MovieChat Forums > Much Ado About Nothing (2013) Discussion > Something I didn't understand

Something I didn't understand

posted 11 years ago by pearlimaew
13 replies | jump to latest

I didn't quite catch all of this. Why was the villain against them getting married?

[–] far-strider 11 years ago

Most people think that Don John is the most underdeveloped of Shakespeare's villains. Basically he is evil for the sake of being evil, and he is honest about this. The best way to look at his motivations is anything that his brother is for, or makes his brother happy, he is against. Another way to look at it though is if John were legitimate, he would probably be the person marrying Hero to secure the alliance, so Claudio is taking what could/should have been his. As a bastard, he doesn't have any real place in this society, and no one trusts him because of an accident of birth that he had no control over, so he embraces his 'evilness' since that is what they expect from him, anyway.

~FS

"What's the point of having weak enemies? They just waste your time."

[–] NVDan 11 years ago

Why was the villain against them getting married?

Don John was on the loosing side of a civil war. His brother (Don Pedro), Claudio, and Benedict were on the winning side. He resents that they won and he resents that they've forgiven him. His only joy in life now is destroying the joy of those who won.

___
Sorry, sometimes my wife forgets that she is not an alien from outer space.

[–] dbwordgirl 11 years ago

Plus, he specifically hates the oh-so-hate-able Claudio, who "had all the glory" of Don John's defeat.

[–] NVDan 11 years ago

Plus, he specifically hates the oh-so-hate-able Claudio, who "had all the glory" of Don John's defeat.

It could be argued that his hatred for Claudio stems from the fact that Claudio has the love of Don Pedro that he feels he deserves as the brother. That, and he's a sore loser.

___
Sorry, sometimes my wife forgets that she is not an alien from outer space.

[–] plkldf 11 years ago

Wow -- a post about the actual movie, and not someone asking if he should see it, or somebody in France who thought the Kenneth Branaugh version was good but Joss Whedon produces only trash, even though he's never seen anything by Joss Whedon, and not someone getting all in a bunch because someone tried to be helpful about the spelling of one of the actors' names. Wow -- people who actually saw the movie, and want to discuss it. I had to search for this thread :-)

--
GEORGE
And all's fair in love and war?
MRS. BAILEY
[primly] I don't know about war.

[–] jschillig 11 years ago

The above posters are right--Don John wants to strike back at both his brother and Claudio for defeating him. And as the other poster said, his being illegitimate probably has a lot to do with it--he is consumed with jealousy of those who have what he never can. Many have described Don John as being a proto-Iago...there's also a preview of King Lear's Edmund in there, wondering why he shouldn't have the advantages of others just because of an accident of birth. "Why 'bastard'? Wherefore 'base'?...Now, gods, stand up for bastards!"

But I really liked the little wrinkle this version added of Borachio, Don John's lieutenant, having his own motive for wanting to slander Hero--he had a thing for her and was apparently rejected. I also liked that Borachio was horrified when he heard of Hero's apparent death--he wanted to get back at her for turning him down, but he never wanted it to go THAT far.

(Although I think it would have worked just as well if it had been Don John who had been hinted to have the thing for Hero and wanted to strike back at her for rejecting him. I wouldn't be surprised if some productions had taken that route.

[–] far-strider 11 years ago

"But I really liked the little wrinkle this version added of Borachio, Don John's lieutenant, having his own motive for wanting to slander Hero--he had a thing for her and was apparently rejected. I also liked that Borachio was horrified when he heard of Hero's apparent death--he wanted to get back at her for turning him down, but he never wanted it to go THAT far."

I read Borachio's motives slightly differently. Yes, he wants Hero, but she is so far above him that he would never have the chance of even being rejected by her. (She probably has no idea who he is, really). So his plan is to bring Hero down to his level by having Pedro and Claudio reject her; no other noble would want to marry her, thus clearing the way for Borachio to swoop in and be the "hero" by taking on such "damaged goods". . . When Hero 'died,' he was guilt-stricken, and confessed everything.

~FS

"What's the point of having weak enemies? They just waste your time."

[–] robl0051 11 years ago

Just came back from it. Loved it. I have one problem with the story, mostly why would Claudio believe Don John's lies a second time. I just don't understand what urged Claudio to follow him to the window, he already a proven Don liar. Did I miss something, or is Don John that convincing and Claudio that insecure about his new marriage plans?

[–] far-strider 11 years ago

Claudio is totally that insecure about his relationship (he couldn't even talk to Hero himself), but Don John offers proof not just to Claudio, but to Don Pedro as well. Even though the audience knows that John 'would rather be a canker in a hedge than a rose in his brother's grace,' almost everyone in the story thinks that he wants to, and should, be reconcile with his brother. What better way for him to show his loyalty than to stop his brother's favorite, whom he doesn't like, from making a monumentally embarrassing mistake.

~FS

"What's the point of having weak enemies? They just waste your time."

[–] robl0051 11 years ago

Perfect. Again enjoyed it a lot. Thanks

[–] hels-dunleavy 11 years ago

Lol, I've just come from exactly the thread you refer to second, and was just thinking the same thing. An ironic thread as well, given that the OP's sense of superiority seemed to be built mostly on ignorance, narrow-mindedness and a pride in presumptiousness. Nice to see a thread where someone just wants to put it out there that they enjoyed the movie.

[–] Jabber_Wookie 11 years ago

Wow -- a post about the actual movie, and not someone asking if he should see it, or somebody in France who thought the Kenneth Branaugh version was good but Joss Whedon produces only trash, even though he's never seen anything by Joss Whedon, and not someone getting all in a bunch because someone tried to be helpful about the spelling of one of the actors' names. Wow -- people who actually saw the movie, and want to discuss it. I had to search for this thread :-)

And yet you came and went without offering any post about the actual movie yourself... Congratulations.

[–] bossysheryl 11 years ago

Also keep in mind that Shakespeare sets it in Messina--Sicily. What has developed into the modern Mafia has been in existence and running things in Sicily for more than a thousand years. There are all kinds of cultural implications to Messina as the setting--the primacy of one's reputation above all, the implications of honor, etc. Don John is on the wrong side of all of that--and this is a way to begin striking back.