MovieChat Forums > Jessica Jones (2015) Discussion > Is this show anti white men? (Hear me o...

Is this show anti white men? (Hear me out)

posted 8 years ago by GhostWriterX
12 replies | jump to latest

Before you guys flame me, or ignore me, or otherwise write me off as some troll, I like this show. I gave it an 8/10, I thought it got good as it went (though took longer than Daredevil to pick up), Kilgrave was awesome, and I even liked Kristen Ritter as Jessica.

However, I was talking with a friend, and he brought up how practically every major white male character in the show were portrayed rather......unappealingly to put it simply.
We have Kilgrave, the main villain (and who stole the show everytime he was on), who controls people to do horrible things, and raped many of his female mind-slaves (since they weren't in their right mind to consent), among other things.
We have the soldier guy, who even though showed some redeeming qualities after feeling guilty for hurting Jessica's sister (and they even had make-up sex), he was shown to hide volatile tendencies, and had access to imperfect Captain America-like drugs, which made him even more aggressive. He ended up as an antagonist toward the end of the first season.
Then we have the siblings who lived above Jessica; the loud obnoxious sister, and her....I can only say mentally challenged brother. While he didn't do anything to make me personally dislike his character (I didn't mind him, and at times I almost felt sorry for him), he clearly was unable to take care of himself without his sister, and came off as a man-child.
The only major male character that stayed consistently good (longer than most other male characters at least) was Luke Cage, a black guy. Now, to be clear, I like Luke Cage. Do I think he's a strong enough character to carry his own show? No, but even Marvel's weakest movies/shows ended up being entertaining, so I'll give it a watch. But it seems that Luke Cage was given better treatment than other major male characters, many if not all of which were white. Even Jessica's black junkie neighbor who followed her around was revealed to be a better character than he appeared, from what I remember.

Now that I think about it, though, what my friend forgot to mention was how the white women weren't exactly portrayed flawlessly either, or entirely as victims. There's Jessica I suppose, who's an antiheroin and is not above using others for her own ends. There's Carrie Anne Moss's character, who cheated on her wife with her (younger and much hotter) secretary, and Jessica's adoptive mother, who used Jessica's adoptive sister as a means to bask in the spotlight. And even Jessica's sister ended up having stockholm syndrome-like feelings for the soldier guy. And then there's the crazy annoying sister with her man-child brother. Now SHE got on my nerves, and I wouldn't mind if Kilgrave got her killed in someway.

It seems the white characters in Jessica Jones didn't have as much likable or redeemable qualities than in Daredevil, or Agents of SHIELD, or Agent Carter (though Agent Carter didn't treat white men so nicely either now that I remember it).

This wouldn't be the first time Marvel has gotten uber-PC with its material, it's just that they've managed to keep it mostly to their comics. Now, with this analysis, and the casting of Spider-Man: Homecoming, and casting in older movies like Thor, it seems even their movies and shows are starting to be tainted by this trend. But that's just what I think.

Thoughts? Anti white men? Anti white people? Just a coincidence in their choice and use of the characters?

When the whole world tells you to move, you plant yourself like a tree and say "No, you move"

[–] robertblakenyc 8 years ago

Kilgrave's father seem okay but this is not a happy show so no one can look good or be okay. In this show, Hope commits suicide 😨 and that tells you all you need to know about tone. So this show is anti-white men the way forest fire is anti a particular species of animal. The reality is IT'S KILLS EVERYTHING!

[–] dmcreif 8 years ago

I wonder if you were even paying close attention seeing how you don't seem to remember any of the characters' names aside from Jessica and Kilgrave.

We have the soldier guy, who even though showed some redeeming qualities after feeling guilty for hurting Jessica's sister (and they even had make-up sex), he was shown to hide volatile tendencies, and had access to imperfect Captain America-like drugs, which made him even more aggressive. He ended up as an antagonist toward the end of the first season.

One, Will Simpson is implied to have been messed up even before the incident with the pills. Furthermore, Trish and Jessica are not sisters, they're adoptive siblings.

Now that I think about it, though, what my friend forgot to mention was how the white women weren't exactly portrayed flawlessly either, or entirely as victims. There's Jessica I suppose, who's an antiheroin and is not above using others for her own ends. There's Carrie Anne Moss's character, who cheated on her wife with her (younger and much hotter) secretary, and Jessica's adoptive mother, who used Jessica's adoptive sister as a means to bask in the spotlight. And even Jessica's sister ended up having stockholm syndrome-like feelings for the soldier guy. And then there's the crazy annoying sister with her man-child brother. Now SHE got on my nerves, and I wouldn't mind if Kilgrave got her killed in someway.

As I said, I question if you watched the show in its entirety because you don't seem to remember the characters' names. And by the way, Jeri Hogarth did have that messy divorce thing and tried to use Kilgrave as a last resort when attempts to use normal methods failed, so she's clearly turned it around by the time of her showing up in Iron Fist. Furthermore, Trish's stockholm syndrome feelings for Simpson are probably the result of the fact that they both acknowledge that his attempt on her life was when he wasn't in control of himself. Even then, I dare say that victims of abuse may not necessarily be the best at finding healthy relationships, Trish being one such person given the flashbacks involving her mother.

Bottom line is, try to ignore the skin color thing. I focus more on how the characters are written.

[–] GhostWriterX 8 years ago

I wonder if you were even paying close attention seeing how you don't seem to remember any of the characters' names aside from Jessica and Kilgrave.....I question if you watched the show in its entirety because you don't seem to remember the characters' names.

And Luke Cage, all the major comic cook characters. I have seen this show in its entirety, twice. Characters that don't leave enough of a personal impact on me, I don't tend to remember their names, but I can still recognize faces and their roles in the story. I'm caught up on Game of Thrones (which I gave a 9/10) and I still don't know all the characters names, even some of the major ones.
It's the same in real life, there are people I see at school, and at my job. I see them enough that I recognize them, but I don't always remember their names. I feel kinda bad, though, because they seem to know and remember mine.

One, Will Simpson is implied to have been messed up even before the incident with the pills. Furthermore, Trish and Jessica are not sisters, they're adoptive siblings.

I remember he was messed up before, for the sake of this argument I noticed that his redemption arc or whatever was cut short.
I know Jessica was adopted, but they've been referred to as sisters since then, and I'm not going to type "adoptive" the whole time.

And by the way, Jeri Hogarth did have that messy divorce thing and tried to use Kilgrave as a last resort when attempts to use normal methods failed, so she's clearly turned it around by the time of her showing up in Iron Fist. Furthermore, Trish's stockholm syndrome feelings for Simpson are probably the result of the fact that they both acknowledge that his attempt on her life was when he wasn't in control of himself. Even then, I dare say that victims of abuse may not necessarily be the best at finding healthy relationships, Trish being one such person given the flashbacks involving her mother.

Bottom line is, try to ignore the skin color thing. I focus more on how the characters are written.

Like I said, this is a discussion. I never looked at the show this way, but my friend did, he brought it up to me, and now I'm bringing it up to you guys.

When the whole world tells you to move, you plant yourself like a tree and say "No, you move"

[–] Gokuvswhitepanther 8 years ago

Luke cage is the best. Didn't care about anyone else.

[–] robertblakenyc 8 years ago

If you like Cage then you sort of have to support his wife Jessica and best friend Danny the Iron Fist Rand! 😃
But in seriousness this show has so much potential it's scary. I really hope the writing staff gets their asses in gear for next season.

[–] anythingbutthatoldone 8 years ago

The entire film industry in-toto, is anti-white male. They have been for 20+ years. It's sad that you have just now caught on to it. An average white male cannot be portrayed in any film without having some kind of detrimental fault. They can't just be a normal person. It doesn't fit into the liberal narrative. Thankfully, politics currently are crushing the liberal narrative and it will soon be eradicated. 20 years too late, but better than never.

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Again, go suck my ass.

[–] GhostWriterX 8 years ago

Good point, but at least it makes the white male characters more compelling. In an attempt to make Rey in Star Wars the greatest character ever, they made her too good, she learned things too quickly, she took care of herself so well that the other characters appeared redundant, and she defeated the villain in the first movie, all while learning force powers that took Luke 3 movies to learn. And people noticed, she was a terribly written character, she fit the "Mary Sue" archetype so well. It's screenwriting 101, characters you should AVOID writing.

Further more, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that non-white characters seem to be written off as more capable as well, most of the time. Blacks, Asians, maybe Hispanics, they seem to have less detrimental faults (with exceptions, of course). But you know what? It may make them cool, but it makes them less compelling, less identifiable. They're cool to watch, but you don't grow a deep and personal connection with them, not like with many white male characters. So their loss. No wonder many white male characters are being race-washed in movies and shows, when all they need to do is make the non-white characters more interesting.

When the whole world tells you to move, you plant yourself like a tree and say "No, you move"

[–] anythingbutthatoldone 8 years ago

[–] Burklayton 8 years ago

If you were familiar with "Officer Simpson" in the comic books, you would know that this program actually made him very, very sympathetic in comparison. As far as we see, he is a dedicated soldier and a man of honor who took part in some sort of black operations project in his past that at least temporarily took his mind from him. By coincidence, Kilgrave chooses him (of all people) to drag into the mess with Jessica.

He then is deeply disturbed by what he finds out and tries to do the right thing. In fact, if Jessica had allowed him to assassinate Kilgrave as initially intended (and as she ends up doing regardless), many lives would have been saved and he wouldn't have fallen back into the waiting arms of his corporate handlers.

By the time he becomes a true antagonist, he has well and truly lost his mind.

[–] GhostWriterX 8 years ago

Well, that sounds quite interesting, and I hope the show makes use of that too. We'll see.

When the whole world tells you to move, you plant yourself like a tree and say "No, you move"

[–] Burklayton 8 years ago

I am confused by your post. Everything I described in my post was about Simpson as he appears on the television series for "Jessica Jones".

In his comic origins (as a Daredevil villain, initially) Simpson, or "Nuke" as he's better known, is simply an insane Vietnam War version of Captain America that has lost his mind and thinks he's still fighting Viet Cong and the NVA.

[–] GhostWriterX 8 years ago

My bad, I was in a rush I made that reply. Let me try and explain.

The way you described Simpson reminded me of why I liked the character, and the way you said it made him seem even more sympathetic to me. There were some things you brought up that I didn't give much thought to at first, which made it all the more tragic for his character when you brought it up.

When you brought up his comicbook version, I thought that it was interesting, and combined with his more human counterpart in the show, I hoped that the writers do something with this, and showed that he's not some evil white guy that my friend argued about.

When the whole world tells you to move, you plant yourself like a tree and say "No, you move"