movieliker1 says > A waiter is working and serving customers for money. I am not working for money when I sleep with someone.
You're just not getting my point. It's not about being courteous, it's about being offended that someone you hooked up with for a one night fling would dare to leave without saying goodbye. You have both made the decision going in that neither of you care enough about each other to invest any time into a relationship yet you're doing something very intimate.
It's all, in my opinion, very odd. I hear the same thing from certain female 'friends' who meet a guy, have sex, then are shocked he doesn't call. Talk about delusional. It is what it is; accept it. If someone you're dating slips out without a word, that may be cause for concern but a one-night stand; no way. I would think you'd be glad to avoid the morning after awkwardness because you've both exhausted the extent of the 'relationship'. It's like when a TV anchor person runs out of script but the camera stays focused on them - awkward!
Anyone who is a guest in your house should feel more of an obligation to be polite and considerate than someone who just passes you in the street.
See, that's the difference between us. I am very careful about who I let into into my car or my life so there is no way I would so easily let them into my home, my bed, or my body. To me that's just so disgusting on so many levels. I suspect you'd faster let someone into your bed than go through your wallet or see your password. Does that not say something about where your values lie and how little you think of sex? If you can do it with anyone, so frivolously, where's the value? It's meaningless and by extension so, too, are the people you're having it with.
Who said I don't want to get to know the women I sleep with?
You did! Otherwise, it wouldn't be a one-night stand. Like I said, whatever may happen later, and I don't see how it ever could, the initial reaction you both have to each other is the same. We're going to use each other for sex, like a glorified blow up doll or a free prostitute and that's about all I can see doing with you. It may not be said in so many words but that's what it is; the ultimate in using another person.
I never said I didn't care about pleasing the other person. I get excited when they get excited. I have fun when they have fun. I am not a selfish lover.
Read your own words.
Do you only have sex when you want to make a baby mdonln? I think you are putting an unfair burden on those who have casual sex. I am willing and able to assume the risks of sex. I would step up if she wanted to have and keep a baby.
Again, your question illustrates the skewed view that a lot of people have come to have in regards to sex. They try to eliminate all aspects of procreation and say that anything goes; it's all about having fun and feeling good. The fact that these same people use contraceptives means they do get it but, as usual, they play the same little games to try to deceive themselves. I think it's the reason so many people try to normalize abnormal behaviors; more delusional thinking. It's mind blowing when you really think about it.
I am Pro-life. I believe abortion is murder. I have never been involved in a situation where abortion was considered. And I am sure, I have contracted and transmitted much less STDs than I would have if I didn't practice safe sex.
I never would have guessed it. I'm glad to hear you're pro-life but that does not only mean being against abortion. It's also being responsible long before that issue comes up. By your actions, you necessarily put yourself in the path of something you say you're against. I love babies but I'm not advocating that people have them willy-nilly. The time to think about not bringing a life into the world if you're not really, willing and able to care for it is prior to conception. Having one-night stands and casual sex don't support what you claim to be your beliefs. Even the nonchalant way to which you refer to STDs is fairly shocking to me.
One of the definitions of life is change. Hopefully change for the better. Evolution and progress means life keeps moving forward. In many ways, life will never be what it was before. I think people who are progressive and responsible about sex enjoy that progress in ways people before never could.
Progress is not always for the better. We've made a lot of so-called progress in the world but a lot of those changes are not for the better. They're simply a change from what was done before. It's like when you're on a trip and get lost. Until you realize you're lost you keep going and get further and further away. You may have been on the road for hours but you're getting further away from where you intended to go. At some point you realize you're lost and have to go back to the point where you started to go in the wrong direction. You can't say well we've gotten this far so we might as well keep going.
I think we (humans) are still fairly young in our development and maturity. We behave and think like adolescents. Most of us react more than think and are mostly concerned with the here and now and focus on the things that feel good. Unfortunately, we fail to learn from other civilizations have gone through the same kinds of issues and were destroyed because of it.
At the rate we're going it won't be long before we jeopardize and even end our own existence. We'll start thinking any kind of perverse sex act is normal. Sex will be about everything other than what it is and people will do whatever, with whomever, they choose. Oh wait, we're already there. You call that progress? We're jeopardizing the human race. If we were a fluffy animal people would be having fundraisers to save the humans. I said your mindset is like a caveman. Using my previous analogy, that would be like coming full circle to where you set off on that road trip; that's not progress either.
I have never contracted or transmitted any incurable or terminal STDs. And I have never gotten a woman pregnant.
Yet! Actually, you don't know. You could have something and not know it. I'm not wishing that on you but it happens. You could also have a child or children out there too. You would not be the first person to have a child of whom you're not aware.
Overall, it's clear that you and I have completely different approaches to life and different views of what is appropriate behavior. I think you're fooling yourself and you probably think I'm dull. That's life!
Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]
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movieliker1
9 years ago
First of all, you seem to be assuming a lot about me. All people who engage in casual sex are not the result of a mass production of clones who all think, feel and act the same way. I am a distinct individual with my own thoughts, feelings, actions and point of view. Pleas stop accusing "us" of this and that. Maybe you should be asking more questions instead of assuming you know exactly what I think, feel and do.
You're just not getting my point. It's not about being courteous, it's about being offended that someone you hooked up with for a one night fling would dare to leave without saying goodbye. You have both made the decision going in that neither of you care enough about each other to invest any time into a relationship yet you're doing something very intimate.
I have never made that decision. I care about the women I sleep with. And I show it all night long. And they show it too or we don't sleep together.
It's all, in my opinion, very odd. I hear the same thing from certain female 'friends' who meet a guy, have sex, then are shocked he doesn't call. Talk about delusional. It is what it is; accept it. If someone you're dating slips out without a word, that may be cause for concern but a one-night stand; no way. I would think you'd be glad to avoid the morning after awkwardness because you've both exhausted the extent of the 'relationship'. It's like when a TV anchor person runs out of script but the camera stays focused on them - awkward!
I have never not called a women the next day that I have slept with. I agree with your girlfriends. It is highly disrespectful, selfish, inconsiderate, thoughtless, rude, offensive and insulting of those guys to not call your girlfriends after having slept with them. I can't believe you wouldn't agree.
See, that's the difference between us. I am very careful about who I let into into my car or my life so there is no way I would so easily let them into my home, my bed, or my body. To me that's just so disgusting on so many levels. I suspect you'd faster let someone into your bed than go through your wallet or see your password. Does that not say something about where your values lie and how little you think of sex? If you can do it with anyone, so frivolously, where's the value? It's meaningless and by extension so, too, are the people you're having it with.
I am very careful also about who I let into my car, my life, my home and my bed. The sex I have is not meaningless and neither are the women I have sex with.
You did! Otherwise, it wouldn't be a one-night stand. Like I said, whatever may happen later, and I don't see how it ever could, the initial reaction you both have to each other is the same. We're going to use each other for sex, like a glorified blow up doll or a free prostitute and that's about all I can see doing with you. It may not be said in so many words but that's what it is; the ultimate in using another person.
I do get to know the women I sleep with. They are not complete strangers when we have sex. I told you I have spent at least four hours with them before we have sex. And I don't sleep with every woman I meet or date.
"I never said I didn't care about pleasing the other person. I get excited when they get excited. I have fun when they have fun. I am not a selfish lover."
Read your own words.
What are you saying mdonln? That you don't enjoy sex. Only your partner should feel love and pleasure? That is ridiculous.
Again, your question illustrates the skewed view that a lot of people have come to have in regards to sex. They try to eliminate all aspects of procreation and say that anything goes; it's all about having fun and feeling good. The fact that these same people use contraceptives means they do get it but, as usual, they play the same little games to try to deceive themselves. I think it's the reason so many people try to normalize abnormal behaviors; more delusional thinking. It's mind blowing when you really think about it.
It is not just about having fun and feeling good. It is about loving another human being. Don't some people say, "Love makes the world go 'round"? Yes, that is an oversimplification. But love does make the world a better place.
I never would have guessed it. I'm glad to hear you're pro-life but that does not only mean being against abortion. It's also being responsible long before that issue comes up. By your actions, you necessarily put yourself in the path of something you say you're against. I love babies but I'm not advocating that people have them willy-nilly. The time to think about not bringing a life into the world if you're not really, willing and able to care for it is prior to conception. Having one-night stands and casual sex don't support what you claim to be your beliefs. Even the nonchalant way to which you refer to STDs is fairly shocking to me.
That is why we use birth control. Because we are being responsible.
And that is why we practice safe sex and we screen potential lovers. So we can minimize the chances of contracting a STD. And I get tested regularly. To make sure I am not putting future partners at risk.
Progress is not always for the better. We've made a lot of so-called progress in the world but a lot of those changes are not for the better. They're simply a change from what was done before. It's like when you're on a trip and get lost. Until you realize you're lost you keep going and get further and further away. You may have been on the road for hours but you're getting further away from where you intended to go. At some point you realize you're lost and have to go back to the point where you started to go in the wrong direction. You can't say well we've gotten this far so we might as well keep going.
I think we (humans) are still fairly young in our development and maturity. We behave and think like adolescents. Most of us react more than think and are mostly concerned with the here and now and focus on the things that feel good. Unfortunately, we fail to learn from other civilizations have gone through the same kinds of issues and were destroyed because of it.
At the rate we're going it won't be long before we jeopardize and even end our own existence. We'll start thinking any kind of perverse sex act is normal. Sex will be about everything other than what it is and people will do whatever, with whomever, they choose. Oh wait, we're already there. You call that progress? We're jeopardizing the human race. If we were a fluffy animal people would be having fundraisers to save the humans. I said your mindset is like a caveman. Using my previous analogy, that would be like coming full circle to where you set off on that road trip; that's not progress either.
With all due respect mdonln, that sounds like a very negative, pessimistic, cynical, gloom and doom point of view. I am sorry you think and feel that way. I know life is better now than it has ever been before for humans --- especially in first world countries. And I believe it is only going to get better. Part of me is sorry I won't be around to experience the future a hundred to a thousand, two thousand, three thousand years from now --- and on !!!
Yet! Actually, you don't know. You could have something and not know it. I'm not wishing that on you but it happens. You could also have a child or children out there too. You would not be the first person to have a child of whom you're not aware.
I am pretty sure with my safe sex practices and my regular tests I don't have a STD. It is impossible to live life to the fullest without taking risks. I am not going to refuse to live just because there are risks out there.
Overall, it's clear that you and I have completely different approaches to life and different views of what is appropriate behavior. I think you're fooling yourself and you probably think I'm dull. That's life!
No, I don't think you are dull. I think you are probably a very interesting, intelligent, responsible, moral and accomplished woman. I am just sad that you are so negative about humanity and it's future.
I am sure if you have studied history you know things are better now than they have ever been before. We still have problems but we always did. You say you live in Great Britain. Compare your life to what you could reasonably expect of someone of your social stature fifty, one hundred, five hundred, a thousand, two thousand, four thousand years ago. Life is better now.
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mdonln
9 years ago
Our responses keep growing so I'll try to keep it simple; only a few points.
1. First, I don't know where the Great Britain thing came from. I've never said I was from there; I'm not, nor have I said that live there; I don't.
2. Many things have improved over the years but I'm referring to specific issues. It is possible to excel in some areas and not in others. The areas in which we fail can negate the progress we've made in every other area. Part of being a civilized society involves understanding and embracing certain behaviors that tear at the fabric of society. Promiscuity doesn't do much to benefit society but can and does tend to interfere with many societal conventions.
3. Don't waste your time feeling sorry for me. I kind of felt sorry for you but the more I read your words the more I wonder how much of what you say is theory rather than practice. You seem quick to change your original stance. You talk about one-night stands but insist you spend time with the other person, care about the person, call the person after the fact, etc. It sounds more like you have a lot of short-term relationships that quickly fizzle. They turn out to be one night stands when maybe you hadn't intended them to.
There are a lot of people who have a series of first dates that go nowhere after that. It doesn't mean the advocate single dates it's just their experience. If you are as invested in these people as you claim; you think it's discourteous of them to sneak out without a word, and you do care about them as much as you say, perhaps you're the one being used for sex and you don't even realize it.
Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]
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movieliker1
9 years ago
1. First, I don't know where the Great Britain thing came from. I've never said I was from there; I'm not, nor have I said that live there; I don't.
Sorry, I must have confused you with another poster on another thread. I sometimes have as many as eight conversations going at one time. (I think that was a poster I was talking with about transgender rights on the Politics board.) Sorry.
2. Many things have improved over the years but I'm referring to specific issues. It is possible to excel in some areas and not in others. The areas in which we fail can negate the progress we've made in every other area. Part of being a civilized society involves understanding and embracing certain behaviors that tear at the fabric of society. Promiscuity doesn't do much to benefit society but can and does tend to interfere with many societal conventions.
I don't think liberal attitudes and easy access to sex is a negative development for society. Just because some people abuse and misuse it is not society's fault. No matter what privileges are available, some people are just going to screw it up.
3. Don't waste your time feeling sorry for me. I kind of felt sorry for you but the more I read your words the more I wonder how much of what you say is theory rather than practice. You seem quick to change your original stance. You talk about one-night stands but insist you spend time with the other person, care about the person, call the person after the fact, etc. It sounds more like you have a lot of short-term relationships that quickly fizzle. They turn out to be one night stands when maybe you hadn't intended them to.
Here is another example of me thinking you have jumped to incorrect assumptions of me and my lifestyle.
There are a lot of people who have a series of first dates that go nowhere after that. It doesn't mean the advocate single dates it's just their experience. If you are as invested in these people as you claim; you think it's discourteous of them to sneak out without a word, and you do care about them as much as you say, perhaps you're the one being used for sex and you don't even realize it.
No, I don't believe that is the case. I never said my lifestyle was determined by a never ending series of one night stands. Although you seemed to have jumped to that conclusion. I have had one night stands. But I don't do them all the time. I have had girlfriends. I have had long term relationships that have lasted for years. I also have had periods of time when I was decidedly abstinent.
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mdonln
9 years ago
movieliker1 says > Sorry, I must have confused you with another poster on another thread.
No big deal I know what that's like except it points to the fact you are actually doing what you've accused me of doing: lumping you in with and confusing you with other people. How interesting! At least it sounds like you're having some interesting conversations; maybe that'll keep you out of trouble. LOL
I don't think liberal attitudes and easy access to sex is a negative development for society.
Well, I do because I believe those attitudes go beyond sex and affect many other things in society. You kind of sound like the people who steal or do other anit-social things. They neither understand nor care what impact their behavior has on others. Some people are unable to self-patrol. A lot of these liberal views towards sex lead to problems and leave a lot of innocent victims in the wake. Despite what you may say about wanting to please the other person, certain attitudes represent the ultimate in selfishness.
People with liberal views toward sex are in it for self-satisfaction; what they get out of it. I'm not saying one should not enjoy sex; it's supposed to be enjoyable, but when it's approached in such a casual manner with any person it's only about pleasing oneself and not about the other person. In fact, that's the very reason people 'hook up' with strangers; they can just get to the act and strip away all the other aspects of relating to another human being. By the way, I think it's similar to the reason a lot of people enjoy pets so much. Dealing with humans is so much harder because we have thoughts, feelings, opinions, etc. It's so much easier for things to be all about 'me' when sex is with a stranger and your so-called best friend and constant companion can't talk back or disagree.
Here is another example of me thinking you have jumped to incorrect assumptions of me and my lifestyle.
That's my assessment based on the things you've said. Clearly you have certain ideas about me based on what I've said that may or may not reflect who I really am.
I never said my lifestyle was determined by a never ending series of one night stands. Although you seemed to have jumped to that conclusion.
I didn't say that was your lifestyle but if what you say is true that you do take time with and invest in the other person it sounds like you may have been hoping for something else but nothing more than sex came of it. Whether that's once or often, that's what it sounds like to me. As we know, in general, men and women are different but you seem to be describing the typical woman who sleeps around. They don't necessarily intend to but they do because the guy got what he wanted. Granted, there are plenty of women who are in it just for the sex and I suspect most men too but that is not what you have described. You keep insisting it's more than just sex but you are, at the same time, expecting some emotional, albeit minor, connection.
I guess you're trying to have me believe that behaviors exist in a vacuum, like someone could go out and do certain things and it doesn't affect the way they live the rest of their lives or how they approach other issues. I don't know how that's possible. Sure, some people try to convince themselves of it but I don't buy it.
Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]
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movieliker1
9 years ago
No big deal I know what that's like except it points to the fact you are actually doing what you've accused me of doing: lumping you in with and confusing you with other people. How interesting!
That is ironic to an certain extent.
Well, I do because I believe those attitudes go beyond sex and affect many other things in society. You kind of sound like the people who steal or do other anit-social things. They neither understand nor care what impact their behavior has on others. Some people are unable to self-patrol. A lot of these liberal views towards sex lead to problems and leave a lot of innocent victims in the wake. Despite what you may say about wanting to please the other person, certain attitudes represent the ultimate in selfishness.
People with liberal views toward sex are in it for self-satisfaction; what they get out of it. I'm not saying one should not enjoy sex; it's supposed to be enjoyable, but when it's approached in such a casual manner with any person it's only about pleasing oneself and not about the other person. In fact, that's the very reason people 'hook up' with strangers; they can just get to the act and strip away all the other aspects of relating to another human being. By the way, I think it's similar to the reason a lot of people enjoy pets so much. Dealing with humans is so much harder because we have thoughts, feelings, opinions, etc. It's so much easier for things to be all about 'me' when sex is with a stranger and your so-called best friend and constant companion can't talk back or disagree.
Let me clarify something I hope you already realized. I started this thread because I was shocked by how impersonal the two main characters were and by what they had done. If I remember correctly, she hooked up with a guy she met online by text only --- no pictures. He said he was looking to have sex. She said she was available. He gave her an address. She went over there. They had sex. And she tried to leave without saying goodbye. Do you realize how dangerous that was !!! Especially for a girl !!! He could have been a serial killer !!!
I have never done that. As I said, I have always spent at least four hours getting to know my potential bed mates before anything happens. We have to think and feel we are good people before we commit to spending anymore time together. The sex is not the goal. Getting close to someone --- mentally, emotionally, psychologically and at last physically is. I don't have sex with strangers. So yes, after all that, saying goodbye is required. Hopefully that re-clarification clears things up for you.
What consequences are created by the one night stands I said I have had? I have never created an illegitimate child. I have never contracted or transmitted any serious STDs. So, what consequences?
I get pleasure out of pleasing my partner. I couldn't enjoy sex with anyone who wasn't getting pleasure out having sex with me. So, how is that selfish?
I didn't say that was your lifestyle but if what you say is true that you do take time with and invest in the other person it sounds like you may have been hoping for something else but nothing more than sex came of it. Whether that's once or often, that's what it sounds like to me. As we know, in general, men and women are different but you seem to be describing the typical woman who sleeps around. They don't necessarily intend to but they do because the guy got what he wanted. Granted, there are plenty of women who are in it just for the sex and I suspect most men too but that is not what you have described. You keep insisting it's more than just sex but you are, at the same time, expecting some emotional, albeit minor, connection.
I guess you're trying to have me believe that behaviors exist in a vacuum, like someone could go out and do certain things and it doesn't affect the way they live the rest of their lives or how they approach other issues. I don't know how that's possible. Sure, some people try to convince themselves of it but I don't buy it.
No, I am not hoping for anything more. I meet someone new. I don't expect anything. If we like each other, we spend more time together. If we don't, we don't spend more time together. I eventually get good company out of meeting all these new people. No false expectations.
I believe it is healthy to have a healthy social life. Because of recent developments socially and technologically, we can enjoy a more intense and intimate social life than people could before. Nothing wrong with that.
Of course, those who take advantage of those recent developments responsibly are contributing to a better world. And those who are irresponsible are making problems for themselves and others. But that is not the fault of the opportunities resulting from those recent developments. That is fault of those who are irresponsible.
So, just like guns don't kill people, casual sex doesn't hurt anybody either. In both cases, it is the irresponsible use of privileges that is the problem. Not the privileges themselves.
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mdonln
9 years ago
movieliker1 says > I started this thread because I was shocked by how impersonal the two main characters were and by what they had done. If I remember correctly, she hooked up with a guy she met online by text only --- no pictures. He said he was looking to have sex. She said she was available. He gave her an address. She went over there. They had sex. And she tried to leave without saying goodbye. Do you realize how dangerous that was !!! Especially for a girl !!! He could have been a serial killer !!!
Yet, you raised none of those issues before. You were commenting on the very movie you're describing now but you chose to focus on how rude it was to leave without saying goodbye. She could have been a serial killer too or infected or deranged, etc. You seem to think spending a few hours with someone makes a difference but I don't.
When I talked about victims before, you made it seem like there's no way that could happen but people who feel it necessary to have one-night stands or affairs of any sort usually are not thinking about anyone but themselves. They don't seem to value their own safety so how could they possibly consider the safety of other people? If I have to spell out all the issues for you it means you don't get it and probably never will; until and unless something happens that opens your eyes, but I'll just say this.
Your innocent fling may damage someone's marriage. You seem to think you get to know them in four hours but that's an illusion. You're just giving yourself a pass. You can choose to believe whatever they tell you and/or pretend it doesn't matter since it's just a one-time fling. Whether or not you take the time to say goodbye, you can walk away and pretend that's that. Really, it gives you the perfect out. You don't have to see the consequences.
As a man you have it easy. You don't ever have to know if there was a pregnancy or if you passed along some disease. Women, being on the receiving end are a lot more susceptible. You keep repeating you never had any illegitimate children but how many men have said that only to find out much, much later that was not the case. Even if the child was never born, I count the child as a victim as well.
You want to separate the responsible and irresponsible but some behaviors, in my opinion, are inherently irresponsible so I cannot see any distinction. It's as if someone went out and shot a gun randomly in any direction. Is there a responsible way of doing that? I think not!
The person could get lucky and escape doing any harm but that doesn't make their behavior any less risky or less stupid. What it does is it gives them a sense of false confidence; making them more likely to repeat those risks again because nothing happened the first time. As they go on and nothing happens they gain more confidence and keep behaving irresponsibly.
I responded to that original post because I thought then as I think now. With so many other potentials issues issues why is leaving without a goodbye so important? Really, considering everything else that had happened, that was probably the first/only behavior that made any sense to me. It also happened to be the only thing you saw as odd or out of place.
Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]
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movieliker1
9 years ago
Yet, you raised none of those issues before. You were commenting on the very movie you're describing now but you chose to focus on how rude it was to leave without saying goodbye. She could have been a serial killer too or infected or deranged, etc. You seem to think spending a few hours with someone makes a difference but I don't.
You are correct. I raised none of those issues before. My initial post focused on how rude I thought it was to steal away without saying goodbye.
I agree, she could have been a serial killer also. I have never had a one night stand like that.
Spending a few hours with someone does make a difference. You won't agree going to a
perfect stranger's home or, letting a
perfect stranger into your house and having sex with them is different than going anywhere to be alone with someone you have
known for a few hours?
First of all, there is the few hours difference. Secondly, it you try, you should know a lot more about that person after a few hours than you did before you ever met them. I understand, a few hours is not enough for "you" to want to sleep with anyone. But there is a difference.
When I talked about victims before, you made it seem like there's no way that could happen but people who feel it necessary to have one-night stands or affairs of any sort usually are not thinking about anyone but themselves. They don't seem to value their own safety so how could they possibly consider the safety of other people? If I have to spell out all the issues for you it means you don't get it and probably never will; until and unless something happens that opens your eyes, but . . .
Yes, there are risks involved. That is part of what makes it exciting. But, there are always risks involved. How many times do we hear about a couple of high school sweethearts who dated all through high school and college, got married, had kids and --- one spouse murders the other. No, it happens less than not, but the point is, there are always risks and you never really know anyone.
. . . I'll just say this;
Your innocent fling may damage someone's marriage. You seem to think you get to know them in four hours but that's an illusion. You're just giving yourself a pass. You can choose to believe whatever they tell you and/or pretend it doesn't matter since it's just a one-time fling. Whether or not you take the time to say goodbye, you can walk away and pretend that's that. Really, it gives you the perfect out. You don't have to see the consequences.
She would have to be a world class liar to hide the fact that she was married for four hours of courting. And if she did, I wouldn't be responsible. I would be a victim. A victim of her deceit.
First of all, and least importantly, if she is a cheater, she is going to cheat with me or somebody else. Secondly, and more importantly, the problem there is she is a cheater. Not the innocent guys she picks off to ply her deceit. I have never knowingly slept with a married woman. But I can't help it if she is a liar.
As a man you have it easy. You don't ever have to know if there was a pregnancy or if you passed along some disease. Women, being on the receiving end are a lot more susceptible. You keep repeating you never had any illegitimate children but how many men have said that only to find out much, much later that was not the case. Even if the child was never born, I count the child as a victim as well.
These women I sleep with are mature, responsible adults. I am not sleeping with babies. They are fully aware of the risks and responsibilities involved in casual sex. They would be offended if I insinuated they weren't old, mature or sophisticated enough to be treated like an adult.
You want to separate the responsible and irresponsible but some behaviors, in my opinion, are inherently irresponsible so I cannot see any distinction. It's as if someone went out and shot a gun randomly in any direction. Is there a responsible way of doing that? I think not!
That is ridiculous. People who have one night stands want to have sex. Nobody wants to get shot.
The person could get lucky and escape doing any harm but that doesn't make their behavior any less risky or less stupid. What it does is it gives them a sense of false confidence; making them more likely to repeat those risks again because nothing happened the first time. As they go on and nothing happens they gain more confidence and keep behaving irresponsibly.
There are risks involved in everything. I am not going to lock myself alone in my bedroom just because I am afraid of risks. I want to live life. One proponent of life is risks. You can't have one without the other.
I responded to that original post because I thought then as I think now. With so many other potentials issues issues why is leaving without a goodbye so important? Really, considering everything else that had happened, that was probably the first/only behavior that made any sense to me. It also happened to be the only thing you saw as odd or out of place.
I believe you are smart enough mdonln to understand where I am coming from. But I think you are trying to project your disgust for people who have one night stands and casual sex by saying, "You all disgust me !!! As far as I am concerned, none of you guys deserve the respect of a good bye. If you want to be irresponsible animals, you should be treated like such. And if you are offended --- good !!! You deserve it !!!".
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mdonln
9 years ago
1. Risk - you talk about everything in life having risks in order to justify your behavior. You say it as if the alternative to sleeping around is sitting locked in a room avoiding life. How absurd! If you don't know any alternatives, that say a lot about you.
There are risks involved in crossing the street. Most people look both ways and wait for the light in order to minimize the risks. You seem to be saying, well, there are risks so I might as well run out into the street and take my chances. I've noticed some people's daily lives are so dull and uninspired they do need to take chances; do things that are an adrenaline rush in order to feel alive or feel anything.
They seem to think theirs are the exciting lives because they take, what I consider, unnecessary and foolish risks. There is a huge difference. Some people don't have to pursue trivial risks; it's a challenge to get through every day of their lives.
Putting yourself in danger for a sexual thrill, in my opinion, is the same as having any other fetish; something you have to have in order to get aroused. That's what happens when one is numb to regular experiences. Like I said before if you have to seek out an adrenaline rush to feel something; whether it's alive, aroused, or whatever, it says a LOT about you. When that thrill wears out, what's next, rape and torture. People have to keep ramping it up; like using drugs, one gets quickly accustomed to what they're taking and need larger and stronger doses just to feel okay.
2. Responsibility - With everything you've said, you're making my point. One can know someone a lifetime and not really know the person but you just need about four hours and you're good to go. However, you make sure to add if they choose to be deceitful, well, it's not your fault so you're covered; free from blame; off the hook. How convenient. As long as you don't see the aftermath you can just assume all is well. Of course you don't know if you fathered some kids that are going hungry. In your world not knowing seems to be equivalent to non-existent.
In my opinion, the very fact two people, strangers, are meeting each other for sex suggests that both of them have a lot to hide. No, we may not ever know every detail of the inner recesses of another person's mind but spending as little time with them as possible and never seeing them again assures not only that you will not get to know them but, more importantly, they won't ever get the chance to know you either. As I said before, a lot of people have trouble relating with and being in relationships with other people. Maybe they never learned to do it, they fail at it, and/or they so dislike themselves they don't want others to know them and feel about them the same way they feel about themselves. One of the most basic of human traits is bonding with others in our species. Those who can't do that know it and try to hide it along with all their many faults.
Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]
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movieliker1
9 years ago
1. Risk - you talk about everything in life having risks in order to justify your behavior. You say it as if the alternative to sleeping around is sitting locked in a room avoiding life. How absurd! If you don't know any alternatives, that say a lot about you.
There are risks involved in crossing the street. Most people look both ways and wait for the light in order to minimize the risks. You seem to be saying, well, there are risks so I might as well run out into the street and take my chances. I've noticed some people's daily lives are so dull and uninspired they do need to take chances; do things that are an adrenaline rush in order to feel alive or feel anything.
They seem to think theirs are the exciting lives because they take, what I consider, unnecessary and foolish risks. There is a huge difference. Some people don't have to pursue trivial risks; it's a challenge to get through every day of their lives.
Putting yourself in danger for a sexual thrill, in my opinion, is the same as having any other fetish; something you have to have in order to get aroused. That's what happens when one is numb to regular experiences. Like I said before if you have to seek out an adrenaline rush to feel something; whether it's alive, aroused, or whatever, it says a LOT about you. When that thrill wears out, what's next, rape and torture. People have to keep ramping it up; like using drugs, one gets quickly accustomed to what they're taking and need larger and stronger doses just to feel okay.
What you are saying about me might apply if I only had one night stands. But, as I told you, I also have had long term relationships and periods of abstinence. So, you describing me as a foolish thrill seeker doesn't fit.
2. Responsibility - With everything you've said, you're making my point. One can know someone a lifetime and not really know the person but you just need about four hours and you're good to go. However, you make sure to add if they choose to be deceitful, well, it's not your fault so you're covered; free from blame; off the hook. How convenient. As long as you don't see the aftermath you can just assume all is well. Of course you don't know if you fathered some kids that are going hungry. In your world not knowing seems to be equivalent to non-existent.
Mystery is a part of life. I will never know everything. Even you are potentially qualified for a surprise from your past. It may not be an illegitimate child. But even those people who try to eliminate all risk and mystery get surprised sooner or later. That's life.
In my opinion, the very fact two people, strangers, are meeting each other for sex suggests that both of them have a lot to hide. No, we may not ever know every detail of the inner recesses of another person's mind but spending as little time with them as possible and never seeing them again assures not only that you will not get to know them but, more importantly, they won't ever get the chance to know you either. As I said before, a lot of people have trouble relating with and being in relationships with other people. Maybe they never learned to do it, they fail at it, and/or they so dislike themselves they don't want others to know them and feel about them the same way they feel about themselves. One of the most basic of human traits is bonding with others in our species. Those who can't do that know it and try to hide it along with all their many faults.
Once again, that shoe might fit me if I just had one night stands. But I periodically have relationships. So, I guess I am not afraid of letting someone get to know me.
Just because you are married, you don't want to socialize with anybody else other than your husband? I like to socialize also. Except I get to know someone better than you do. It is more interesting, exciting, educational and fulfilling for both of us than just conversing at a cocktail party for thirty minutes.
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mdonln
9 years ago
movieliker1 says > What you are saying about me might apply if I only had one night stands. But, as I told you, I also have had long term relationships and periods of abstinence. So, you describing me as a foolish thrill seeker doesn't fit.
Something need not occur on an ongoing basis for it to be true or descriptive. For instance, someone who is a philanderer, or cheater, may not be at it every single day but it doesn't change the fact that's what they are. Someone who works at a profession doesn't cease to be whatever they are on their days off or while they're on vacation; even an extended one.
Mystery is a part of life. I will never know everything. Even you are potentially qualified for a surprise from your past. It may not be an illegitimate child. But even those people who try to eliminate all risk and mystery get surprised sooner or later. That's life.
Your words reveal so much. First, life, itself, is filled with risks and uncertainties. There's no escaping them but I think the people who try to run from them are the very ones who go for manufactured or unnecessary risks. They can't deal with the things that really scare them so they pursue dangerous situations that are empty in purpose. It's an attempt to prove to themselves and others that they're fearless and strong but instead it's their way of hiding their weaknesses; their inability to cope with daily life.
It's all an illusion because every day life brings new opportunities as well as new and different challenges. The same can be said of relationships. Neither of them are easy. They are ongoing, demanding, but both can be very fulfilling. It's like you see the people who can't cope with life's struggles; turning to drugs which is full of risks, but it's all in an attempt to run from the even bigger risks of just living life. It happens all the time. By making the choices they do they make life even harder for themselves by creating and living with secrets and lies.
These people don't seem to realize it is possible to live a life in which there are no skeletons in the closet that are looming and lurking on the horizon, threatening to jump out and catch us off guard. The truly heroic among us are the ones who can deal with life without attempting to escape. Having a one-night stand, as I've said before is a high risk, low reward activity so they only people who engage in it are the ones who, I feel, are incapable or feel unworthy of much else.
I get to know someone better than you do. It is more interesting, exciting, educational and fulfilling for both of us than just conversing at a cocktail party for thirty minutes.
Oh sure, I totally get that; you can get to know someone real well by rubbing genitals, penetrating them, and exchanging bodily fluids. Really? You must watch a lot of science fiction alien movies. They're always poking and gathering specimens in order to learn about us strange humans. That kind of getting to know each other may work in the animal kingdom but not in the human world. What do you learn by sleeping with someone? One can form a bond with someone you know through sex but a 'drive by' as you called the relationship in the movie and what I call a casual or one-night stand can only do that for the truly needy; people who don't know or are uncomfortable with any other way of interacting with or relating to people.
Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]
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movieliker1
9 years ago
Something need not occur on an ongoing basis for it to be true or descriptive. For instance, someone who is a philanderer, or cheater, may not be at it every single day but it doesn't change the fact that's what they are. Someone who works at a profession doesn't cease to be whatever they are on their days off or while they're on vacation; even an extended one.
an illegitimate child. But even those people who try to eliminate all risk and mystery get surprised sooner or later. That's life.
Your words reveal so much. First, life, itself, is filled with risks and uncertainties. There's no escaping them but I think the people who try to run from them are the very ones who go for manufactured or unnecessary risks. They can't deal with the things that really scare them so they pursue dangerous situations that are empty in purpose. It's an attempt to prove to themselves and others that they're fearless and strong but instead it's their way of hiding their weaknesses; their inability to cope with daily life.
It's all an illusion because every day life brings new opportunities as well as new and different challenges. The same can be said of relationships. Neither of them are easy. They are ongoing, demanding, but both can be very fulfilling. It's like you see the people who can't cope with life's struggles; turning to drugs which is full of risks, but it's all in an attempt to run from the even bigger risks of just living life. It happens all the time. By making the choices they do they make life even harder for themselves by creating and living with secrets and lies.
These people don't seem to realize it is possible to live a life in which there are no skeletons in the closet that are looming and lurking on the horizon, threatening to jump out and catch us off guard. The truly heroic among us are the ones who can deal with life without attempting to escape. Having a one-night stand, as I've said before is a high risk, low reward activity so they only people who engage in it are the ones who, I feel, are incapable or feel unworthy of much else.
before is a high risk, low reward activity so they only people who engage in it are the ones who, I feel, are incapable or feel unworthy of much else.
Oh sure, I totally get that; you can get to know someone real well by rubbing genitals, penetrating them, and exchanging bodily fluids. Really? You must watch a lot of science fiction alien movies. They're always poking and gathering specimens in order to learn about us strange humans. That kind of getting to know each other may work in the animal kingdom but not in the human world. What do you learn by sleeping with someone? One can form a bond with someone you know through sex but a 'drive by' as you called the relationship in the movie and what I call a casual or one-night stand can only do that for the truly needy; people who don't know or are uncomfortable with any other way of interacting with or relating to people.
For someone who says they have never had a one night stand, you seem to think you know a lot about one night stands and casual sex. Why is that? Are you a psychologist or a psychiatrist? Did you study psychology in school? What makes you think you are such an expert?
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mdonln
9 years ago
movieliker1 says > For someone who says they have never had a one night stand, you seem to think you know a lot about one night stands and casual sex. Why is that? Are you a psychologist or a psychiatrist? Did you study psychology in school? What makes you think you are such an expert?
I never said I was an expert, I'm merely expressing my views on the topic we're discussing. Like many people who have a higher education, I have studied psychology but not as a profession. As I mentioned before, I have always just listened to people and tried to understand them. I draw conclusions based on what they say - or don't say. I'm usually not that far off the mark.
Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]
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movieliker1
9 years ago
I never said I was an expert, I'm merely expressing my views on the topic we're discussing. Like many people who have a higher education, I have studied psychology but not as a profession. As I mentioned before, I have always just listened to people and tried to understand them. I draw conclusions based on what they say - or don't say. I'm usually not that far off the mark.
You never said you were an expert. But you certainly act like you think you are --- telling me this and that as if you know me better than I know myself. And if you are so smart, why do you think talking with others only includes you schooling them on everything under the Sun, even things which you admitted you have no experience in? Do you know the value in listening? Do you actually think you know more than everybody else about everything?
I don't think you are stupid mdonln. I get the impression you are an impressive person with good morals, ethics, education and intentions. But nobody knows everything. And even the smart can learn something from the less intelligent. One reason smart people are smart is because they don't just talk --- they listen. And even though they maybe impressed with their own intelligence --- they know they don't know everything. The only difference between confidence and arrogance is humility.
A lesser person would have been offended. I wasn't. I thought it was kind of funny. Unlike you going on and on about casual sex, one night stands and my sex life, I listened for the most part. And what I heard was someone who immediately volunteered she knew little of said activities and never had engaged in them. But went on and on judging and criticizing those who do. In spite of talking to someone who knew more about them than she, you kept telling me what the big picture was. The fact that I had to repeat certain points over and over showed you weren't really paying attention. Instead you had some inner desire to rant and rave about things you admitted you knew very little about.
I hope you feel better now that you have gotten some of that off your chest. Maybe one day you could go back and re-read our conversation and maybe this time you could actually learn something.
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mdonln
9 years ago
If I wanted to act like I knew everything wouldn't I have claimed I had first-hand experience in order to bolster my views? I can have opinions about things without engaging in them. I don't do drugs but I know how I feel on the subject. I also know enough about people who do drugs, have listened to the things they say led them into it, and have heard experts who study them. I don’t have to have done the research in order to formulate an opinion based on what I have observed.
I think it says a lot about you to think I'm judging or criticizing simply because I disagree with your views. For one thing, you think only people who have first-hand personal experience can understand it. I disagree. Since I was a child I’ve tried to learn from other people’s experiences as much as possible so I don’t repeat what I see as their mistakes. For instance, I don’t have to fall into a ditch to know how it feels and I don’t want to do it myself. If I see someone fall into a ditch, wouldn’t it make sense for me to bypass that ditch? What kind of fool falls right in after them; just to feel what it’s like? That’s silly. Also, am I supposed to say, 'oh wow, great, what a wonderful thing you do' when that's not how I feel?
You've said plenty of things about me you think are true and I’m sure you believe them to be but they’re not. I don't even bother correcting most of them. They’re your beliefs. I never understand people who are uncertain of their own thoughts; who are wishy-washy and negate everything that comes out of their own mouths.
Of course, I have confidence in myself and my own thoughts. Would I be discussing these things if I didn't think I had anything to contribute to the conversation? In school I was always the kid who raised my hand. Sure I could be wrong but I knew if I was wrong I’d at least know that and know I need to try something else. Other kids who sat on their hands may have known the answers but were too afraid to be wrong to speak up. Actually, it wasn’t fear of being wrong as much as it was fear of looking foolish if they were. The fact I am willing to state my opinions openly and honestly is proof I acknowledge I don’t know everything but am always trying to know more. And, if my intent was just to judge and criticize I could have simply done that and never responded at all. Those who judge usually don’t engage the people they judge in conversation.
As far as not listening, all I've done is 'listen' to (or read) what you've been saying. That's what led me to draw the conclusions I have. When we first began discussing the issue I didn't know what to think. I couldn’t figure out why, in your mind, saying goodbye was such a big deal. That was what made me respond in the first place - curiosity. What you said made no sense to me so I wanted to make sense of it.
Over time I formed an opinion - all based on the things you were saying and sometimes not saying. Like I said before that is how I think. It’s how I thought we all think but apparently not. If something seems odd I get curious and want to figure it out. Naturally, it will be to my satisfaction. It has to make sense to me. We’re different people. It’s like speaking two languages. Something may make perfectly good sense to you and not to me and vice versa.
You don't have to agree with my views but it doesn’t mean they’re wrong. I stand by what I’ve said. If I didn't think I was right I wouldn't have said what I did. This is kind of what I was referring to before. Dealing with other people is not as easy as copulating with them; anyone can do that.
Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]
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movieliker1
9 years ago
This post I am responding to is just a rambling pile of nonsense that has nothing to do with the issue of one night stands.
I can tell you, you have the right to your opinion but you don't know what you are talking about. And all the millions of people that enjoy one night stands and casual sex really don't care what you think. Especially after the they realize you don't know what you are talking about.
No one is trying to take away your right to an opinion. But your opinion will not be valid if you don't listen to others who are more qualified and experienced than you on said topics. You pontificating about your imagined moral authority is only going to make others roll their eyes and sigh or laugh when you open mouth.
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