MovieChat Forums > Barbara (2012) Discussion > INTELLIGENT FILM where the viewer had to...

INTELLIGENT FILM where the viewer had to piece together the puzzle(ment)

posted 12 years ago by DogtownGirl
25 replies | jump to latest

In MY opinion:

Here in America, studios don't appear to think all that much of movie goers and viewers, feeling as though we're so dumb that we need everything spelled out for us, onscreen, grrrrrr.

Not so, for the makers of this film, thank God!

The viewer was left to piece together puzzlements and come up with our own explanations of why we thought things were happening.

For example:

SPOILERS AHEAD ... SPOILERS AHEAD ... SPOILERS AHEAD!

1) When Barbara tested the plastic tubing under water to discovered holes in it. Now, why did she do that? I think it was because she thought she'd be suffocated by the gas (heated water) from the standing container leading into her tub! And, I think that the woman who gave B. a tour of the cellar knew well of the hose's defects, too.

IMPORTANT NOTE: The film's director spoke of "Barbara" (in this particular scene) checking her bicycle tire for punctures, and upon later viewings, the viewer can see that this is the case ... But, still ... something doesn't quite fit insofar as just after B. checks the hose the sinister muzak swells in the ST and we're left wondering (still!) who might sincerely have it in for this woman (??)

2) Why did Barbara travel to where the wooden cross was? To stash money away (for her departure) and to then check up on her stash, periodically.

3) Why did our Heroine abruptly end her kiss with her colleague Andre? Because she was still nervous about whether or not her escape plan would go off without a hitch, and (proably moreover) whether or not Andre already knew about it! You know he was in on a lot of what was going on with her, wasn't he?

4) Who gave B's bike the puncture (the flat tire)? I think it might have been that fellow (in the blue-coloured Trabant, the Russian-made car) who came upon B's beau's pal, Gerhard and asked after where his friend had gone ("in the woods to take a pee/'") Or, that the fellow tipped off someone who then did it ...

ONE thing that didn't need explaining in this film was the point of it and that was, 'Who CAN we trust, really and truly?' And are those persons to whom we become close the people who will end up betraying us the most?

PROUD member of PETA: People for the Eating of Tasty Animals

[–] anne-536 12 years ago

I agree on your view of the filmmakers' presentation, and allowing we viewers to piece these things together, as you say.
This is what makes Euro films so good, and in particular, German cinema.

[–] DogtownGirl 12 years ago

Yes, anne ... precisely!

As an American, I think our studios' output panders to its audience who (by and large) it thinks is stupid. You know, our films are geared towards adolescents (horny young boys, it seems). And, still ... the studio system (such as it still exists) is largely controlled by "straight", white, men (many Jews) as well.
They seems to live imposing their tastes upon we all (an example of this is Judd Apatow and his stuff, although I have to confess that his latest film, "This is 40" blind-sided me. I wasn't expecting it to be so funny - aka, LOL funny!)

PROUD member of PETA: People for the Eating of Tasty Animals

[–] rusty985 12 years ago

None of the items you discussed were great mysteries to anyone who watched this movie. I thought this was a decent movie and I enjoyed it. But in many respects it presented nothing interesting about the character or that particular moment in time. And while many non-US films have a much slower pace, many times it is worth the wait. Amour is an example of an unusually slow paced film that was worth every minute. Barbara was a good film but offered nothing special. If you want to see one of the greatest German films ever, watch The Lives of Others. Not only did it capture the feel of life in East Germany, but its final scene is one of the most perfect endings of any film.

[–] DogtownGirl 12 years ago

rusty985,

You and I disagree, except in our opinion(s) of "The Lives of Others" which I loved frame for frame, and thought was an excellent film, and brilliantly acted, as well!

(RIP, Roger Ebert!)

PROUD member of PETA: People for the Eating of Tasty Animals

[–] kickstand 12 years ago

1. She was repairing a bicycle tire. Pretty clear, since she rides the bike in the next scene.

2. You answered this yourself. She couldn't keep the money in her apartment or in the bank, because the Stasi would find it.

3. My own feeling is that the kiss was meant to set up an excuse to leave Andre's house and not show up at the operation that evening. She could claim to be embarrassed and ashamed about her inappropriate behavior, and Andre would be embarrassed to call her or go get her at her apartment.

4. The fact that we don't know who punctured the tire increases the feeling of dread. It could be anyone.

[–] DogtownGirl 12 years ago

kickstand,

Hi there. Your replies to me are numbered and mine back to you are just below them, FYI. I didn't feel like putting your content in "quotation marks", sorry. To time consuming.

1. She was repairing a bicycle tire. Pretty clear, since she rides the bike in the next scene.

-- I didn't think she was at the time I was first vewing the scene. I didn't even think it was a bike tyre. I thought B. was testing the rubber hose leading to the gas heater, or to some heater that gave her the hot water!! Hence, the sinister music. I thought she was trying to see if someone had punctured it hoping she'd be suffocated by gas! And, just because she was seen riding a bike in the next scene doesn't mean she was repairing her tyre in the scene before! There was no hint that her tyre had a puncture in it, at that time.
Now later on, after she'd had an assignation with her Beau, we saw that someone had given her bike a "flat" but not earlier in the film.

2. You answered this yourself. She couldn't keep the money in her apartment or in the bank, because the Stasi would find it.

-- Well, I was guessing / thinking aloud, actually, and I wanted to see what other people thought of my assumtion. You agree with it, so ... I reckon my guess must have been correct.

3. My own feeling is that the kiss was meant to set up an excuse to leave Andre's house and not show up at the operation that evening. She could claim to be embarrassed and ashamed about her inappropriate behavior, and Andre would be embarrassed to call her or go get her at her apartment.

-- Huh ... interesting ... I think the kiss was more spontaneous than what you thought it might have been. I think she just got lost in the moment.

4. The fact that we don't know who punctured the tire increases the feeling of dread. It could be anyone.

-- Yes, I thought that was odd that she had come back from a little assignation with her Beau only to find her bike tyre was punctured. Obviously, someone knew where she was, or where she'd had just been and wanted to impede her progress somewhat ... It worked! She spent the next few hours walking home!

R.I.P. to a great & beloved American film Critic, Roger Ebert!

[–] PepperJanuary 12 years ago

I thought it was obvious she was checking to see where the puncture was as just previously we saw her in the basement checking out the bike and pressing the tire showing us it was flat.

As someone who rode a bike all the time as a kid and fixed my own punctures this was obvious as that's how you find out where the air is escaping. Maybe if you're not so familiar with this technique you would miss it.

Your explanation certainly was creative though!

[–] DogtownGirl 12 years ago

Hiya, Pepper!

Why, thank you!
Well, I do look at things differently from most folks, I'll give you that! .

Isn't it funny how two people (You and I for instance) can see the same film and yet come away with entirely different perceptions of and about that film or stuff within it?

I can ride a bike. I don't own one, nor do I use one for conveyance.

I thought the rubber tubing that Barbara was checking, under the run bathtub water, connected the gas heater to the water, so that she could take a warm bath. Remember that in the scene just before, the frosty household matron had told Barbara that she knew she liked her baths warm, and then told her about the gas supply in tonnes. So, I thought the tubing referred to that, and not that it was the bike's trye. Also, the sinister music on the soundtrack I thought was too gloomy for it just being that, as well.

Oh, well ....

R.I.P. to a great & beloved American film Critic, Roger Ebert!

[–] DogtownGirl 12 years ago

I like your response to my posts better than those of (user) Unapologetic Mocker's ones to my Emile Hirsch (message board) posts.

R.I.P. to a great AND beloved American film Critic, Roger Ebert.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] DogtownGirl 11 years ago

bluesdoctor,

Yes, precisely! Well said, with which I agree.

** There MUST be more than one way to skin this Cat! **

[–] !!!deleted!!! (41638798) 11 years ago

As an aside, I also took the testing of the bike tire in the bath as a message that she was intent upon finding a way to work and back which would NOT allow Andre to pester her anymore about needing a ride.

She did not want to prolong her exposure to him any more than necessary, since he was tasked with reporting on her.

Another aspect to the film that is highlighted here was the legendary spy network the STASI had, which only came out after East Germany was opened up.

It was said that more people were watched and spied upon in the most efficient network that ever was known in history.

Showing how the STASI so easily recruited a civilian when Andre's mistake at the hospital was exploited was really eerie to me.

A doctor under another doctor's supervision makes a medical mistake that harms two babies. And the STASI quickly jump in to exploit the supervising doctor's situation--even though he didn't even make the mistake himself--to send him to the hinterlands to spy on everybody they want him to watch. And make regular reports on everybody as well.

The whole Andre storyline showed how pervasive and insidious the entire STASI operation was in East Germany, better than a lecture or book could.

It was a hideous hydra.

The scope of their work was also explained in "The Lives of Others."

[–] munroe-9 11 years ago

I'm not happy about Obama and NSA wiretapping but you can in no way shape or form compare THAT to living in East Germany, where Stasi spies were everywhere, informing on you for any display of disloyalty.

In what way is the average American suffering from wiretapping? Chances are most of us will feel no effect of it at all.

I feel like this paranoia and radical discourse about the Big Bad Gummint is an insult to people who lived through an *actually* oppressive regime.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] munroe-9 11 years ago

Again, not arguing with you about the scariness of NSA wiretapping.

I quibble with the comparison between this and the GDR. I had a relative, cousin of my grandma's, disappear during the 1950s because he was a "class enemy". (He was a college professor).

The goal of our current geopolitical system is to make the world safe for BUSINESS, to keep access to resources steady and keep the stock market from dropping, to make sure all the cronies who do business together have easy access to everything they might need.

It's NOT the same as the woman in this movie having a periodic cavity search by the Stasi. It's not, it's not, it's not. Don't cheapen the memory of these times NOR sensationalize what we are currently living thru by conflating the two.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] WhoisThePrisoner1 11 years ago

Nothing you mentioned required much of any "intelligence" to understand, or intelligence to create.

And considering your view of U.S. cinema, you must only be aware of mainstream blockbusters. There are 1000's of amazing films made in the U.S., 1000's of film schools, 1000's of indie theaters, etc.. 1000's of them right here on Netflix.

Great/bad, smart/dumb, etc..etc.. film is made in most countries in the world now. It would require some sort of obsession or bias to single out the U.S. in this regards.

[–] DogtownGirl 11 years ago

WhoisThePrisoner1,

Your strident opinions are duly noted.

Thanks.

My response to your reply is this one:
Well, that depends on the person doesn't it? And, it depends on what is available for viewing wherein one lives, as well.

** There MUST be more than one way to skin this Cat! **

[–] WhoisThePrisoner1 11 years ago

"wherein one lives"

Not when one has an internet connection.

[–] DogtownGirl 11 years ago

And, of course not everyone DOES, you see ..........

** There MUST be more than one way to skin this Cat! **

[–] WhoisThePrisoner1 11 years ago

Obviously YOU DO, which is the entire POINT. Even with access to great U.S. film, you deny it exists, and obsess about mainstream blockbusters.

[–] DogtownGirl 11 years ago

Again, your stridently LOW opinion of me and what you perceive me to do, has been noted. I know the US of A makes good films. Just that where I live most of the better films that I've seen happen to have come from NOT the US of A.

** There MUST be more than one way to skin this Cat! **

[–] WhoisThePrisoner1 11 years ago

Here in America, studios don't appear to think all that much of movie goers and viewers, feeling as though we're so dumb that we need everything spelled out for us, onscreen, grrrrrr.

YOUR words. Just the facts.

[–] DogtownGirl 11 years ago

And, I used the word "appear" didn't I? I left opining open-ended.

I think European films are smarter than many of ours are, as well. I also like how they approach sex, sexuality and relationships: LESS adolescently!

** There MUST be more than one way to skin this Cat! **

[–] JSFound 11 years ago

I thought she was going to blow something up as a West German terrorist. The thing she was fiddling with and hid in her apartment looked like plastic explosives. I didn't get that the entire subterfuge was just wanting to leave.