This story hardly steals from Twilight at all. - Fifty Shades of Grey (2015) Discussion

[–] isundling 8 years ago

No...you are not wrong...when EL James wrote the fan fiction "Master of the Universe", she used the names Edward for Christian...Bella for Ana..Rose was Kate..Emmett was Elliot....and on and on...the story of 50 Shades was the same...Edward was the BDSM guy and Bella the naive virginal college grad..Jacob was Jose..but the story was 50 Shades...when she was approached about publishing her work as a book, she had to legally change the character's names...hence..Christian and Ana...I read the Masters of the Universe online...but I just couldn't wrap my head around Edward being a sadist/Dominant sexual being...as he was a 17 virgin as was Bella at 18..

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[–] digitaldiva 8 years ago

Rynoll, Fifty Shades did use Twilight as the template and lifted dialogue and sequences from Twilight. E.L. James even used the Pacific Northwest as her setting but because she knew nothing about that geographic area, got it wrong. At it's heart, Twilight is a dark romance about a virginal girl who falls in love with a handsome stranger with a secret - in one the secret is that he is a vampire, in the other, he's a sexual sadist.

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[–] RynoII 8 years ago

Okay thanks. But the rest of the plot is not like Twilight in tone at all, it seems. I mean there is a war between vampires and werewolves, like literally two groups at war.

There are no groups at war in Fifty Shades and there is no battle plot at all. It just seems very different for me, unless I am not seeing the similarity, aside from a sexual sadist main character? The main character being a sexual sadist is nothing original, to Twilight though.

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[–] digitaldiva 8 years ago

Hi Rynoll,

The first Twilight novel dealt with the teens meeting, and their love affair. It didn't go into too deeply into the war between vampire and werewolves, that was for the subsequent books. The vampire clans came in later books.

E.L. James started writing on a Twilight site for the first novel, not the subsequent ones. She took elements of the love story, the fact that the characters can't live without each other and borrowed freely from the elements involving the family dynamic. By the way, there is no sex in the Twilight books, but a great deal of emotion missing from Fifty Shades of Grey.

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[–] isundling 8 years ago

A little bit of sex on the honeymoon...some good vampire sex in the last one..and there a lot more of Edward's difficulty of staying a virgin..and telling Bella she is not making it easy on him..they had was more mental sex in the books.

I didn't really feel much emotion in the first book...the one difference..Ana's week after was more emotional in the book..the movie ended with them both at the elevators...kind of anti climatic..looks like it was available as an alternate ending, but we should get to see more of that at the beginning of Darker..and both Darer and Freed are way more emotional for Christian especially...50 Shades we just don't see his utter desolation.

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[–] digitaldiva 8 years ago

Hi isundling,

Can you be specific about what book you are referring to? Is it Fifty Shades or Twilight. I found the first Twilight novel loaded with emotion which was the main reason for its success. Meyer created complete characters in her novel, something E.L. James didn't. She knew how to push a plot forward, as simple as the plot in the first Twilight novel was - Fifty Shades was just a lot of goofy inner dialogue and sex scenes, no real story.

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[–] isundling 8 years ago

The first paragraph was about the Twilight series...they spent a lot of alone time together in the books..which made the movie a little difficult, as it seemed as if everything was happening too fast...plus the agony Edward felt towards always wanting to kill Bella,was not portrayed enough in the movie.

With Darker and Freed,EL gave us more and better stories..

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[–] digitaldiva 8 years ago

Hi isundling,

I was talking about the Twilight novel, not the later movies. There was no sex in the first novel, the appeal of the book was emotional. I found the first Twilight novel readable since it had the benefit it of professional editing. To be honest, the writing of the Fifty Shades trilogy was so poor, I skimmed book two, and could never make it past three pages of the last novel. I don't know if the plotting was a better than the later Twilight novels.

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[–] isundling 8 years ago

I enjoyed all the Twilight books...but I will say I enjoyed the latter ones more only because they got out of that high school forbidden romance story...I mush preferred their adult story lines..but there were fans of all ages that enjoyed the books...I really don't think that will ever happen again in my lifetime..sad.

The 50 Shades trilogy was written for adults...with adult content..and similar to the Twilight book only in the latter books, their "romance" became the story..the courtship...the wedding ...the honeymoon..the threatening dark forces...the happy ending..

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[–] digitaldiva 8 years ago

Hi isundling,

I only read the one Twilight novel because my lit agent at the time suggested I stop with the first one since I write Young Adult novels. I thought it was a fairly well-written Young Adult romance. Most of the writers in my Young Adult group didn't care for the later books.

The main thing that E.L. James did right with Fifty, besides publishing it just as e-books took off, was keeping the romance the primary plotline.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] stacy0912 8 years ago

Just thought I'd share, I'm curled up on the couch and watching Twilight. This movie is still miles above FSOG. The soundtrack and 'feel' of the movie through the blue hue, giving it an Indie feel, hits the spot. Clearly, I need a life 👀

~Keep some room in your heart for the unimaginable~

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[–] digitaldiva 8 years ago

Hi Ms. Stacy - I know Twilight is filled with cheese and bad make-up, but no one can deny the chemistry between the two leads, the lingering stars, and the romance. I felt the same way with the first Twilight novel too, head and shoulders above Fifty Shades.

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[–] stacy0912 8 years ago

There's a reason why certain books have that 'it' factor and others don't. It's not about a gifted writer, but a passionate one. Stephenie Meyer was passionate about Twilight. EL was passionate about Christian. You can tell she was in love with that character. Ana? Not so much.

When you write from your heart, something magical always happens. Passionate writers are like pressure cookers with their life's contents building up over the years, ready to burst out on paper. My theory is, this is why their first books are usually their best. After they get it out, they start writing what they should write, rather than what moves them.

~Keep some room in your heart for the unimaginable~

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[–] digitaldiva 8 years ago

I think you made a valid point, Stacy. Romance writers have to show passion on the page or the reader won't feel it. Stephenie Meyer loved Bella as well as Edward and it shows in the first book; E.L. James, however, had no feeling for Ana and wrote a zero.

I agree with you about writing from the heart. The minute Meyer was forced to continue the Twilight story for money, her writing weakened.

I think some writers are natural story tellers with many tales to share. Others may be great stylist, but are more detached from their subject and can feel it in their writing. Some writers have only one story to tell like Meyers and James.

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[–] India_Ana 8 years ago

by digitaldiva
» Sun Jul 24 2016 07:08:49

I agree with you about writing from the heart. The minute Meyer was forced to continue the Twilight story for money, her writing weakened.

I really, REALLY, hope that when the 10th Anniversary Edition of Breaking Dawn comes out, that Forever Dawn is on the flip side. I want Bella's pregnancy from her point of view. (I tweeted my wish to SM on Twitter. I tweeted the Fickle Fish Films account.)

You would be able to see if it was better written than: NM, E & BD. Since she was done with the first draft, IIRC, when the publishers suggested a trilogy. I think if she could rework Twilight for Life and Death, she should be able to finish Forever Dawn. *crosses-fingers*

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[–] saikano_75 8 years ago

How was Edward controlling and manipulative?

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[–] isundling 8 years ago

Always trying to keep her out of, or away from what was happening...I felt that both Bella and Ana would have been better prepared if they knew what was "out there"..keeping them in the dark, to keep them safe?...not so good.

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[–] India_Ana 8 years ago

I haven't read the books, but I've seen the first movie several times. There are similarities to Twilight ... but I didn't write them down and can't remember them all off the top of my head. Though one stands out.

The elevator scene where Christian can't keep his hands off Ana. That is based on a classroom scene in Twilight when the teacher turns out the lights for a film, IIRC. Both days when the lights were shut off Bella & Edward had to grip their chairs/table to keep from going at each other. "Well, that was interesting."

Next time I catch the movie, I'll try to remember to grab a notebook and jot these things down.

[Edit]

I was watching some video clips on YouTube:

Ana is intimidated by much prettier females, and doesn't understand why Christian would want to see her. Ditto, Bella, who couldn't understand what Edward saw in her.
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=47s

Ana is clumsy ... just like Bella. Her clumsiness frustrates Christian, just as Bella's clumsiness did Edward.
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=54s

Both Ana & Bella love to read literature.
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=1m59s

Christian is attracted to Ana, wanting to get to know all about her ... just as Edward did Bella. (Which was because he couldn't read her mind.)
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=1m49s

Ana does an internet search for Christian to learn more about him ... Bella did an internet search to figure out what Edward was.
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=2m23s

Ana chews on her bottom lip. Ditto Bella.
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=2m54s

Ana works at a hardware store. Bella worked at a sporting goods store. Ana has a distant relationship with her mother ... so does Bella, once she moves to Forks. Ana's mother didn't show up for her college graduation, and Bella's mogher didn't show up to her high school graduation.
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=3m4s
http://twilightsaga.wikia.com/wiki/Newton's_Olympic_Outfitters

Christian doesn't do 'the girlfriend' thing ... Ana is his first girlfriend. Bella is Edward's first girlfriend.
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=3m57s

Christian is seen as a stalker ... so is Edward.
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=5m11s

Elevator scene. Unfortunately, the scene where Bella & Edward struggle to keep their hands off of each other is only in the book.
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=5m58s

Christian takes Ana flying ... Edward puts Bella on his back and leaps through the trees and runs super fast.
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=6m11s

Ana is a virgin ... and so is Bella. Edward was also a virgin, but Christian isn't ... not sure why Ana had to stay the same a Bella.
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=7m29s

Christian plays the piano ... so does Edward.
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=8m16s

Ana's stepdad was at her college graduation ... Charlie was at Bella's high school graduation.
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=11m58s

A visit to Christian's parent's house.
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=13m3s

Twilight Beats:
https://youtu.be/atfIIDZRk9E?t=15m20s

Anastasia prefers to be called 'Ana' ... Isabella prefers to be called 'Bella.'

Christian doesn't sleep with Ana. Edward can't sleep at all. Though he has no qualms about staying with Bella all night while she sleeps.

Christian doesn't like himself very much ... neither does Edward.

[/Edit]

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[–] digitaldiva 8 years ago

Hi India_Ana,

There are tremendous similarities in the books since Fifty began as Twilight fanfiction. I'd save yourself a great deal of frustration and suggest you don't bother with the Fifty Shades books. E.L. James is not really a writer, she's a fan, and not a talented one, a lucky one. She started writing on a large fan site and got a following. She also started writing when e-books emerged and anyone with a Kindle could gain access to her writing. I do give her credit though, introducing BDSM, although she got it wrong, into her romance. That's what made it different from Twilight.

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[–] India_Ana 8 years ago

Hi, digitaldiva:

Yeah. I read excerpts of the 50 Shades trilogy, and that is why I haven't bought the books. I did download the fanfic it started out as a few months ago, but haven't read it yet either. The movie was okay, but it didn't entice me into wanting to read the books. So, I think I'll just watch the movies when they are on HBO, and be content with that.

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http://tinyurl.com/ProWhoosh

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[–] digitaldiva 8 years ago

Hi India_Ana,

Good idea - I plan to do the same.

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[–] RynoII 8 years ago

When people say that the author got BDSM wrong, is their a right way of doing it? I mean I myself am not into BDSM, but I do have some kinky sex fantasies. But I don't think peopl would tell me that my fantasies are 'wrong', or psychologically incorrect. Isn't a person allowed to feel how they want to about their own fantasies, even if it's with whips and spanks? Why does a person who is into that have to meet the expectations of the majority BDSM community?

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[–] merickson83 8 years ago

Although the movie uses BDSM to make the sex scenes seem exciting, narratively it is only interested in BDSM as a representation of Christian's inability to open up. His fixation on kinky activities is treated as something that is holding him back from being "normal." And it is implied that his lifestyle was brought on by childhood abuse. A lot of people in the real-life BDSM community are insulted by this portrayal.

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[–] digitaldiva 8 years ago

Hi merickson83,

That was another problem with Fifty's take on BDSM - E.L. James presented it as only sexual violence and made it into a sickness to be dealt with in therapy.

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[–] digitaldiva 8 years ago

Hi Rynoll,

First of all, BDSM is not always about sex, it about control, control the submissive willingly gives to the dominant, with "willingly" being the operative word. One of the major issues with the novel is that Grey puts his needs above everyone. E.L. James wrote about a kinkster who was a sexual sadist and sexual acts, not a dominant.

When a person attends a BDSM function, you meet people who actually are into the lifestyle and let you know what they need. They are not coerced into it.

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[–] isundling 8 years ago

Except we never saw Christian in a BDSM relationship with a submissive..so was the Red Room accurate?...were the playthings that we saw accurate?...was the contract, that Ana never signs..accurate?..the director has said they had a "expert" on the set...the book goes into more detail about how Christian treated his submissives...In Grey, he talks about all the rules that he was breaking after he meets Ana..

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[–] merickson83 8 years ago

I don't know how realistic the "gear" is. Someone else will have to comment on that. What I do know is that the offer Christian lays out when he's first showing Ana the room (essentially, "put up with this and you get to have sex with me") is a pretty big misrepresentation of what an actual healthy dominant-submissive dynamic is.

In the movie, the idea of consent within the context of BDSM is trivialized into a running gag about Christian badgering Ana to sign a contract, which ends up getting thrown out anyway for the sake of demonstrating that he's supposedly loosening up. The entire focus of the story is on Christian starting to become "normal," at the expense of a realistic depiction of, well, anything at all.

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[–] digitaldiva 8 years ago

Honestly, isundling, nothing about the movie was authentic. It was slick, Hollywood stuff. A writer friend of mine attended a class with an "expert" in New York. He charged by the hour to show writers of BDSM how to tie the proper knots. The reality is BDSM isn't always about sex, it's about emotions. We know that CG gave his "subs" money and a room so he could use them sexually. The book didn't go into how he treated them, how he spoke to them or anything else. Grey is a fantasy, like the other Fifty Shades books and not based in realty.

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[–] RynoII 8 years ago

Oh okay I see. Do you think the movie might have been better or more realistic, if Anna researched BDSM herself, and then told Christian that his BDSM is incorrect or misguided and he is not a true representation of that community?

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[–] isundling 8 years ago

Well...the book Grey did in some ways...he said he never took his subs out on dates..he never met them at their work...he never went to where they lived away from the weekend they spent with him..never introduced them to friends or family, they never talked back/spoke only when spoken to..they always kept their eyes down..so it was a "big deal" when he did all those things with Ana...I think he was very lax with his so called "rules" with Ana in the playroom...I believe he really thought he could convince her to be a submissive...at least in the first few weeks..but he had made too many major mistakes...and he knew it...I have watched a few shows on late night TV about submissives...male and female...and their was very little sex involved..or at least "coupled sex"...was kind of icky, but that's just me...no judgement here.

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[–] merickson83 8 years ago

It would have been better just because at least then something interesting would be happening. I'd actually be willing to look past the unrealism. My real core complaint about the whole thing is that I never understood why the two characters were so intensely into each other to begin with. Maybe that's my personal problem, I don't know. But as far as I can tell, this is a story about a man who is into BDSM for the wrong reasons and a woman who is willing to participate in BDSM for the wrong reasons being attracted to each other for no reason. Again, that might be interesting, if only the movie were aware that that's what's going on.

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[–] francesca-miller-1 8 years ago

You are right, merickson83, and if the film had been better, you as a member of the audience would have understood the attraction. A book can get away with the reader creating images in his or her head, but film is a visual medium. The audience needed to be able to see the attraction without someone who read the book explaining it to them. The attraction between the two should have been immediate and combustible, but this film left the audience with something bland instead. I knew it would be financially successful given the source material, but I also knew the hurdles the film would have to overcome because of that same source material.

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[–] isundling 8 years ago

I watched an interesting weekly show on PBS..it takes different subjects and how movies fit into that subject..this one was about sex and movies...2 women professionals.. psychiatrist and medical doctor..and usually a guest..man or woman..the 3 movies were 50 Shades of Grey...Fatal Attraction and Last Tango in Paris...5o Shades was first up, and of course they both mention they had friends in the BDSM world that didn't care for the interpretation...and a remark that they were both Christian and Ana were love obsessed..which I am not sure of that one...then on to the other movies, Fatal Attraction was kind of funny, as the one doctor thought the female character was bat **** crazy.. and Last Tango was not a romantic movie at all...but the end result was they felt 50 Shades was truly a romance..

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[–] MydnightRose 8 years ago

I don't see Christian as being like Edward and I hate how people don't put the 2 in context. Edward is a perpetual 17yr old boy who probably didn't have much experience with girls before he got sick; plus vampires have a different way of thinking. He never wanted to hurt Bella and fought tooth and nail to keep her protected even from him and his insane blood lust. He didn't want her hanging around werewolves for a good reason because they are dangerous; and Jacob didn't want her around the Cullen's for a god reason because vampire are dangerous.

Christian is just a moronic stalker who has more in common with Ted Bundy than Edward Cullen.

1. BVS 2. TWS 3. Avenger

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[–] isundling 8 years ago

Uh..Ted Bundy murdered a lot of women...big difference...did you ever read "Master of the Universe" on the Internet?.. the fan fiction that 50 Shades came from...exactly the same story...only she used the names of Edward,Bella,and all the rest...but I just could not wrap my head around the idea of Edward being as sexual as Christian...Edward was a 17 year old virgin...Christian has his first sexual encounter at 15.

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[–] !!!deleted!!! (69137787) 8 years ago

Ted Bundy and Christian Grey do share a lot of the same characteristics but Christian doesn't murder them.
He gets them paranoid and scared to a certain point and then blackmails them.

I'd rather have Edward as a 17-year old virgin than Christian taken advantage of and molested at 15-years old. You don't do that to a child but it's a "love story" and "she changed him for the better" cliche so it gets a pass from fans.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] 8 years ago

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