MovieChat Forums > Borgman (2013) Discussion > There is no shame....

There is no shame....

posted 10 years ago by jonhopper217
4 replies | jump to latest

...in looking things up. I realize, because I too am guilty of it, that people love to jump on these boards and say a movie didn't make sense or that it was silly. It doesn't hurt, after viewing a movie to read about where the movie was made and then maybe research it's folklore. The opening quote is not actually a Bible quote, but resembled Genesis 6:1, so I knew the angle of the movie immediately. Having just seen Linthamos' Alps (and Dogtooth), as well as Thale, I was aware of some of the folklore, but Borgman was different in many ways. It is a hilariously funny movie in one sense, but it is a metaphor for the world's crumbling society. Where the haves are so concerned with appearance, while the have nots never stand a chance. Borgman flips this on its head. Anyone who has seen it, realizes just how ridiculous it is that a simple bath and haircut can trick someone so easily. I think if you watch Borgman from an American point of view, you will not understand the intricacies of the fable, but literally 4-5 minutes of research, even after the film is over, can bring films such as this, so much more depth.

One thing I've always been amazed by with horror fans, is when films are heavy on psychology, philosophy and folklore. People like and hate them, just like other movies, but usually for entirely the wrong reasons. I never realized just how much this was so, until I saw comments about Martyrs. There are fans, with multiple college degrees and well versed in history and philosophy (aka actual friends of mine), who believe it's one of the greatest horror movies of all-time....and don't understand one shred of its symbolism and metaphorical contend in regard to French government. Before you bash me for being pretentious, I'll explain again. I did not understand all that was in this film, but three googles searches, one a refresher on Genesis 6:1-8, nephilim and the Dutch class structure. Like I said, there is no shame in not understanding something, but to bash it, without researching why it made no sense, is in my opinion, just laziness.

[–] Exies 10 years ago

I understood Matyrs just fine and still think it's a poor movie. A lot of movies that people praise as deep or disturbing have failed to impress me, because I'm interested in different things.

Like you said, there is no shame in looking something up or needing more context. And probably a regular thing for people that seek out differing films from around the world. For example, when I was much younger a lot of Asian cinema was rather weird to me because of their cultural humor and acting style but being open-minded has given me some great experiences.

I've read a few posts where people seem to be lost on the fact that this story is about alps and don't understood why the story played out as it does, which is fine. If you're not into German folklore, how would you know? But it still does bother me that folks come to misinformed conclusions. However, I don't think it's due to stupidity but a lack of context for them to understand, and sometimes these films are very subtle.

The film was okay. It was a fine story but didn't leave me thinking about it afterwards or pondering philosophical ideas. 6/10 for me. Above average.

"Can you hear them singing?"

[–] jonhopper217 10 years ago

I am making a general assumption from the comments I've read, but most people who leave comments seem to be American, with little or no interest in understanding the why of foreign cinema, especially Asian film. Months ago I watched a film called Rigor Mortis and loved it, but truly didn't understand some of the folklore. After reading about it, the film became even stronger, but I'm actually glad I knew later, because I'd have been looking for it.

While I'm not defending Martyrs, because it is definitely an acquired taste, I'm astounded by how many people viewed it as a straight horror film, yet knowing Pascual Laugier's films, they all have deep meaning that goes well beyond what we see on screen. There is so much political commentary in that film, yet almost all the people, actually, I'll change that, ALL the people have missed that aspect of it, because they don't care about French culture or the deeper meaning of films. I've also long debated who the Martyr in the film is, but to be honest, even that is up for debate, because we use words now without caring about their meanings.

As for Borgman, I'm with you on the rating. I believe I gave it a six and then changed it, because I did think about it afterwards and found things I liked. Then again maybe it was just an extra point for the lovely nanny, who knows. I also tend to appreciate films, good or not, that make me search for more information after. So maybe in a year or two I'll think back and hate it. It's possible.

[–] LeCadavreExquis 8 years ago

You Google searched the 'Danish class structure' cause the au-pair of this Dutch family was Danish, I assume?

Ghosts and lovers, they will haunt you for a while

[–] jonhopper217 8 years ago

You took a year to troll me. I commend you on your patience. I did make and error when I wrote this at 3:41am and yes, I should be corrected, because of the six people who read this, the big takeaway was my mistake. I congratulate you and your award shall be arriving in the next couple of days. Until then, bask in the glory of your excellence.