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How They Could've Won Over Both Prometheus Fans and Haters


My contention is this movie split the baby and killed it with audiences because by writing Shaw out, they fell into an age-old trap of producing a sequel with the original movie's main star written out. It has never worked at the box office. Even the original Alien series was built around a star, Weaver, not around faceless, voiceless xenos who the general audience has no emotional connection to.

They should've instead had Shaw and David's derelict ship crash on a moon in the vicinity of the Engineers' world that turns out to house a xeno science lab, staffed by a small number of Engineers who could be dispensed of quickly in the beginning. They discover that the Engineers have kidnapped other humans and humanoids and are experimenting on them. There could even be a Walter android among them to keep the dual role angle for Fassbender, because the Engineers were exploring synthetic reproductive possibilities as well.

Shaw and David then find where other people are locked away in a cell and move to save them, but then David betrays her, deciding he wants to continue the experiments, and Shaw is trapped. Then the rest of the movie is Shaw and the other humans trying to escape their dungeon and get off the moon while David attacks them with his xeno creations. There could be a time lapse here even of years while David works on his science projects and bumps the humans off one by one before they get an escape opportunity. And we could still find out that David creates the classic xeno in the end. But the key is that, like Ripley, Shaw survives in the end.

This also avoids retreading the LONG opening Covenant section of yet another new and oblivious space crew landing on a foreign world, finding crashed derelict ships and getting infected with aliens. We did not need to see that yet again.

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I was a Prometheus hater and A:C won me over.

It's far from a great movie but, as an enjoyable enough popcorn romp, it does what it ways on the tin.

I agree that getting to know a crew who we all know will die out was a bit of a time sink but Krud's character's faith motivations felt realer than Shaw's.

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I thought that "faith" aspect was the worst-handled bit of characterization in the movie. The idea that he would blurt out that his company was against him because he's a "person of faith" was just ludicrous dialogue. Stuff no one said ever. And it was obvious expositionary dialogue that then went almost nowhere. His faith played no major role in the movie, other than one tiny "we need your faith now" line. It was pointless to even bring up this idea that he had some vague "faith" if it's going to amount to nothing.

Prometheus was smarter, smoother and subtler about incorporating religious themes into its storyline. That's why it was almost crazy to read the interview with Ridley where he said the Engineers sent Jesus to Earth. The movie didn't hit you on the head with anything obvious like that. It involved characters sincerely seeking out the origins of life and their own cosmic creators in a fully fleshed-out motivation. The Prometheus screenplay was just eons beyond Covenant's in depth and quality. The Covenant screenplay seems to have been written by someone who has never actually met a religious person but just read articles about them that were also written by someone who's never met any.

You could say David's character deals with religious themes by rejecting his own creator. There's something to it. But ultimately it just becomes a justification to make him fill his prescribed role in the plot. It's not explored as a serious theme.

Even the review on Ebert's site which loved Covenant bashes the religious aspect:

"a puzzling failure to develop the religious dimension laid out early in the script, except as it relates to science"

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/alien-covenant-2017

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Crucified xenos, a carpenter's nail for a necklace bauble, David and Walter's mimicking of Cain and Abel/Jesus and Judas, The Last Supper prologue with James Frano's character playing an ill Jesus, Eden with its forbidden fruit, DaVinci styled drawings from David, the music used, the opening scene with Weyland and an early David, etc.

Versus

Crucified xeno mural, a cross for a necklace bauble, Janek and co mimicking Jesus and the two others from the "Jesus wept" section of the new testament, Weyland's Ted talk prologue, baptism of fire for Holloway, choosing to believe, set on Christmas day, the resurrection on the xeno via Engineer etc.

Both seem silly to me.

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The lack of Shaw was not what did this movie in.

It was the script and the same old 'we are so dumb' characters (not unlike the characters in Prometheus - hence, I don't particularly miss Shaw).

Had those things been fixed, this film could have been saved.

At the end of the day - the Alien franchise is now definitely Fox's and Ridley Scott's baby - and I won't be fooled again as long as these morons are at the helm (to be fair - I won't expecting much after the Prometheus mess, but anyways).



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The lack of a great lead character played by a charismatic actor to anchor a film is always a problem. The Alien sequels knew that so well they resurrected Ripley after her death.

Prometheus created one of those with Noomi Rapace's Shaw. Please point me to the critics who savaged her character and performance in Prometheus. It didn't happen to any noticeable extent. She was one of the most universally liked elements of Prometheus.

It might've been a moot point if they found yet another charismatic lead female. They almost cast Rebecca Ferguson I heard and that might've worked. The most important thing in any movie star is that the audience of the opposite sex wants to have sex with them. Yep, that is what defines a star. No one finds Waterston attractive. She isn't a lead, she's a supporting character actor at best.

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Amigo - she could have been Pamela Andersen in her prime and this movie's script would still be utter crap.
Acting and scripts make or destroy films - the sex appeal might have been what you wanted, but I wanted a legit, hole-free sci fi story with decent sfx and good acting to boot.

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JediJones, as a Prometheus fan I would have been very happy with your script. It certainly would have killed two birds with one stone by continuing Shaw's storyline (even if by the end of the film we see her die) and David's betrayal and 'mad scientist' turn.

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Thanks. It would have cleared up the issue of just how easily David invaded the Engineer homeworld too. Their ship could've been taken out by defensive drones because they failed to provide a proper authentification code, causing it to crash land on the science lab planet. Perhaps in the end, the only way Shaw can escape is to summon help from the Engineers. At the end they land and take her into custody, providing the lead-in to the third film.

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Yep, I would have paid money to have seen that, definitely.

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This isn't the first time Scott has wanted to kill off a main character in an alien movie. If Scott had had his way back in 79 the ending of alien would have been very different. At the point ripley shoots the alien with the harpoon gun, the alien would have been unaffected by it, kept coming forward smashed ripley helmet with its inner jaw and ripped her head off. It would then have mimicked the voice of Dallas as it pushed buttons and made a captains log. That's right, the alien would have talked and been able to fly a space ship! Thank god Fox flew out to the set and pretty much threatened to fire Scott if he filmed that.

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Im not sure why there is so much hate for AC? To be fair, I was shocked that Prometheus received bad reviews too.
What other Sci Fi 18+ films with incredible graphics and a great story are coming out?
Ive seen AC twice now and plan to do one more viewing, as far as im concerned i would be greatful if one if these came out every year. But with all these so-called fan boys crying foul, get a grip. What better is there?
Support the genre, unless you want true generic 13+PG crap cycled out.
Go onto youtube, and there are explanations and theories put out, and within 2 days they are getting 100K+ views. People are interested. This site will become more popular as AC is bringing people here.
One poster above talked about having Shaw in it -- sure I would love to have seen that, but this story was very compelling. Sci fi and even CGI was incredible.
I was lucky enough to have enjoyed original Alien in theatres... people "then" used to just allow themselves to escape, and get involved in the story. This movie deserves no criticism.. it's not perfect, but damn, it's a ton of fun to watch.

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So, you want to support this rubbish because you don't want other rubbish? Good plan. And with all respect, fuck the theories. They're all worthless. We all had theories about Prometheus, look how that turned out.

Honestly, you sound like a battered wife trying to convince a cop you feel down the stairs and convincing yourself that it's ok, because it could worse. You don't understand the hate? Take a look around the board brobeans, it's explained in great detail why.

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Nah.. im no battered wife syndrome. I agree that all of the ideas posted could have been another movie between Pro and AC, but Ive also heard that this might be a possibility seeing as Ridley has said there could be 4 films before the link with A79.
But that the studios have greenlight two more prequels.
I get it, the film has holes.. i guess with watching the last supper and the David/Shaw story online- it gave me enough of a base to peak my expectations.

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Then you weren't paying any attention to Prometheus. Anyone who watched that, was pissed on by ac. And no, the shitty YouTube videos did nothing to answer any questions Prometheus proposed.

Like I said, battered wife syndrome.

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Nope. Wrong again. I dont need a Shaw or Ripley for it to be great. Daniels was fine. Fassbender is the greatest actor the series has ever had.

What im looking frwd to is how tge 1000s of eggs end up on lv426 in a jockey ship. That will complete it for me.

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I predict the "trilogy" ends with a bonus 3-minute YouTube video showing David sending the embyros there as promotion for Blomkampf's Alien 5.

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Ive liked this youtube guy called Hybrid Netwrk or somethibg like that. He has some great material.

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I follow a lot of youtube stuff. It's actually not one guy but a bunch of different people talking comic books, comic book TV shows, and movies. Sometimes I think they'll go into other waters like Star Wars, mostly anything geek basically.

I'm trying to go for an engaging, funny youtube channel so, if you have the time, take a look. Hope you enjoy what you see. Thanks in advance. A review of the movie here-https://youtu.be/fyYgj2Fpur0

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Wow, you keep ignoring the point of Prometheus and why ac was a shit sequel.

Asking where the alien came from is like asking where the shark came from in jaws. Where it comes from is not what makes it interesting, and the fact you think a troupe plot by numbers run of the mill monster movie is great speaks volumes about you.

The movie was bad, and not because shaw wasn't there, or because ripley wasn't there even though Scott said she would have a connection. The movie was bad because it ignored everything that it had built up in Prometheus. It retconned David into a pathetic loser with daddy issues, and disposed of the engineers like trash. Any semblance of interesting science fiction is gone. Support the genre? Sure, just let me know when that genre rolls by cos this sure as fuck wasn't it. The crew of the covenant might as well have been teenagers visit camp alien for spring break. David might as well have shown up with a bag of candy and van with blacked out windows he was so creepy. The "twist" was so phoned in you could see it coming 4 movies ago.

Oh and you won't be getting 4 more movies. Scott already went back on this. You'll get one if youre lucky. Considering how little business it's taken in I'd be shocked if fox didn't just shut it down. The fact this is the best alien movie since aliens means fuck all. They've all been dog shit ever since. Might as well say genisys was the best terminator since judgement day.

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I said I agreed with the OP about the arc from pro and that it would have been cool to see a movie about Shaw David arriving at the planet... along with the true background of the Engineers.
Thing is, the question mr. Potter will never be answered. Nobody will be satisfied with: " where we came from" or "where did the engineers come from" or "whete did the xenomorphs... wait!!! This movie actually did say where the xenomorphs came from. I think thats really effing cool.
So humans create synthetic, synthetic creates xeno (from black goo). We hear david explain that the black goo morphs into numerous different forms depending on host... and finally he created the eggs for the facehuggers.
Cmon man, thats pretty cool.
The crew itself?.. agreed, not very likeable characters, but they were just colonists, not marines like bill paxton or Reece- and those guys got screwed up pretty good by the xenos.
This crew got a dose of high incubating neomorphs that friggin came out of the back in like 6 hours flat. Of course they were unprepared. Who can prepare for that?
Walter was a bit of a let down, yes.. but David was truly evil, much like Ash was.
I get you dont like it, obviously not everyone can like a movie... much like 28 days later, so many people hated 28 weeks later. Not me, it was great. I just enjoyed it.. but now because everyone complained we wont get to see 28 months later.

And.. how can you say finding out the origin of the xeno is like finding out the origin of Jaws?. Jaws was a man eating great white.. we already know its origin...

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Oh, oh I see what the problem is now. You're stupid. Ok, sorry I wasted our time.

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Thanks chief. Ltr.

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while i enjoyed the film overall, you have nailed my main criticism:

"The movie was bad, and not because shaw wasn't there, or because ripley wasn't there even though Scott said she would have a connection. The movie was bad because it ignored everything that it had built up in Prometheus. It retconned David into a pathetic loser with daddy issues, and disposed of the engineers like trash. Any semblance of interesting science fiction is gone. "

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the more i find out about the background of alien* movies the more i realize the ones that have been successful and loved did so in spite of ridley scott, not really because of him.

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I think Prometheus was great except for the biologist who touches unknown lifeforms and the cartographer who gets​ lost.

It was good sci-fi and it dared to be different.

Covenant​ is basically a studios' answer to those who whined about xenomorph not being in Prometheus.

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