Everything was wrapped up, in a pretty neat bow. They could end the show now, and it wouldn't feel awkward or incomplete.
shareA big but im certain this is gonna be the last Season so last Christmas show . I bet nick and Jess end up together though.
shareEnd Nick/Jess on that fight and have it end with Nick/Reagan and Jess/Robby? No thanks.
Admittedly the show has been spinning its wheels since the season premiere though. Hopefully the narrative will move forward once NG returns from hiatus in January.
Nick & Jess are OVER, deal with it.
shareI wouldn't mind an ambiguous ending on Nick/Jess. The writers haven't done nearly enough work on Nick and Jess separately to make a reunion feel earned and we're halfway through the season as it is. They want to start the relationship stuff again when they haven't really been friends for about 2 seasons despite living together. I'd personally rather see them rebuild their friendship this season than go to the cliche well of the love triangle. The writers are still gunshy about letting them even share scenes together, like they feel if they do share scenes together it has to be romantic. Lame.
If this is the last season, I wish it was just the core group though. Reagan and Robby still feel like outsiders. I feel like it was a season too late to start Nick/Jess again, especially since they haven't done anything interesting with it. Feels like they're scraping the bottom of the barrel on storylines now. The Nick/Reagan and Jess/Robby stuff are seriously dragging down the show, killing it worse than Nick/Jess ever did in S3 (look at the ratings).
I'd rather see more Winston A-stories and all the Winston/Cece friendship stuff this season has been really great. I actually consider "James Wonder" to be the best episode of S6 so far and it was because there was no tired will-they-won't-they Nick/Jess stuff in it. I like Nick/Jess but I just don't think the writers are able to pull off anything interesting with it anymore. It's a lot of hurry up and wait. Kills any momentum they can build up in that storyline and just takes time away from more interesting storylines they could be exploring.
I like Reagan for Nick. I couldn't care less about Jess's love life, at this point. So I'm fine with the show ending, on this note.
As for Jess & Nick sucking the life of the show. Of course they do. Which is why they broke up, one season after they started dating.
I liked the potential of the Reagan character, but I just don't think Nick and Reagan have any chemistry together. I don't even know how she "fell in love with" this guy, especially not the way he was in S5 (the creepy guy that smells her hair and can't even hold a conversation with her). They look so awkward standing next to each other like Nick is dating his cousin or something. Reagan has more chemistry with everyone else except Nick.
Yes, Jess's love life is a continual weak point on the show. Not sure what happened after she broke up with Nick, but they just weren't able to write her any good love interests after that. I liked Russell and Sam the first time but Ryan and Sam the second time just felt off. Ryan was so dull and Sam the second time was so serious, didn't add anything to the show at all. And I'm not sure who thought it was a good idea to make Robby her love interest. I love Robby as a side character but Jess/Robby together doesn't work at all. They should have ended this trainwreck by now.
The writers are better at writing Nick and Jess as friends like they were in S1/S2 but they've never gone back to that dynamic after Nick and Jess broke up. They're just in this weird space where they live together but never interact. I wish the writers just let them be actual friends again, even if they never are a couple again. People seem to conveniently forget how large the Nick/Jess dynamic was part of the show back in S1/S2, even without the romantic angle. Taking it out of the show changed the dynamic of the show and I can't say it was for the better.
I don't know why the writers have so much trouble writing Nick and Jess as a couple, but they do, even though they're doing fine with Schmidt/Cece and Winston/Aly. If that's the way it's going to be, they definitely shouldn't write Nick/Jess as a couple at all, but it's killing the show whether they are or are not together since the writers aren't addressing their dynamic effectively.
True. I don't think Reagan & Nick, look good together, but they work. That's the kind of pairing, where you don't need to explain anything. It just is, and it's fine by me.
shareThey work because Reagan is never there, I guess. The show is dull when Nick just has a relationship with his phone where we never even hear or see Megan Fox. And then every few episodes we get mopey Nick who is upset that Reagan is never there. Pass. Sidenote: How did Jake Johnson become 3rd string on this show? Max Greenfield and Lamorne Morris are blowing him out of the water this season. The writers need to step up the writing for Nick. They've basically held him in stasis for half a season. Nick hasn't been really interesting since S2, but I guess they didn't have any ideas on what to do with him after his arc and Nick/Jess as a couple got such negative reviews.
They should just have had Nick focus on his book this season. I'm over the flavor-of-the-month love interests. I think everyone can see that we're heading for a Nick/Jess reunion but the stakes feel so low that it isn't interesting.
Maybe that's the answer. A long distance relationship for Nick, as he usually was REALLY annoying in his "normal" relationships.
Jake Johnson's magic is gone, for me. It's like Matthew Perry, all over again. He's used to play the same character, in each and everything he did, since he's in NG, that I'm fine with him being on the side.
LOL, I completely forgot about this ridiculous book idea. No, Nick isn't the guy you see writting a book. He's fine at being the owner of the gang's bar.
I fear they fanservice the thing and have Jess & Nick again, when it was clearly stated, they're better off as friends.
Nick's only great at the big romantic gestures, I guess, not being an actual boyfriend.
I still like Jake Johnson. Playing the same character in every role isn't necessarily a bad thing. He's the everyman but the writing has to be there or he just kind of disappears in the role. Nick is best when he's angry or has some internal struggle. Jake Johnson can sell that kind of earnestness better than most anyone else. He definitely deserved that Emmy nom for S2. Jake can sell some funny one-liners too but they don't make Nick particularly memorable, not the way he was in S2. It diminishes the character if he's only the comic relief because that was not what his character originally was established to be.
The book idea kind of came out of left field. A little hard to buy that Nick would write anything good, but I'm down with it if we get more Pepperwood. The writers haven't really done anything else with the book since the season premiere though. Wasted opportunity to do a Pepperwood episode where we are "in" Nick's book. I think that would be a lot more fun to watch instead of what we've been getting through most of S6. I think this storyline would work better if we saw Nick actually struggling to be a better writer instead of just suddenly being one.
The writers didn't end Nick/Jess in a good way so now that the show is probably ending, they're coming back to that well for better or worse. I think the writers have run out of ideas at this point. This is the last major storyline they can think of to close up the show.
My thoughts, for what they're worth...
This episode was the first time I had any emotional reaction to NG in ages. I actually got a little teary. With the present giving. Which I wasn't expecting after season upon season of the doldrums...
I am a Nick/Jess fan - so it was good to actually have some interaction between the two...finally. And its actually logical that it was bitter and fraught rather than schmultzy. Its waaaay too early to revisit them as a couple but it did show that there is something still lurking underneath all the farcical nonesense and the other relationships.
I feel Jess and Nick as buddies has been taken with Cece and Winston. Which is fine. But it does limit Jess/Nick screen sharing.
As for the general state of the show - I watched a few Series 1 episodes last night, insomnias rife atm, and boy what a difference. The writing was so tight, so sharp, and the acting etc was a lot more committed. Essentially there is too many people involved now for a 20min episode. Early days, four peoples stories with occasional visits from others (Cece, Nadia, Genslinger, etc) Now there is 7 people - its crowded and means the original four are swamped. I mean Season 1, Winston was pretty swamped and they focused on Nick, Jess and Schimdt with a sprinkling of Winston. I love Winston, he is my reason for watching week in week out. And I do want Nick and Jess to happen when its the right time. But boy, its like a chore watching since mid season 3 to be honest except for the Winston comedy. I would really advise the writers to pare it down, strip it right down to the fundamentals again. You can't lose Cece now, but her and Winston are good. Just cut the Robby stuff, oust Reagan, get more Schmidt again and more Nick. Individually and together. Robby and Reagan are basically Jess and Nick in the opposite sex form. Jess' quirks etc are Robbys and Nicks snarkiness etc is Reagan. Why bother introducing two characters who provide absolutely nothing fresh or interesting, they are just copies of existing cast. And the addition of these people just dilutes the rest of the them. Eeeeh. Just annoys me. It was soooo good, seasons 1 & 2.
You wouldnt find Hitler playing jungle music at three oclock in the morning!
I read spoilers so I expected the Christmas surprise. Winston's makeshift beanbag chair to Cece was the highlight of the episode for me. I wasn't expecting that at all and it really made me laugh. That felt so classic Winston. Also the episode emphasized how it was Robby who set the Christmas surprise up for Jess so not sure how that affects your enjoyment of the ending if you are a Nick and Jess fan.
Lots of highs and lows this episode. It was great to see Nick and Jess actually sharing a scene together, but the logic of the episode falls apart if you look at it too closely. Like Nick would rather spend Christmas with his 6-month girlfriend than his friends (two of whom are moving out of the loft soon) or his family in Chicago. His girlfriend, who btw didn't even make the effort to visit him at Thanksgiving or Christmas on her own. Makes everything a little less sweet, even though Jake and Zooey did a good job selling that scene to make the emotions feel real.
I agree that the writers often try to stuff too many characters and storylines into an episode, which dilutes the episode. I want to get rid of Reagan and Robby too because I think it is too many characters at this point. I agree with you that it can feel like a chore to watch NG nowadays. There was something so sharp and effortless in the writing in S1/S2, but now you feel the show straining to work.
That's the thing I don't get. How can you be fan of one pointless detail, like Jess & Nick? They had their chance, but blew it. Deal with it, and move on people.
The show don't make me laugh as much as it used to. Only the guy playing Winston, really cracks me up, lately. The rest of the cast seem to be too into their mimics and acting mechanisms, they're no surprises anymore.
I agree, I rewatched the pilot epi recently, and boy, I forgot how good this show used to be...
They had their chance, but blew it. Deal with it, and move on people.
I'm not upset they broke up. I actually think they had to break up at some point, but the way they ended it completely destroyed Nick's redemption arc in S2. It wasn't about getting the two lead characters into a relationship, it was actually character defining for Nick. It was about going after something he wanted after a lifetime of being afraid. The way it ended made it seem like the wrong choice to do that and regressed him past where he was even in S1. You take away his love for Jess and look at the character you have now. Nothing much. I think he's more interesting with that dynamic to his character. Jess also needs something to ground her character or she becomes too cartoonish and unlikeable. Whether they end up together or not, I want the writers to give their relationship a proper ending instead of that stupid "just friends" ending that didn't make sense since they were never friends after and Nick never fought for her either.
Yes, this season Winston is the MVP. Schmidt is a close second this season. Cece doesn't get much to do, but that's par for the course. That Jess/Nick storyline is still a mess and you're right that the story beats aren't surprising. The show needs something but Reagan and Robby ain't it.
I think Jess & Nick are the kind of pairing, that looks good on paper. And once you pair them, no matter how you handle the relationship, in the end, they just don't click. And it's forcing it, that's bad for the show. When Jess said she had still feelings for Nick, and there was this ridiculous Friends rip-off, in early season 6, I knew the show had lost its way for good. So the better thing to do now, is to just ignore whatever happened between them, and concentrate on giving a proper ending to the series. Jess & Nick was a mistake. They had to happen, to realize it was, but that's it.
shareI know you mean "looks good on paper" for the show, but actually in the show, the premise is Jess doesn't need a "good on paper" guy, she needs a guy who shows up and Nick is always that guy.
I think the writers just didn't have any good ideas on where to take these characters after they got together other than create ridiculous drama every week in S3. They also undercut Nick's character by making him a "box guy" and a *beep* lawyer. They pushed Nick a little too far into the non-functional adult category. It became more pathetic than funny at some point.
The problem in S6 is Jess said she had feelings for Nick and there was still nothing. She kept saying it, but it felt less and less true as she spontaneously decided this Robby thing was a good idea. Hell, they should have been dealing with the "Nick and Jess" situation back in S4 but all they did was just ignore the fact that they were ever in a relationship. I don't think that worked either. There had to be a happy medium in there somewhere for these characters in their post-breakup world but the writers failed to explore it.
Giving a proper ending to the series necessarily entails revisiting Nick and Jess again. It ended with them in the pilot so they need to bring it full circle, whether they end it with them together or not.
I haven't made myself clear. I meant, the essence of these two characters, don't match. From afar, they seem to work. But in reality, they don't. They only bring out the worst of each other. And I could agree with you, if they were written, not according to what they are, when they were together. But they were, which is why I don't see another try doing any difference.
shareHave to agree to disagree with you there. They have always been there for each other but for some reason when the writers put them in a couple, all that stuff disappeared.
They want to make it about her being a "life plan" person and him being a "box guy" but I never saw that as the reason they broke up. Nick choked and couldn't say he saw a real future with her, even though he did. That's why they broke up. He's in a place now where he can say he wants to get married and have kids and all that so I can see them working in theory, although in the show they haven't interacted enough to make a reunion feel earned. We'll see if the writers can actually sell it using the remaining episodes they have left in the season.
I'm mostly in it to see some good television so I don't really have any horse in this race on whether Nick and Jess should actually end up together in the show. I like them together, but I won't mind if they don't end up together. If it doesn't feel earned, I don't want it. The writers can keep them apart or end it on an ambiguous ending but I want the emotions to feel authentic at least.
Because some people work better as friends, than lovers. That's all.
shareSure but right now Nick and Jess don't feel much like either. I don't think Nick could ever just "be friends" with Jess. He did say he fell in love with her the moment she walked through the door. If that's the premise, the writers can't end it the way they did. They basically just turned off Nick's feelings. Pretty anticlimatic ending if that's the case.
At this point, I'm waiting for them to pull the trigger on Chekov's gun for Nick's feelings. Nick is the one who has to make the choice to start it again, just like he did the first time. I think it would be out of character for him not to come back for Jess. The writers' job is to make it not feel like he is just backsliding but making the active choice for her though. At least in the show right now, Nick/Reagan does feel more solid a choice than Nick/Jess so I'm curious to see if the writers can actually push it in the other direction and make it actually feel genuine.
Nick has moved on. I don't see the problem here. Jess was the one who wanted to get back together with him. But then, she decided not to. Otherwise, she would have. You don't need to show, what was already implied.
shareI'm curious as to what you see as the ideal ending for the show. I'm fine with both Nick and Jess moving on, but it doesn't feel like they have moved on since the show never really dealt with the fallout from their breakup and the fact that they are exes living together. I guess we're just supposed to assume all of that happened offscreen, but that feels kind of a lame copout by the writers.
shareWhat fallout? They only dated a couple of months. Season 4 already adressed their break up. And the finale showed Jess & Nick, making piece with it. And the fact that they are exes living together, and being fine with it, adds to that idea. I'm going to sleep now. Talk to you later.
shareI think it was supposed to be a year. I think if they were real people there would be more emotional fallout from them having been in love and then dating and sleeping around right next to each other. That was weird. I didn't buy that at all, especially since they established that Nick doesn't think exes can be friends. I always thought one of them should have moved out at some point. That's the only way I can see a friendship after the breakup ever working.
Have a good rest.
There were, in season 4. Season 4 was the fallout of this relationship, that was for the most part, a long overdue break up. Causing more drama, over this, would be ridiculous. And have one of the characters, move out. Just like in life, they are in a state, where they tolerate each other. Nothing can be said or done, to explain why they broke up, more than what already happened.
shareIf S4 was considered "the fallout," that would be pretty lame. Like Nick wouldn't react at all when Jess said she loved another guy after only knowing him for 4 months. That seemed weird. At the end of everything, it didn't seem like they were even friends. They said they were, but it didn't feel like they were at all. Pretty tall feat for them to almost completely avoid each other despite living together. It didn't feel like they acted like real people. They don't act like real people now. There needed to be something that showed how their relationship changed in the breakup other than just complete avoidance of each other, but the writers went for the copout of everything happening "offscreen." Nick and Jess never interacted anymore and I think that did hurt the show. They didn't need to be a couple again, but I think they did need to have them interact to show how their friendship evolved instead of just having them continuously saying they were still friends when they clearly weren't anymore.
shareSo what? It's called life. People get together, break up, move on. And when they do, it's because the relationship wasn't that deep, to start with. And maybe it's just the way it is for Nick & Jess. They aren't such good friends, afterall. Because from what I remember of the early seasons, the only one who's always got her back, was Winston. But he's the same with everybody. Guess he's the one who really knows what friendship means, and who's able to put his feelings aside, in favour of said friendships.
shareThere is real life and there is "TV reality," I suppose. In real life they never would have ended up just living next to each other as exes, but that's the "TV reality" we are meant to accept. I would argue that the writers did try to establish that their relationship was supposed to be deep or at least Jess was for Nick with her being there for his cancer scare and the death of his father. They established that they would always be there for each other in the early seasons, even if the show didn't really live up to that after they broke up.
There are certain narrative beats that I think audiences expect in order for there to be a satisfying conclusion. The writers might be able to leave Nick and Jess not a couple but having them end up with Nick/Reagan and Jess/Robby feels like such an unsatisfying end to the show to me. At least for me, I did expect Nick to fight for Jess at some point after "Mars Landing." It would be a really unsatisfying conclusion to me if Nick went through all of that in S2 to end up as Dumb!Nick in S6 and the show just ends with him there. Really? All that character development for him to just end up like that? It's just very anticlimactic. Even if Nick and Jess don't end up as a couple, there needs to be something else to give a satisfying conclusion to both Nick and Jess's character arcs for it to be a happy ending to the show.
I don't think it's so far fetched. Nick & Reagan are two horndogs. And Jess & Robby live in the same alternate universe.
shareIn S5, they did establish that Nick wants to get married and have kids so it feels like he would be more serious about everything with Reagan than she is with him. Not sure if the writers are going to go in that direction for creating friction in their relationship though.
The way they've written Robby this season, he's way out of Jess's league now. He should have ended up with Babs. Not sure why he even wants to be with Jess, who couldn't even make up her mind about whether to be with him or not to start with when he looks fully capable of finding someone to date that is into him. Jess and Robby are really annoying together, brings down the whole show. Might as well keep her single. I also liked Robby better when he wasn't Jess's boyfriend.
Nick doesn't know what he wants. Proof, he completely dropped the book.
Yeah, let's keep her single.
That's really the end of Nick's arc though, right? Finally figuring out what he wants out of life. He'll never be a life plan guy, but he needs something to give shape to his life. That's really his happy ending on the show.
He's actually still working on the book, no? But he's just writing and not working on getting anything published. I think that's going to come back before the end of the season though.
It would be bold of a sitcom to let its lead end up single. Single Jess is probably better. I'm definitely tired of seeing her throw herself at guys. Girl needs an intervention or to go hang out with her mom's women's commune for a while.
As for the general state of the show - I watched a few Series 1 episodes last night, insomnias rife atm, and boy what a difference. The writing was so tight, so sharp, and the acting etc was a lot more committed. Essentially there is too many people involved now for a 20min episode. Early days, four peoples stories with occasional visits from others (Cece, Nadia, Genslinger, etc) Now there is 7 people - its crowded and means the original four are swamped. I mean Season 1, Winston was pretty swamped and they focused on Nick, Jess and Schimdt with a sprinkling of Winston. I love Winston, he is my reason for watching week in week out. And I do want Nick and Jess to happen when its the right time. But boy, its like a chore watching since mid season 3 to be honest except for the Winston comedy. I would really advise the writers to pare it down, strip it right down to the fundamentals again. You can't lose Cece now, but her and Winston are good. Just cut the Robby stuff, oust Reagan, get more Schmidt again and more Nick. Individually and together. Robby and Reagan are basically Jess and Nick in the opposite sex form. Jess' quirks etc are Robbys and Nicks snarkiness etc is Reagan. Why bother introducing two characters who provide absolutely nothing fresh or interesting, they are just copies of existing cast. And the addition of these people just dilutes the rest of the them. Eeeeh. Just annoys me. It was soooo good, seasons 1 & 2.
It definitely felt like that to me as well. It was so reminiscent of the first season's Christmas episode, with the addition of Nick and Jess' significant others. I saw it more like the creators and writers are prepping the show for a finale just in case they don't get picked up for a season 7. A key in this episode is Nick revealing to Jess that he HAS noticed how "squirelly" she's been acting lately, something that's way out of character for him. It's never left to assume that Nick is paying attention to details like that. It's something that SHOULD make for good writing in the second part of this season. Another key in the last season finale was a "character growth" from Jess - she realized on her own, that because of her unrealistic expectations of people and life, she walked away from a man that she genuinely loved and was incredibly happy with. She basically realized that she *beep* UP. A girl that runs around people-pleasing, knitting, using glitter, and singing *beep* up, and may have lost (possibly) the love of her life. Those are the things that make me believe that yes, they both belong together. He started to believe that he deserves better because of her, and she finally realized that her expectations blinded her from true love.
shareMaybe, but Nick isn't her true love. If anything, Sam was the one closest to that defintion. And THIS is what the writers really fck up, to persue this ridiculous Ross & Rachel thing, between Nick & Jess. But they are no Ross & Rachel, because once they got over the break up, they stopped caring for each other, altogether.
shareWow, you're the first person I've met who thought that Sam was her true love. If anything, I would say Ryan was the best fit for her. Sam didn't even care about her feelings when they got together in their friends with benefits setup. And then they got together the second time over a restraining order. That was never going to work out.
Maybe S2 Nick was her true love but S6 Nick and S6 Jess have to convince me they actually belong together. At this point, they have been broken up for way longer than they have been together, years in fact, so the writers are going to have to sell this relationship again. Does the audience even remember the way they used to be? It's been a long time since they've really interacted at all.
Nick and Jess turned into Ross and Rachel because of weak writing. The writers seem to only go back to this well when they can't think of anything else to write about. I always saw them more as a Tim/Daisy situation like in that British show "Spaced" instead of Ross and Rachel.
True love isn't unicorns and rainbows. It's two people who overcome difficulties.
I hope they won't have to, because that would be ridiculous. That ship has sailed.
Then they should put a pin on it, and concentrate on the bigger picture. Leaving Cece & Scmidt be the only couple from the "house".
I agree that true love isn't unicorns and rainbows, but I'm a sucker for a good love story. The passion/chemistry has to be there and then both people need to be on the same page about the future for a relationship to last. I would be okay with leaving it ambiguous, but I can't say a Nick winning Jess back moment wouldn't be appealing to me because I loved S2 so much.
I was never that invested in Schmidt and Cece. They are mainly inoffensive to me. They kept Schmidt neurotic this season and they keep putting stuff in about Winston and Cece's friendship so I'm pretty happy about the state of that. I'm all about Winston/Aly though. I'm looking forward to her return this season. I don't know why they don't promote that as much as Reagan coming back. Nasim Pedrad is great on the show; she's a much better fit than Megan Fox.
Season 2 was good for them, because they were still in the idea of a couple. Once the idea became a reality, that's where you could see they were just not meant to be that way.
I don't care about them, either. That's why one pointless couple, is more than enough on this show.
I completely forgot about Aly, lol.
Eh, like most shows and movies, most writers are only good at the buildup to a relationship, not writing everything afterwards. Ironically, this seems to be the inverse pattern for Schmidt and Cece. They definitely retconned their relationship with that proposal but Max and Hannah sure sold the hell out of it.
Have you ever seen that movie "Blue Valentine"? I bet there is a version of Nick and Jess that would end up like that. There is a fan theory that Nick is actually a functional (or not-so-functional) alcoholic, which is why you see such a drastic personality change in him between the early seasons and the later seasons so he could turn into the guy Ryan Gosling played in that movie. Nick needs to figure his life out so he doesn't end up like that.
That is the ultimate struggle of sitcoms, right? Writers naturally want to pair off their characters after a while and go to great lengths to keep all the pairings "within the family" because it's easier to write those kinds of storylines where the audience is already invested in pre-existing characters. This can be tiring for the audience though. It needs to feel authentic and earned instead of just the default setting for a show.
Blasphemy for forgetting Aly :p Winston/Aly actually work a lot better long distance than Nick and Reagan do. It's taken for granted that Winston loves Aly but it's never over-bearing. I still don't buy why Nick thinks Reagan is so special. I also like all of Aly's subtle putdowns of Nick. I think that's what they were trying to do with Reagan but Jake Johnson and Megan Fox just don't have any chemistry so it just doesn't work. She just seemed to hate Nick for most of her arc and then suddenly she was in love with the guy. *shrugs*
Agreed. Sorry, but Aly was absent this season. Which is why I completely forgot about her.
Nick & Reagan in early season 5, was the usual cliché, that wants two people who hate each other, being that way, because they are in fact, hot for each other, lol.
I haven't seen Blue Valentine, but I do think Nick has issues.
It's all good. I was just teasing you. :) I'd watch NG if they pushed Winston to be the main lead instead of Jess. The writers don't seem to know what to do with Jess other than stick her in yet another doomed relationship so they should just let her take the B and C stories. Winston can carry the A story now and they should let him.
Nick/Reagan especially annoyed me because their love story is exactly the Nick/Jess plot from S1/S2 but sped up with none of the emotional foundation. I just found it kind of insulting that the writers expected us to buy into that. They're better than that, or they should be. I can't buy Nick/Reagan on that fact alone. Also for the fact that Reagan told Nick she wished he were in a coma when the Cubs won the World Series. That isn't a Nick Miller dealbreaker? Come on ;)
"Blue Valentine" is a great movie. You should check it out if you haven't already. It's about two people who used to be in love but don't work in the present day and how their relationship falls apart. Heartbreaking but damn good.
You must have the DVDs, because I don't remember half of it, lol.
That said, I don't remember Jess being like Reagan, during the early seasons. It was just the usual people getting to know each other, before the bound creates.
But one thing's for sure, this talk made me want to rewatch the early seasons ; )
I wanted to watch BV, but haven't got the time yet.
I do love dissecting all the nuances of Nick Miller. He's probably my favorite TV character ever. I've rewatched S1/S2 so many times the canon is embedded in my brain :) I find all the stuff that happened in S4 the hardest to remember. That was probably my least favorite season. I actually gave up on the show at LAXmas because I realized I just didn't enjoy watching it anymore, but I binge-watched it when the season was over. I liked S4 a lot more when I watched it all at one time instead of having to wait weeks between episodes (the schedule was really weird during that season so I never knew when it was on anyway).
Jess and Reagan are different as characters but their plots to fall in love with Nick are the same. Blue-eyed brunette moves across the hall from Nick. They fight a lot, they have a "not like this" moment, he kisses her and suddenly he's all in. I challenge you to rewatch the Nick/Jess arc from S1/S2 and then rewatch the Reagan arc in S5. They are disturbingly similar, like a paint-by-numbers version of the plot they used the first time to get Nick and Jess together only a detached, emotionless version of it. I actually wanted Nick to get into a serious relationship after Jess but this wasn't the way to go about it. They couldn't even give him a new love story. At least the Jess/Ryan story was distinct and separate, even if Ryan was dull AF, a pile of human saltine dust.
The early seasons still hold up a lot on rewatch. I know this is a sitcom, but I really enjoyed the heavier episodes they did like "Injured" and "Chicago." That line about Nick being the guy on the beach guarding the wallets gets me every time.
Nice analysis ; )
Sorry, I'm not really chatty today. My energy was drained by these two Supernaturtards. They think they own the board, I have no right saying bad things about their stupid show. And I'm the child. They harasse me and pollute my thread with their petty attacks, I fight back, and I'm the troll, lol. One of them was really pissed, because I pin pointed her perfectly. I have a sense for these things. And I'm the one who's projecting. Losers. I had to be really nasty with them, with my last post, and I'm ashamed of it. But some people just ask for these kind of things.
No worries :) This board is usually dead so it's nice to get some live discussion going, even for a little while.
I never got into "Supernatural" but I hear its fans can be a little...intense (I think that's the nice way to put it). I think it's more fun to talk with people who can see all the good and bad in a show. I've had some fun discussions with NG fans about the "Nick and Jess problem" on the show. Some of them still buy into their love story, but a lot of people, even fans of the couple, admit it's a little ridiculous to still root for them at this point based on their limited interactions. The writers haven't done a very good job re-establishing why we should still want them to get back together.
I really think NG is in trouble because I see even a lot of the hardcore superfans starting to bail out based on the first half of S6. NG used to be a safe bet for renewal at the start of S6 but ratings have kept dropping since the season premiere and they are lucky if they even break the 1.0 mark in the 18-49 demographic.
Maybe it is better to end it this season because I bet the writers would try to stretch out this ridiculous Nick/Jess thing into S7 if the show gets renewed. I hope they can bring that to a close this season and if they get an S7, just focus on the main cast and not these ridiculous romantic triangles.
True. Very few people have the capacity to see the good and bad, of what they like, in this website. It's really pathetic.
I think that's it for NG. And I hope they won't make these stupid love stories, the main stakes to end the series with.
It's probably going to be Nick/Jess ending the series in the last episode, just because I don't see the writers being able to create stakes other than that.
I like a good love story but when a love story is so poorly executed like it currently is in S6, that is really the worst thing to watch.
If they do get an S7, I want it to be a crazy experimental season. Pepperwood! Zombies! Mars Landing! Furguson gets an A-story! They should just go all out and crazy with it. No more will-they-or-won't-they storylines. They aren't good at it anymore and it's killing the show.
Lol. Yeah, that'll be great.
If these are the real stakes left, then I won't be back next year : (
I'm in it until the end, if only to see how far the writers can dig themselves into this hole and if they can ever dig themselves back out.
The one dealbreaker that would make me quit the show is Nick saying "I love you" to Reagan. If he does that, I know the writers have completely forgotten their characters. If Nick thinks *this* relationship is love, I just can't buy into the show anymore.
I think that's what will happen...
shareI predict he'll choke and won't be able to say it back to her if she says it to him. If he says it to her and then they try to do a Nick/Jess reunion, I'm not seeing how that will feel genuine at all. That would just feel like Nick backsliding.
I don't know why they started Nick/Jess in the S5 finale. They really haven't done anything interesting with it. They might as well have saved it until this year's Christmas episode and it would have had the same effect on the show. This love triangle is a really tired trope and it hasn't even been well executed here. If Nick/Jess need a 3rd party catalyst to push them back together when they've been living together this whole time, they really shouldn't be in a relationship with each other.
Actually, I think it will be the other way around. And then they will be back on the Jess & Nick copout endgame.
shareThat would be a terrible ending. Nick can't have his "one true love" / dream girl Reagan so he settles for Jess. That would only work if Nick isn't able to say it back, not if Reagan rejects him.
Reagan actually seems a bit lukewarm about him now. She bailed on him on Thanksgiving and wasn't even going to see him on Christmas before Jess asked her to visit. She said she was "crazy about him" but I've never seen that come through on the actual show. Feels like she's just having another fling or slumming it with him and Nick is way more serious about her than she is about him.
That is why I think Nick is the one who will get the bad news. Reagan saying I love you, would be retarded.
shareWell she did decide to get in a relationship with the creepy guy she lived with who smells her hair and couldn't even hold a conversation with her so there's that. They don't really make her act like a real person so I don't think it would be out of character for her to say that to Nick just to serve as a plot device to get Nick and Jess back together. The writers are just really bad at showing why Reagan should want to be with Nick in the first place.
shareThat would be dumb. Reagan isn't the one expecting things, from this relationship. Nick is.
shareThis whole arc is pretty dumb though. We know Nick and Reagan have to break up for some inane reason so that the writers can make a Nick/Jess reunion happen. Nick/Jess is in the cards, but I'm not sure how the writers are going to take us there in 7 episodes. There has to be some sort of friction that breaks Nick and Reagan up.
shareI hope you're wrong. They are so far gone from each other, this would be the most random thing happening ever.
shareThey set things up again in the S5 finale by making Jess realize she is still in love with Nick so that's Chekov's gun this season. This arc has been pretty predictable so the narrative beats should go: Reagan moves in, Nick/Reagan start to have friction, Nick realizes he is still in love with Jess, Nick breaks up with Reagan, Nick does a big romantic gesture to win Jess back. It kind of has to come back to Nick/Jess just based on the pilot to bring the whole show full circle. Doesn't necessarily mean they end up as a couple, but the show does have to revisit their relationship and their former bond.
I'm waiting for the writers to surprise me but they haven't done that in years. Cliches aren't necessarily a bad thing. It will really come down to the execution whether or not it will be entertaining to watch.
Ok. So I'm officially done. Because they are not even good friends anymore.
shareI agree with you. The writers still haven't really shown us why we should want these two people to be in a relationship now. It's too abrupt. I guess we are supposed to assume they are still best friends because that's what they insistently tell everyone. I like Nick/Jess but I like good writing more. It has to feel earned or they should stay apart.
shareTrue.
shareIt definitely felt like that to me as well. It was so reminiscent of the first season's Christmas episode, with the addition of Nick and Jess' significant others. I saw it more like the creators and writers are prepping the show for a finale just in case they don't get picked up for a season 7. A key in this episode is Nick revealing to Jess that he HAS noticed how "squirelly" she's been acting lately, something that's way out of character for him. It's never left to assume that Nick is paying attention to details like that. It's something that SHOULD make for good writing in the second part of this season. Another key in the last season finale was a "character growth" from Jess - she realized on her own, that because of her unrealistic expectations of people and life, she walked away from a man that she genuinely loved and was incredibly happy with. She basically realized that she *beep* UP. A girl that runs around people-pleasing, knitting, using glitter, and singing *beep* up, and may have lost (possibly) the love of her life. Those are the things that make me believe that yes, they both belong together. He started to believe that he deserves better because of her, and she finally realized that her expectations blinded her from true love.
shareThis was the first new girl episode i liked in a long time. it wasn't all about Jess for once and it was a nice ensemble episode. and for once i actually laughed a few times and jess wasn't too insufferable
share