She was having sex for money and deriving pleasure from it....so what the hell else do you call it?
No way are you going to convince me that sitting on a man's face and asking him if he'd like to suck her nipples is therapy!
I'm definitely not trying to be argumentative, but...I sincerely doubt that prostitutes derive any pleasure at all from the sex they have "on the job." It's not like men pick up a hooker on the street and drive around the corner so they can make sweet love to the woman and make sure she gets her pleasure.
Having said that, I do feel that the difference between a high-priced call girl and a sex surrogate is an awfully subtle one.
Two of the activities of a sex surrogate are the same as for an escort (having sex and getting money), but there is a lot more going on and with completely different motivation. A sex surrogate is a hybrid of a therapist and a person willing to do the physical activities that may help the suffering person.
Think of the motivation itself. The escort doesn't care at all about the client, and is probably pretty put off by the whole transaction. The surrogate has a goal of helping the client with specific problems.
I think the film, for Helen's character's sake, would have benefited from showing more frequent and more in depth scenes of her transcribing her observations of Mark's progress. That would have given more convincing evidence of the therapist role.
If anything, I think Helen Hunt's character showed that a surrogate is closer to a false promise of love than they are to a prostitute. I have to imagine many clients fall for their surrogate, or have trouble realizing the difference between the surrogate's care for them as a client and romantic interest.
So it is truly therapy? Think of how Mark's character did while trying to make progress with the surrogate. He was horribly conflicted (he associated pleasure with humiliation because he had only ever climaxed in embarrassing situations with health aids) and stressed, along with being unable to contain his excitement. And then think of how much more well adjusted and confident he was when flirting with Susan later. I think the therapy did him great good. Could traditional therapy have helped him accomplish this? Perhaps, but it appears that sex surrogate therapy did achieve it, so I'd say it was therapeutic.
Looking at things from Mark's perspective, I completely agree with you, smares1. I see the therapeutic benefit that he gained from those sessions, and I understand why he would have wanted to do this. And I can see how HE (probably) could see the difference between the sex surrogate and a hooker. But when I try to put myself into Cheryl's mindset, that's where I struggle. I'm a psychologist myself, so I do understand the therapeutic aspect of the work, and I can see why she would want to help Mark deal with these issues. But I can't see myself wanting to have SEX with my clients in order to help them, without any emotional intimacy developing, and in exchange for money. I can't help thinking about the practical issues: the impact it would have on my personal relationships, the way it would cheapen the act of sex in my own life, worry about pregnancy and disease (even though Mark is certainly at low risk for having an STI or HIV, still you never know and they never discussed using protection or even getting tested first--not to mention that if she's doing this with hundreds of other clients, she could be giving HIM a disease), and the list goes on. That's why I say that the difference between a hooker and a sex surrogate is so subtle, for me. I often work with children who have inadequate (or even abusive) parents...but my solution is not to move them into my home so I can parent them myself. Same thing for people with sexual issues.
However, I must say I respect those professionals who are willing to do this work. Obviously it has its benefits in some cases.
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I think the therapy did him great good.So do I. The film charts his metamorphosis from embittered cynic to a man clearly far more comfortable with his own self-image and physical being. I kind of doubt whether a more orthodox means of therapy would have achieved the same degree of success. share
You're right. We won't convince you. Because you've already made up your mind.
You are immune to new knowledge and learning anything new about real life that doesn't fit into the narrow recesses of your emaciated little brain.
There are people who quite obviously come to these forums to be blowhards and spew their hatreds and ignorance - and they are IMMUNE to facts and information and learning anything new.
I think you likely are that type of person.
So the people who used their valuable time to try to answer your question hopefully taught other people reading this thread something valuable.
And I'll bet you are probably some self-righteous holier than thou Christian or catholic who thinks women who work as prostitutes are scum and somehow less than human.
As sort of a tangent - most serial killers of prostitutes share that sort of world-view.
... What - was I too harsh?
Too harsh? Well..... I'll put it to you this way....I've seldom met an ignorant fool who was capable of being subtle! I do laugh whenever someone accuses me of ignorance while they insult me (undeservedly) in every sentence..... which, ironically, is the epitome of ignorance!!
Not only was I asking a serious question concerning the subject matter of this particular movie, but you didn't get one thing about me correct.
I didn't ask the question in a flippant manner, nor did I insult Helen Hunt's character in any form or fashion.
I happen to be an atheist who has a great deal of compassion for women forced into and enslaved by prostitution, and I applaud anyone who could give over their bodies so intimately to try and help others, I just think it's junk science.
I believe that these women are in fact legit therapists, my mind is made up (as is my right) because a sex act, with no chance of a relationship, to a person already experiencing emotional issues, that require therapy in the first place, will ultimately do more harm than good to the patient.
Hope I used enough small words so that even YOU could understand where I'm coming from.
Glad to hear you are smart enough to be an atheist.
I disagree with your penultimate sentence.
I think that the sex acts she performed, are, in fact, therapeutic 'relationships.' And they are simpler because there are clear boundaries about what the goals are to accomplish, and then the relationship is done after a set number of visits. This is clear and honest and prevents unrealistic attachments and hopes that they could become lovers.
And were I REALLY disagree with you is you seem to have this assumption that almost all psychiatrists or psychologists or therapists of any type have fixed all their 'issues' before they have become therapists. This is SO WRONG.
And - in fact - if you learn much about therapists, you will discover they may be MORE psychologically messed up than the average person - and the reason many go into the study of psychology to begin with is in an attempt to understand their own disturbed childhoods.
So I strongly disagree that a therapist who is still working on some of their own issues will AUTOMATICALLY harm a 'patient' (or client.)
And let me say that I come at this from working as a therapist for several years at a sex education center. And the other counsellors were the GREATEST group of people to be able to spend time with.
I think I could see myself doing work somewhat similar to that done in this movie - YEARS AGO - but now I'm just too burned out and bored with sex.
But, if it doesn't sound too much like bragging, I've shown a few partners over the years a few things that they've never experienced from any other person before me - and hopefully they will be able to add to future relationships. (It wasn't until I had been with 20 partners that I even really began to be comfortable just BEING with another person and not trying to rush to a specific goal (intercourse).
"And were I REALLY disagree with you is you seem to have this assumption that almost all psychiatrists or psychologists or therapists of any type have fixed all their 'issues' before they have become therapists. This is SO WRONG."
"And - in fact - if you learn much about therapists, you will discover they may be MORE psychologically messed up than the average person - and the reason many go into the study of psychology to begin with is in an attempt to understand their own disturbed childhoods. "
"So I strongly disagree that a therapist who is still working on some of their own issues will AUTOMATICALLY harm a 'patient' (or client.)"
All of your above quotes HAD to be meant for someone else because I didn't say or imply ANYTHING even close to what you state above!
I said what I meant very clearly!
My brother is a bi polar/schizophrenic who resides in a Psychiatric hospital so you don't have to tell me how screwed up therapists and psychiatrists are.
You're preaching to the choir, because I've dealt with doctors over the course of the four decades my brother has been sick, that needed psychiatric help themselves!
As for the "clear cut boundaries" that are supposedly established before this therapy begins, it's hard to take that seriously when she's asking him if he'd like for her to sit on his face or when she asks him "would you like to go back to sucking my nipples?" WHAT BOUNDARIES??? Hell...neither my ex wife nor any of my past girlfriends were up to trying every sex act in the book. This woman was open to any and everything!!
How are you supposed to maintain a level of professional distance, when a therapist is naked, spread eagle and the patient has his tongue in her glory hole??? It's ludicrous!!
Boy - it's good for you schizophrenia and bi-polar disease don't run in families. Think of how screwed up you might be then.
shareLook here. I watched most of this movie last night and really enjoyed it because it's a HUMAN film. I disagree, I do NOT think she was a "hooker" at all. First of all, I've never heard of an actual "sex surrogate", but it makes absolute sense that someone like that would exist in the world. I am taking a human sexuality course in college right now, completely unrelated to my job in the IT world.
You see, I like the subject, I think too many people shun or shy up about sex. You have to think, this guy needed it. 36 years old, most likely not going to live for too much longer with his disease. And he never had a legitimate orgasm ever. He never got to experiment with his sexuality ever. He never got to even masturbate to have a release. You would be lying to yourself if you said you don't do it on occasion or have ever done it. And how would you like to feel not ever having control over your body the rest of your life? And being a guy not being able to control your desires? People need sex, it's part of humanity. And most women will never fall in love with someone in his state. He needed someone who could do the deed for him so he could it experience it at least once in his life.
They started their sessions off, it was all about him. He got to touch and feel a women for the first time. Everything they did together she asked him or he asked her. He explicitly asked her if they could try a "simultaneous orgasm" because it's part of him exploring their sexuality. It had nothing to do with her being a hooker or "wanting it". Is it difficult to connect on that level without emotional attachment? Maybe so. But that was her job to be his partner throughout.
This movie was a real story, the guy Mark or whatever his name was, he was a real poet that lived to be 50 years old before passing away in 1999. The sex surrogate was real, the stories were real. You need to look at this as a real human movie. She wasn't a hooker, she was trying to help this guy that never experience something in his life.
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For a person who works in the IT field (or any field for that matter), you have a beautiful grasp on human sexuality. That isn't just because you're taking a class....you naturally just get it, the class is just a bonus that will give you extra knowledge. Sexual surrogates are legal and provided in parts of Europe. It's too bad the US is so hung up.
Prostitution should be legalized period. Hooker. Whore. Surrogate. Legalize it all!
Not a hooker because she was not dressed slutty standing on a street corner soliciting sex. But she gets paid for sex so she was technically a whore.
Mustang Mama
H'uh, h'uh
Guess you better slow
Your Mustang down
Not quite OP and Mustang_Mama13:
One very significant 'boundary' that Cheryl stated upfront (and enfored) that prostitutes/hookers don't (and it confirms what other posters have written on this thread) was that she would only engage in ten sessions (and that's extremely relevant, because a prostitute does everything and anything to keep a client coming back for more). But, since she was a sex therapist, it wasn't about her needs - it was ALL about his [needs] (though because she was only human, there was some countertransference that came about, which often occurs in 'regular' therapist/client relationships, as well). So in order to safeguard against HIS getting too attached and having fantasies about them ending up together, and keeping it a therapeutic relationship, she limited her number of sessions to ten, with any given client.
Now, does that seem realistic to you, that a prostitute would turn away a reliable "John" (as in payment for services rendered), unless he was some sort of sociopath or otherwise dangerous person?? I think the answer is an overwhelming "NO."
You know??
LOVE LOVE LOVE your grasp on the difference.
shareOne very significant 'boundary' that Cheryl stated upfront (and enfored) that prostitutes/hookers don't (and it confirms what other posters have written on this thread) was that she would only engage in ten sessions...I agree with the contents of your post. One small point is that the agreement was only for 6 sessions and she bailed after 4, which further adds weight I think to the point you make regarding "unhookerlike" behaviour. share
Come on. This just shows peoples hang up with sex. Would you also ask "What is the difference between a boxer and a street thug? They both beat people up and take pleasure in it. Therefor boxing is the same as aggravated assault".
sharelmao because you really think hookers are having pleasure?
Amazingly you missed the point of the movie. Color me shocked.
For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco
I didn't see her as a hooker. The nearest distinction I can make is the difference between a teacher and just some guy you bought a paper from. Both get paid; however, the teacher is there to make you a better person. They want you to learn something from the experience or overcome a difficulty. The random guy you bought a paper from just wants to give you the end result and earn some cash.
I can definitely see the need for a sexual surrogate. There are lots of sexual dysfunctions in the world which people are so hesitant to discuss, much less work out with a romantic interest. And those romantic interests aren't guaranteed to know how (or be patient enough) to deal with these issues. I mean, can you imagine how scarred this poor guy would have been had he just hooked up with a prostitute? Someone who would probably be grateful for his premature ejaculatory problems and sensory overload.
In my eyes, I see huge differences. Rape victims. Victims of molestation. Physical limitations/disabilities. These people can't be helped with an hour romp fest with some Cat House bimbo or a gigolo, but I can see how a sexual surrogate (not rushed, not thinking about their next client, actually caring about the emotional well-being of their patient and having some sort of training to effectively deal with any emotional fall-out during the session) would.