I own a Chevy, so I went to a Ford message board... - Left Behind (2014) Discussion

[–] EazyEwok 9 years ago

Yeah, no. Their hate is completely irrational. Hating them for that irrational hatred is 100% justified, because they use it to hurt people in the real world. I imagine the real world isn't something most here are familiar with.

TooYoungToCare

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[–] darkavenger77 9 years ago

I'm with you as far as hatred being 100% irrational. I've seen it in the real world over many decades of life.

The Christians I know do things like feed the homeless and help the elderly and poor with home repairs and hospital visits. The only place I'm seeing a lot of outpouring of hate is on this message board.

On the plus side, I must have added at least 20 members to my IMDB ignore list after visiting this board.

Joe "We're authorized" Fontana: I can do this all day, Mitch. How about you?

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[–] ejonconrad 9 years ago

I didn't come here to ridicule Christians; I came here to ridicule a truly awful movie.

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[–] vengeance74 9 years ago

A Christian themed film written by people who didn't read the bible apparently, as they got several critical things wrong. Idiots couldn't get their own religion right

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[–] TakeUpReel 9 years ago

Soooooo, only cowboys can comment about Westerns, and astronauts can comment about space movies, and mobsters can comment about gangster movies, etc.???

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If vampires hate "plus signs" - imagine how they feel about the "square root" symbol.

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[–] darkavenger77 9 years ago

Soooooo, only cowboys can comment about Westerns, and astronauts can comment about space movies, and mobsters can comment about gangster movies, etc.???

They would have the best perspective from which to comment. The point was the excessive amount of trolls that have never even seen the movie and just come here to slam it and those that like it simply because they disagree with the concept behind the film.

Note that I'm the only one that has replied more than once in this thread. One indicator of a troll is that they post a controversial post and then disappear. You're the 4th reply, and not one of the other three (one of whom is already on ignore for a troll posting) has had the integrity to come back and defend their comment.

To use your example, I'm not a cowboy, but do enjoy westerns. I comment occasionally on various western films and shows. As a retired cop, I comment at length on crime shows, especially when they make gross errors. Just as doctors see dumb things done on medical shows, when you have been in a profession and see it portrayed on TV, you see the shortcuts lazy writers take. On the other hand, I'm not a reality show star but do not enjoy reality shows. With the exception of one (see below), I do not comment on their message boards. It is irrational for me to go to a reality show board and slam the show (and those that enjoy it) w/o ever having seen it just because I do not like reality shows.

The only reality show I have slammed (and I slammed the show, not the fans) w/o seeing all of it is the Kelly Pickler one. I did so because I had to endure the show's annoying extended commercials w/ show content at every single commercial break for a show that I did watch, so I was qualified to oppose it based upon what I had seen. It would be irrational for me not having seen them to go on every reality show message board and belittle the shows. It would be outright hateful to belittle the fans simply because they like the show.

The title analogy here employs two car brands, but can be applied similarly in other areas. Hopefully this has educated you as to the principle involved.

Found an IMDB troll? Remember:
The best thing you can do is report + ignore them.

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[–] TakeUpReel 9 years ago

I'm not sure if a response is needed, but I thought (since I was in the neighborhood), that I would avoid the "post once and leave" situation that you mentioned. I don't usually strive for debates in these forums (since a lot of the posts are opinions that people are rightfully expressing). The only time I may continue to add to a thread is if I have a question and I'm looking for clarification. However, I understand your point about people coming onto a thread, stirring the pot, and leaving.

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If vampires hate "plus signs" - imagine how they feel about the "square root" symbol.

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[–] darkavenger77 9 years ago

However, I understand your point about people coming onto a thread, stirring the pot, and leaving.

That was the point, thanks for following up. 

Found an IMDB troll? Remember:
The best thing you can do is report + ignore them.

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[–] Thee_Justin_Sane 9 years ago

It's true, it is a shame that some people come here just to trash Xtians.

It's supposed to be about the movie, but some people feel very strongly on the subject of religion, and it can be difficult to ignore.

I think some of the reasons Xtians are picked on so much is, historically, they haven't learned to live and let live.
(obviously not all Xtians)

The picketing/shaming/banning of things that don't follow your beliefs or teachings.
Trying to rid the world of movies, music, books, and marriages that you don't approve of.
If you don't like it, don't see, listen, read, or date it.
Then mind your business.

I didn't really see this as a Xtian film, it was just an interesting sci-fi movie.
(I'm an atheist)
It wasn't until I came here that I realized how passionate and ignorant some people were about the religious content.

If you don't believe, it's still a good flic, if you do believe, I imagine it's even better.

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[–] darkavenger77 9 years ago

The picketing/shaming/banning of things that don't follow your beliefs or teachings.

Like this picketing? 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/13/fort-des-moines-church-of-christ-gay-sign_n_1273367.html

As the Des Moines Register is reporting, the Sunday morning sermon at the Fort Des Moines Church of Christ drew an estimated 100 protesters, many of whom say they were angered by an illuminated sign displayed outside the church which read “Gay is not okay.”

Trying to rid the world of movies...

What would you call the hatred expressed towards Christian films on IMDB? Strong endorsements?

In America, we have limited freedom of expression (albeit less than in years past thanks to both Democrats and Republicans). So long as no physical harm is caused to another, then we can do any of the above. To use my car analogy, I am free to express my opinions about Ford or Chevy. One great thing about the former free market was consumer pressure. As an example, if a car maker sold cars with shoddy tires, they'd not remain in business long. A dealer selling a "lemon" may have a buyer picketing in front of their business to shame them into fixing their car. If we lose the ability to do things such as this, then we are in serious trouble as a nation.

If you don't like it, don't see, listen, read, or date it.
Then mind your business.

Good advice for all. The extremists on both sides never take it though.

Along those lines, I'd suggest using the proper term when talking about things, and not a modified/derogatory one that removes the main description. As an example, I may not like Fords, however why should I use a modified/derogatory name for them? Their correct name is Ford. In modern America, our default settings are to call someone we disagree with a name. I see a lot of this when the name caller (on both sides of the issue) has no substantial argument.

Ignoring politics doesn't mean politics will ignore you.
-Pericles paraphrased in <100 characters

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[–] Oediface 9 years ago

...for those that claim they are tolerant of others.

Put away this old, tired line. It was baseless the first time it was used and it's still baseless.

Have you ever heard a "tolerant" liberal or atheist say they tolerate intolerance? Should they? Should anyone?

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[–] darkavenger77 9 years ago

Have you ever heard a "tolerant" liberal or atheist say they tolerate intolerance?

Both modern liberals (progressives) and conservatives accuse each other of being intolerant. I myself am a classic liberal. My post did not specify any political or religious ideology:

...those that claim they are tolerant of others...

If the shoe fits, wear it.

For all I know, those slamming the Christians are Muslim, Jewish, or Hindu. There are probably a number of "Trump" Republicans doing it. I don't really care.

As I pointed out in the original post:

Why slam people for hating others when you are doing the same thing yourself?

Hating others since they hate is illogical, although it's 100% human nature. We'd have a lot fewer wars and no prejudice w/o it.

Look at the first reply here, a prime example of what I was referencing. The member justified hatred for hatred that caused perceived hurt.

Yeah, no. Their hate is completely irrational. Hating them for that irrational hatred is 100% justified, because they use it to hurt people in the real world.

In other words, two wrongs make a right. Who exactly have Christians in modern America hurt? What harm has been caused to anyone? By Christians, I am excluding groups in name only such as the Westboro "Baptists" or anyone that preaches hatred such as using force of government to kill homosexuals or those they disagree with. Jesus never forced His beliefs on others, and anyone doing so now is not following the teachings of Jesus. It seems the lessons of the hatred in Germany from 80 years ago are easily forgotten by the current generation.

Here's a really simple way to look at the US Bill of Rights and religion (it applies to them all):
1. Does the government force you to go to a church, synagogue, or mosque?
2. Does the government forcibly prevent you from attending a church, synagogue, or mosque?

If the answer is yes to either, then it is illegal and can be stopped.

Ignoring politics doesn't mean politics will ignore you.
-Pericles paraphrased in <100 characters

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[–] Oediface 9 years ago

Who exactly have Christians in modern America hurt? What harm has been caused to anyone? By Christians, I am excluding groups in name only such as the Westboro "Baptists" or anyone that preaches hatred...

You are excluding? How convenient.

You don't have the authority to define the criteria for other people's experiences. I've read quite literally hundreds of posts, et cetera, by professed "good Christians" espousing hatred, intolerance and oppression — against Obama, liberals, Democrats, LGBT people, poor people, immigrants, atheists, agnostics, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Mormons...

No, son — the "No true Christian" bit ain't gonna fly.

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[–] darkavenger77 9 years ago

You are excluding? How convenient.

No, it's not me. It's their own actions that are inconsistent with a written standard.

You don't have the authority to define the criteria for other people's experiences. I've read quite literally hundreds of posts, et cetera, by professed "good Christians" espousing hatred, intolerance and oppression — against Obama, liberals, Democrats, LGBT people, poor people, immigrants, atheists, agnostics, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Mormons...

Ever hear of the First Amendment? I do not agree with people that post things like that, however they have the right to post it. They do not have a right to require me to read it, though. One nice thing about IMDB is the ignore list. I've added hundreds of hateful members during my time here.

I'm sure none of the others mentioned have ever done anything like that have they? If you read almost any posting these days, the name calling and hate is not limited to just one side.

No, son — the "No true Christian" bit ain't gonna fly.

Well dad, you may be old enough to know the one about a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's not a sheep. 

Ignoring politics doesn't mean politics will ignore you.
-Pericles paraphrased in <100 characters

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[–] Oediface 9 years ago

No, it's not me.
I am excluding...

"I" isn't you?

Ever hear of the First Amendment?

Yup. It begins, "Congress shall make no law," meaning it applies to government regulation of speech, not to privately owned web sites.

One nice thing about IMDB is the ignore list. I've added hundreds of hateful members during my time here.

I use such resources only as a last resort with people who persist in arguing for the sake of argument. I've never ignored anyone for simply disagreeing with me, even if it's on my core values. Hiding from ideas, even those I consider most vile, is repugnant to me.

Well dad, you may be old enough to know the one about a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's not a sheep.

Who are the human principals in your zoological metaphor?

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[–] darkavenger77 9 years ago

"I" isn't you?

For the topic I was mentioning, yes. It's no different than for a discussion about US motor vehicle production, writing "I will exclude any vehicles made in Canada or Mexico." This is rather basic when analyzing things yourself, so I'm not sure how the meaning was lost upon you.

I'll  use a different analogy. Someone calls themselves an engineer. Are they one just because of what they say, especially when their actions do not meet written standards and they have no engineering degree? In this event, there is a written standard as well as training one must adhere to in order to be called an engineer. Same thing with a doctor, or a lawyer. If one were to deviate from accepted standards in their words, would they be an engineer or a doctor? How about "engineers" that post in support of using duct tape instead of a proper method of attaching parts? How about a "doctor" that posts medical solutions that are a magical potion of unknown content?

Here's another one: I call myself a Muslim, however the only part of the Quaran I've read deals with killing people that do not believe as I do. Am I a true Muslim? Some in America such as Mr. Trump would say so, and then want to use force of government against anyone that may be an actual Muslim based upon the words and actions of a violent minority.

People that call themselves Christians that deviate from or ignore the core principles as described by Jesus (1. Love God above all else and 2. Love others as you do yourself so you do not for example steal from them) are not meeting the written standard for Christians. Just as I do not consider jihadists as representing true Muslims, I do not consider those advocating hatred towards their fellow man as representing true Christians.

Yup. It begins, "Congress shall make no law," meaning it applies to government regulation of speech, not to privately owned web sites.

That is exactly correct. My point was the First Amendment deals with the principle of free speech, which people routinely exercise in the US. Privately-operated web sites can and do regulate speech. One of the means here for example is to report a post so administrators can take action, or to utilize the ignore user function. I've done both for example by reporting posts that advocate racial bias or as I noted by ignoring those containing hateful terms.

I've never ignored anyone for simply disagreeing with me, even if it's on my core values. Hiding from ideas, even those I consider most vile, is repugnant to me.

That's good to hear. I agree. As I noted, there is no right to have people listen or read. I also do not ignore users simply because they disagree with me. If that were the case then I would not be reading and responding to your replies as well as others in this thread. I always prefer a reasoned debate over arguing and name calling, yet sadly that is extremely rare online. It's been my experience the person that has to use name calling/hate has no substantial argument for their point.

Who are the human principals in your zoological metaphor?

Anyone that pretends to be something they clearly are not. In this case, I was referring to those that call themselves Christians yet fail to adhere to the written principles for being a Christian. I had cited the well-known group in Kansas as one example. To utilize the above engineer example, there is a fictional group in Kansas that calls itself the Westboro Engineering Society. They advocate doing things that no competent engineer would support and that are contrary to written engineering standards. Would true engineers accept their writings and refer to them as true engineers? I'm not an engineer, however, I do not believe any true engineer would do so.

Ignoring politics doesn't mean politics will ignore you.
-Pericles paraphrased in <100 characters

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[–] Oediface 9 years ago

So, bottom line: Whenever we read or hear someone spreading hate and bigotry in the name of Jesus, should we just assume they're "not true Christians" and proceed accordingly?

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[–] darkavenger77 9 years ago

So, bottom line: Whenever we read or hear someone spreading hate and bigotry in the name of Jesus, should we just assume they're "not true Christians" and proceed accordingly?

Works for me. It's unfortunate the amount of hate we have for each other in this country and world.

If it helps, share Mathew 22:36~40 with them. That's the part about loving God above all else and loving others as yourself- and how all of the other laws (commandments) are based upon those two simple things. I had a fellow speak to me after a meeting one evening where I had called a man of another race my friend. He attempted to tell me about all of the wrong the man had done in his life. I stopped him and shared the above with him- and also that it was illegal to disclose criminal history information (he had been a part-time police officer, and I'm a retired officer).

I'm having an extended discussion on another message board with an extreme right wing type (a Trump supporter) about their hatred for all Muslims. Based upon their comments, they appear to be a Christian. Their hatred has blinded them to the truth contained in God's Word. Sadly, in my experience this type of person is willing to disregard our supreme law of man (US Constitution) as well as God's law.

Peter wrote (2 Peter 2) how there would be those that put the Word of God into disrepute based upon their false teachings. That's what is taking place in the situations you have described. It's a fairly simple matter to test what someone is speaking about when they speak of Jesus. Nearly every pastor or religious teacher I have listened to encourages the congregation to test their message by reading and applying the Bible.

Ignoring politics doesn't mean politics will ignore you.
-Pericles paraphrased in <100 characters

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