MovieChat Forums > The Imitation Game (2014) Discussion > Embarrassing and insulting

Embarrassing and insulting

posted 8 years ago by chris-rogers2
22 replies | jump to latest

Staggered at how poor this was. The historical inaccuracies were legion, and many would be obvious to those who even know a little about the period and the story, let alone those who knew a lot about it (even by reading Robert Harris’s novel Enigma – itself brutally traduced by an execrable adaptation) – the latter would find it astonishing that “Half a dozen people in a shed” could claim to have broken Enigma given the thousands who worked at Bletchley, or the impossibility of a WREN from a listening station seemingly drinking at a pub with codebreakers, etc.

But in fact it was the crass, modern, Americanised dialogue that grated even more, from bluntly patronising statements like “Commander Dennison, Royal Navy” or crude expositionary phrases or Clarke talking of “fixing” lamb for dinner.

An appalling travesty.

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] mbevertse 8 years ago

True more corect use of English spoken by Brits at that time would have helped.

About historical inaccuracies: this not a documentary. As every work of art it tels it own story, has it own goals.

[–] chris-rogers2 8 years ago

Indeed, but a film that hooks its entire raison d'etre around a well-known historical effort of this scale and nature plays with accuracy at its peril.

www.chrismrogers.net, a website for architecture and visual culture

[–] mbevertse 8 years ago

In a movie like this, most can be, perhaps even should be seen as metaphors. The story and the characters. It is not about depicting what did happen and if only in very general terms.

[–] chris-rogers2 8 years ago

Well, that's a view, but not one I share I'm afraid.

www.chrismrogers.net, a website for architecture and visual culture

[–] mbevertse 8 years ago

May i give one example of a metaphor and an absolute unjust fact that was of great use in the movie and was imo well done.

The Carlisle incident: A very important moment in the movie. It is a metaphor for a new problem Benchley part had to cope with. What do we do with the info we do obtain? To make it a clear point they movie makers did invent the Carlisle incident. Invented yes: the HMS Carlisle did exist, but was never at the Atlantic!

Still it does make the problem very clear. How can we still act on behalve of the greater picture if it concerns relatives.... What is infact an actual casualty. And why does it has to a number? Why doe we need stats for it?

By using as ship that was not there it becomes a metaphor and make a problem quite clear, one can understand very well. By using a lie. a situation that never did happen.

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] mbevertse 8 years ago

I do hear you, though this time i don't agree.

Again the Carlisle incident. There is a topic about it on this forum. Just see how people react at something that never did occur. They can own it. Talk about or it did really happen, they can imagine it did happen to them.

When the movie makers would have used an actual event. Oops they would have open the wounds of actual people and actual relatives. Which is not the goal.

The goal is everybody can feel / understand it. Talk about it. agree/ disagree. Not to open wounds. Not to have to force real people to tell there story. To make it a metaphor one can address the problem and not address the people which be necessary on both handling big issues as on telling the 'core' of a story.

None of the Greek tragedies did ever happen. Tough still they tell us a lot about human nature and problems of daily life that still everybody have to cope with.

We will, i assume never agree. But did address a problem every piece of art does have to deal with imo. How close can you get to it, and not hurt or lie.

The problem is even addressed in the movie. "You can not tell one lie" Where infact the makers state : this all is a metaphor.

I still believe though using 'correct' WII UK English would add to the quality of the movie. Making a good movie or any piece of art is not an easy job.

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] louiseculmer 8 years ago

opinion on here is fiercely divided as to whether the inaccuracies matter or not. Personally, I agree with you entirely. when you are making a film about real people and real events, there should be as much historial accuracy as possible.

[–] mbevertse 8 years ago

may i ask why? and with who or what do you agree?

[–] louiseculmer 8 years ago

my comment was addressed to the OP. i think historical accuracy matters when you are making a film about real people and real events. But some people don't, hence the division of opinion.

[–] Adams5905 8 years ago

Yes, I spotted the 'fixing' line as well-and the constant use of the word 'smart' in its American context, meaning 'clever', 'can I' instead of 'may I', Peter's mispronounciation of his brother's rank as 'ensyne', rather than 'ensin', and the men hugging each other when they'd discovered they had finally broken Enigma-they would simply have shaken hands-the only two who acted properly were Turing and Alexander... I do wish scriptwriters and dialogue coaches would do their jobs properly!.. The 'fixing' comment was particularly grating, as previously, I've only really considered Keira Knightley as a vacuous piece of eye-candy, and yet, here, she made a rather good fist of using received pronunciation, and sounded all the better for it!..

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe...

[–] eclipsed-bythe-moon 8 years ago

English men don't hug each other? I've never heard this.

[–] louiseculmer 8 years ago

Not in the 1940s, when men were expected to have more self control, and when showing too much emotion was considered bad form. It wqs different in other periods, In the early 19th century for instance, men showing emotion, etc was considered normal. For instance, nobody at the time thought it odd that nelson asked hardy to kiss him when he was dying. But from the mid victorian era, the notion of the 'stiff upper lip' became popular. And more recently of course things have become more relaxed again.

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] Cranmer (139) 4 years ago

I'm glad some other people noticed the period inaccuracies. We had one right at the beginning - a telephonist answers the phone with 'Manchester Police Department'. There are no 'police departments' in Britain. She would just have said 'Manchester Police'. There were quite a few other ones, such as Hugh Alexander using bad language and sexual references to a middle class woman he had only just been introduced to; couples 'jitterbugging' at a local village pub (highly unlikely before the arrival of GIs later in the war). Also highly unlikely that a middle class woman would drink a pint of beer in a pub. The worst one was the ridiculous modern stubble on the face of the 1951 police officer - until the 1980s only a vagrant would look like that!

[–] Stirchley 8 years ago

Agree with the OP. The screenplay was severely lacking & I don't think the Norwegian director had a strong grasp of how British people actually talk & interact with each other. At several points the elements of comic relief were cringeworthy.

The CGI was horrible too. Plus inaccuracies. There was one scene of kids wearing gas masks outside on the street. Weren't gas masks only meant to be worn inside? I may be wrong about this.

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] benbrae76 8 years ago

"The government threatened to punish people not carrying gas masks. However, a study at the beginning of the war suggested that only about 75 per cent of people in London were obeying this rule. By the beginning of 1940 almost no one bothered to carry their gasmask with them. The government now announced that Air Raid Wardens would be carrying out monthly inspections of gas masks. If a person was found to have lost the gas mask they were forced to pay for its replacement." http://spartacus-educational.com/2WWgasmasks.htm

[–] Stirchley 8 years ago

I remember an old gas mask that my parents still had after the war.

[–] Cranmer (139) 4 years ago

Sadly I don't think even most British people nowadays have a strong grasp of how British people interacted in the 1940s. I'm old enough to have known a lot of people who lived through that era but I supposed directors, writers and other film/telly people under 40 don't really have that experience.