Why are you assuming these women directors don't care about Jessica Jones? What is convincing you that these women aren't excited to write about Jessica's character and be glad to reach out to women at the same time? Artists can care about many different things at once. You seem so convinced that these women are out to tarnish a character you care about and there's nothing that proves that. Tbh you're worrying about a non issue. You don't even know much about season 2 but you've decided that women are going to ruin the character in favor of pushing an agenda--which is silly because I'm pretty sure these women have done good enough work prior to show that they don't screw up often. We've already established that JJ show is different from comic JJ so if the differences bug you that much then just don't watch it I guess.
You have absolutely no evidence that suggests that these women don't care about Jessica Jones and her character. That's jumping to conclusions with little to no evidence. Maybe I'd understand your concerns if the women openly stated that they think JJ is stupid and they don't care but thats not the case, is it. Maybe question why you have such little faith in these women's talents?
I will show quotes from Melissa Rosenberg and breakdown what is wrong in the statements so you can understand where I am coming from...
From Esquire:
"She was kind of messed up even before Kilgrave came along," Rosenberg told Esquire, "and so in Season Two we can explore what's possible for her moving forward." And what's possible is not a miraculous recovery. Throughout Season One, Jessica's attempts to move on with her life were thwarted at every turn by a gleeful Kilgrave. But with him out of the picture, the cracks in her coping skills will become more apparent.
So this is already an inconsistency. As established in the Netflix series Jessica was "Jewel" a superhero when Kilgrave enslaved her and started his long abuse of her. So what could have had her possibly "messed up" before Kilgrave?
I suspect it is the loss of her family, which had hardly any relevance to her in season 1 other than going back to her family home, seeing Patsy's mum uncaring nature towards her and finding out some chemical could be the reason for her powers. This is not enough to support this next quote...
"I learned from working on Dexter that you can advance the character, but you never want to cure the character," Rosenberg said. "With Dexter, the moment he felt guilt or accepted that he was 'bad,' the show's over. He's no longer a sociopath. The equivalent for us would be if Jessica somehow recovered from the damage that had been done to her. People don't just heal, you don't go through that just to say, 'Oh, he got arrested, he's in jail, I'm OK now.'" Kilgrave's fate was a little more final than a jail sentence, but the same principle applies for Jessica. "That trauma is a huge part of who she is now."
There are two major mistakes with this quote. The first is trying to apply the rules of Dexter to Jessica Jones. Dexter is a sociopath and by default has to remain "crazy" to be the character he is. But Jessica isn't required to remain "broken" or "troubled" because she is a former hero turned P.I.
In future installments she is planned to be a part of a superhero team called the Defenders, but how can that work if she is this troubled woman reluctant to be a superhero still? The last line "That trauma is a huge part of who she is now." is a terrible idea as it implies she will forever be this "troubled" woman as she is defined by it because it is "a huge part of
who she is now".
My personal gripe is that I would love to see her interracial relationship blossom more and solidify with Luke, but it seems she is to remain "Troubled" and it will act as a wedge between them.
But back to the quotes...
From Den of Geeks:
"I think one of the things I would be able to do now, that’s harder to do in the first season, is to really expand on the ensemble...I would hope to further expand on the ensemble, and on Jessica’s world. She ends in a very different place than she started off. She’s still going to be Jessica Jones — that is not going to change. She will continue to drink and make mistakes, and accidentally drop people onto train tracks, but something has changed for her by the end of this season, and I’d just love to explore that in the second season."
As I said before THIS is her idea of who Jessica Jones is. A struggling troubled woman with powers and not a former hero that became a P.I. She no longer has just hung up the cape and has a dark distant past. The focus now is just her dark past and everything else plays second fiddle to it as that is who she is now according to Rosenberg.
It would be the equivalent of having a series of Batman which is just focused on the death of his parents and how it effects him. Rather than what he stands for and the talents he has for getting the tasks in front of him done.
The focus is in the wrong place, it's inconsistent to the story told in season 1 (Jewel/messed up pre Kilgrave) and is completely not her character.
Alterations from comic to TV is fine but a complete overhaul of her character to then become someone else is just wrong. Jessica Jones isn't just a woman who suffered trauma, that doesn't define who she is.
I hope you understand what I am saying better now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yPHzOZs44M
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chell-glados
8 years ago
"So this is already an inconsistency. As established in the Netflix series Jessica was "Jewel" a superhero when Kilgrave enslaved her and started his long abuse of her. So what could have had her possibly "messed up" before Kilgrave?"
You really need to seperate comic and show in your head. She is a "superhero" for a DAY in the show. She saves Malcolm, Kilgrave sees and gets his claws in her. That's it.
In regards to the rest of the quotes I think it'll be fine to have her still suffering for the 2nd season but after that it'll be good to see growth and her attempt to move on a bit more, possibly with Luke.
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satterthm
8 years ago
^Yeah this. Maybe its just boiling down to personal preference at this point but I don't want Jessica to solve all her problems and have her PTSD cured in s2. That would be boring, imo. I'm fine with more struggles and conflict. Doesn't matter if she's got super strength, a mental illness is still a mental illness and I would rather see someone work really hard at managing that instead of having a "noble" and heroic path to recovery. Nothing wrong with the latter but I would prefer to see something different for a change.
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derrick-beaumont
8 years ago
It's kinda funny with how this conversation has gone lol.
I mean usually I hear women complain about how women are portrayed as weak vulnerable creatures in the media, yet I am saying she should be portrayed as strong enough to cope with her issues and rise above it and you want her to stay "traumatised". And at one point you thought I had a problem with women right? lol 😜
But seriously I just can't accept her having PTSD in a normal sense because her situation is very abnormal.
I will explain myself again...
A person suffering from PTSD has anxiety and fear of a repeat of the same situation that caused the trauma in the first place. With Jessica's powers no normal person could invoke this feeling. So it wouldn't be something felt in a general day to day like a normal person.
She would need to come across someone with powers that could potentially put her in a helpless or vulnerable state to then invoke the feelings of fear and anxiety.
So for me personally I don't see how it can be possible logically, despite how "normal" it would be for a long recovery process. The fact is she isn't normal so the same rules cannot apply, just like Rosenberg's "Dexter" argument.
But I guess it comes down to your personal preference as you say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yPHzOZs44M
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satterthm
8 years ago
Women can be strong and have PTSD at the same time. Those things are not mutually exclusive. Women can be strong and have weaknesses throughout their lifetime. There's so much more to being strong then being physically powerful and not letting things make you have negative emotions. Women are not "weak" because they have an illness.
I think the problem is that you are conflating trauma and mental illness with weakness. I really don't think you're getting what we're saying. Yes, Jessica is a superhuman but the idea is that the writers want to depict trauma and mentally illness in a realistic manner (As realistic as you can get) They want to reach out to people (not just women but women make up a good amount of the audience) who experience ptsd and trauma. So to have Jessica quickly be cured from her PTSD would not be realistic and we already have tons of stories about people overcoming an illness within a short time frame. If thats what interests you then fine. If you think the writers making a story about PTSD be depicted as more realistic will ruin Jessica's character, then that's your opinion. But maybe you should be a bit more open minded and learn that an illness doesn't make someone weak and what makes us want to root for a woman protagonist is having faith that she'll find inner peace and happiness along the way. IMO rooting for Jessica to find happiness and coping with her illness is what makes me admire her so much as a character, because its a struggle but I know she can achieve it.
People are interested in seeing women characters with complex and interesting/entertaining character arcs. Having a women be "strong" because she has super strength and beats people up does no cut it for a lot of people nowadays. We want intricate and imperfections because imperfections are what's interesting.
tl;dr her situation being 'abnormal' is not relevant, audiences want imperfect women characters who struggle and have flaws. Women can be strong and have flaws. Jessica can be a tough badass chick while also battling trauma. Like I said before, you can have faith that talented writers can achieve that. You're stuck on the idea that a superwoman would not have trauma the same way non powered women would which could be true but that doesn't really leave as much room for creativity, does it? It would be boring if trauma did not affect Jessica because she's a superwoman. We want entertainment and conflict.
If you can't accept that Jessica might be portrayed as experiencing trauma in a realistic manner that women irl do then this probably isn't the show for you.
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derrick-beaumont
8 years ago
Women can be strong and have PTSD at the same time. Those things are not mutually exclusive. Women can be strong and have weaknesses throughout their lifetime. There's so much more to being strong then being physically powerful and not letting things make you have negative emotions. Women are not "weak" because they have an illness.
I think the problem is that you are conflating trauma and mental illness with weakness. I really don't think you're getting what we're saying. Yes, Jessica is a superhuman but the idea is that the writers want to depict trauma and mentally illness in a realistic manner (As realistic as you can get) They want to reach out to people (not just women but women make up a good amount of the audience) who experience ptsd and trauma. So to have Jessica quickly be cured from her PTSD would not be realistic and we already have tons of stories about people overcoming an illness within a short time frame. If thats what interests you then fine. If you think the writers making a story about PTSD be depicted as more realistic will ruin Jessica's character, then that's your opinion. But maybe you should be a bit more open minded and learn that an illness doesn't make someone weak and what makes us want to root for a woman protagonist is having faith that she'll find inner peace and happiness along the way. IMO rooting for Jessica to find happiness and coping with her illness is what makes me admire her so much as a character, because its a struggle but I know she can achieve it.
You are making two mistakes.
1. When did I say Strength means physical strength? I am pretty sure you would need to be strong minded to overcome any kind of hardship and not just physically strong. Have a strong will to overcome a situation and think "I refuse to be a victim/let this beat me".
2. Your idea of what could happen isn't matching Rosenberg's idea presented in the interview. Let me remind you
"Throughout Season One, Jessica's attempts to move on with her life were thwarted at every turn by a gleeful Kilgrave. But with him out of the picture, the cracks in her coping skills will become more apparent."
"She’s still going to be Jessica Jones — that is not going to change. She will continue to drink and make mistakes, and accidentally drop people onto train tracks"
^This is the idea of Jessica that we will be presented with. A woman with issues that has trouble coping.
And as nice as this sounds:
IMO rooting for Jessica to find happiness and coping with her illness is what makes me admire her so much as a character, because its a struggle but I know she can achieve it.
Rosenberg already countered this with:
"I learned from working on Dexter that you can advance the character, but you never want to cure the character," Rosenberg said. "With Dexter, the moment he felt guilt or accepted that he was 'bad,' the show's over. He's no longer a sociopath. The equivalent for us would be if Jessica somehow recovered from the damage that had been done to her."
"That trauma is a huge part of who she is now."
Which suggests Rosenberg doesn't want any recover at all or she will stop being Jessica in her eyes. How do you root for someone destined to never recover?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yPHzOZs44M
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satterthm
8 years ago
Rape trauma and PTSD have no cure. Depression/anxiety has no cure. People who have mental illness have mental illnesses for their entire lives (but they can manage it through help and support)
What I'm interpreting is very different from what you are. What I see is Rosenberg saying that she doesn't want Jessica to be "cured" from PTSD and trauma because there is no cure for that. You can still grow as a person and make mistakes along the way. What I'm reading here is that the road to recovery for Jessica is going to be long and take a lot of work, not that Jessica will never learn how to manage her mental illness. I'm sure at some point in the series, Jessica will find positive coping skills but struggling to cope with a mental illness is something that takes a lifetime of work. Trauma will always be a part of a rape victim's life, Rosenberg is correct when she says that. That's how trauma work. I reiterate, I don't want a protagonist who doesn't struggle and who doesn't screw up. It doesn't define a person but trauma is still a part of how their brain works now.
I mean, if Jessica suddenly has perfect coping skills and her PTSD is "cured" then I'm not interested in watching that kind of show, imo. I'm still disagreeing here, I believe the point is that Jessica can recover, not that she's destined to be miserable and suffer forever but the path to that kind of life is going to take a ton of work and its not going to be solved in one season.
Would you keep watching Daredevil if Matt Murdock's disability was cured? Probably not or at least it wouldn't be as interesting. That's the point she's making. I don't expect Matt Murdock's disability to be cured. I don't expect Jessica's disability to be cured either.
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derrick-beaumont
8 years ago
But you can't apply that same ruling for Matt and Jessica as they are fundamentally different.
Matt's disability is also what gives him his power so to be rid of it is to be rid of his power. Jessica's trauma is just a facet of her being and not essential to her being. It's not a key thing for her to be traumatised basically.
Depression and anxiety do have cures as I myself have got through them without medication and no longer suffer from them, as I bet a lot of other people have also. The same can be said about PTSD and rape trauma as not everyone "suffers" from it for the rest of their lives.
Some people find outlets to cope and overcome their issues and some find distractions to take their minds off of the issues so that their minds become trained to not think or worry about the issue.
There have been cases of using MDMA to overcome and cure PTSD.
It is not set in stone that these issues must be for life, to choose for her to be this way is a negative outlook all for the sake of drama and not understanding that her character can be anything more than how her state of mind was in the "Alias" run.
The problem with taking a long time also to overcome the issues is that there is no guarantee that the JJ show will have a 3rd season, so she may end with still being a troubled woman not knowing how to cope properly.
Also something to consider...
Jessica has already been dealing with her issues for years, her trauma isn't recent. She relived the fear due to Kilgrave returning but she has overcome him and killed him now. So by rights her road to recover should run a lot more smoothly as whatever coping methods she already had (Like the mentioning street names to calm her anxiety) should be much more effective with her mind at peace knowing that the only man she feared and reason for her trauma is finally gone for good.
That's why for me I wouldn't see her recovery as something sudden or fast as she has already been dealing with it for years prior to the return of Kilgrave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yPHzOZs44M
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Reepicheep14
8 years ago
Great news and I'm interested to see the approach tbh especially the feminist themes as well as other social issues revolving. I hope they can get Robin Wright to direct some episodes next season since she did a great job on House of Cards season 4.
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derrick-beaumont
8 years ago
What feminist themes?
You do realise this show is directed towards men right?
Unless you think telling a message of a woman's perspective of abuse is directed at women who already know this fact. That would be a wasted message.
Also the showing of different types of women and how women abuse and control people.
Women already know all these facts, so doing it for them would be a waste. This is more to show/teach men.
...Or maybe we can include ignorant women also lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yPHzOZs44M
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derrick-beaumont
8 years ago
You really need to seperate comic and show in your head. She is a "superhero" for a DAY in the show. She saves Malcolm, Kilgrave sees and gets his claws in her. That's it.
Time doesn't matter. She was of the mindset to be a hero. she believed in herself and her abilities to do some good in the world and wasn't "messed up" before Kilgrave.
That is an inconsistency my friend.
The only trouble we have seen before Kilgrave is her childhood which bared no real relevance as I stated in my previous post. Unless of course they are just going to invent a new problem to keep her "troubled".
In regards to the rest of the quotes I think it'll be fine to have her still suffering for the 2nd season but after that it'll be good to see growth and her attempt to move on a bit more, possibly with Luke.
She needs to have her head in order to be able to work as a team member in "The Defenders". How will she be as a team player when she is reluctant to be a hero in the first place? How can anyone rely on her when she is always drinking?
Sure you could say "Well people relied on her in her series" but the difference is there will be other capable heroes involved in The Defenders, so why would they need to rely on a troubled drunk when they have other capable people to rely on?
Just think about the big picture for a second rather than individual story, as JJ S2 will be released after The Defenders. Also Trish (Patsy) Walker is set to become Hellcat as superhero member of The Defenders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yPHzOZs44M
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chell-glados
8 years ago
I didn't see it like that tbh. She doesn't so much decide to be a superhero. She just has a discussion with Trish (when she's drinking I think?) and helps out one guy in trouble. It's not like she ever went patrolling to purposely fight crime. It doesn't, necessarily, prove she didn't already have issues.
And I didn't realise Defenders was before JJ season 2. That sucks a bit. I just don't want them to rush it and have her magically be fixed.
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