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Joss Whedon returns w/ star-studded, anti-Trump vid to get out the vote


http://www.ew.com/article/2016/09/21/joss-whedon-video-vote-save-the-day

https://youtu.be/nRp1CK_X_Yw

Joss Whedon is back with a new passion project, and he’s enlisted a few friends — a few very famous, superhero friends — to help.

The writer-director has launched Save the Day, a super PAC focused on encouraging Americans to get out and vote on Election Day. The first phase of that effort is a star-studded PSA that launched Wednesday featuring the likes of Robert Downey Jr., Mark Ruffalo, Scarlett Johansson, Don Cheadle, Julianne Moore, Yvette Nicole Brown, and Leslie Odom Jr.

Whedon debuted the initiative on his newly-restored Twitter page, writing, “Hey! Did I miss anything? Lol jk the world is on fire here’s a thing I made.”

The Save the Day website reads, “We are a short-form production company dedicated to the idea that voting is a necessary and heroic act. That every voice in this wonderfully diverse nation should, and must, be heard. That the only thing that can save democracy is the act that defines it. We are committed to fighting the apathy, cynicism, and honest confusion that keeps citizens from using their vote. And to reminding an increasingly out-of-touch and compromised set of representatives that they are answerable to the people they were hired to serve.”

The Whedon-helmed PSA, titled “Important,” features that bevy of celebrities urging Americans to vote on Nov. 8. While it doesn’t mention either Republican or Democratic presidential candidates Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton by name, Cheadle warns against “a racist, abusive coward who could permanently damage the fabric of our society.” Odom Jr. also asks, “Do we want to give nuclear weapons to a man whose signature move is firing things?”

In an interview with BuzzFeed released Wednesday, Whedon explained how he was able to get so many stars onboard for the project. “There is almost nobody that I wouldn’t approach to say, ‘If you can pitch in, do it now,’” he said. “It was pretty much the same spiel to everybody: ‘Doing a voting PSA to help get out the vote and stop orange Muppet Hitler.’”

You can see the full video at the top of this post, and a few behind-the-scenes photos from the shoot below.

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Honestly, I'd rather they just decide whether they want to be actors or political activists. I'd rather they just be actors. While they say it was only about getting out to vote, some gave their viewpoints even without saying names.

And this remark is about more than this. I've seen so many stars coming out and some of then have made remarks toward certain canidates.

Why do I care who a particular actor is going to vote for? What makes them so much better at choosing than me? If I gave my viewpoint on who to vote for, would anyone care? I really doubt it. So, why do theirs?

Most of these stars who make comments make millions of dollars and can't comprehend what the normal individual does to survive each day.

I, honestly, would rather these people do what they do best...act. Let them vote if they want. I could care less about their views.

It makes me gag to see people like DiCaprio making speeches at the UN about climate change while he rides around in his private jet burning up fuel. I'm fine with him having a private jet but don't be a hypocrite.

I know. You weren't expecting this rant but this is something about elitist Hollywood that drives me nuts, like I'm supposed to think their opinion is so great it will change my opinion. I'd like to think I can look at an issue and decide for myself.

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Let me guess, you're voting Trump ?





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkcvHaiG_M

Fabricati Diem, Pvnc !
RIP Terry Pratchett

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Actually, there are actors on both sides promoting the canidates. My comment was meant for any person in the media who feels, just because they have a following, they should tell those people who to vote for.

Hence my comment about no one caring about my vote, and the question of why their opinion is of any more value than the average person.

I believe that each individual should look through the issues concerning them and see which canidate reflects the path they want taken. They should vote accordingly.

The fact that someone might be swayed to vote because someone popular is pushing it is frighteningly high-schoolish, and right up there with people voting because of race or gender and not because of concerns the path a person is going to take us.

And this includes all public personalities who are pushing their opinion.

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You're absolutely right.

So, Trump ?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkcvHaiG_M

Fabricati Diem, Pvnc !
RIP Terry Pratchett

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Unlike you, I'm not here to push for one canidate or the other. And that's not what this thread is about, which is a point you seem to be missing.

It's about what people feel about high media people pushing their opinion because of their popularity. Aha thus is for all high media people, not just people supporting a particular canidate.

You seem to be saying that's a fine thing. But, you also arm to be saying that because they are apparently saying what you want to hear. I'm assuming you are also okay if it was actors supporting something you don't agree with?

I disagree.

It's the same thing when one of these high media people, like actors, put on a hat and hold a seal, and suddenly people are supposed to flock to save the seals, all because this actor is a part of it.

That's what this thread is about, a discussion on people who why think their celebrity status makes them more unique than the rest of us, it's about the silliness of people like this shoving their opinion down or throats.

There have been threads discussing actually voting trends and what people plan on doing on voting day. On those, I'm talked about that the issues and the canidates. But that is not what this is about.

This is about a group of people thinking they are so self-important, we actually care.

And I say that, including all, no matter who they are voting for. That's what you seem to have trouble grasping.

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No, I completely grasp what you're saying and already told you I completely agree with you.

But then I went on to ask the same question you failed to answer before (and again this time), which was if you voted for Trump.

See, I was moving on from your point by addressing mine.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkcvHaiG_M

Fabricati Diem, Pvnc !
RIP Terry Pratchett

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And I've already expressed that this is not a thread about who's voting for whom, and I don't want it to turn into that, unlike you, you does seem to want it to do just that.

They have threads that do talk about the election, in terms of who's voting for whom. On those, I've given my opinion. But much, because I think most people need look into the issues and make up their own mind. Go to those threads if you want to discuss such things.

That is 'not' what this thread is about.

And I can't make it any clearer than that.

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And, no, I haven't voted for anyone.

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^^ this.

I don't give a crap what actors do with their lives outside of acting. I only want to be entertained by their movies. Their private lives are their own business. Especially political viewpoints.

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‘Thanks Famous Actors’: Voters Hit Back at Pro-Clinton Celebrity PSAs

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2016/10/05/thanks-famous-actors-voters-hit-back-pro-clinton-celebrity-psas/

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I love irony. Usually.

So, here we get a group of non-famous actors criticizing what the famous actors did by doing exactly the same, yet still manage to miss the point of the whole thing.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkcvHaiG_M

Fabricati Diem, Pvnc !
RIP Terry Pratchett

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No, they're proving the point I was saying, and doing so in a sarcastic manner these actors and other high profile people deserve.

We don't need these and other high media people telling us who to vote for. And that's what they're doing. They can say it's a date reminder but it was more.

Because, we're not fools. We know when to vote. If a person didn't, and didn't know how to find out, they're probably going to also have trouble with finding where to vote, or probably so confused they're not going to worry about it anyway.

This is really not about Trump or Clinton. It goes into other issues high media people push their views on. This is about a group of people who think they are so valued, we care for their opinion.

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Because, we're not fools. We know when to vote.

Sorry to say, but allowing a rotten hairy pumpkin to rise to the position where he may become the leader of one of the most powerful nations on the planet, kind of says otherwise.

I'm just glad Halloween is a week earlier, when traditionally every pumpkin in sight gets completely carved up. Fingers crossed.

Being someone from a different part of the world, a little closer to where this moron would aim his brand new nukes, I'm just happy with anyone doing anything to keep him out of that seat, even by drawing everyone's attention to the very imminent point of no return. And in a nice sarcastic manner too.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkcvHaiG_M

Fabricati Diem, Pvnc !
RIP Terry Pratchett

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Again, this is not a thread about who people are voting for and why. We have those threads. Find them.

This is about people who think they are special because of some celebrity status, that is more imagined than real.

You seem to be okay with it as long it supports something you agree with it. I am assuming you're okay with them if they are stating things you're against?

My opinion on this, is that I could care little for their opinion, no matter whether it's these actors, or others. There's nothing special about them. There's nothing special about their views.

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And again, I know what this thread is about. But since I'm noticing the pattern (something you mentioned too) that a lot of the people that seem to have a problem with this particular video (because let's face it, this is hardly the only one), even those with your stance on the method that is used, only seem to do so because of a different bias than the one the video depicts.

In short, would you have cared and ranted as much if this same video had been more in favour of the other candidate, in this case Trump ?

So why I agree you shouldn't let someone else tell you what to think, or buy into their opinion just because they're famous, implying their opinions are somehow worth more than yours (even when they explicitly and repeatedly tell you that YOUR vote matters), claiming your problems with a video like this has nothing to do with your own personal preference is at the very least naive. Which is why I keep asking you about it. What I don't get is why, if it doesn't matter anyway, you don't just come out with it.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkcvHaiG_M

Fabricati Diem, Pvnc !
RIP Terry Pratchett

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My problems, which I have started from the beginning, are with any celebrity using their so called status to influence people when their opinion or views on an issue are no better than the average person.

I've stated this from the beginning.

I've also used another example of celebrity status pushing their views that had nothing to do with elections, if you'd care to look above.

Have an endangered animal? Pop a celebrity face in it and suddenly were supposed to care and connect so much more.

Climate change? Throw a celebrity face on it to 'make it more real'. Even if that celebrity flies around around in they're own private jet burning fuel.

The same thing with other issues that have nothing to do with the elections.

We used to be a culture of character. Now, we've become a culture of personalities, many magnetic personalities. And the greater a personality, the greater their influence on the average individual, even if their life is nothing to emulate. (Kardashian's, anyone)

So, no, my 'rant' isn't just because of this particular video. It just gave me a chance to voice my opinion on the people that we 'allow' to influence us.

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And, by the way, you are waaaay too focused on this election.

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I see your point. It's a lot broader than this one subject. The reason I focus (too much, agreed) on this election thing is because it's being turned into a very dangerous global joke. And anyone supporting its continuation in any way shape or form, in my opinion, is not thinking about the greater good. Which puts them on my shyte list. Everyone must have something to crusade about, right ?

But the thing is, what you're complaining about is nothing more than simple advertising, pretty much the same way anyone selling anything has always done it; by drawing attention to their cause any way they can. So if you happen to know some people that already have the attention of the crowd, why not use them to sell your idea ? Or shoes, or whatever the subject is at the time. And if they themselves happen to like the shoes you're selling, all the better.

Which brings us back to subject, and why you are OK with RDJ selling his favourite brand of car window cleaner (because he knows what he's talking about, in case anyone forgot), but not this ? Because since you chose this particular video over all others to rant about, I can't help but think that the subject matter itself must at least be part of what's bothering you.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkcvHaiG_M

Fabricati Diem, Pvnc !
RIP Terry Pratchett

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No, I guess it's because when it comes to little things like shoes, makeup, anti-aging solutions, and other small issues, I can roll my eyes and let it go.

It's annoying and fake and I don't believe their sincerity in any of it. There just selling something and getting money for it, the same way they sell a character.

If Haley Berry wants to sell makeup, let her.

But, more serious issues like global warming, endangered children, endangered animals, voting, etc...bother me more for some reason. These are issues that can be personal and it bothers me them pushing their views like they're more important than mine. And since I feel they're fake in other things, I can't find their sincerity in these issues either, and it rubs me the wrong way because many of these are serious issues.

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OK, I see the difference.

But the thing is, those things you named, issues like global warming or endangered animals, those aren't matters of perspective. They're facts, no matter what your views on them may be. I believe PSA's are meant to raise awareness of these facts, not to sell some view on a debatable subject. Opinion doesn't factor into this, what matters is if you're aware of the problem at hand, not whether or not you agree with it.

In this case, these famous actors aren't telling you who to vote for, they're asking your help to avoid a disaster. Because this video wouldn't even exist in a normal political situation. Unfortunately, since one party wound up sending their worst choice into the arena, and the other party didn't even bother to send a human being to fight over who gets the keys to the nuclear arsenal, we left 'normal' behind five stops ago and we are all in serious trouble. It's not about politics anymore, it's about clear and present danger.

Maybe the fact that you're given no choice but to accept something as fact is what bothers you. I'm bothered too, but more about the issues themselves. I have no interest in shooting the messenger.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkcvHaiG_M

Fabricati Diem, Pvnc !
RIP Terry Pratchett

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If only that were true.

But they didn't just impart important information like 'not forgetting to vote', or say simply, 'this is an important election year'.

They also imparted opinion. Just like other high media people have pushed opinion, on both canidates. Therein lies the problem.

Oh, no ;)

It's like we're on a vicious loop.

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I really do swear I'm not trying to be annoying.

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Same here, honesstly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkcvHaiG_M

Fabricati Diem, Pvnc !
RIP Terry Pratchett

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They're facts, no matter what your views on them may be. I believe PSA's are meant to raise awareness of these facts, not to sell some view on a debatable subject.


If they are facts, then why is it that Al Gore told us it was a fact that in a few years, all of our coastlines will be flooded - and then he goes and spends $8 million on a beach house in Malibu?

That's the tricky things about facts. They aren't always facts and, even if they are, when the messenger goes completely contrary to the facts they give, it invalidates the facts.

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If they are facts, then why is it that Al Gore told us it was a fact that in a few years, all of our coastlines will be flooded - and then he goes and spends $8 million on a beach house in Malibu?

Because he's a terrible person who loves to exaggerate on facts to make a point.

Doesn't mean the facts themselves aren't real, just this one guy's depiction of them. And even a thousand windbags with an agenda will NEVER EVER invalidate facts (that's why they're FACTS), all they will ever accomplish is holding back awareness and allowing the problem to endure even longer.

Take global warming for instance. Actual scientists have been proving its existence over and over, and over, and over for decades now. Even scientists working for Big Oil and the likes, whose salary pretty much depended on them disproving it, ended up switching sides when the evidence for it became so overwhelmingly abundant they either had to accept it or stop calling themselves scientists.






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkcvHaiG_M

Fabricati Diem, Pvnc !
RIP Terry Pratchett

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Because he's a terrible person who loves to exaggerate on facts to make a point.


But, we've been hearing for decades now that we were going to be flooded by years ago.

Here's another interesting one. When the first Earth Day started, it was a "fact" that we were over-due for an ice-age and we were going to freeze over in a few years.

And now we're going to melt.

Which "fact" was right? The one that was wrong or the one which wasn't considered then but now seems to be right?

More importantly, how do you explain the Younger-Drays effect?

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Both, since we ARE overdue for an ice age, based on the pattern of when we've had them before. Side note - anyone pinpointing the timeframe for one to start within "a few years" is just grossly misunderstanding the science. In a pattern spanning some 4 billion years, somewhere within now and, say, ten thousand years is more along the scale you should be thinking on, and currently we'd still be overdue for one.

The fact that the global temperature has been rising too fast over the last 100 years or so, is also true.

Climate change is a normal natural proces, but the current increased rate of global warming isn't, and it's throwing the natural process out of whack. With the polar ice melting too fast and draining into the oceans, besides turning mr Gore's beach house into an 8 million dollar coral reef, the added fresh water will cause the salt levels in the seawater to drop. This inbalance will cause the gulf stream circling the Earth to stop, making sure everyone in Europe will be cornering the market on sweaters and blankets.

But you seem to know all about this.

Point is, we're altering the normal process, messing things up. And although I'm sure the Earth itself will survive without much extra effort, I'm not so sure the population will come out unscathed, actually seeing the global results of their own actions.

And we could go on about the climate, fact vs opinion, or the merits of awareness vs political agendas until the cows come home (probably barbequed, with these temperatures), which is fascinating stuff to say the least. But we seem to be going off track here, this thing was about what that PSA Joss Whedon and Friends made was all about.

And after all this, I still stand by it.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkcvHaiG_M

Fabricati Diem, Pvnc !
RIP Terry Pratchett

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To be perfectly clear, I'm not in favor of pollution. I think we should be trying to be cleaner. Some of the issues I have are the "follow the money" issues, inasmuch as people follow Gore and others like him - even though Gore is really just out to make himself wealthy. That's always a problem with any issue - when someone complains about "the wealthy paying their fair share" and yet that person is wealthy and takes tax credits and/or manipulates (legally) their tax returns to pay less in taxes.

And, don't forget that the scientists who did the research which "woke everyone up" admitted to skewing the tests so they'd get the results they wanted.

And, while I'd love more green energy, it has to be affordable. Plus, it can't be affordable by living off of our tax dollars. So, I'd be much more impressed if, instead of raising taxes to give more money to companies trying to do green energy, if these multi-millionaires like Gore, Clinton, Winfrey, Spielberg, etc put THEIR money together to create companies to develop green energy solutions. They can hire whoever they want, pay hire wages to employees, put the factories in impoverished areas of major towns - but they won't. They just want to say their few words about it and feel better about themselves while THEY are wasting more energy and causing more pollution than 100 other people.

Plus, they support the politicians who drive manufacturing out of the country because of their taxes and regulations, so the companies go to counties which have no worker's rights, pay pennies for wages, and pollute exponentially more than they were in the US.

More importantly, how do you explain the Younger-Drays effect?


I asked this question for a reason. The quick answer is, you can't. No one can. It was a cataclysmic environmental event which happened before man had any real effect upon the environment. Antarctica had a tropical environment and became a frozen wasteland, well before man had any effect upon the environment.

I fully agree that climate change happens. It has always happened. And, for sure, man has had an impact on it. But, not to the effect that people want us to believe.

It's also interesting that you bring up the 4 billion years aspect - since we've only been on this earth for a few thousand years. And, our real knowledge of our world has only been around for a fraction of that. When we were first wandering around between the Tigress and Euphrates did someone say, "Wow. It seemed much cooler twenty years ago?" Heck, just 400 years ago was anyone doing environmental studies in Kansas?

Finally, and I hope you've seen that there is no tone in what we've been discussion, I want to address this.
Actual scientists have been proving its existence over and over, and over, and over for decades now. Even scientists working for Big Oil and the likes, whose salary pretty much depended on them disproving it, ended up switching sides when the evidence for it became so overwhelmingly abundant they either had to accept it or stop calling themselves scientists.


This disturbs me, because it sounds an awful lot like how scientists had to behave in the middle ages - agree with the church or be deemed heretics and be burned at the stake.

There are many scientists who disagree with global warming with respect to man's impact. But, with the way the media and celebrities come out with their torches and pitchforks, it is difficult for them to be heard.

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And, don't forget that the scientists who did the research which "woke everyone up" admitted to skewing the tests so they'd get the results they wanted.

Ofcourse there are people like this on both ends of the spectrum, usually because their main goal is more self-serving rather than scientific discovery. I have no illusions about mr Gore for instance.
And, while I'd love more green energy, it has to be affordable. Plus, it can't be affordable by living off of our tax dollars. So, I'd be much more impressed if, instead of raising taxes to give more money to companies trying to do green energy, if these multi-millionaires like Gore, Clinton, Winfrey, Spielberg, etc put THEIR money together to create companies to develop green energy solutions.

The problem with that is, in order to make it affordable, the people funding the research need to have the same agenda as the people doing the research. Sadly, this is more often than not simply not the case. The oil business is still one of the major global economic players, which means they're a big influence on national policy for a lot of countries. Laws pretty much created by corporations instead of elected government officials, even when they're NOT one and the same. Try to get green research past that board. Why do you think countries like the US keep invading -sorry, spreading democracy- countries that have oil ? Who is gaining by destabilizing the Middle East ?

Tax payers money isn't nearly spent on green as much as it should, because these people don't like essentially stealing out of their own pockets. Which usually means that if you want anything done at all, the private sector is forced to pick up the tab. And the people you mentioned may be wealthy as hell, you can't expect them to carry all the weight if their own government (who are actually responsible for it) refuses to. Doesn't mean they don't try. For most, their money and fame gives them the opportunity to raise awareness, start foundations, raise funds, etc. I know Oprah Winfrey once used her personal resources to go toe to toe with Monstanto, if only because she did have the money to be able to where thousands of ruined private businesses had to give in because of bankrupcy. They could just use all their money to fight the problems directly, but then they themselves would be bankrupt within a year, so that wouldn't serve anyone. This way, by using what they do best to fight these fights, they get a lot more done than they ever would alone. Doesn't mean there aren't hypocrites out there, but it sure isn't all of them.

As for governments raising taxes to give more money to companies trying to do green energy, here in Europe we see a lot of that happening. More tax money is spent on subsidising companies and private residents for any and all conversions to green energy. Wind, solar, hydro, geo-thermal, you name it. Germany in particular is one of the frontrunners in that area, with most of the energy in the entire country already being generated from green sources. This way even low income families are able to afford solar panels or personal wind turbines to power their house, even sell some excess energy back to the network.

In the US' case, maybe they should stop pumping this large a percentage of tax payers money into the defense force, and instead put it in more productive causes like this green research, or health care, or really anything that actually serves their own population instead of continuously focusing on other countries.

Plus, they support the politicians who drive manufacturing out of the country because of their taxes and regulations, so the companies go to counties which have no worker's rights, pay pennies for wages, and pollute exponentially more than they were in the US.

And all to save a few bucks. Not that the workers see any of it. Still, that's a politics thing, and I've never seen a politician yet that goes against this AND get things done. If they don't go along and/or compromise, they might as well pack it in altogether. It's all about staying in that seat. And for whomever is backing them, all they can do is hope for the best.

I asked this question for a reason. The quick answer is, you can't. No one can. It was a cataclysmic environmental event which happened before man had any real effect upon the environment. Antarctica had a tropical environment and became a frozen wasteland, well before man had any effect upon the environment.

Could have been anything. For instance, how long ago was the moon created from a big rock hitting the Earth ? Must have done something. Point is, man is not the only one that had an effect on the planet, only the most recent one. Still, we ARE the only one who's aware of what we're doing while were doing it, yet we do it anyway.
But, not to the effect that people want us to believe.

Because what people want us to believe has traditionally always been tied to the agenda of said people. People have been burned at the stake for saying the Earth revolves around the sun instead of the other way around, doesn't mean they were wrong. So thank the maker for independent research.
When we were first wandering around between the Tigress and Euphrates did someone say, "Wow. It seemed much cooler twenty years ago?" Heck, just 400 years ago was anyone doing environmental studies in Kansas?

No, but they didn't have carbon dating, soil samples, core fragments, GPS, advanced science, satelite photography, ground penetrating radar, or a long list of other scientific tools at their disposal either. Funny what one can put together with a worldwide netwerk of information tying it all together too. As for 400 years ago in Kansas, I'm pretty sure there were, if civilizations a lot older than Native Americans were into advanced math, engineering and astronomy.
This disturbs me, because it sounds an awful lot like how scientists had to behave in the middle ages - agree with the church or be deemed heretics and be burned at the stake.

Disturbes me as well, makes me wonder if this is leftover behaviour coming from similar sources. You mentioned the church...

Then again, it could also just be the simple truth for many that whomever holds your paycheck has your life in their hands. Thanks again for independent research.
There are many scientists who disagree with global warming with respect to man's impact. But, with the way the media and celebrities come out with their torches and pitchforks, it is difficult for them to be heard.

This happens on both sides of the argument, which is why it's always best to look at the data itself. And I agree that media involvement makes the truth a lot harder to pinpoint otherwise. What IS a good thing about media involvement is that it motivates (some/more) people to do just that; go look at the actual facts. Because no matter what anyone says, facts are still facts.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkcvHaiG_M

Fabricati Diem, Pvnc !
RIP Terry Pratchett

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Ofcourse there are people like this on both ends of the spectrum, usually because their main goal is more self-serving rather than scientific discovery.


But the problem is that it was the ones who wanted to prove global warming which lied. That makes it all suspect. It's fruit of a poisoned tree. Even if all of the research were re-done from scratch and over-seen by scientists who disputed the first results, it will still be tainted.

As I'm sure you'll agree, being wrong is one thing. You can admit to it and move on from there. Lying is a different matter. "Were you lying then?" "Yes." "How do we know you aren't lying now?" (Of course I'm not directing that at you personally.)

Why do you think countries like the US keep invading -sorry, spreading democracy- countries that have oil ? Who is gaining by destabilizing the Middle East ?


Sorry. I can't let this one slip by. The US was attacked. The world continues to be attacked. There were WMD's, as witnessed by the use of them by the Kurds. Even political opponents agreed there were WMD's. And, the Middle East was relatively stable when Bush left office - remember the 'purple thumbs' on the women? 0bama and HILLARY's policies destabilized the Middle East. Again, she's got experience - none of it any good.

Tax payers money isn't nearly spent on green as much as it should,


That is completely wrong, as witnessed by Solyndra. The government gives away money without any responsibility to where it came from - the people. It isn't the government's money, and those in charge of giving it away face no repercussions for squandering it, short of actual fraud. And, even then, they often face no repercussions for that.

Think of it this way. I'm sure you are a good person and if you saw a homeless family on the street asking for money, you'd give them a couple of dollars (or whatever is your equivalent) But, would you give them $100? Assuming you aren't exceedingly wealthy, probably not. If, however, you had just picked up $100 off the street, it wouldn't be any kind of problem for you to hand that over to the homeless family. Why? Because it isn't your money. You didn't have to work for it. If your family is taken care of then there are no repercussions for giving away a large sum of money.

Again, the government doesn't care if it wastes a billion on something they know won't work. It isn't their money.

That's why I'm in favor of wealthy, private individuals doing it themselves. Gates, Buffet, Gore, etc all have enough money they can combine to get things done. And, since it is THEIR money, they can hold their executives responsible for any failure. I'm not talking unexpected ones. I'm talking about when they KNOW they are throwing good money after bad.

There is no way oil/energy companies could stop them. Those celebrities have voices which ordinary people don't. They also have fans/supporters who would be outraged that their favorite actor/director/whatever was trying to ACTUALLY change the world but was being stopped by X company.

This way even low income families are able to afford solar panels or personal wind turbines to power their house, even sell some excess energy back to the network.


And that would be another thing the wealthy could do. Start their own subsidy programs to help people afford such things. I'd love to have solar at my house, but I can't afford it and it isn't cost-effective. But, if they band together to start a company to make solar panels way more efficient with a much longer life span, and then sell them at a discount to low-income families, it would make a huge difference.

Instead, they fly around in private jets, ride around in limos, live in huge mansions which waste energy, blow up stuff and release pollutants into the air when they make their movies which make them even wealthier....

I'm a Capitalist. I fully believe in the power of the purse. I don't care for greed. But, until such time as we live in a "Star Trek" world in which replicators provide everything for us, we need people with the motivation to do things - including inventing replicators. And, those people are motivated by money. Maybe only enough to get by in the world, but they still need money. So, since I'm sure you don't flush your money down the toilet, you appreciate it being spent wisely. With that in mind, the government does NOT spend the money wisely because of special interests (including their own) and the lack of accountability.

In the US' case, maybe they should stop pumping this large a percentage of tax payers money into the defense force


Every time that happens, we get attacked and/or another country which is not as nice as the US (Germany, Russia, N. Korea) starts to push to take ACTUALLY take over the world.

Also, the US Constitution requires spending on defense, and it is less than half of the budget. Entitlement programs (giving away stuff) is more than half. We'd be much better off eliminating waste and fraud than anything else. That was actually one of 0bama's promises, which, of course, he didn't bother to keep.

Point is, man is not the only one that had an effect on the planet,


No. The point is that, while we shouldn't be careless with our planet, man hasn't had a fraction of the effect on the planet that other sources have. And, those sources are still effecting our planet, including the cycle of the sun. There is a reason why almanacs are able to predict a great deal of things with pretty good accuracy (even before advanced, scientific instruments) and that is because they were/are able to track the cycles of the sun.

People have been burned at the stake for saying the Earth revolves around the sun instead of the other way around, doesn't mean they were wrong. So thank the maker for independent research.


Again, like you said, 'scientists are forced to recant their disbelief of man's impact upon climate change.'

No, but they didn't have carbon dating, soil samples, core fragments, GPS, advanced science, satelite photography, ground penetrating radar, or a long list of other scientific tools at their disposal either.


And yet we are constantly told that something which was good for us is actually bad. Or something we thought was bad for us really isn't. What we think we know is constantly changing. When we have a break-through we find out a short while later that it was wrong.

Thanks again for independent research.


I'd change that to say "independent, UNBIASED, research." But, I don't know that such a thing actually exists because almost everyone has an agenda which isn't altruistic.

go look at the actual facts. Because no matter what anyone says, facts are still facts.


Which brings us full circle. Who determines what "facts" are? It was a "fact" that we were going to freeze over. It was a "fact" we were going to burn up. It IS a fact that we didn't have the constant warm up like we were warned about. It IS a fact that the climate IS changing - as it always has.

Is it a fact that man is the leading cause of it? Is it a fact that man is not the leading cause of it?

Neither one of us can answer those last two questions conclusively. For me and the rest of us, before we lose more jobs to countries with horrible environmental records (and pay more taxes for it) we'd like to weed out the cr*p which flows through the environmental community, including the ones screaming for change and yet are doing the most damage.

Good discussion. I appreciate the civility, even if you are wrong. 😎

Just teasing with you - I think you'd expect no less from me. 

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Interesting.

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Surprised, pleasantly, that Downey Jr. would oppose Trump (no surprise that Whedon and Ruffalo would).

I think Iron Man himself probably would support Trump, thinking that most of the criticism is just excessive political correctness.

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No, as we saw in this movie, Tony/IM is in favor of more government control. And, that is in Hillary's wheelhouse.

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Tony/IM is in favor of more government control.


Up until the end where he forgot about his pro-government speeches and ignored General Ross's call when Cap came to the Raft to release his pals out of the prison.

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