MovieChat Forums > Blade Runner 2049 (2017) Discussion > The opposite of typical Hollywood assemb...

The opposite of typical Hollywood assemblyline junk--this movie is ART (Spoilers)


The people who dismiss this movie as being fluff, or a "video game", or unimaginative, or lacking in the kind of "plot" that will hold their attention for 3 hours....just aren't getting it.

This movie uses all the best artful elements a true cinematic experience can give you. The use of sound and visuals ALONE: beautiful. Haunting....hypnotic....visceral. It sets the tone for what will be a visually and emotionally moving EXPERIENCE. If you wait to watch it in your basement...you miss out on something rare and special you rarely get from going to the movies these days.

The story? It's complicated and textured...with lots of implications, moral questions about humanity....and on an emotional level, some very touching narratives of love.

SPOILER ALERT: One of my favorite scenes was when K's police captain asks him why he sees any value in being born vs. being made...and he said being born means you have a soul. K leads an empty life....he's treated like he's meaningless, and worthless. When he discovers he may in fact have been..."born", it gives him a hope in his heart that there may actually be some meaning to his life--and perhaps the memories he has inside are his own, and not just hollow implants. His pursuit is beautiful...ironic....tragic...and for us: compelling.

This movie does not rely on action to move things along quickly and keep the mouth-breathers who need ridiculous, Fast & the Furious" action sequences in order to be able to sit still for 3 straight hours. No, this movie is a visual and emotional "experience". The intricate story is a pleasant bonus. A modern noir....an exploration. It keeps us thinking....it keeps us FEELING.

Of all the interesting characters, I love the irony that....K's hologram girlfriend probably has the most humanity and soul of anyone in K's world. And the scene where she's destroyed....where she makes a desperate effort to live, is heartbreaking. Her final words...an expression of love: from a hologram to a replicant.

What is the meaning of life...humanity....love? What does it truly mean to have a soul....and can that be manufactured, or must you be "born" with one? The way these questions and themes play out in this movie will stay with you a while. I will be seeing it in the theater again....because it's a true experience you just don't get from a movie much anymore.

Blade Runner has a soul. But if you're a hollow person who just wants to shut your mind off and watch brainless, heartless action and fluff for 90 minutes.....maybe Fast N' Furious is more your bag. Beauty and art are not for everyone....

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"Just aren't getting it" is an unfair opinion, and I would say completely wrong. The pretty colors are nice, but no better than video games (have you played the latest in 4K? I do), teh music kinda fits but is not near as good or memorable as the movie it is the sequel of.

The story (to me) was obvious, simple, with just minor hints at humanity. They TOLD US it was oh, so important, but didn't make us feel it. SHOWING us would have made this epic, but they simple TELL US and expect that is all that is needed. "This breaks the world." No it doesn't. This world barely cares about replicants, who made them, who they are and why. Seriously. I think only wallace and the police lady tried to pretend to care about it. But, it was an ineffectual plot TO ME. If you enjoyed it, that's great for you.

I witnessed very little soul in this new version of blade runner. Especially compared to the original it was supposed to be a sequel to.

When talking the idiots that go to movies.... let's look at that. MOST of the top 10 movies for the last decade have been FILLED with CGI. Keeping in mind, CGI seems to effect movie success, regardless of quality of story, where does that put Blade Runner 2049? Firmly in the middle of: CGI Fest should recoup its money and make the masses happy.... those same masses that support CGI driven Fast and Furious and Avengers and ALL the CGI stuff.

Pace of BR2049 never bothered me. In fact, I did not even notice that part at all. What bothered me is the un-importance of the plot, and how forgettable it was.

What happened to Wallace? Nothing.
Room full of slave kids? We don't know, nothing I guess.
Did the world break? Nope
Did we "got a war"? Nope
Did Deckard really make much difference in anything? none
Character arcs? What's that? I guess K went from Replicant to dead replicant, maybe that is an arc. :D

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Fair points--opinions vary.
You mention the "unimportance of the plot". The initial plot is......a new emergence of corporate mass production of replicants....a risk that those replicants will become not just self-aware (they already are)....but also self-SERVING. They're more intelligent than humans...and they're stronger. If we (humans) can't control their quantities.....memories....behavior, etc. If we can't "police" those things, the replicants can turn on humans, and "break the world", if they choose to. Fair or not? That is just one of the questions posed in the movie: What does it mean to be human, and what rights are our "birthright"?

You can see just with the police protocols alone (daily "baseline testing"), that there's a real paranoia about losing control of replicants. We also see (toward the end of the film)...that there is INDEED a replicant uprising in the works. That is just one part of this layered plot. There's also the story of K wanting to find his humanity. (This may not be compelling to you, but it is for many). There's also the storyline of....whatever happened to Deckard and Rachel? We discover they had a child, and this is revealing on many levels, and has huge implications.
What happened to Wallace? While we don't need to be spoonfed with every single character having a conclusion spelled out for us....I think it's safe to say Wallace's story arc is still in motion (cough-cough, "another sequel in the works", cough-cough). The room full of slave kids? We don't need to know what became of them. All we need to know is....that ispart of what the world has become. And, that is where K (or Deckard's daughter) came from (per the memory K had, which he had always assumed was a fake implant). Did the world break? We don't need to actually witness the collapse of humankind to understand why the worry of the threat of that happening. Just as 4 replicants were a threat in the first movie....mass quantities of rebelling replicants (who can reproduce)? Much worse.

And amdist all of this, there is a subtle and poignant love story--a connection. K's hologram comes across as the most "human" of all the characters in his life. Did she have a "soul"? What does it mean to have a soul. She loved him, and he loved her. Poignant irony....tragic and bittersweet. Because neither of them were "real". Or....what really DEFINES being real? I think, therefore I am. I think.....(and feel) therefore I am.

If none of things compell you, or move you....at least enjoy the stunning feast for the senses. The music...the sounds....the visuals...the nuances....the cinematography. Knocking CGI for the very principal of it never made sense to me. When it's done unnecessarily, or poorly, ok. But for Blade Runner, it was 100% necessary....in order to recreate (and evolve) the world R.Scott created in the original movie.

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If the whole thing is another "sequel-itis", it would make a lot more sense. If just felt like things were not fleshed out for a COMPLETE movie. ...which they weren't if they CONTINUE it. WHICH I HATE!!! I paid to see a FULL MOVIE, not a "PART" of a movie.

I WISHED they'd fleshed out K humanity hunt more... I WISHED they'd connected us with his relationship with his AI more. I WISHED they'd shown us how important it could be ---- instead of leaving that for PART II. If they'd COMPLETED THIS movie, I would have loved it a lot. They didn't and it was very unsatifactory.

Yes, CGI is needed for much sci-fi these days (even though, somehow they pulled it off just as good in 1982 without it) but cutting some of it down, shot length-wise, could have tightened the plot and made it seem more important and timely.

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i agree with you that using 2049 to set up another sequel weakens it...

the original (final cut) wasn't like that even though it left the ending ambigious...

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Whether or not there's a continuation of the story, we don't need to be spoon-fed with every character's arc wrapped up in a nice conclusion bow. What happened to Wallace? Use your imagination. We don't necessarily need to know. But the ambiguity leaves space for more story. A continuation of the mythology. I think its a more....."intellectual" approach, when the writers don't wrap every character's story up with a nice, neat ending. This movie works fine as a stand-alone....but it works best for those who have a love for the original. A love for the pacing, the visuals, the feel and sound, the atmosphere and the characters. The story and plot are a lot bigger and more textured than many people are realizing. And it's a story that begs for a continuation. I loved that it worked well as a stand-alone. I liked even more...that it worked well as a second act. And I REALLY like that it left things open for more to be told.
Just my humble opinion.

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i agree with you about leaving things open, with room for interpretation and ambiguity, especially in a film of ideas and mood, which 2049 certainly is...

However, I do think that a further sequel runs the risk of devolving into dreaded "world building", with background filler, questions answered and everything expanded in an almost archivist record cataloguing way... Basically that Blade Runner is turned into the Matrix Trilogy with too many answers and expanded plot, or worse, it is subjected into the ultra nerdy world building of Star Wars, Ring Lord/Hobbit movies or Games of Thrones...

That would be most in-elegant and would rob 2049 and the original Blade Runner of much of their meaning and piognancy... I'd rather they left things unsaid, stories untold...

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Excellent points! Especially regarding the world-building. In an effort to "milk" an idea or fantasy to death, under the pretenses that more is more and the audience will eat it up, it can just kill the mystique of an otherwise unique story and experience...and turn it into another McMovie franchise. The more I think about it, the more I really agree with you. As GREAT as both Blade Runner movie "experiences" were....sometimes they just need to leave a great thing alone, and not tarnish it with a string of sequels.

Along with your fine examples, look how badly things like Godfather III tainted the franchise. Or how about (gulp), Jaws: The Revenge.

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I thought I had successfully forgotten Godfather III... Thanks for reminding me!

Haha ;)

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"A love for the pacing"

I found the pacing in 2049...just off...it takes ages to get going, and when it does it pretty much fizzles out.

"the visuals, the feel and sound, the atmosphere"

Mainly lifted from the original. Other than that, mostly uninspired...apart from the Las Vegas exterior scenes.

"and the characters"

What characters? Look at the original. It's bursting with interesting characters. What characters are interesting or colourful in this? It was just boring interchangeable woman after boring interchangeable woman apart from Wallace, who just rattled off some weak written-down-for-him-sounding philosophy and then disappeared. The female statues in Las Vegas were more intriguing than any characters in this whole film. Even Gaff, a character from the original, somehow managed to be boring as hell when inserted into this version.

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the plot isn't the point of 2049... i'd go as far as to say it's incidental to the experience and to what the director, no, the artist wants to communicate to us... ;)

The bare and simple plot is just there to set up the existential questions that the movie poses, the sparse but appropriate visual style and the slow cuts and transitions from scenes are there to give us breathing room to reflect on these concepts without the distraction of plot and the clutter of spectacle... the point is to minimise the plot so it is not a focus of the movie...

This is key to the non-video game aesthetic of 2049... as a viewer you are not in control, you observe... incident and action only matter to the extent they give us a new perspective to think about... even the score follows this; apart from the final shot the score is mostly just ambient noise... the movie doesn't tell you how to feel, rather it invites you to think about it's themes and the situations it portrays...

For example you will find people have very different thoughts about how K relates to the Joi app. There are viewers who have basically considered her as sentient and see their "relationship" as love, which is tragicly ended... others will find the way K uses the joi app as a surrogate for real connection very hollow and sad and while we may feel sympathy for K when he comes to that painful realisation on the bridge when he sees the giant pink interactive Joi hologram,it also feels cathartic as it is one less barrier for K to break down in order to embrace his latent humanity. The director is inviting us to bring something to the movie and engage with it in a cerebral and emotional way... If we are unwillling or not interested/compelled to do so, then the movie will fall flat and seem tedious, as can be seen by the numerous walk-outs on both screenings that I've been to. 20 people left during the first screening on opening weekemd and 6 during the second screening a week later.

if it didn't work for you, that's OK.

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and don't get me started on the TRAILER. it dissolves under its own pretentiousness.

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abiggerboat:

You're right---I just saw BLADE RUNNER:2049 today, and yes, it is definitely a work of art with some soul---what I liked about it was that it concentrated on the human aspect/characters in the story, as opposed to just the usual sci-fi trappings and gadgets. It's basically a big epic about big issues that affect people on a small scale, so to speak. And yes, the film looked great---I liked how even the sparse parts of the film were nearly stunning to look at---like the shot of Joe after he's caught the replicant and walked outside to get in his vehicle---it's all foggy and stark, but still beautiful in its isolation/desolation. The shots where Joe walks though the abandoned hotel where he's searching for Deckard---in an ordinary,but beautiful brown color (the color of the wood) are wonderful to look at, and the vistas of the city as seen from the air as Joe is flying around in his flying vehicle, are straight-up stunning/awesome to look at, frankly. Basically, the whole movie had a European look and feel to it---as opposite of your typical Hollywood sci-fi flick as you can get. That's why I liked it, and it's really too bad that audiences aren't getting with it----but I can see how its somber mood, look and feel wouldn't be to everyone's taste. But,yeah, it's pretty much everything you said, and more. To me, the theme of the film, while it's not directly spelled out, is asking what it means to be human, what the definition of human is,and what that means to someone like Joe who wants to know what it is to be human, so that he can feel fulfilled within himself, and not like a piece of disposable garbage. I really liked it (saw the original years and years ago on a VHS tape in a high school film class, and had mixed feelings about it. I wouldn't mind seeing it again after seeing the sequel, that's for sure.) And, yes the film also has that classic film noir look I love,too. I'd recommend this to anyone who likes everything I mentioned (and you mentioned) about it.

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its pretty obvious OP has not seen many movies, so he assumes this pile of hollywood plastic is art, very common these days.

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kinda how I see it also. but, it IS impossible for a global discussion hive of unlike-minded people to all see things the same way. I get that. I'm just as puzzled anyone can see this as a masterpeice, as much as they are oppositely puzzled that I can't. And that's fine. :)

NORMALLY, you discuss it with your local friends face to face... discover opposing views... rib each other for a while over it, end it with, "Aw, yer an idiot", laugh, slap each others' backs, and move on to better things.
Where the NET lets you drag out opinions that NEVER end, to strangers that don't care and never wanted to hear it in the first place. :) God bless the misinformation superhighway. :D

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I agree, everyone has a different interpretation of art. But for someone to just blanketly dismiss a movie like this as "Hollywood plastic", with no points to substantiate it? Well, that's just a sophomoric comment, isn't it? At least attempt to make a few points and present a few examples to back up your point of view. Otherwise, the opinion lacks any credibility. It's like it was written by a kid just looking to troll.

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very true. I wasn't tracking with all these dialogs. However, if that is how HE/SHE sees it, that is what it is to them.

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i don't need to count all the possible flaws of this movie for you, because you already discredited yourself in the original post you made by stating "people who dont like this movie didn't get it", this already makes you look extremely simple minded. then don't be surprised if i call you out on that.

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LOL...einstein. You are your own worst enemy. Keep typing, man. You can't get out of your own way. And it's guys like you that killed IMDB. Nothing substantive at all to say....just complaints and negativity. Quite a life you've carved out for yourself.

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I dunno man, you DID say everyone else didn't get it. :) I got all of it completely and easily on the first try and have pointed out how they failed to SHOW, but just TELL us stuff. I didn't NOT get it, it just did very little comparatively to better films I've seen. And we are not alone in this opinion. Doesn't make either of us right or wrong, just differing tastes.

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I have to agree with gjb2074 here, you did say "we didn't get it",and i think both gjb and me got it the first time. I am aware that im wasting my my time with this discussion, but it is actually people like you with VERY low expectations, and might i add low IQs that ruin movies, because you guys have no standards. Sorry man.

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I enjoyed the film, but it was no-where near as good as the original - not even close imo.

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It's interesting how opinions vary on this movie. For me, I liked the sequel better than the original. It had a much longer running time, and yet the first one is the one that really seems to drag for me. Not much really happens in the original, there are long dry spells, and the plot doesn't require much thinking. However, the final scene with Roy Batty's speech: perfection.

With the sequel, there were some extremely gratifying little grace notes along the way. Sinatra's "Summer Wind" playing in the background of K's apartment. Heck, the Sinatra hologram, emanating from a retro jukebox, in an abandoned Vegas casino. The sepia hues and barren landscapes. The bizarre, gigantic nude statues in the wasteland. The use of winter snows and water. The Treasure Island quote. The scene with Joi once the eminator allows her to walk outside in the rain and "experience" a taste of living. And really.....ANY scene with Joi was mesmorizing, like the "sharing" love scene. And the most heartbreaking, when she made a plea to be spared, and lunged at K to try and embrace him as her last words were to tell him she loved him.

The cool, fearless calm K had in the face of Bautista in the opening scene. The cold, empty loneliness of K's apartment.
The irony that Deckard's daughter (the very "birthed" replicant Wallace had been seeking) was a distant employee of his the whole time. The sad irony that Joi was a hologram, and yet had more soul and love than any "human" in K's life. The poignant and ultimately tragic hope K had that perhaps he indeed was born, and therefore had a soul....and the memories he had were real afterall. And his slow shutting down on the steps, as the snow fell on his blank, yet soulful stare into the graying sky.

It was just a really, really cool and poignant cinematic "experience". I'd think I was the oddball in thinking of this movie in this fashion, but enough other people had the same reaction to kinda validate. Some people just really kinda "got it". But it's definitely not for everyone.

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"I enjoyed the film, but it was no-where near as good as the original - not even close imo."

That's how I feel, too. I can't rate it a 10, because the original BR was a 10 and to give BR2049 the same rating wouldn't be right.

But I'm still not sure exactly how much I did like the film--I've just seen it once so far and I know I will rate it somewhere in the 7 to 9 range. I want to reserve my final opinion until I see it a second time.

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The original BR had the enormous advantage of being first (obviously). We'd never seen anything like it before. So it created a hypnotic and fascinating new world. Plus, if you're like me...you saw it at a young and impressionable age, so it really just had an extra impact on you--and it stayed with you.

Whereas the sequel....had the built-in disadvantage of coming second, after we've already seen the cinematic magic of the first. The bar is high and expectations have been set. There's practically nowhere a second movie could go but down--when compared to the original. That all said....

I was pleasantly surprised with just how well they did with the sequel. It had just enough little touches, little grace notes, to really move me. And it's funny....mt FIRST impression, upon walking out of the theater was: It was really good (albeit long), with moments of brilliance. But after I had 24 hours to really let it sink in--the movie stayed with me. A day later, I wanted to make plans to see it again--to have that cinematic "experience" a second time (this time in 3-D IMAX). There are VERY few movies these days I'd make an effort to go and see (and PAY) to see a second time. This is definitely one of them.

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and yet it looks like every other hollywood movie out there.

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So all hollywood movies look the same?

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yes, all of them have horrific digital color grading and are all orange and teal, this one included, so.

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