be so wealthy. And you mention his women -- he did in the movie appear to have a loving relationship with Ms. Booth, singing together, etc. -- I'm guessing from what you said that this was all Hollywood. And as for Mr. Haydon, while yes, I could research his name (didn't know the Benjamin part-- maybe it was mentioned in the movie) -- I feel a movie shouldn't add tidbits of an intriguing character without letting you know more or know why the character is even in the movie. In short, I felt very unenlightened about Mr. Turner's life from the movie (you have enlightened me a good bit more) getting only that he was a very odd and rather ugly man who usually grunted like a pig rather than talk and was consumed by his painting (as most famous artists were -- see Vincent and Theo), always sketching, always observing. That's what I took from the movie. So I guess I felt the movie was largely a failure as a biopic about Mr. Turner (now I know all the message board trolls are going to jump on me).
Oh, and one more thing, if you know -- who wrote the letter to Mr. Turner in Chelsea? Who knew he was there?
"He was very bad at painting, he should've been a writer instead!"
So sad, but true! And pithily expressed. To be fair. Haydon wasn't "very bad at painting," but he wasn't the genius he wanted to be. And his death was very sad.
When Turner & the other painters were talking about Haydon behind his back, with all the negative things they were saying about him, they did pretty much agree that "he can paint." What a shame about his terribly sad existence.
Could "shackles" be another way of saying cockles?
What was all that about in the salon -- what did he do that offended Constable so much he left in huff?
Constable had daubed red paint all over his painting, in Turner's opinion a cheap trick to draw attention, which he expresses by adding a bright red spot to his own painting. Constable is offended at this suggestion and leaves. reply share
lesdroits: Firstly, I shall chastise you for being very naughty and not doing your homework. Believe me, I had to do some reading about Turner, Ruskin, Constable, Haydon and others to refresh my memory, as this film is not a documentary but a rather impressionistic series of vignettes about Turner and his world. Turner himself described the quality of his art as "indistinctness" when critiqued by a patron for that very reason. Leigh expects the viewers to fill in the blanks. However, the "Pretty Kitty" question is a good one. I suppose that the scene at the Lord's home was meant to show that Turner hobnobbed with rich patrons despite his being a barber's son. As for the song, who knows why Leigh chose it. Perhaps he wanted to show that not all the entertainment was classical or sentimental singing. That song is supposed to be, for the standards of the time, quite naughty and suggestive. The "maid of the mill" wants to have many lovers, which is very daring to mention. Plus, she is a country girl and you know the jokes about the "farmer's daughter," or maybe you are too young! The man who was upset and ran out looked like a clergyman so he would have been as shocked by this as a modern clergyman if the host suddenly began showing a porno video.
Now I have a real problem. When Turner is having supper at Mrs Booth's residence--she later becomes his companion, not wife, he never married--she mentions that the "shackles" might be too salty. What are "shackles" as a food item? I looked it up but found only the obvious meaning. I imagine that it might be some kind of salty fish. Still trying.
There is a song from a theatre production that sings of food and shackles is mentioned in it .... I cant recall which musical it was ... My Fair Lady maybe or Oliver?? Anyone??