MovieChat Forums > The Newsroom (2012) Discussion > His Episode 1 meltdown is factually very...

His Episode 1 meltdown is factually very wrong


Technically, this was an Aaron Sorkin rant, but regardless of how one wants to look at it, it was at best hugely oversimplified and at worst, completely wrong:

For starters, all those countries that he mentions that "have freedom," actually do not have freedom as the U.S. has it. You do not have the free speech rights, privacy rights, press freedom (their governments regulate their media to ensure "fairness," which generally means that the media is all the same in opinion (i.e. unfair)), etc...in the likes of the U.K., France, Germany, Italy, etc...that you have in the United States. You do not have the right not to have act as a witness against yourself (right to remain silent) in those countries. And in none of them does one have the right to keep and bear arms---to the extent one has a privilege to keep arms in them, they do not have the right to bear them at all (i.e. use them in self-defense). So all of those countries pretty much deny a person the most fundamental of all natural rights, their right to self-defense. In addition, those countries also pretty much all have voter I.D. laws and have more restrictive abortion laws then the United States (which is a positive or a negative depending on your opinion of abortion I suppose).

He gets wrong both the statistics about infant mortality and life expectancy. The U.S. life expectancy rate is the highest in the world or among the highest in the world if you correct for car accidents and homicides. Car accidents and homicides reduce the life expectancy statistic, but they are wrong to include, because the statistic is generally used to gauge the quality of a country's healthcare, i.e. if it's lousy, the implication is that the healthcare system is lousy. So you don't include car accidents and homicides when measuring it. I would personally add a third element to it, which is that Americans are too fat in general as well, which probably also lowers it, due to all of the obesity-related diseases Americans suffer from as a result.

On infant mortality, that statistic is bad because the U.S. records an infant as being an infant from the moment of birth. Other countries record an infant as being an infant after twenty-four hours of birth. A lot of babies die within that 24 hours, so it gives the U.S. a worse rating than it would have it if measured infant life the same way other countries do.

He says the U.S. is third in median household income. Again though, this isn't the statistic you use. The main statistic one uses to gauge standard of living is per capita income, in which the U.S. is the highest, minus some countries with small populations like Luxembourg. Norway has a higher per capita income, but cost-of-living there is also significantly higher, they have a much smaller population, and 25% of their GDP is from oil exports.

On the education statistics, I'll grant him that, but that is the fault of the public education system which is controlled by liberals, the very people he is saying need to win. The public education system is most definitely not a product of conservatives.

Not sure what he means by "labor force" (of which America's is the world's most productive) but he is also wrong on exports. The United States as a country, was number one in exports for many years. It was exceeded recently by China, so as a country, it is now #2 in exports. However, it rates at #3 because the European Union is counted as a single exporter. But the EU is not a single country, so the statistic is a bit misleading (this is one of the oversimplifications).

I agree with him on the number of people who believe in angels (but that isn't necessarily a bad thing) and I agree with him on per capita incarcerated, but that is primarily due to gang violence, which itself is due to a variety of factors, but partially driven by policies that liberals, like him, demand, such as the welfare state policies that drove up poverty and crime in black neighborhoods.

On defense spending, yes, the U.S. does spend more than the other countries combined, but that is because those countries barely spend anything. The United States is the prime underwriter of global trade and global security. It is easy for those other allies of the U.S. to barely spend anything when they have been living under the protective umbrella provided by the U.S. for the past sixty-plus years. The U.S. accounts for 75% of NATO spending. The U.S. is who keeps the Strait of Hormuz, where about 25% of the global oil supply passes through, open. The U.S. is who keeps China at bay in that area of the world. It is who keeps Russia at bay regarding Western Europe. When France needed to airlift its troops into Mali, who did it call? The United States. To the extent that other countries' militaries do anything, they depend on the U.S. for things like aerial refueling, air transport, targeting capabilities, etc...as it is, the only other country in the world with any power projection capability is the United Kingdom, and even they would have trouble pulling off something like the Falklands again. They are struggling as it is to afford their two new aircraft carriers, without which they will become a second-rate naval power.

And then he says, "We sure used to be" regarding being a great country...REALLY? Because in those days, blacks, women, gays, etc...were all highly-oppressed. Industry polluted on a massive scale and workers were abused horribly. And we did things for "moral reasons?" To an extent, yes, but it also had a lot to do with national security. The U.S. effort in World War I and World War II in particular were about national security. Going to the Moon was all about national security. And about that, what's this about we "explored the universe"...? We still do! Probably more so now than in the past. We have much better telescopes now that let us see into deep space and we continue to send out space probes. We just recently had one reach Pluto for the first time, sending back pictures of Pluto for the first time in history. We have probes on Mars. We have a probe out in interstellar space even now, until it runs out of power. Sending humans into space is great, but lack of human space exploration doesn't mean we do not explore space.

Then he makes the classic liberal claim about "waging war on poor people" as opposed to "waging war on poverty." Well for one, there is a tremendous amount of evidence that the so-called "War on Poverty" essentially WAS a war on the poor, as it at best didn't fix poverty and at worst, only increased it in addition to crime. Two, the idea that the War on Poverty began for moral reasons is also very questionable. Many would argue that it was primarily done by the Democratic party at the time to get the blacks to vote for them (as many of the Democrats at the time were racists). The so-called "war on poor people" that he refers to is probably in reference to things like welfare reform, only welfare reform actually had great success and reduced poverty.

And contrary to his assertion, we still cultivate great artists and the world's greatest economy.

reply

According to Pearson, the United States has a “cognitive skills and educational attainment” score of 0.39, which makes the United States rank fourteenth out of forty countries ranked in that category.
According to the Pew Global Attitudes Project, 33% of Americans are satisfied “with the way things are going” in their country. That makes
the United States rank nineteenth out of forty-four countries ranked in that category.
According to Bloomberg.com, the United States has the forty-fourth most efficient health care system out of fifty-one countries ranked in that category. (Efficiency includes life expectancy and health care costs per capita.)
According to the research firm IPSOS Mori, the United States ranks second out of fourteen countries in general ignorance about social statistics such as teen pregnancy, unemployment rates, and voting patterns.
According to the World Economic Forum’s 2014-15 Global Competitiveness Report, the United States has the third most competitive economy in the world. (The U.S. ranked fifth in 2013-14.) Switzerland has the most competitive economy.
According to the 2014 Global Peace Index prepared by the Institute for Economics and Peace, the United States has a peace index score of 2.137, which makes the United States rank one hundred and first out of one hundred sixty-two countries ranked in that category. The United States is ranked between Benin and Angola.
According to the Brookings Institution, in 2013 there were 710 Americans imprisoned for every 100,000 residents. This makes the United States rank first out of thirty-four OECD countries ranked in that category. (Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development)
According to the website Numbeo, the average cost of a MacDonald’s combo meal (or the equivalent at a different fast food chain) is $6.25,
which makes the United States rank sixtieth in terms of the expense of fast food out of one hundred twenty-five countries ranked in that
category.
According to the World Economic Forum’s Global Gender Gap Report for 2013, the United States ranks twenty-third in gender equality out of one hundred thirty six countries ranked in that category. The United States is sandwiched in between Burundi and Australia.
According to Reporters Without Borders, the United States has the forty-sixth freest press in the world (sandwiched between Romania and Haiti), a decline of thirteen spots from 2013. This decline was one of the biggest in the world.
According to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, there are an estimated 630,000 Americans who practice folk religions. That is enough to make the United States rank thirtieth out of more than two hundred countries ranked in that category.
According to UNICEF, the United States ranks twenty-sixth out of twenty-nine developed countries in terms of the overall well-being of children.
According to the Program for International Student Assessment, the average reading literacy score for U.S. fifteen-year old students is 498 (out of 1000 possible points). That is enough to make the United States rank twenty-fourth out of sixty-five educational systems ranked in that category.
According to Transparency International, in 2013 the United States has a Corruption Perception Index score of 73 out of possible 100 points,
with higher scores indicating greater perceived honesty and lower scores indicating greater perceived corruption. That is enough to make the
United States rank nineteenth out of one hundred seventy-seven ranked countries.
According to the OECD Better Life Index, Americans spend an average of 14.27 hours per day “on leisure and personal care, including
sleeping and eating.” That is enough to make the United States rank twenty-seventh out of thirty-six countries ranked in that category.
According to the Credit Suisse Global Wealth Report, 2013, there are 98,700 “ultra high net worth individuals” in the world, those with a net worth of at least USD 50 million. Forty six percent of those individuals (45,650) live in the United States. That is enough to make the United States rank first in that category.
According to the World Happiness Index, 2013, the United States has a “happiness index” score of 7.082, which is enough to make the United States rank seventeenth out of one hundred fifty-six countries ranked in that category.
According to HelpAge International, the United States has a Global Agewatch Index score of 83.8 (out of 100), which makes the United States rank eighth out of ninety-one countries ranked in that category.
According to Visions for Humanity, the United States has a Global Peace Index score of 2.126, which makes the United States rank ninety-ninth out of one hundred sixty-two countries ranked in that category.
According to the International Centre for Prison Studies, the United States has an estimate 716 prisoners per 100,000 population. That is
enough to make the United States rank first out of two hundred twenty-three countries ranked in that category.
According to the OECD, in 2012, the average American worker worked for 1789.9 hours, which is enough to make the United States rank eleventh out of thirty-seven countries ranked in that category. Mexico ranks first.
According to the Melbourne Mercer Global Pension Index, the United States ranks ninth out of eighteen countries ranked according to financial security in retirement.
According to the OECD “Better Life Index,” the United States ranks sixth in terms of overall quality of life among thirty-six industrialized democracies.
According to the United Nations Development Program, in 2010 public spending on health care amounted to 9.5% of GDP. This is enough to make the United States rank sixth out of one hundred eighty-eight countries ranked in that category.
According to the World Economic Forum, the United States has a gender equality score of 0.7373 (out of a possible 1.0000), which makes the United States rank twenty-second out of one hundred thirty five countries ranked in that category.
According to the Heritage Foundation’s 2013 Index of Economic Freedom, the United States has an economic freedom score of 76.0, which makes the United States rank tenth out of one hundred seventy-seven ranked countries.
According to the OECD, the U.S. federal minimum wage of $7.25 makes the United States rank tenth out of twenty-three OECD member nations in terms of the purchasing power of minimum wage.
According to the OECD, the U.S. federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour is enough to make the United States rank eleventh out of the twenty-four member nations of the OECD ranked in that category.
According to the World Bank, in 2011 the United States had GDP growth rate per capita of 1.0%, which is enough to make the United States tied for one hundred twenty-fifth in that category.
According to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, in 2010 the United States had a homicide rate of 4.8 per 100,000 people, enough to make the United States rank forty-third out of eighty-seven countries ranked in that category.
According to the report, The Learning Curve, developed by the Economist Intelligence Unit, the United States ranks seventeenth out of forty countries ranked in overall educational performance.
According to the World Bank, military expenditures in the United States equal 4.7% of GDP, which is enough to make the United States tied for sixth with Jordan in that category. Saudi Arabia ranks first with military expenditures at 8.4% of GDP.
According to the Legatum Institute, the United States ranks twelfth in prosperity, out of one hundred forty-two countries ranked in that category.
According to the World Bank, the central government debt of the United States was 76.8% of the country’s gross domestic product (GDP) in 2010, which makes the United States rank fourteenth out of sixty countries ranked in that category.
According to UNICEF, 23.1% of American children under the age of seventeen live in poverty, which makes the United States rank second out of thirty-five economically advanced countries ranked in that category.
According to the CIA World Factbook, in 2011 it is estimated that 6.06 infants die per 1,000 lives births in the United States, which makes the United States tied for forty-seventh with the Faroe Islands in that category.
According to the OECD in 2007, the United States had a teenage suicide rate of 7.7 out of every 100,000 people, which makes the United States rank fourteenth in that category.
According to the OECD in 2008 the U.S. ranks second out of 33 countries in out of pocket health expenses.
According to data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration, in 2009 the United States emitted 5,424.53 million metric tons of Carbon Dioxide from the consumption of energy, which is enough to make the United States rank second in that category. China ranks first.
According to the latest data available from CIA World Factbook, the United States has a public debt of 58.9% of the total GDP. This is
enough to make the United States rank thirty-sixth in that category.
According to the OECD, in 2009, the United States had a long-term unemployment rate of 16.3%. This is enough to make the United States rank twenty-third out of the thirty-four participating OECD countries in that category.
According to the National Academy of Sciences, in 2008 the United States had a death-by-violence rate of 6.47 per 100,000 people. That is enough to make the United States rank first out of seventeen “high-income democracies” ranked in that category.

reply

What's more interesting is how yanks are so easily brainwashed by their media, their politicians and by Hollywood into thinking their country is better than any other.

Guess what, it's not. That's what Sorkin was pointing out.

reply

I live in the UK and we have freedom. I don't know what you have been told but we can remain silent when arrested or reply to questions with "no comment" (it's only polite) and we can have gun, we have to have a license, pay a fee and be checked out by the local police, but after all we wouldn't want anyone being able to buy a firearm, that's not safe. Our press is self regulated. We do not have voter ID, we register to vote and do not have to provide ID when posting our ballot.

reply

I guess episode one is the only one you have seen, because "Fact checking" is a constant idea in this show and it doesn't seem to inspire this post.

Paragraph two is so full of nonsense that I could read no more. Please, do yourself a favor, inform yourself.

reply

Stopped reading after this

And in none of them does one have the right to keep and bear arms---to the extent one has a privilege to keep arms in them, they do not have the right to bear them at all (i.e. use them in self-defense). So all of those countries pretty much deny a person the most fundamental of all natural rights, their right to self-defense.


wow. america the stupid in a nutshell. what a huge pile of *beep*

reply

I will not even bother to read most of that tripe. I just needed to get through the first paragraph to know that you have no idea what you are talking about.

You do not have the free speech rights, privacy rights, press freedom (their governments regulate their media to ensure "fairness," which generally means that the media is all the same in opinion (i.e. unfair)), etc...in the likes of the U.K., France, Germany, Italy, etc...that you have in the United States.
In the free press index that ranks freedom of the press in the world the UK, France and Germany all rank ahead of the US:
https://index.rsf.org/#!/
It took me 15 seconds to find that one out.

Here's an idea: Fact check stuff before you write it.

reply

Okay, I'll be the guy who actually wastes his time rebutting this.

On the relative 'freedom' of countries: Maybe the USA has certain freedoms the named countries don't, though your claims are dubious, as others have noted. In any case, it goes both ways. Examples of freedoms they have that we don't: the freedom to drink in public (Japan and others), the freedom to do drugs (the Netherlands), the freedom to perform and solicit prostitution (many), the freedom to hike and camp through any land (many in northern Europe). I'm sure there are others, too.

On life expectancy: "...if you correct for car accidents and homicides." Well, gee, I guess any country can have the highest life expectancy if you don't factor in the things that are killing them! Your argument is seriously, "He's wrong if you change what he said to something that's wrong!"

On household income: And look, you actually used this incredibly poor argument again: "He says the U.S. is third in median household income. Again though, this isn't the statistic you use." Uh, it was the statistic he used. And you said he was "factually very wrong." So you're admitting these two aren't in fact "factually wrong" at all, and you're instead arguing that the content of the speech should have been something else. That is very different from calling it factually wrong. "Misleading" is the word you were looking for.

And then you make some other arguments that also do absolutely nothing to dispute the factuality of the claim.

On education: You've already "given him" this one, but your assertion that liberals are the ones he thinks should be in charge just goes to show that you don't know the character who is speaking.

On incarceration: "...I agree with him on per capita incarcerated, but that is primarily due to gang violence," No, it's due to the (systemically racist) war on drugs and the privatization of what is now the prison industry.

On defense spending: "On defense spending, yes, the U.S. does spend more than the other countries combined, but that is because those countries barely spend anything." Ah, so, once again, you are not living up to your assertion that he is "factually very wrong," since (yet again) you don't disagree with the presented fact.

On the character's nostalgia about the past: On this, you and I totally agree.

Of the actual statistical/falsifiable assertions he makes, you literally did not dispute a single one on a statistical/factual basis, so your claim that he is "factually very wrong" is completely hollow, and your post is a mere excuse for you to state your opinions and indignant feelings about the facts presented. And hey, I'm not gonna tell you you shouldn't - feel free! But don't pretend there is a cold, hard, factual basis upon which you're arguing, because there isn't.

reply

Thanks, man. Took a bullet for us.

Jesus, what a load!!

"What else do you like? Lazy? Ugly? Horny? I got 'em all."
"You don't look lazy."

reply

+2 pounds beef stew meat, cut into 1 inch cubes



+1/4 cup all-purpose flour
+1/2 teaspoon salt
+1/2 teaspoon ground black pepper
+1 clove garlic, minced
+1 bay leaf
+1 teaspoon paprika
+1 teaspoon Worcestershire sauce
+1 onion, chopped


+1 1/2 cups beef broth
+3 potatoes, diced
+4 carrots, sliced
+1 stalk celery, chopped
+Add all ingredients to list

Directions

Prep
20 m

Cook
12 h

Ready In
12 h 20 m
1
Place meat in slow cooker. In a small bowl mix together the flour, salt, and pepper; pour over meat, and stir to coat meat with flour mixture. Stir in the garlic, bay leaf, paprika, Worcestershire sauce, onion, beef broth, potatoes, carrots, and celery.

2
Cover, and cook on Low setting for 10 to 12 hours, or on High setting for 4 to 6 hours.






~~~"Who do you think you're dealing with? Guess again."~~~

reply

Sorry. Nobody's right to not get killed by a gun-toting lunatic should be outweighed by anyone's right to bear arms. Especially when the right to bear arms is based on a badly abused and outdated amendment to the constitution.

Rylant

reply

I'm almost positive my post had nothing to do with that.

~~~"Who do you think you're dealing with? Guess again."~~~

reply

I'm absolutely positive that you are correct!



reply