why is old Zero white and young zero indian????
I dont get it.
shareYes I wondered that too while I watched the film yesterday.
Yep, that had me confused. I was thinking, "Wait...Zero is clearly Indian or something, but F. Murray's a white guy who looks nothing like what he would've grown into." But it MUST have been deliberate casting for some reason, because the attention-to-detail level of the film seemed extreme. Maybe it's just another strangeity, intentionally confusing and intended to make you question the truth of the whole thing...
Other than that, I liked the movie and found it very, very funny--with its dry wit, exceptionally crafted visuals, and frequent madcap cartoonishness that felt all the more absurd given the settings and the main characters' demeanors. And I absolutely loooove the hotel and its color schemes!! ^0^
š© Power!share
Yep, that had me confused. I was thinking, "Wait...Zero is clearly Indian or something, but F. Murray's a white guy who looks nothing like what he would've grown into." But it MUST have been deliberate casting for some reason, because the attention-to-detail level of the film seemed extreme. Maybe it's just another strangeity, intentionally confusing and intended to make you question the truth of the whole thing...
Oh, really? Wow. I'm surprised. Guess my assumptions weren't too accurate. I was just a bit confused for much of the film because I really, really did not think that Abraham looked like an older Zero.
share"People's skin lightens as they age"
Well, no, quite the opposite, people skin get darker as we age.
Well, no, quite the opposite, people's skin gets lighter as we age.
Look at James Earl Jones, he's ghost white in his latest appearances, yet was dark in his youth. Skin tone is melanin, melanin, like other things, deteriorates with age, colour fades, and skin becomes translucent.(A feature that usually only white people have that the aging process can cause in darker skinned people.)
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/633647916171726848/tCS7Msjb.png
Remember, the dead are pale, aging is just the process of getting to that state.
I have to disagree. Movie actors are hardly a good example about apearance.
Everybody gets exposed to daily doses of sunlight, and apart from a temporal tan, the skins get darker by it, and also rougher and thicker through the years. All of that causes darkening of the skin. Some black people avoid the sun altogether precisely to avoid this. Ask any dermatologist. Or I can share some links.
Yes, I was wondering that myself. But I don't think that this movie is really that concerned with consistency
shareHow is old Zero white if young Zero was indian (if that is really what he is)? He's not, if you are born as something you don't change what you are. So he didn't change...duh?
shareI love it when someone who misses the point completely is all arrogant about it.
shareNo point to miss. They are actors and they are playing their respective roles. Nothing outside of what is given in the story and dialogue can change that. That's like asking why is someone who is not *blank* playing a character that is *blank*, its called acting.
shareOf course they're playing their respective roles. Obviously no one is questioning that.
The question is, "Why did they cast actors who look so different?"
In the context of the movie they don't seem very different. There was a large gap in time between the characters and the old Zero comes off a good amount older not just in age but life. Like he's been through a lot. The child Zero is very awkward and stilted (from his painful past) and the older one shows a real emotional complexity that is absent in the younger. It doesn't seem that weird to have such a change in personality and with the way they look, it feels pretty reasonable to have grown into the older one.
No, I don't think you get the point. Why was young Zero brown and old Zero white. No one was questioning personality, they were talking about skin colour.
sharebecause no one's skin or hair color changes as they age over several decades?
LOL, as they say on community, being not racist is the new racism
Seen a picture of Bill Cosby lately? He used to be much darker. This is true of many African Americans, so I'm guessing it could also be true of other people of colour. Could also be that young Zero spent a lot more time outside than older Zero. My children are of 'brown' races and have gotten considerably darker while living in the Caribbean. I expect that when we move to the Northeast later this year they will lighten up significantly.
shareBecause pigmentation can indeed change with age. Zero came from the middle east, but he spent a good part of his life in northern Europe, which means far less exposure to the sun. It can be argued that the proximity to the sun as well as aging and who know what else could have altered his pigmentation.
Realistically, they probably went with two actors that fit the part and said *beep* whomever gets hung up on the differences because this movie is about telling a good story, not the packaging of that story.
If there was a gender change without it in the plot, then I'd understand why people are so weirded out by this.
She doesn't get it.
shareA couple of years ago I went to a 50 year school reunion.
While I recognised some of my ex schoolfriends immediately there were some who had changed beyond belief.
I asked myself the same question when I saw BAD AS$, after I saw Shalim Ortiz, who has the cutest baby doll face become DANNY TREJO!!! God! Was that really neccesary? This Zero/Mustafa issue is nothing compared to this and maybe other cases that I still haven't seen. Go figure...
shareI asked myself the same question when I saw BAD AS$, after I saw Shalim Ortiz, who has the cutest baby doll face become DANNY TREJO!!! God! Was that really neccesary? This Zero/Mustafa issue is nothing compared to this and maybe other cases that I still haven't seen. Go figure...
shareDJ Qualls is playing Mike Tyson in the upcomming movie "Tyson", not a problem as it is acting, right?
shareTony Revolori is of Guatemalan descent (with what I assume is an Italian surname). F. Murray Abraham is of Syrian and Italian descent. Moustafa is an Arabic name. The character makes mention of having been through "The Desert Uprising". I assume he's supposed to be more or less vaguely Arabic-ish.
shareThat sounds right to me.
I think there are two possibilities here:
The first is that the older version of Zero is supposed to look quite different from the younger version - to make us question whether the older Zero is giving us an accurate account of his life.
The other possibility is that Wes Anderson just really wanted to use those two actors, and he figured, "Eh, they both have a Middle Eastern look, and there's such a big age difference, it will be fine."
If that's the case...he was wrong.
If that's the case...he was wrong.
considering that the op, along with myself, along with many others in the world, may have asked themselves that question at least once. so the confusion does make it feel to some that it was a poor choice. why don't you explain to us why it was the right choice then?
shareVery good movie, Zero both old and young were well done, but the skin color change was something that crossed my mind and my wife's and am sure many, many other. The director could have added some more color to old Zero so the discrepancy was not as noticeable.
Go Big Red
How was he wrong? Why? Because you say so? Pfft, okay. It's film, a great one at that, meant to be an escape. What do you think your trying to prove? That you're an idiot? Well darling, you have emphatically succeeded.
It didn't really bug me. I think Revolori looks a lot more like Paul Reubens. Not sure he'd have the same gravitas as Abraham....
shareThe age difference of the actors is one of the problems too. Murray Abraham (Old Zero) was born in 1939. Tony Revolori (Young Zero) was born in 1996, which means there is a 57 year difference but there have only been 36 years between events in 1932 and 1968. Now Ralph Fiennes doesn't fit either, with only a 23 year difference between him and Abraham, but the age discrepancy would be less and also I think Gustave was supposed to be younger than 52. I do not think Abraham was supposed to be younger than 75.
shareHe had Michael Jackson's doctors.
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IMDb Poll http://www.imdb.com/poll/
Michael Jackson had Vitiligo, unless of course you have a problem with people of color who get sick and have no qualms mocking their sickness?
shareMichael Jackson had Vitiligo, unless of course you have a problem with people of color who get sick and have no qualms mocking their sickness?
You are either lying or completely ignorant. During a court case against MJ, the prosecution hired a doctor to go through his medical files, this was the prosecutors doctor and witness against MJ and he testified in court that MJ had both vitiligo and lupus and had been dealing with that through the decades. Even the Lupus and vitiligo society will testify to this.
Fact is fact, lie all you want.
You are either lying or completely ignorant. During a court case against MJ, the prosecution hired a doctor to go through his medical files, this was the prosecutors doctor and witness against MJ and he testified in court that MJ had both vitiligo and lupus and had been dealing with that through the decades. Even the Lupus and vitiligo society will testify to this.
Fact is fact, lie all you want.
I guess when zero got older the pigment in his skin made him lighter.
shareEven if he did have it (I'm not saying he didn't), Vitiligo doesn't just turn your skin white overnight. It comes it blotches and patches. One can have it for decades and they never turn the lighter shade completely. He clearly had some kind of work done to lighten some of his skin (like his face), maybe to cover the blotches. There are topical drugs people use that lighten the normal skin to match in a process called De-pigmenting.
And not only people of color get this disease. I personally know someone who has it and he is a white as they come, but now he has patches of skin turning an even lighter shade.
It didn't turn his skin overnight which was why he wore thick makeup covering the blotches since the Thriller era. Very easy to research this and check Vitiligo orgs or his medical records online.
shareI was wondering the same, they were complete different characters:
The actors differ 57 years, while as I can remember only 36 years have passed. Zero in 1968 should have been a middle-aged man, not a retired one. Furthermore I can understand someone changing in 36 years, but the characters are too different on how they speak, think, act, etc.
Actually the skin color/looks was the least of my worries.
But does it really matter? This story was not one of complete accuracy. I think the both characters served the story best in the form they portrayed.
As much as I loved to see F.Murray Abraham in a wide released, mainstream movie again, I believe that old Zero should've been played by Tony Revolori in an old man makeup, as well as The Author consistently played by Jude Law.
shareActually, the old author was Tom Wilkinson. The only actor in old age makeup was Tilda Swinton.
shareI actually wondered if old zero was, in fact Gustav. We are told he was shot by the soldiers in black (which I got but why wasn't zero killed as well? and Agatha?)
The snide remarks to the people who are questioning why aside, it made the ending feel even more tacked on than it would have anyway. I loved the movie and will continue to go see Anderson's work, but this ending left me saying "meh."
Exactly. The casting was not accidental and not a mistake. It was done for exactly this reason. To cast doubt in the viewers mind as to the actual identity of the older "Zero". Of course the difference in appearance and the age discrepancy are immediately noticeable to any viewer, but my reaction was not why was the casting done poorly (because it is so obvious it was intentional) but what does this mean in the context of the film. Like sfwmson my first thought was that they were not in fact the same person. The older teller was telling his story through the artificial device of a third party. In fact that is exactly how the film starts through 2 layers. First the girl reading the book as recited by the older Jude Law, then the older Law recounting his past and its effects on his writing ("there is no fiction, only stories told to you that you take"), then the older "zero" recounting his story to the young Law. Many layers of biography ultimately told by a novelist, ultimately told by a screenwriter. At what level of the story is the real past changed to make a better story? This is a major theme in the film, and it is no accident that the truth and identity of the central story teller should be put into question in such a visual way.
sharehiggs, wow respect... that was awesome plus 5 internets for you!!
You might wanna watch where you step, bc you just dropped knowledge everywhere and you know how rare that stuff is these days.
Thanks, I'm just glad someone gets it rather than going on and on about the "mistaken" casting. Wes Anderson does not do anything in his films without a reason.
sharewho cares! it's stage-play. Both actors did a respectively awesome job playing their Zero.
shareThank God I wasn't the only one scratching my head at this too and for the life of me, cannot understand the why they cast a white man to play the adult Zero. I was also wondering if this adult Zero was actually who he said he was.
I kept thinking imposter and was waiting for some revelation and then, the movie ended.
I think it's pretty obvious that old Zero looks nothing like what young Zero would have grown up to look like. It took me a while in the film to figure out that they were supposed to be the same person. Not just the skin color, but the entire facial structure, and the height, would not match up. I don't think a filmmaker would make such a jarring juxtaposition unintentionally. Also, I think the character was meant to be of Middle-Eastern descent, not Indian. Then, there's the name...Zero. Why? Maybe Zero was M. Gustave's alter ego and never really existed. He was quite the trickster, after all. gonna have to go watch this one again - but maybe I'll wait until it's released for purchase, because this one I'm definitely adding to my collection.
Lethe
F Murray Abraham is not really any 'whiter' in the race sense than the younger actor. Both are half Italian, which one half Syrian and the other half Guatamalan.
share