I've never really read any superman comics but this movie has him killing Soviets by the hundreds. Is he ok with that? I thought all the goodie goodie superheros had a no killing rule.
shareI thought that too, it's not Superman if he kills. But did he actually kill anyone?
shareKilling in a war isn't considered killing, I guess.
shareIt's an alternate timeline where Superman has become a tool of a corrupt U.S. government. He does what the president tells him to do without question, and he's become too weak in character to do otherwise. It's explained a little better in the original comic.
shareYeah and in the follow up comic it's explained a little better still who is actually calling his shots and how.
Asparagus makes your pee smell bad. I wonder what happens if you give asparagus to a cat?
"...become a tool of a corrupt U.S. government."
Have to disagree with you on that.
While the Arch Villain, "Darth Reagen" is often blamed as the villain in this, the real enemy is the people of America.
Clark tells Bruce "Its their world Bruce and they don't want US in it."
That ONE line kind of says it all. Clark isn't working for The Man and he knows precisely who he IS working for..."They".
He later makes the comment, "They don't want to be reminded that giants walk the earth." Clark isn't saying that giants should not be walking the earth...only that they ARE walking the earth and the people do not want to be reminded that they are.
"They" is us, the people who've become so jealous of the powers the supers command and so angry with the collateral damage from their fights that the public aligned against the supers (remember Clark saying something about the "civic groups" or mothers protesting against them?)
Reagan is just a politician and not a very good one at that. He is not the mastermind who has taken over America but everyone wants to bereave he is because that's how 4 color comic books work. But, in this case, what Miller has done is give you a Batman and Superman that are absolutely true to their ideals but are in a story where those ideas have come into conflict.
FAR from weak in character, Clark believes in Truth, Justice and the American Way while Batman is about teaching the people by being an example (in your face). If the American people have pushed for the supers to "go away", Clark will honor that demand and he, directed legally by the Executive Branch of our government, will "persuade" the supers to do so.
Its not so fulfilling as having a clear cut villain, but in this work (a brilliant piece by Frank Miller) Superman is not a stooge of a corrupt government...he is obeying the law as dictated by a group of disinterested and apathetic citizens who do not want to be lectured by a guy in a bat suit telling them that they should get off their butts and do something about the world they live in.
By the way...Robin's parents are the voice of the people. They just want to sit on their couches, smoke pot and complain about how "Fascist" the police and Batman are. They wish people would just be nice to each other (which they never are) because they are too lazy to think about the hard questions or to actually do something about it.
Gordon makes the speech about if FDR knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor before it happened and that he let it happen so they could have an excuse to get into WWII. The question is "Are immoral actions justifiable for the greater good?"
Batman beats up criminals, uses excessive force, attacks police officers, terrorizes citizens, performs illegal wiretaps and surveillance (and the list goes on and on) and we have decided that its perfectly OK for him to do so...For the Greater Good.
Gordon has supported Batman all these years knowing that he does all these terrible things...For the Greater Good. What's more, his replacement (a hard core anti-Batman at the start of the piece) eventually looks the other way as well accepting that what Batman is doing is illegal but necessary for...The Greater Good.
Superman has ALSO done terrible things (including cutting Green Arrow's arm off, killed thousands of Russian solders, etc., etc., etc.)...again...all for HIS INTERPRETATION of the Greater Good.
This isn't about villains...its about heroes who come into conflict. The villains themselves are pale and pathetic fighting an old war which the world has outgrown. Its about shades of grey rather than black and white.
And...in the end...Superman wins. He gets what he wanted all along. Batman is pressed into the shadows doing good secretly by teaching the people to make small differences rather than one man making large loud differences.
Frank Miller's work is fricking Brilliant! This isn't a comic book...its a piece of American Literature.
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who get binary and those who don't.
I wish we could upvote or fave posts on here. That was an epic explanation of Batman and especially Superman's motives in this.
I mean, really, how many times will you look under Jabba's manboobs?
Beautifully said. You have got my upvote!
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