MovieChat Forums > Top of the Lake (2013) Discussion > Promising show ruined by implausible plo...

Promising show ruined by implausible plot

posted 11 years ago by caitsith01
49 replies | jump to latest

Ok, first let me say that Top of the Lake was visually stunning, and that many of the performances and the overall atmosphere were excellent.

However, for me this show was ruined by numerous totally ridiculous plot developments. While I fully accept that a plausible plot might revolve around corrupt/deliberately inefficient policing, and I fully accept that Matt and his family might have had a lot of influence in the town, too many things happened which were just flat out illogical and ridiculous.

Just off the top of my head:

1. Robin just randomly takes it upon herself to follow a known pedophile and suspect to his isolated house in the dark, where he has weapons, and then provoke him until he goes nuts and starts shooting at her. She then doesn't bother to mention any of this to other police, even after he later kills himself.

2. Robin gets shot at and doesn't bother to mention this to any other police.

3. The police are fine with a large pack of bikies and hoodlums rampaging around in the hills firing guns and hunting for children on behalf of the person who is suspected of raping one of those children. When the bikies violently attack another group of children, no-one does anything about this at any stage.

4. Perhaps the biggest one, a PREGNANT 12 YEAR OLD WHOSE FAMILY ARE THE PRIME SUSPECTS IN HER RAPE IS RETURNED TO HER FAMILY WITHOUT QUESTION.

5. Matt seriously injures a woman by deliberately driving his car into a gate which she is holding, then proceeds to trespass onto the Paradise property and aggressively physically threaten various women and NO-ONE REPORTS IT TO THE POLICE OR DOES ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

6. Matt and his sons repeatedly trespass in various places and no-one does anything about it.

7. Matt pointlessly shoots a dog in front of Robin and she doesn't bother to mention this to anyone, let alone report it to the other police or arrest Matt for animal cruelty or for threatening her.

8. Robin has a willing witness against Matt who is prepared to testify, and Robin suspects Matt is willing to kill people to cover things up, yet she lets the woman wander off because she will give evidence "later". She also doesn't mention this to any other police.

9. Robin willingly goes up to Matt's house to hear his "confession" when she knows he is a violent psychopath who has probably killed other people and is also established as a liar.

10. Someone 'commits suicide' in highly suspicious circumstances and NO-ONE DOES ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

11. A pack of men with guns drive a young boy off the edge of a cliff to his death and NO-ONE DOES ANYTHING ABOUT IT OR INVESTIGATES IT OR ARRESTS ANYONE.

12. A police pathologist has serious concerns about a specific officer corruptly failing to investigate a series of deaths and NO-ONE DOES ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

13. Robin has hard evidence which supports the theory that someone was murdered (Bob Platt) and DOESN'T MENTION THIS TO OTHER POLICE OR INVESTIGATE IT FURTHER OR HAND THE EVIDENCE OVER TO ANYONE OR DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

14. Al effectively kidnaps Robin and brings her to have a "chat" with the prime suspect on a boat, and she DOESN'T MENTION THIS TO OTHER POLICE OR DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

15. Johnno gets stabbed in the leg and Robin and Matt DON'T REPORT THIS TO THE POLICE OR DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

16. Robin willingly goes out on a boat with a guy who is repeatedly making inappropriate advances towards her and who she suspects of being corrupt.

I'm sure there are more examples.

If you take this show at face value, Al and Robin are the only ranking police in New Zealand and Robin cannot go to anyone else in the whole of the police force with any concerns about anything. Al can do whatever he wants without ever needing to explain himself in any way.

Police work apparently involves repeatedly trespassing onto other people's property, keeping no records, never telling anyone where you are going or what you are doing, and if possible going by yourself to dark locations where you expect to find people with guns who would like to shoot and/or rape you.

"Bad guys" are allowed to walk around with huge collections of firearms, physically assaulting and threatening anyone and everyone, including the police, and no-one will ever intervene.

Most of the decisions made by most of the characters were totally illogical, and not in an "emotionally driven" or "corrupt small town" way, just in a "that makes no goddamn sense" kind of way.

So for me, a potentially great show was ruined by very, very poor writing.

[–] LuvNotWar 11 years ago

Yes the gun insanity is just absurd. New Zealand has some of the strictest firearm regulations in the world. Small children playing with orange plastic water pistols sometimes get arrested by armed police! It was ridiculous to show these stupid characters running about with the kind of arsenals that would be the envy of a Somali warlord.

Honestly after watching this I have to wonder if Jane Campion experienced something unpleasant at some time and has dedicated her life to punishing men forever. Her male characters are always thoroughly despicable in a very silly vaudevillian way with few or no redeeming features at all.

[–] caitsith01 11 years ago

Honestly after watching this I have to wonder if Jane Campion experienced something unpleasant at some time and has dedicated her life to punishing men forever. Her male characters are always thoroughly despicable in a very silly vaudevillian way with few or no redeeming features at all.

This occurred to me too. Was there a single 'good' male character? The best was probably the convicted drug smuggler son of a psychopath who was possibly sleeping with his half sister and who had severe emotional problems.

However, she also appears to hate women for being weak fools dominated by their emotional scars...

[–] first-things-first 11 years ago

If your post is true, there are a lot of damaged people in this world. It feels like we are in a stampede heading for the cliff.

If we can save humanity, we become the caretakers of the world

[–] tigerbos 11 years ago

Please Jane Campion wasn't the only writer of this film and exactly how are 'men' being punished? I always find it hilarious when there are TONS of films written by men about bad men yet no one questions this, however, if a woman writes the same sort of screenplay, suddenly she's a 'man hater'. Truly you haven't seen enough of her work if you think her male characters are all despicable in some way. Grow up.

I'll tell you in another life when we are both cats.

[–] LuvNotWar 11 years ago

Every male character in Top of the Lake is utterly despicable in almost every way possible. Jane Campion's male characters are almost always highly unlikable, although she took that to new highs/lows with this series.

On the other hand, her female characters are almost always paragons of virtue, or else meek and tragic victims of men at worst, although that's not common. Some would possibly call Top of the Lake a "typical female fantasy film."

[–] tigerbos 11 years ago

None of her characters are perfect. If you'd followed the plot, you would have seen there was corruption throughout the community by the male leaders. I guess you don't like imperfect characters. Not all of her male characters are almost highly unlikeable as you've said. You have OBVIOUSLY not seen all of her films to know this. How is Top of the Lake a "typical" female fantasy film? I'm not sure what gender you are but there's nothing within the plot of this film that I normally fantasize about. lol It is a shame that some people, men in particular, don't go to the trouble to put down a male director's highly 'dispicable' male characters but go off the deep end when a female does it..and by the way, she wasn't the only screenwriter and director of this film. The others were male....better blame those men for the 'dispicable male characters' as well.

I'll tell you in another life when we are both cats.

[–] LuvNotWar 11 years ago

Horrible men and wonderful women are a recurring theme in Jane Campion's work. As for the typical female fantasy film thing, I was merely having a bit of fun.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1977941/board/thread/207442481?p=1

That bad film aside, I get the impression you are one of the many who seem to think it's perfectly acceptable for a female filmmaker to portray all men as deviant criminals and sexual sadists but it's completely wrong for any male filmmaker to depict men who aren't irredeemable monsters and women who stray from the perfect goddess role. Hypocrite much?

[–] tigerbos 11 years ago

Lol which of her female characters are perfect or 'paragons of virtue'? What a load of rubbish.
What difference does it make if Jane Campion is male or female when there are more male directors out there who portray the majority of their characters as nothing more than criminals or abusers in some way? As far as I'm concerned, and get this, ALL of Campion's characters are imperfect, not just the male ones. Again, you apparently haven't seen all of Campion's work. Considering that only 4-5% of directors are female, you seem to think there are hundreds of films out there directed by women to begin with and there aren't - let alone tons of films directed by women who portray men as criminals...which by the way I guess you DO need to be reminded that men ARE the majority of criminals in the world and commit the most crime. I cannot help it if your male ego cannot take the fact that a good many men are sexual sadists and criminals and you got your panties in a wad over a film by a female director who pointed this out to you. Again, this film was also directed by a man and co-written by one as well. Why aren't you addressing that as I pointed out earlier?

I'll tell you in another life when we are both cats.

[–] zeladsaladdd 11 years ago

'Typical female fantasy film' !! Are you mad??? The women in this film were pathetic -- and exaggeratedly so. We're not meant to feel sympathy for them. Both the men and the women in this film were caricatures of their sex -- and that was the point.

[–] tigerbos 11 years ago

Yes he's mad and also a troll on this site who loves to harass people about this film...says he hates it but it's the only place he goes on IMDB...proof he has no life! lol

That was all rather thrilling. Anything more cinematographic could scarcely be imagined.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] tigerbos 11 years ago

Um no. I happen to disagree with your opinions and thanks again for calling me Alice. I really like that. Keep doing it because I can't think of anything better than being related to a classy director like Jane Campion...unlike you, who is a nobody who doesn't have anything better to do than to harrass people who enjoyed this mini-series. Despite the fact you hate it, it's critically acclaimed, it still has a decent rating on here and on Netflix...so despite the fact that you and others might not like it, it's still a highly acclaimed series..ha ha ha. Now go root yourself.

That was all rather thrilling. Anything more cinematographic could scarcely be imagined.

[–] erikaridpath 11 years ago

Here is the very obvious difference between your self and those of us you're attacking and harrassing: We are critical only of Top of the Lake - You are critical of us for being critical of Top of the Lake.

The only times any of us have criticised you is when you have made personal attacks against us simply because you dis agree with our opinions of your fav programme and its maker.

YOU are the one trolling and making snide personal attacks on people and their characters, all because you're annoyed that not every one wants to spend all their time promoting your mother's work, as you do.

So stop claiming we are at fault here, because every one can plainly see it's you.

[–] tigerbos 11 years ago

lol No. I'm not critical of your being critical of Top of the Lake. I just happened to disagree with your posts and you keep going on and on about it. If you would take a look, you would see that is so. Also, I don't keep hanging out on IMDB site of films that I don't like like you do and harrassing people who DO like the films I don't...that would be what YOU and luvnotwar does because the two of you are trolls. I am not. You just called me a cretin, is that not a personal attack? You don't like what I have to say therefore you accuse me of being a family member of Jane Campion's which I find hilarious as hell because you can't come up with anything better than that? lol

That was all rather thrilling. Anything more cinematographic could scarcely be imagined.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] tigerbos 10 years ago

lol Listen at the pot calling the kettle black.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-09OhQPiIg#t=85

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] lostsok0523-654-279444 11 years ago

I'm note sure how the female characters are 'almost always paragons of virtue" when one of the main characters, Holly Hunter's weird little queen bee, was clear just a huckster.

All the characters in this show, including the female ones, are deeply flawed. Heck, even Tui to some degree!

[–] tigerbos 11 years ago

You are totally right. My comments in reference to imperfect females have been totally ignored despite the fact it is true in reference to this show.

That was all rather thrilling. Anything more cinematographic could scarcely be imagined.

[–] beat 10 years ago

Every male character in Top of the Lake is utterly despicable in almost every way possible. Jane Campion's male characters are almost always highly unlikable, although she took that to new highs/lows with this series.

so are the women. i mean, campion obviously took the piss out of the women of "paradise", big time.
i'd say it's pretty even really, with johnno and jamie being actual heroes.

[–] Allybubba 11 years ago

This thread. YES. Just yes to everything.

[–] businesshugs 11 years ago

I think sometimes we have to suspend disbelief and just enjoy...not every story line has to have plausibility in real life. Im guessing from your comments you did enjoy watching it.. I do agree with all your points..looking back its all a bit mad.

Diane! Im holding in my hand a small box of chocolate bunnies.

[–] caitsith01 11 years ago

I enjoyed the cinematography and the atmosphere was great, but the above did seriously detract from the show for me.

I am happy for fictional stories to develop their own internal logic, but I'm not happy for them to have no cause and effect at all. If people are going to behave in seemingly perverse ways, then that is simply distracting and pointless unless the audience is given some basis to understand that behaviour.

Many of the things I list above are really about cause and effect - over and over again, I found myself thinking "but no-one would really do that in that situation!" or "why wouldn't he/she just..."

[–] erikaridpath 11 years ago

It's interesting and appropriate that this mini-series won an Emmy for cinematography but nothing else. Apart from looking nice there's nothing else to it.

[–] tigerbos 11 years ago

As if winning Emmy's really means anything. It doesn't. All award shows are political so the fact that this only won one award doesn't mean anything. You are basically saying that the other awards it was nominated for were just throw-away nominations? I'm not buying it.

I'll tell you in another life when we are both cats.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] tigerbos 11 years ago

No I did not. I merely stated that it was nominated for Emmy's. In this thread I mentioned "winning" Emmy's, not nominations. Of course you cannot read either besides being a woman hater can you? I never claimed it was a success merely because it was nominated for Emmy's.
Didn't I just see you claim that the only reason it was nominated for anything or given positive reviews was because Jane Campion is a female?

LUVNotWar's greatest triumph:
"Campion got a pass from many critics simply because she's an 'exotic' foreign woman director with an Oscar and PdO, and is a darling of the Canne set. If TotL was made by some American guy called Dave Smith or whatever, it would have been universally panned, because it should have been." <<<<more of your hatred for women...<<<look I have a vagina, YOU MUST give me an award for having it. I couldn't possibly have gotten accolades because of my talent. I thought having a cock and ballsack was necessary for getting all awards and into the history books. Look how wrong I was...

]ok everyone IT'S A PLOT BY ALL FILM CRITICS TO GIVE JANE CAMPION GOOD REVIEWS BECAUSE SHE HAS A VAGINA...HURRY WE'LL GIVE YOU EXTRA MONEY IF YOU DO THIS...FREE BLOWJOBS IF YOU'RE A MALE CRITIC...HURRY YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THIS BONUS....
Who knew that being born a white female in New Zealand would be considered 'exotic'? lol That's rich.

Your credibility = misogynistic twit.

I'll tell you in another life when we are both cats.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] Naldoman 11 years ago

ITA. About halfway through, I decided this "detective" was thoroughly incompetent and unprofessional. There's no rhyme or reason as to which vehicle she is driving, when she carries a gun or badge, why she NEVER ONCE wears professional attire, where she sleeps, what hours she works, or why she is "in charge" of the investigation when she was merely called in to HELP, not supervise.

So after episode 3 I was just watching the soap opera play out.

I agree it made no sense that the drug trade supported half the poor people in the town, where does the MONEY come from to BUY the drugs? I decided that there must be some pipeline to a big city where the drugs are sold - not locally - so that's the pipeline of cash coming into the community.

Even so - every bum had a car or a horse, so the people who were "trapped" could have left town any time - even Johnno - sheesh, is there only ONE TOWN in New Zealand?

My biggest peeve was the lake itself. Early on it's portrayed as the site of death, deadly cold, not a place to tread water lightly (...ugh...) By episode 5 kids are kayaking daily across the lake, people are diving in right and left AFTER it's stated that at night it's too cold to survive outside. And yet - at every hour of the day people are still diving into the DEADLY cold lake like it's mid-summer. WTF?

[–] SunPapushi 11 years ago

Yes. The first two episodes were great but then it just devolves into a long episode of Law and Order: SVU. Such a shame.

This is my murder-swagger, I wear the skin-trophy of my prey.

[–] LuvNotWar 11 years ago

You're being very charitable about the first two episodes imho! :)

[–] objviewer 11 years ago

I so agree! And the surprise twists

SPOILERS

made me flash to "Luke, I am your father".

And the taking of the carload of kids at the end? I mean, wouldn't the pedophile/policeman have waited till things calmed down? And the woman detective was one BAD judge of character.

And what about the big clue, "no one"? Did I miss something? Was there more than one?

Form over substance. Form over logic. Form over good story telling.

[–] eggyrocks 11 years ago

"No One", I believe, simply refers to the fact that Tui did not believe / know that she had ever had sex so couldn't possibly be pregnant...

I agree with much of the too much letting go of reality to totally enjoy and the plot-twists were incredibly predictable. Still an enjoyable watch all-in-all. Even if perhaps I'd call mystery incorporated before them in the future.

[–] trisul 11 years ago

Yes, it was excellent, the camera work, the acting, the character studies and the dialogues ... I had no problems suspending disbelief so I enjoyed it very much.

I suspect that the topic touched off a raw nerves, so you respond in irritation.

[–] caitsith01 11 years ago

I suspect that the topic touched off a raw nerves, so you respond in irritation.

If that's directed at me (the OP) then not at all - I have no problem with dark subject matter. I have a huge problem with idiotic plots.

[–] garnet-8 11 years ago

I liked the writing. Peter Mullan was amazing. The cinematography was wonderful. I'm hearing your points but it sounds like you live in the suburbs of some quiet neighbourhood and find it utterly unbelievable that such crimes could go on, I could easily understand how some of the plot points could take you out of the story. I found it very easy to imagine a remote village with a bunch of the people from that community on a payroll to a drug dealer and a crooked police chief going along with it all.

When you have a police chief who is part of a trafficking ring there is going to be a lot of crimes happening that the police will allow. Very believable in my opinion.

[–] LuvNotWar 11 years ago

I thought the writing was awful and Peter Mullan was completely wasted in a worthless role. The cinematography was nice though.

The depiction of the criminals and their crimes and their environment was completely laughable. Believe me every Kiwi who watched any of TotL giggled at the ridiculous hyper unrealistic version of "New Zealand" portrayed in the show.

Also yes there are pedophiles in the world even in NZ, it's not like we have no crime here, because of course we do. Everywhere has crime, it's something you get wherever there are people. The criticism on TotL's version of it is how stupidly unrealistically it's shown, with every single male character bar none being a disgusting sex offender of some kind or other, even the cops! There isn't even one adult male character who isn't a hack man-hater cartoonist's version of a sex criminal.

If only TotL wasn't so badly made in every respect besides the cinematography. The story, writing, characters, acting, directing, everything is just such a load of 5th rate rubbish that it's impossible to forgive it anything.

[–] eggyrocks 11 years ago

Whilst I agree the whole drug trafficking ring / police on the payroll or just plain useless storyline could exist, no one and I mean no one is going to leave a 8/9 month pregnant 12/13 year old in a woods after they found where she was..

After Jaime dies do they head back in to find her, no, they have some bizarre funeral, get pissed, shag and carry on exactly as they were....

[–] lesjesse 11 years ago

I have lived in two communities in the United States (over the past 40 years) that had similar levels of corruption and crime. Reporting things would endanger your life, so you tried to avoid certain people and places or correct the situation without law enforcement. Therefore, I had no problem understanding how things went unreported and uncorrected in this film.

I also agree about Peter Mullen--that was one of the most complex, interesting representations of an evil dude that I've ever seen.

[–] filmfancy 11 years ago

I also agree about Peter Mullen--that was one of the most complex, interesting representations of an evil dude that I've ever seen.

I agree that Peter Mullan did a great job, but why did he have a Scottish accent if he was supposed to be a New Zealander? His sons didn't have Scottish accents. I know Mullan is Scottish but at least the other actors attempted to have either an Australian or NZ accent (although I didn't buy Elisabeth Moss's fake accent).

And all the pieces matter (The Wire)

[–] lesjesse 11 years ago

I have lived in two places in the United States over the past 40 years that had similar levels of corruption and crime. Reporting things would endanger your life, so you tried to avoid certain people and places or correct the situation without law enforcement. Therefore, I had no problem understanding how things went unreported and uncorrected in the film.

I also agree about Peter Mullen--that was one of the most complex, interesting representations of an evil dude that I've ever seen.

[–] The_Ost 11 years ago

For me the least plausible things were Robin drinking an entire 40 of vodka straight and Tui having the baby with no physical problems, and no evidence of mess.

[–] filmfancy 11 years ago

Tui having the baby with no physical problems, and no evidence of mess.

Yeah, the baby just seemed to slide out. It was mentioned earlier that a 12-year-old's body might not be prepared to have a baby or that there could be complications so I was prepared to see Tui in agony. She's shown in some pain, but the birth seems to take no time.

And all the pieces matter (The Wire)