could you relate with qohen's thinking ?
everything adds up to nothing.
what is the point of anything ?
share your thoughts.
Zero sum games, for every rich man, there must be the poor to make up for his excesses
http://myimpressionz.tk
Correction: what management thought. Qohen believed the opposite.
shareagree !!
Glad I kept reading, you stopped me from having to write it. :D
imdb, once for discussing movies, now a facebook substitute. Off topic and all drama.
As indicated by the recurring black-hole nightmare and him insisting that "we are dying", he was really in an ambivalent state up until the very end where he let himself fall into the black hole, fully accepted the decaying nature of our universe.
sharei could really relate to qohen.
intense. hyperactive. introversion. introspective. looking for a reason. searching for answers to the questions that matter. not being different for the sake of it but because it is really who we are. being utterly honest with yourself and your feelings. needing to see through stuff after being able to sift through the paraphernalia/dregs. needing to feel liberated. almost psychedelic. almost needing to be feel different.
Curious.
I got that he wasn't utterly honest with himself. Well, until the end, that is.
We simply want to go home.
Science can't explain everything, but religion can't explain anything.
Well I guess I can see the sense behind Managements thinking - it does kind of make sense believing in the big bang sort of thing that everything when put together is nothing.
I agree with the poster above Quohen didn't exactly agree with that (nor was it really proved at any point according to the movie).
Lead me to this article on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meaning_of_life#Popular_views
there is an inherent flaw in thinking along these lines.
if everything adds up to nothing, then how does it matter what i do or how i live or what actions i perform.
why should a worker wake up in the morning ? why should i drink a cup of coffee ?why should i give a beggar alms ? why should i let an old man have my seat in a bus ? why should i stare at mathematical equations for long hours as if they are talking to me ? why should i marry ? why should i make an effort to please my boss ? why should software/internet giants strive to make profits ? why should a student strive for good grades ?
if everyone in the world realizes or accepts this, the world would not be what it is today. the hopelessness which would engulf our world. the sense of inevitability which would stick to us like some embryonic fluid.
I think you didn't catch the idea of the movie at all.
We were being shown how WE survive knowing about about it (nothing to nothing).
We deceive ourselves, that how we do. We believe in God, some kill themselves, some work 14 hours a day so the can distract themselves, some do drugs, etc (this list can go on for a while). We do all kinds of things.
Agreed. As Plato wrote in the Republic, it is necessary that there be some myths.
But the question remains as to why do we do this, i.e. deceive ourselves. Nihilism seems to be perfectly valid objectively, at least if we disregard its paradox of incompleteness (if nothing is true, than also the proposition that "nothing is true" is not true). Then again, such disregard itself is bound to be purely subjective, by which I mean determined by our own personal experiences. There is a choice here between nihilism and deception (the choice of some kind of ideology).
So I gather a further idea from thinking about this film: that ontology (the branch of philosophy that studies being as such - the area of Qohen's experise, "being crunching") is reducible to ethics. We are presented with a void. The question is what do we do with it, and with ourselves.
The appeal for self-deception is too strong. We, by design, are hardwired to run away from pain.
The pain of a meaningless life is too great. We feel better trying to believe in something bigger than us. And most people manage to do that. A religion, a cause (freedom of Chechnya), grow offsprings, etc are all good approaches. Growing kids also gives a sense of continuity so it feels like perpetuation. Help people in need is also very fulfilling.
Actually, when talking to people, I do suggest some of the options above.
if everything adds up to nothing, then how does it matter what i do or how i live or what actions i perform.
why should a worker wake up in the morning ? why should i drink a cup of coffee ?why should i give a beggar alms ? why should i let an old man have my seat in a bus ? why should i stare at mathematical equations for long hours as if they are talking to me ? why should i marry ? why should i make an effort to please my boss ? why should software/internet giants strive to make profits ? why should a student strive for good grades ?
if everyone in the world realizes or accepts this, the world would not be what it is today. the hopelessness which would engulf our world. the sense of inevitability which would stick to us like some embryonic fluid.
okay this is probably going to be too personal, sorry about that.
there is no flaw "in thinking along these lines". thinking along any line thought up by anyone can be used to evolve our thinking. the flaw, if you allow me to call it so, is in thinking there is some universal reason for the actions you/we do, without being absolutely certain of it. (and i'm obviously not talking about any kind of belief here - there is difference between believing and knowing)
i think we're only talking about different perspectives. let's suppose "you" wouldn't be giving a *beep* about what I do when I wake up in the morning. now i might not give a *beep* about what anyone else thinks about what i do when i wake up in the morning because i still would have my own reason and my own logic. so does that make it more believable for anyone else? no. it only works for me. because i believe/know what i must/should/need to do in order to... whatever because of... whatever.
i don't want to hurt you, or anything, but judging from your questions, you seem to have thought about being a 21st century rebel and all, but really you're just too afraid to be one. it seems to me that you have done the things you are questioning without ever thinking them through. or if you have thought them through, then your reasons for doing them are not your own. it could be the philosophy of a friend, a celebrity, the belief system of a religion, etc. why don't you try giving an answer by yourself to those questions? to make them your own. feel like you own them. create your little universe with its own little laws. whatever floats your boat. only for it to be shattered again and again. and you'll have to rebuild it again and again. each time it will be better, like in the film, it's gonna be closer and closer to 100% but... will it ever reach 100%?
i think it's either
1. doing these things you mentioned unconsciously, without ever thinking them through
2. accepting some other belief system as your own
3. giving your own reasons to do those things, and be happy about them, cause they WORK FOR YOU, and if they don't, well, no one else is to blame, but you. so you can fix it by yourself. it's pretty righteous if you ask me.
my favorite line throughout the film by Ben Whishaw:
"You are not dying. Although, in a way from the moment of birth we all begin to die. Call it divinely planned obsolescence. Soon or late, beggar or king, death is the end of all things. Why, life might be seen as a virus infecting the perfect organism of death."
if everything adds up to nothing, then how does it matter what i do or how i live or what actions i perform.
why should a worker wake up in the morning ? why should i drink a cup of coffee ?why should i give a beggar alms ? why should i let an old man have my seat in a bus ? why should i stare at mathematical equations for long hours as if they are talking to me ? why should i marry ? why should i make an effort to please my boss ? why should software/internet giants strive to make profits ? why should a student strive for good grades ?
if everyone in the world realizes or accepts this, the world would not be what it is today. the hopelessness which would engulf our world. the sense of inevitability which would stick to us like some embryonic fluid.
Dear schrilax,
Not believing in a meaning for such things does not equal despair.
It is impossible to know for sure [if there is any meaning to all this], therefore your beliefs are not based on anything that you can trust 100%. It's faith, or intuition or a hunch. But that is never good enough for anything else is it? Let's say when you go to a doctor not feeling well, he tell you "im not gonna run any tests I have a hunch you'll be fine in a week", you'll go find another doctor. But for dealing with life for most people a hunch is just fine.
I think the film is brilliant and portrays perfectly the Absurd and what we have can find in life to give it some meaning, like love friendship or a goal. I think you should read The Myth of Sisyphus and The Plague by Albert Camus.
"Since the order of the world is shaped by death, mightn’t it be better for God if we refuse to believe in Him and struggle with all our might against death, without raising our eyes toward the heaven where He sits in silence."share
Tarrou nodded.
"Yes. But your victories will never be lasting; that’s all."
Rieux’s face darkened.
"Yes, I know that. But it’s no reason for giving up the struggle."
"No reason, I agree. Only, I now can picture what this plague must mean for you."
"Yes. A never ending defeat."…
"Who taught you all this, doctor?"
The reply came promptly:
"Suffering.
Camus - The Plague
I didn't get how this is anything negative at all. Because if everything adds up to nothing, nothing adds up to everything. Meaning we could make everything out of nothing! The universe is infinite and we can remake things eternally, instead of running out of the heat death of the universe after all the black holes have evaporated. Which is really much more of a snore than creating everything out of nothing.
sharehttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt2333804/board/thread/232228974?d=232744726#232744726
if there is always enough of everything available, then why should anyone care for anything at all ? uniformity and equality will prevail. would the world remain interesting at all ? everything would lose its value.
would humans strive for anything anymore ? would all research stop ? would the world stop improving ?
End of the day is there a point to it if there is no afterlife, no reward or pay off.
From what we can tell we're the only living creatures in an essentially 'dead' universe, dead as in what we deem life any way.
Maybe we are an oddity?
Maybe it is all up there for us to expand and take?
It's the impossible question.
Only one way to find out if it all means anything and that is reach the end of our journey. Sadly history kind of shows we won't be coming back to share that information.
What comes first the chicken or the egg, life has to start somewhere first, maybe it's started with us? If we're the first life in this universe then aliens do not exist.
If you discovered for a fact all was for nought would it change you? Change how you live? Would you still live by the constraints of society?
If I had definite proofs it would be party time all the way to the grave.
It's why I think we have religion, living to just not exist would drive people crazy.
I'm not spiritual and not sure where the idea comes from I see oblivion and it scares the crap out of me, I like this form I am currently in, I enjoy the experience of life even when it is awful. An awful life for me would still be better than non-existence.
Even just being my own mind alone without body, I could deal with that as long as I am aware and exist.
imdb, once for discussing movies, now a facebook substitute. Off topic and all drama.
We could also go back to physics and that the universe only exists because it is observed theory.
SO much we do not know and never will, everything is theory, 400 years from now if man still exists he'll be laughing at our sciences and beliefs as we do those of 400 years ago. Our most cutting edge science will be wives tales to them.
imdb, once for discussing movies, now a facebook substitute. Off topic and all drama.
can listen to this on hours at end. enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQI8FdoPFjQ