MovieChat Forums > Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015) Discussion > Great Quote: 'DC is for kids then you gr...

Great Quote: 'DC is for kids then you graduate to Marvel'

posted 10 years ago by McGrit
95 replies | jump to latest

There's no question that Marvel has more depth and complexity and it translates to the big screen as well as in the books.

To quote the History Channel Documentary Comic Book Superheroes Unmasked from a few years back, "When you're a kid you read DC. Then, as you get older with more adult sensibilities, you graduate to Marvel."

It's been true for years and the current efforts on both the small and big screens just cement this fact. DC is so desperate to be taken seriously that they've tried to turn all their characters dark and brooding.

They stray from their source material because they know their foundation is silly and the history is shallow. Yet, what they fail to realize is that they are treading middle ground and coming off as even more ridiculous. When something is idiotic but tries to be dark and serious, what results is a mess. You then grant Hollywood types the freedom to inject whatever they think works.

This even happened to Marvel characters when Fox and Sony thought they knew better. Things like Elektra and Ghost Rider among others means that Hollywood "knowing better" can screw up even characters with depth. Imagine what is going to happen when you take every DC character who isn't Batman. What DC has (for the most part) are remarkably shallow, juvenile characters and the WB is asking some Hollywood hacks to make them believable and respectable. Good luck with that concept.

You simply can't make chicken soup out of chicken sh_t even if the one "ingredient" they will try and save every "recipe" with is Batman.

Thank God Marvel has a better foundation and more complex characters. They can stay true to their characters and not be afraid to deliver complete multiple note films. Humor can balance with drama and angst and action... imagine that!

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] SophieSlut 10 years ago

Great quote indeed. DC is like Marvel's young side kick.

[–] IronBallsM 10 years ago

When the DC trolls get heavy around here, I think it's wise for them to read this title don't you think?

[–] bud-47 10 years ago

This was how it was for me growing up as well. When I was a little kid, I grew up on cartoons and action figures. I loved Superman, Batman and Robin, Flash, because they were part of the Superfriends cartoon series. There were the action figures, the Christopher Reeve movies, etc. In the 80's, DC was dominating. In '89, the Tim Burton Batman movie kind of put a nice cap on that era for me.

Then when I got a little older, the X-Men animated series premiered and I was hooked on Marvel ever since. That show had mature themes that explored serious issues which blew me away. That series got me into comic books until I was halfway through high school, at which point I kind of grew out of the whole thing. Other than the whole Death/Return of Superman storyline during that period, I was all about Marvel. I just couldn't go back to DC, it felt like going back to the kiddie stuff.

I'll always have a soft spot for DC though because it represents my early childhood.

[–] comicman117 10 years ago

What DC has (for the most part) are remarkably shallow, juvenile characters and the WB is asking some Hollywood hacks to make them believable and respectable.

Spoken like someone who hasn't read many DC comics. DC has loads of characters that are ripe for film, sadly WB's interests has always been Batman, Superman, the rest. DC's failure to branch out in film has nothing to do with their characters, it has to do more the careless executives who are only interested in trying to play catch-up with Marvel, then with trying to make good movies.

One of the reasons why I prefer DC, is because their mythologies are so much stronger then Marvels. So many potential DC movies that have been made over the years have been wasted, and as a DC fan, it's just sad.

I wasn't waiting, I was just sitting and breathing. Got a problem with that?

[–] IronBallsM 10 years ago

The last time Superman was a good read John Bryne was writing and drawing it thirty years ago. Honest to God, that was a grounded and well structured Superman. Ever since, they've reverted to shallow Supes.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] IronBallsM 10 years ago

And Frank Miller kind of went nuts years ago. This isn't 1980's Frank Miller ideas.

[–] blackdoug 9 years ago

I've been woefully underwhelmed by Arrow (after hearing a lot of praise)... mostly because the main leads are about as interesting as putty, and the plot (outside of the island stuff) seems cookie cutter.

[–] SpanishRicky 10 years ago

Lord above, this is so true!

[–] IronBallsM 9 years ago

Man, this is being proven today and by the trolls around here isn't it?

[–] chriskunselman 9 years ago

DC and Marvel are both for kids, then the Marvel fans refuse to grow up and start juvenile competition threads like these, ignoring huge amounts of storytelling (good and bad form both), and the fact that they have mimicked each other continuously since 1940. Pathetic. Besides, I love both companies but we have Marvel to thank for style over substance crap ever since they caved to popular artists like Rob Liefeld, Jim Lee, etc., and let these substandard hacks not just draw but attempt to write titles. For most of the late 80's and 90's DC atleast trusted their writers to write and their stories were leagues beyond most of Marvel's output. I dare you to read the run of Liefeld's X-Force, Jim Lee's X-Men or Todd McFarlane's Spider-Man and tell me those are good stories. If you come back that they are great, then I know you have zero credibility, and a serious case of arrested development.

[–] justanicknamed 9 years ago

You poor child. Read some of the stories John Byrne read.

Then go read most of the Batman stories from the 1970's through 1980's where he ALWAYS had EVERYTHING he needed on his utility belt - even if it meant the belt weighed 300#'s.

Same with Superman books from the same time where regular villains were getting the drop on him.

Then try to come back and say those are great stories.

We already know you have zero credibility, so don't bother.

For the record, I watch Supergirl, The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, loved Batman 1989 & Superman The Movie and even liked Man Of Steel.

[–] chriskunselman 9 years ago

For the record, I'm not a child, I'm 43. I've read not just the things you've mentioned but 80% of comic books, above and underground released in the US and even quite a few released over seas. One thing we may agree about is that John Byrne is seriously overrated by fanboys. His Man of Steel hasn't aged particularly well, besides he can't hold a candle artistically to George Perez, Jose Luis Garcia Lopez, Kevin Nowlan and many others.

I don't think we have much argument here really, my point was that both companies have their good and bad output. I love many characters from both, and despise many character from both. I will say though that DC was there first as far as superheroes go, and that Superman, Batman, and yes even Wonder Woman are bigger and more iconic than even Spider-Man.

[–] justanicknamed 9 years ago

For the record, I'm not a child, I'm 43.

Could have fooled me. Going out of your way to insult the tastes of other people is pretty childish.

One thing we may agree about is that John Byrne is seriously overrated by fanboys.

Good thing I'm not a fanboy. I just remember his stories as standing out because they weren't just "Zap!" and "Pow!" stories. They had a lot of depth to them.

besides he can't hold a candle artistically to George Perez, Jose Luis Garcia Lopez, Kevin Nowlan and many others.

A matter of individual tastes. Back in the day, Byrne and Perez were my favorites. But, I can't say that I specifically remember any of Perez's stories.

I will say though that DC was there first as far as superheroes go, and that Superman, Batman, and yes even Wonder Woman are bigger and more iconic than even Spider-Man.

Hard to compare. Spiderman is HUGE and he's simply a "local" character. He's not off saving the world. Plus, he usually was dealing with being an awkward teenager and high school issues. I do like the 3 you listed; I'm just saying that it is apples vs. oranges.

[–] chriskunselman 9 years ago

I didn't go out of my way, I was going that way so I went there. Seriously though, I was responding to the ridiculous notion, running all through this thread, that Marvel is better (more mature, better characters, better stories, better whatever) than DC. As you wrote, 'a matter of individual tastes'. It isn't hard to compare Spider-Man or any other superhero since they are creations within a very narrow media. I studied art, so i'm basing my opinion of John Byrne's art on classical drawing techniques. Now he does have a great sense of storytelling and depiction of action when he's not mailing it in. Some classic covers, especially from his X-men days. Unfortunately, he's also a company toady who took Marvel's side in court against a fellow artist, so f-ck him. Plus, his run on Wonder Woman after Perez in the 90's was a travesty, insulting to the character, at least that's my opinion (based on my personal taste). Anyways that argument is hollow and gets us nowhere anyway. Obviously everyf-cking thing is a matter of opinion and taste, so what. That's what this whole damn thread is about, everything you say, everything I say, on and on and on... What the hell would we talk about otherwise, since no one will ever be swayed and every one of us is always wrong yet always right. In a society where everything's relative, nothing is definitive.

[–] justanicknamed 9 years ago

The problem is that

then the Marvel fans refuse to grow up and start juvenile competition threads like these

DC fans start similar threads trashing Marvel both here and on DC threads - but mostly here. I pop into DC threads from time to time, and I don't see nearly as many Marvel people starting anti-DC threads on DC boards as DC trolls do on Marvel boards. When Ant-Man came out, there was a point where like 8 of the first 10 threads were trashing Marvel.

It isn't hard to compare Spider-Man or any other superhero since they are creations within a very narrow media.

So you can compare Deadpool to Firestorm? Or Wolverine to The Atom?

Yeah, not so much.

I studied art, so i'm basing my opinion of John Byrne's art on classical drawing techniques.

And? Food critics often love overpriced, tiny portion, pretentious meals. Movie critics often love movies which make no sense, even if you were able to stay awake during them.

I liked Byrne's art because it seemed real. He didn't have guys buffed up and looking like "mini-hulks" when they weren't supposed to be buffed up.

Unfortunately, he's also a company toady who took Marvel's side in court against a fellow artist, so f-ck him.

Not any good reason to like or dislike his work.

[–] chriskunselman 9 years ago

For the purpose of my comparison (magnitude of iconicism) yes certainly, I could compare any superhero. Look, it's obvious you don't want to be two comic fans just comparing likes, and arguing is pointless . You're so right, about everything, happy. I don't care how many DC fans vs. Marvel fans troll boards, that was kind of my whole point, it's always silly to have the two competing. The only thing that matters as far as I, and I'm sure Marvel and DC are concerned is sales figures, and the survival of the print medium. Those sales are the only true competition that matters, really. Btw, I didn't say I disliked Byrne's work because of his toadyism, but it definitely made me lose some respect for him as a creator, and that's important to me. Personal integrity is important, I love the art of many communist propaganda artists, but i don't respect them and that lessens their value to me as a fan. Now, that's a personal view of mine, you don't have to agree, or come back w/some genius argument on why that shouldn't be, because i'm well aware it's not completely rational, our passion for things is never solely so. Good Day.

[–] justanicknamed 9 years ago

For the purpose of my comparison (magnitude of iconicism) yes certainly, I could compare any superhero.

And you would be comparing apples and oranges. Superman has been around since 1938. Batman - '39. Wonder Woman - '42. They went around the world with the soldiers in WWII.

Spiderman was introduced in 1962. His story is also very different inasmuch as he's supposed to be a teenager, not a full grown man or amazon warrior.

As I said, you can't compare unlike characters.

[–] chriskunselman 9 years ago

Yes, their long history is a good part of why they're so iconic, that doesn't mean I can't compare the level of those characters iconicism. (Capt.America, the Sub-Mariner and the Human Torch have been around as long, and went through WW2, are they available for comparison under your strict guidelines?) Are you deliberately missing my point and continuing to argue when I've already said it's pointless to argue? Wow. Yes, you're right, they are different superheroes, with different back stories and different histories within the medium, so what? I'm not comparing those aspects of said characters. So in other words, since all characters have differences, and dates of conception, comparing them is impossible on any level. Genius. As I wrote previously, all we can compare in an exchange where neither commentator can be truly right or wrong is opinion, and you know the old saying, 'opinions are like a-sholes, everyone's got one'.

[–] justanicknamed 9 years ago

Yes, their long history is a good part of why they're so iconic, that doesn't mean I can't compare the level of those characters iconicism.

Ok, so then let's look at this. Superman had a 24 year head-start on Spiderman, plus the advantage of being taken around the world. He had a TV show in the 50's and a 25 year head-start on movies.

That means Spiderman is kicking his azz all over the place seeing how he was behind to start and has become as huge and iconic as he is.

The sword cuts both ways.

[–] chriskunselman 9 years ago

You know what, I love Spidey, always have, and I think of all the Marvel characters he definitely is iconic. Having said that, it's a different kind of iconic at least for me, then DC's big three. There's a weightier, myth-like quality to them that I think Spider-Man (and most other superheroes as well) lacks. Now, that's not necessarily a bad thing and i believe that was somewhat by design. Spider-Man was created to be real world relatable, with problems traditional superheroes didn't face, and that was genius on Stan Lee's part. Of course what was groundbreaking in the beginning became it's own cliche by the 70's, when that approach became entrenched as the 'Marvel Method' and Marvel's comics became super-soap opera. Yet, they came back from that eventually, just as DC always leaves it's creative ruts behind eventually as well. As a fan, I just hope they can both continue to do so, as long as I'm around to read their stories. Cheers.

[–] justanicknamed 9 years ago

Of course what was groundbreaking in the beginning became it's own cliche by the 70's, when that approach became entrenched as the 'Marvel Method' and Marvel's comics became super-soap opera.

And yet that applies to DC as well. IMO, DC was worse because their "iconic hero's" became "Adam West" and "George Reeves" and "Lynda Carter" laughable. I don't just mean the shows, I mean the comic where Batman had every last thing he ever needed on his utility belt - even if that mean the belt weighed 300#'s. Superman could do every last thing, except dodge a blow from someone who wasn't super human. And Wonder Woman was unexplainable fluff.

Going back to what you said previously - I want DC to do well. If they do better, it forces Marvel to do better. If Marvel does better, it forces DC to do better. In the end, we, the consumer, benefit.

I still prefer Marvel more than DC. While I liked Batman Begins and Man Of Steel, I don't like that DC thinks "morose" is enjoyable. Who wants to go see a mainstream comic book movie and walk out feeling depressed? 

[–] chriskunselman 9 years ago

I agree that dark/brooding isn't always the better way to go. We plumbed those depths so thoroughly by the end of the 90's in the comics that i was well done w/it. You know, on first viewing Nolan's DK franchise i found a lot to love, and Batman's my first and longest superhero favorite, yet on rewatching them and letting them seep into my psyche, I've come to see them as seriously flawed creations. Heath Ledger's Joker was amazing, but Bale's voice now annoys the heck out of me. I too, would like to see more of the child-like joy in DC's film adaptations, this hopefully doesn't mean they have to be simplistic or silly, but capture that exuberance that say Superman had in the 40's or the FF did in the 60's. Here's hoping.

And you're right, competition between the big two has always been healthy and spurred each other to great creative highs. I check the back of Previews every month for the top 100 comics, and though my deepest and oldest allegiance is to DC and i love to see them outselling Marvel, I'm not too upset when it swings back the other way a month or two later. I'd be sad to see either one disappear, they're like PB and J. I worry about the future of the comics as a print medium (obviously this isn't a new fear), esp. now w/so much competition, and the movies, even when wildly successful, never seem to translate to lasting readership spikes.

I'm glad we're on to fan to fan conversing, I enjoy it much more than arguing honestly and in my day-to-day life I find few occasions for such. Unfortunately the nature of these forums and our past experience on them, tends to make many of us combative right out of the gate. I apologize if I came off like a jerk at any point. Make Mine Marvel (and DC)!

[–] justanicknamed 9 years ago

Heath Ledger's Joker was amazing,

I like the movies less and less, and I found Ledger's Joker to be annoying. I found Nicholson's Joker to be intimidating and crazy. With Ledger, I wondered how no one had put a bullet in his head years prior. I didn't see where he had any of Joker's humor, crazy or otherwise.

I still quote Nicholson's Joker. Just the other day someone said to me, "You're insane." and without missing a beat I said, "I thought I was a Pisces."

Bale's voice now annoys the heck out of me.

I wonder if they could have done better changing it in post-production, but I just let it go. I figured he had a device to eff with his voice and that is how it sounded.

I too, would like to see more of the child-like joy in DC's film adaptations, this hopefully doesn't mean they have to be simplistic or silly, but capture that exuberance that say Superman had in the 40's or the FF did in the 60's. Here's hoping.

I agree. I thought the first two Superman movies had a good balance. Same with the first two Batman movies.

I apologize if I came off like a jerk at any point.

Same.

[–] chriskunselman 9 years ago

I totally agree about the Superman and Batman movies, It's unfortunate both series had to continue from there. It will be hard to imagine a better film Superman than Reeves, who brought a purity and dignity to the roll that I still find wonderful. The production design of Anton Furst was delicious, and Tim Burton really did strike a great balance between moody and campy. I also love Nicholson's take on the Joker, Ledger's definitely being a very different beast. I don't like what I've seen so far of Leto's in the Suicide Squad, the teeth and tattoos being the least of several bad indicators. Oh well, maybe it will surprise me. I really enjoyed Deadpool. Colossus is one of my favorite X-men and it was nice to see him get some real screen time. Deadpool is a good example of dark done right, without the brooding and self-seriousness we saw in the Nolan movies.

[–] bond_98 9 years ago

I think this statement was especially true in the 60's. Anyways i think DC has created some great stuff over the years and so has Marvel. The reason why DC is failing at the movie isnt that there no great story tell. It has to do with Bean counters being in charge. Instead of creative people or some who understands these characters in charge. The have people suits. I would love to see a great DCCU to go along with a great MCU. But i don't see that happening any time soon. I think in the 60's. Marvel was way better. But DC got a lot better in the 80's. Now i think they both suck as far as there comics go. Too Many Gimmicks.

[–] IronBallsM 9 years ago

It's still true today even though a bit of talent crosses over from one side to the other from time to time. It's the characters more than the creators that matter at this point.

[–] blackdoug 9 years ago

Kids that never graduate do enjoy DC more.

[–] mightymac101 9 years ago

As well as kids that are forced to repeat the sixth grade over and over again. DC fans for life.

[–] gangsta_toes 9 years ago

That quote applied to me as well. As a kid in the 70's I started out reading DC, and would even toss them out after reading. Once I got to be about 9 or 10 maybe (possibly even younger) I started reading Marvel and began saving the comics. I keep reading Marvel for the next couple decades and could't stomach anything from DC. I still have all of my comics which is funny because I have a lot of the comics they are making films of now including the future comic of Thanos versus earth's hero.

"You have the right to remain silent, so shut the *beep* up!"

[–] Marvelouis 9 years ago

JLA was great when I was ten years old. Then, I grew up.

[–] blackdoug 9 years ago

On a related topic, Raquel Welch isn't the only Hollywood sex symbol to have aged well.