Conservatives only get whiny when there is NO White Male Lead - The Great Wall (2017) Discussion

[–] liverpool26 8 years ago

"White Men have been the lead role in action orientated movies for ages"
Wait so Denzel Washington, jackie chan, Jet li and will smith are white, well I'm shocked.

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[–] lmtopeka-1 8 years ago

Why would you cast a Chinese man as a European making a journey to China to acquire gun powder? That would be pretty dumb.

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[–] Smokey_T 8 years ago

Why would you write a part, that required casting a white man, and the biggest star in this film, period...

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[–] lmtopeka-1 8 years ago

Why would you write a part for a white man? Let me see maybe because it follows the classic Hollywood plot device known as fish out of water. By bringing a foreigner into the story you can use that to introduce the plot to the audience through that character. Get your head out of your PC trash can.

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[–] Smokey_T 8 years ago

Because if you aren't Chinese the only possibility is you're white. Genius!

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[–] lmtopeka-1 8 years ago

You are the one asking why they wrote a part requiring a white man? Well they wrote it because it was a European so what else would he be but white? You think you could cast Will Smith as a European from the middle ages going to Asia?

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[–] Smokey_T 8 years ago

Again, why are you presuming that he needed to be white? The only Europeans anywhere near China in that time were Italians, not Scandinavians. Your logic is frankly nil. Matt Damon doesn't look Italian, so his role could be played by anyone. There were black men in the Roman legion, they were more likely to be there than someone that looked like Matt Damon.

I don't know how many Scandinavians there were in China in the middle ages. Do you? Any?

You'd be no less likely to find a black man in China in the early middle ages than you would a Finn.

It's a stupid argument that Matt Damon's ethnicity represents something more 'realistic' or grounded in historical fact than any other alternative. They could have cast a Polynesian instead of Matt Damon without sacrificing an ounce of credibility.

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[–] lmtopeka-1 8 years ago

The Dutch explorer William of Rubruck traveled to Mongolia in the 13th century around the same time Polo traveled to China. Of course they could have had anyone of any ethnicity go there if they wanted to write it as such but you just don't like that they made it a white man. The thing is though is that when you make a movie you have to be practical. If you are gonna make a 200 million dollar epic are you gonna cast one of the biggest stars in the world to ensure that you have a chance of making your money back or do you cast a polynesian actor just because you hate white people and want to make a movie without them and let the movie fail and not make any money? The fact is that Damon's casting comes down to dollars and sense. You gamble hundreds of millions of dollars on a film you want to get the biggest stars in it and you don't worry about people who hate white people.

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[–] Smokey_T 8 years ago

The distillation of your post is that for a movie to be successful it requires a white man, and that we as consumers should embrace the cynicism of Hollywood in presuming our taste in heroes to be as monochromatic as your own.

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[–] MethodTSixshot 8 years ago

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Glorious glory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLnPK70PLlk

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[–] Smokey_T 8 years ago

Would you like some original with that?

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[–] costumrs 8 years ago

Matt Damon doesn't look Italian

Please tell me what Italians look like. I'm Italian. Our skin tone varies from olive to pale. Our hair color varies from black, to brown to blonde to red. Our eyes vary from brown to blue.

The concept that Italians (or Greeks, or Spaniards, or etc.) are somehow distinctly different from other Europeans is ridiculous. Matt Damon wouldn't rate a second glance from any Italian if he was walking down the street in Rome, or Lindini, or Venice. (Unless they realized he was Matt Damon of course) No one would think, "Oh! That man isn't Italian!"

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[–] Smokey_T 8 years ago

Thank you, I was mistaken when I said that Matt Damon would have not have looked like a typical Roman in 1200 AD.

They were of course very similar to today's Italians, and no changes have been wrought upon them in 800 years...

Brilliant point. Really epic.

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[–] costumrs 8 years ago

And what changes do you think have occurred? Romans (to include everyone living on the Italian peninsula) where uniformly olive skinned, brown eyed and brown haired? Italy and Sicily have been a crossroads and melting pot for millennia. Italian is not a separate race. It is an ethnicity. The Romans displaced and interbred with the Etruscans, who were likely not the original inhabitants either.

Again, this concept that Italians, (or really any other "nationality") are completely uniform in physical appearance is ludicrous.

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[–] Smokey_T 8 years ago

No, the concept that Matt Damon would have blended in, or been representative of Italians in 1200 is ludicrous, as is your desperation to justify his presence.

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[–] costumrs 8 years ago

Yes, so desperate. What about him specifically would make him stand out?

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[–] Smokey_T 8 years ago

Probably his face, and his body, but if he opened his mouth that would just be the clincher.

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[–] costumrs 8 years ago

So, nothing. Accents are generally ignored or used to indicate differences. (Romans often using British accents for example)

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[–] Smokey_T 8 years ago

Yes, of course you are correct typical Romans all looked like Swedes or Norwegians they were anatomically indeterminate. Brilliant.

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[–] costumrs 8 years ago

Again, nothing. What physical indicated marks him as a Swede? What indicator would he need to mark him as Italian?

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[–] Smokey_T 8 years ago

The average height of an Italian today is a full 3-4 inches shorter than a Swede.

Were we to go back 800 years the difference would be greater with less short arse genetics in Sweden, and less tall genetics in Italy.

The minimum height for service in the Roman legion was 5'4". They couldn't be choosey, it was a nation of midgets. Get over it.

So yes, the height of a blonde blue eyed giant with a pale complection would have been just one of many features in a striking combination in ancient Rome, and not representative of Romans in any way shape or form.

Similarly, there are Chinese and Japanese that are over 210cm tall. Were I looking to build a cast of prototypical Chinese characters I would not look to acquire a dozen 7 foot tall freaks to play a remotely typical group 800 years ago.

Sorry, the long and the short of it is Italians leaned to darker hair, olive skin, and about the height of an adult Swedes testicles. This is why their signature move, that made their legions so successful was biting the ankles of their enemy from beneath their shields.

Deal with it.

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[–] costumrs 8 years ago

Sigh. Such nonsense.

Matt Damon is 5' 10" Wow, so tall. A veritable giant.

The current height of an American male in now 5' 10". A 6' 4" man would be tall, but no one, on seeing him, would declare, "Oh! He's so tall. He's obviously not an American!" No would they in Italy.

All populations are generally taller today. A Scandinavian would also be shorter. So would the Chinese portrayed in the film. It is a reasonable suspension of disbelief to "adjust" height.

Given that, the characters should be shorter than the actual actors. How much? Any number is going to be pulling something our of the hat. Let's say 3". So that mean Damon's character would be 5' 7". So just 3" taller than the average you're quoting. Tall, but hardly unusually so.

I would say you should accept that you are subscribing to the current mania that an actor must be exactly like some arbitrary standard for a character's supposed physical characteristics.

No one in Italy at that time would have thought anything about Matt Damon's character except that he was a bit tall.

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[–] and_hundred 8 years ago

"Why would you write a part, that required casting a white man, and the biggest star in this film, period..."

Why not? Do you have a problem with white men?

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[–] Smokey_T 8 years ago

In a film set in quasi-historical ancient China with no precedence it requires a reason, yes.

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[–] and_hundred 8 years ago

The fish-out-of-water story as a reason in not good enough for you?

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[–] Smokey_T 8 years ago

Maybe... But the impression I get is only a white fish was viable.

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[–] sjoeviln 8 years ago

What is a bit of fun is that the japanese made a movie about a japanese man who goes to Europe to get gunpowder. Seems he could have saved a large journey if someone had told him the chinese next door had it already :)

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[–] crypticanomaly73 8 years ago

Nope not at all. But I have noticed that virtually film or tv show on IMDB has one or more threads started by a Liberal bemoaning some perceived racism or the lack of minority groups even if the film was set or made in a period where there weren't any.

Sometimes a movie or tv show plot is so stupid that only the stupid can understand it.

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[–] ChazzJazz 8 years ago

wtf? there has been racism since the dawn of men, its called th selfish gene for a reason: survival

http://my-impressionz.cu.cc

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[–] ddbergkamp 8 years ago

I don't know. Why do partisan hacks such as yourself whine about everything?

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[–] arnavsharma2010-619-579568 8 years ago

Conservatives are crybabies.
In other news, water is wet.

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[–] subad 8 years ago

"White Men have been the lead role in action orientated movies for ages"
Yep, those whities, like Will Smith, Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Dwayne Johnson, Wesley Snipes, etc.

What you fail to realise is that they didn't cast Matt Damon because he is white, he was casted because he is an A-list actor who can put butts in the seats with his name. The aim of this movie was to appeal to China and the rest of the world. The rest of the world doesn't care about chinese actors, noone would watch this without Damon.

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