MovieChat Forums > Borgman (2013) Discussion > Explanation of this movie (for retards)

Explanation of this movie (for retards)


Borgman and his crew aren't real human beings, they are the personification of an impersonal God, God as total force of nature. They are portrayed as forest spirits, and their hypnotic sway over living things is only an illusion caused by their being personifications of natural law.

The family of man, in their angular house, is affected by the destructive forces of nature inherently, being of it themselves. In an attempt to blockade these harsh realities from each other, they end up wiped away, fortress and all, fertilizer for some kind of new seed, growing closer to natural law.

Today is the day to say I love you to your best friend - chinese proverb

reply

[deleted]

pwned

reply

Interpretation is still allowed.

The folklore surrounding the Alp does closely resemble Borgman and his cohorts but not 100%. There are many specifications they don't share, like wearing a hat, among others. And they also have characteristics pointing to other mythologies.

Some people have never heard of such a creature, so not "being able to figure it out" is nothing to shame someone over. And you can't just yell "Alp!" and think the film is fully explained. If you're satisfied with it, so be it. People can still have discussions.


We've met before, haven't we?

reply

THIS MOVIE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ALF. HE WAS A FRIENDLY ALIEN.

reply

Yes, I know what an alp is, and I knew what it was in my original post. The image of Borgman sitting perched naked over the woman, giving her nightmares, is taken from alp folklore. But that is about, what? One minute total of this two hour movie? And what about everything else that happens?

It's the equivalent of me saying that 56*8=448, and then you getting really angry and screaming "no, you're wrong, 56*8='some big number'". It is being willfully ignorant, and superstitious of calculation and precision. The reason I don't mention alps in my original post is because I think it is such a small part of the movie that it's irrelevant to a simple explanation of the movie's themes.

The "(for retards)" part of the thread title is merely a tongue in cheek way of saying that for those people who came onto this board after watching this movie and having no idea what they'd just seen, here's some attempt to correlate the ideas that others might be curious about. If someone actually finds it offensive... well, that person is probably intellectually insecure. You saying that the whole movie is summed up perfectly by "alp", and that I am stupid for not knowing this, is A) making false assumptions about what I know, and B) deriding me for putting more thought into this movie than you.

Today is the day to say I love you to your best friend - chinese proverb

reply

I hear you, obviously tongue in cheek with the phrase retards! (it made me chuckle anyway!)
I did feel pretty thick after seeing this film and came on here to get a dumbed down explanation.
I watched it having no idea what it was about.
I still have no idea.
I don't know about German folklore or what an alp is.
None of it made any sense to me. Your theory is as good an explanation as any, I'll take it.



-
frosties are just cornflakes for people that can't face reality

reply

Nice, did you make this up on your own!? WOW, you are so smart! Were you masturbating when you came up with this?!

reply

I know I did, right after I read it.

reply

Your behavior is not as friendly as your username.

reply

This goes deeper than surface religion... "God is good" and "demons are bad". For humans, nature is a neutral, chaotic force... it can easily be, and often is, personified as demonic. "Forest spirits", as I called them, are more often portrayed as monsters than benevolent fairies. Furthermore, priests are not inherently good. World priests work for world goals, they are generally pro-human and anti-violence against humans, anti-destruction, and anti-nature. Yes, this is a schism in philosophy, cognitive dissonance, but most human beings are not smart enough to understand this and simply keep on trucking with their twisted self-serving philosophies.

As far as "and they descended upon earth to strengthen their ranks", I take "earth" as being the realm of humans, who are below nature. Nature is greater than earth and is a cosmic force that comes down to earth to give it life, or take it away. Earth is not the center of the universe. I was careful not to say "earth's natural law", as you did, I merely said "natural law". When angels come down to earth, they are not of the earth, but they are closer to natural law than the creatures of the earth.

If the point of the movie was merely that "Borgman is bad and he steals children for selfish reasons"... what was the point of illustrating so thoroughly the folly of man in general, and the ideological reasoning why he should lose his children? It's because the movie is about the evils of humanity, not of Borgman. Borgman is an unconscious neutral force, like gravity. He flows like water through the family, and, at odds with this natural law, the family destroys and loses it's own offspring. Borgman didn't come in and steal the children, the family gave up their children, and the children were lost to nature. Watch the movie again, with the knowledge that Borgman is a metaphorical creature, and doesn't actually exist. He represents the nightmares and degradation through fear of the family, an institution against natural law.

Whether you think the metaphorical "actions" of Borgman are "right" or "wrong", they seem to me to be merely an illustration of reality, and the physical mechanisms of the natural structure that we are all indebted to for survival. You can stare up at the stars and scream "you're wrong" all you want, it won't make them go away.

We CAN look at "Borgman" as a simple home invasion thriller with a supernatural twist... but so much is esoterically conveyed beyond that simple premise. This is a morally complicated and very mature fantasy, in which Borgman is the hero and saves the children from a fate worse than death, an unnatural life.

reply

Movie explanation for "retards", alps (German folklore) infiltrate a family's home. It really is that simple.

"Can you hear them singing?"

reply

Straight from the caveman's keyboard, such an exoteric, ignorant "analysis" of the film it deserves a razor slash on the forearm, and not even realizing that the exact same post has already been made by another identical drone (there are three thousand monkeys for every man).

"Alps", yes... there's 2% of the movie explained at most in the whole realm of alp folklore. How about then, if you wish to remain steadfastly focused on your one-dimension, you attribute some significance to the folklore? Real-world thematic ramifications? What does the art mean? Even just to you... does it make you feel things? Any realizations about life in general? Who or what is an alp? Is it real or fictitious? If it's fictitious, what does it represent? What is sleep paralysis? What are nightmares (nightmare is another word for alp, alp is another word for nightmare)? Who came up with this folklore? Who compiled it? Why did Alex van Warmerdam choose to juxtapose the traditional folklore of "alps" with the other seemingly disparate elements of the movie?

I have some answers (answers that are so inane to the overall depth of the movie that they don't even warrant space on this thread, which attempts to be a simple explanation), but since you're so fixated on "alps" and know so much about them, I'll designate you this thread's "alp" expert and allow you to explain. A functioning society finds a valuable use for every monkey, in line with his personal inclinations.

I will give you that I do not have a full understanding of all the mysteries of the movie. If you have something to add BEYOND, that would be great, you could join the human race and become a constructive individual. To stare at words on the screen that hold such meaning, as you give the monosyllabic shout of "alp alp alp" and pound your chest in blind imitation of the other monkey's around you, parading yourself for such a simple and obvious one-word association that has already been made a hundredfold (100th monkey rule?)... well, how about another slash? Two total, on the left arm. This is monkey's discipline. Lesson of the day: words have meaning, meaning isn't words. We converse to gain personal knowledge of the universe, a vast mystery beyond human understanding.

reply

So far, you've insulted any person who doesn't understand the movie by calling them 'retards", and you show yourself not being able to have a civil conversation without resorting to insults.

Why would I?

"Can you hear them singing?"

reply

(SPOILERS). My take on the film is somewhat simplistic. Camiel and his crew are demons. I base this on several reasons.

1) The intro, And they descended upon the Earth to strengthen their ranks is a quasi-biblical quote suggesting those evil are fallen angels (demons.) Also for what it's worth the production company is Angel Films.

2) We see a priest early on lead some men to the underground lair of Camiel with the likely intent to kill him. A demon being the only man-like creature acceptable for a priest to kill.

3) Camiel is a variant of Camael, an angel in Christian and Jewish mythology.

4) The demon sitting on the chest inducing nightmares is inspired by a Fuseli painting and not necessarily taken from Alp mythology but more likely demonology in general.






He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator.

reply

Yes, I definitely see the demon/fallen angel analogy... but is the film pro-demon? What significance do these demons have on real-world events, and what is the film trying to say?

Is the film a cautionary tale about emotionally broken families resulting in the children falling to the dark side of humanity?

When Borgman gives the woman nightmares about her husband... those aren't merely delusions, are they visions? We see that the husband has a dark streak... is Borgman manipulating the woman by giving her false information about her husband through dreams, or is he trying to do good by showing her the truth?

What about Camiel's story that he tells the children? Is it an act of hypnotism, or is he trying to honestly inspire?

If anything, the film's portrayal of these "demons" is morally neutral bordering on purely positive, and this deserves regarding in any proper analysis.

reply

My first thought about the operation was, that they implanted something into the children. But now I think they just cut off the children's angel wings as a metaphor for their innocence to make them one of their own. Maybe they are as dead as the patents are and they just became forest or nature ghosts.

BTW, I wasn't offended by the retarded thing. I was glad somebody was able to give me a brief jump start. And, I'm German and I didn't knew the alp thing before. So thumbs up for the initial post. 😉

reply

I thought maybe the operation was to "steal the children's souls"...kind of how Marcellus Wallace has the bandage over his neck in Pulp Fiction. It makes sense to me, anyway, and is consistent with my interpretation of the film...

"Hot lesbian witches!"

reply

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

reply

LOL that is from Billy Madison, isn't it?

reply

Lol, yes it is!

You get a Gold Star.

reply

[deleted]