MovieChat Forums > 12 Years a Slave (2013) Discussion > How did the slavers view what they did?

How did the slavers view what they did?


There's an interesting scene in the film where an ex-slaver says that he turned to drink because at some level you know what you are doing is wrong and have to find a way to cope with what you are doing.

Then there was the slave rancher who was CLEARLY a massive alcoholic; I wonder did he use alcohol to enable his actions? To deal with any guilt/shame about his feelings/lust toward Patsey? Or was he just a jerk?

I am quite intrigued by how the slavers themselves managed and processed how they treated the slaves. Of course this would have been largely individual. Some slavers would have treated their slaves more humanely, others would be the victims of awful abuse and mistreatment. Others still would just be coldly indifferent to their slaves.

Of course the slavers too were products of their time. There clearly felt a need for slavery and the fact that they could even keep slaves at all meant that many of them were comfortable with the idea.

But by and large, was the zeitgeist of the time that slaves were akin to beasts rather than humans? It's clear that Solomon is articulate, skilled and artistically inclined and yet he is still looked down upon largely as a pet. Was Brad's character an anomaly or did many people feel bad for the slaves but just continue on anyway?

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There is no such thing as "a product of their times". Otherwise, abolitionist would not have existed. And likewise, things like animal-rights activists, conscientious objectors and "white" civil rights activists today. There is only pretending not to see.

Did they know what they were doing was wrong? Outside of psychopaths all humans are internally wired to know right from wrong on some level. So, since we're ultimately talking kidnapping, rape, torture and murder here, based on the sheer magnitude of the violence being inflicted (both physical and psychological -- probably even more-so the psychological), as conscience-infused human beings, there is utterly no way they could not have recognized the utterly immoral violence they were inflicting. None. Alcohol or otherwise. Free will to consciously choose right from wrong has nonetheless always led selfish and arrogant humans to crave two things: "The power of God", and manmade (and by extension, ALWAYS quite fallible) "order" for the long-term security of their own "chosen tribes". Always.

And just so we're absolutely clear...

Slavery itself is strictly a symptom of a much bigger disease called white supremacy. And white supremacy is, 400-years later, still very much the defining characteristic of America (For example, the Tea Party battle cry of "...take America back...",anyone?), even now (despite our so-called "black" President). Thus, making the questions you are currently asking about the subtleties of people somehow justifying dealing in human chattel, just because of the color of other people's skin, just as relevant, still. Because the violence of white supremacy didn't magically end with the abolition of their "legal" enslavement. It simply became much more covert. Otherwise, there would not have been 100 more years plus of "Jim Crow" segregation, and J Edgar Hoover, and the War On Drugs, etc.. And the seemingly endless protests by minorities to end the institutional violence against them that we are still seeing to this very day. So, yours are actually not just historical questions, after all. They are absolutely just as relevant right now. "How DO so many millions of people just go about their daily lives seeing the now-much-more-subtle institutional violence that we're seeing in this country, on the evening news just about every night...still?" "Just products of OUR time?" No such thing...



No man lies so boldly as the man who is indignant.

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I must categorically disagree when you argue that there is no such thing as ‘a product of the times.’ Many people are very much a product of their time. It’s like delving into how the Nazi’s rose to power and watching the indoctrination of young German children, raised to both fear and despise the Jews. It’s like exploring the climate of fear and oppression in Stalin’s Russia or the homophobic or misogynistic attitudes that arise in religious cultures. There is always a zeitgeist of the time; a mood or feeling or set of values that represent a period in history.

Many people assume when someone says that someone is a ‘product of the times’ they are redeeming or excusing the behaviour of an individual. Of course this is not true. There are always individual factors that also influence a person’s behaviours and decisions and of course there are always unconventional, rebellious or braver souls who buck trends. There are also those who silently conform, but people are still influenced and moulded to a degree by the circumstances under which they are raised and born particularly in eras before the internet, mass media and social networking when people were largely ONLY exposed to a very limited set of values/experiences.

I do agree however that many slavers simply ‘pretended not to see’ and this is still very valid in today’s world where slave labour exists in an arguably more insidious form; far away, oversees, in hidden factories where it isn’t visible. We no longer, by and large, unless in the case of abductions or sex trafficking, have slaves living in our homes, but we still promote slavery when we do our shopping.

I was intrigued by Master Epps (spl?) because he clearly seemed an unstable man and also a man of privilege and wealth who also disrespected his wife, the law and everyone else as well as the slaves. The slaves, who he so clearly viewed as beneath him, obviously inherited the bulk of his wrath, though he was clearly a bit of a maniac anyway!

I also have to disagree with your declaration that slavery is about white supremacy. There have always been slaves and slavery has included people of every race; from European slaves, African slaves, Russian slaves, Chinese slaves, children, women, men, maids in households, sex trafficked victims, sweat shop labourers and many others. Slavery is as old an institution as prostitution. The African American enslavement is more recent in our history and of course the slaves were dehumanised and treated terribly because of their race, however it is untrue to claim that ALL slavery EVER was racially motivated. Slavery was by and large the rich exploiting the poor ‘other.’ Slavery is almost exclusively a rich man (or woman’s game). Rarely, if ever, do the poor own slaves.

There are obviously strong racist undercurrents in America still. I am not American so I can’t speak personally of the race relations in America, except that I think that America is so large that it enables pockets of seperateness and extremism to fester in a way that is more difficult to achieve in smaller communities, for instance the Maori of New Zealand (a smaller country with a far smaller population). The Maori have a history of having their land invaded and usurped, their women raped and war waged and yet the relationship between the Maori and the Pakeha (white Europeans) is LARGELY peaceful. Perhaps this is because the land mass is so much smaller than America? The two literally NEEDED to find a way to co-habit in the end. In America, such a large land mass enables people to form smaller communities and tribes that never need to interact, meet or cohabit - think the forward thinking NY versus the god fearing little town in Alabama for instance.

I do think your comments about slavery are somewhat misguided. Slavery was not invented by the white man, but it was certainly practiced by the white man in recent history. You also must remember when thinking about history the vast swathes of white people who did NOT own slaves and were not invested in the trade; the poor, the starving, the sick, the Average Joe. Slave owners were by and large wealthy and privileged people as it still largely is today. The sin of the ‘every man’ is that they sit by and do nothing either out of ignorance, fear or cool apathy.

Of course today’s time is also such a hodge podge of everything. It is hard to be blind nowadays when we are so much more educated and informed.

But I am curious as to what the zeitgeist of this time was; how was the economy? How did this period of slavery begin? What was the average American’s perception of slavery? Was it widely opposed? Were many slaves freed or treated well by their ‘masters?’ I am intrigued to learn more about this time and read stories and diaries of the time as this film has really awoken in me a curiosity about the lives of the slaves and also the slave owners themselves; how did they reconcile themselves with what they did? Did they view the slaves as literal beasts/animals or did they pretend to think this to justify their actions?

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Here is the main gist of my response to a somewhat similarly toned inquiry from a few days ago, on a different board. Primarily, I repeat it here because I very greatly believe that the continuing evils inherent in the continuing concept of white supremacy (and it's colonialist legacies) are STILL far too painfully significant, for far too many billions of Earth's population, to be detachedly viewed as "curious" or "interesting". Also, based on that previously mentioned "tone", my responses will be limited at best from this point forward. The rest, I hope, will be self-explanatory:

First, because of the twin evils of chattel slavery and (probably more significantly) "Jim Crow" segregation, racism, as it has evolved in America, is in many ways a pretty unique beast compared to what it is/has been in other Western countries. Specifically, in terms of the incredibly twisted psychopathology that has evolved in America since slavery itself was abolished. It is an ever-evolving, incredibly complex and contorted monstrosity, to say the least. In fact, I tend to believe the only somewhat comparable example, in terms of pure, unmasked ugliness, is the apartheid system in South Africa. And, as I've said before on these boards, it is such a convoluted mess that most Americans themselves have long since lost the ability to discern the full impact (especially, psychologically) of it all (on both blacks AND whites). Because, as I said, it's always constantly evolving. Like some sort of mutant, killer virus. And if the Americans themselves have so very little real understanding of what's going on in their own little "racial cesspool", chances are, as a non-American, you probably understand this twisted mess far, far less than you are unknowingly conveying that you think you do. But...(despite how that last statement probably makes you feel)that's not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, keep it that way! It's a gross, smelly mess! And the less you get it on you, the less chance you have of catching the (soul)"killer virus".

Second (and this is true, whether we're talking America's unique brand of racism or not), to whatever commendable degree that you actually DO understand racism, it's ultimately because you WANT to. BUT...no matter how passionately you WANT to understand this "race" stuff, it can never begin to hold a candle to 400 collective years of HAVING to know this stuff, from all angles (to an absolutely microscopic degree). To being under a constant, hidden, and unpredictable threat of a (mysteriously inflicted and plausibly denied) cracked skull or a one-way trip to the morgue. For unwittingly violating one of racism's many, many unwritten and ever-evolving rules, in the most seemingly mundane of circumstances. Translation: They MUST maintain a constant state of vigilance (and learning about this stuff)...AT ALL TIMES...OR ELSE! You are allowed to regularly get your fill of the endless, soul-bludgeoning, ugliness of it all, and turn off the telly or put down the newspaper or book. "To get away from it all for a while." They are not! So while you may have studied this stuff quite passionately for years and years. And as a result, presume, that your opinions about race have "just as much validity as anyone else's". Well...not exactly. It's not theoretical for them. They've lived it. And shed endless amounts of actual blood, sweat and tears as a result of it. All day, every day. With no break for lunch. And no holidays. So, unless we've walked in their shoes, generally the people who've been hurt the most by racism are the ones who know what it looks, feels, tastes, smells and sounds like best.








No man lies so boldly as the man who is indignant.

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Pay no attention to littlegeorgie. His hatred for white people defines him and it clouds his judgement. His lack of intelligence doesn't help, either.

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Ask any commercial farmer how he copes. To see the suffering on such a regular basis of any breathing creature and to continue for the sake of a dollar, it has to damage your soul.

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No slave was treated like a human. That's why they were slaves, because they were seen as inhumane and different because they weren't white.

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They used the bible. They went to church every Sunday to convince themselves of their superiority and wash their sins away. Then they sinned the rest of the week. It's a pretty good system. Been working for centuries.

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Like Master Epps said , to the whites blacks were baboons or something , not humans.

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My thoughts - I think you're right on when you relate it to pet owners.

Most pet owners think they 'own' their pets lives, and can do whatever they want with the pet.

Some people lock their dog on a chain in the yard, and there it stays, for years. Basically all they wanted was something to alert them if someone is trespassing on their property.

Obviously a horrid life for the dog - but the human doesn't empathize with the animal - it just sees it as a tool.

Some people maybe had parents who treated animals that way, so the person grows up to treat animals that way. Other people grow up seeing pets valued, and can't understand how others can't love and value a 'pet'

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