Why the all black cast?
I thought Marvel was tapping into this new diversity experiment thing. Are the filmmakers racist?
shareCan't be racist if you're black. Only whites. According to blacks that is.
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MovieChat Forums > Black Panther (2018) Discussion > Why the all black cast?
what's a nubian?
shareSo do you plan on finishing the discussion we were having in my thread or are you just going to sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist? You demand that I answer your questions, so I do, and then you fuck off. It's been over a month now.Last things first. You've never answered a single question that I asked you. Here are the questions that you never answered or responded to:
What makes you state that the Black Panther "Cast" is all black?
What evidence can you share that Marvel is Newly "Experimenting" in Diversity?
Where is your proof that the filmmakers are "Racist" and who are the filmmakers "Racist against?
Please show me your answers and responses to those questions in this thread. This was our discussion.
And: Just how does one 'finish' a discussion?
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"What makes you state that the Black Panther "Cast" is all black?"
Two working eyes.
"What evidence can you share that Marvel is Newly "Experimenting" in Diversity?"
They made Thor a woman. They made Wolverine a woman. They made Hawkeye a woman. They made Ms. Marvel a Muslim. They made Captain America black. They made Spiderman black. They made Iron Man a black woman for Christ's sakes. And that's just the already established characters. That's not including all of the new diversity characters that are fresh off the shelf.
"Where is your proof that the filmmakers are "Racist" and who are the filmmakers "Racist against?"
In the lack of diversity in the cast. Against ever race that isn't black.
"Please show me your answers and responses to those questions in this thread. This was our discussion."
I answered all of your questions. You have yet to answer one of mine.
"And: Just how does one 'finish' a discussion?"
A simple "well I can't think of anything else to counter your argument so good showing" would have sufficed.
The cast of the Black Panther movie is not ALL Black. Several of the cast members are clearly Asian and Caucasian and the cast is quite diverse. Marvel print as well as the MCU is quite Diverse in their casting as well and Diversity isn't something that Marvel has recently just started. Black Panther the character was introduced into their stable back in 1966.
Within the comics Jane Foster assumed the role of a Thor when Thor Odinson was no longer worthy. All of the other examples that you listed where done within the printed page and they are representative of what Marvel has been doing since 1966. Nothing "new" for Marvel in their expanding their characters. Miles Morales never replaced Peter Parker as Spider-Man just as Scott Lang did not replace Hank Pym as the Ant-Man. Bizarro Superman did not replace Superman. Again for Marvel expanding their character set and situations is nothing New and for me at least not experimentation. Sam Wilson took on the mantle of Captain America and so has Bucky.
I'm not sure you understand the definition of the word "Cast". Andy Serkis is in the "Cast" of Black Panther and his skin color isn't Black or brown or even pecan. There isn't a lack of diversity in the "Cast" of the Black Panther and I suggest you check the IMDB "Cast" list for Black Panther to both entertain and educate yourself on the diversity of the "cast".
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"Where is your proof that the filmmakers are "Racist" and who are the filmmakers "Racist against?"Again the "cast" of Black Panther isn't all Black. This is quite confusing for you isn't it? The "Cast" and the "Crew" working on the film Black Panther is also diverse. What race do you see with your own two eyes that aren't represented in the "Cast" list? Portions of the movie are filmed in South Korea and there are plenty of extras that are South Koreans. With my own two eyes I don't see any Lack of Diversity but quite a richness of ethnically different peoples. What I didn't see so far are any "Animals". I don't recall a single bird or fish, but I did wonder if the elongated aerial ship was based on a Flying Fish. I don't know why but it did evoke that kind of imagery to me.
In the lack of diversity in the cast. Against ever race that isn't black.
No wait, there was a dog in the trailer. I take that omission back now that I remember.
I don't see how you can call the Marvel film makers racist nor can I figure out what race that you, with your own two eyes, see is being slighted, excluded or being discriminated against within the movie Black Panther?
So within this discussion we've clarified a few things that are not alternate facts:
The Black Panther cast is diverse. Different races are in the cast list and are in the film
The Filmmakers are not racist as the cast, crew and many extras are shown on screen and are present within the IMDB pages along with photos.
Within this thread, your thread, you never answered my questions as you are not able to copy paste and or create a link to where you did.
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Now we're extending to the crew here? Sorry. How about no. how about we keep this discussion about the cast. Where it matters. Again, the lack of diversity I'm talking about, as I've been talking about since the beginning, is in the main characters being all black. Not one single Wakandan is portrayed by a white person, or an Asian person, or a brown person, or a Latin person. Just black. Why is that ok?
We haven't clarified anything. I'm still trying to get you to answer my questions. You continue to avoid them. Because I sense you see the hypocrisy just as clearly as everyone else does.
So it is confirmed that the "Cast" for Black Panther isn't all Black. Correct? Your beef is that all the roles for Wakandans are acted by only actors of color. Correct?
It is also confirmed that the movie Black Panther has a diverse "Cast" of Asians, whites and people of color. Correct?
You're upset because YOU don't know what Diversity even means, or how it is affected, or the reason it is implemented for those who choose to implement diversity do you? Admit it.
Again, the lack of diversity I'm talking about, as I've been talking about since the beginning, is in the main characters being all black. Not one single Wakandan is portrayed by a white person, or an Asian person, or a brown person, or a Latin person. Just black.The people (actors) portraying Wakandans are indeed quite diverse in skin tones from light brown to dark brown. None are the technical color of Black. There may very well be some dark-Skinned Latins or Hispanics playing Wakandans though neither you nor I know anything about the entire casts' backgrounds. Latinos and Hispanics are of varying shades also. But you know that your statements aren't about any people other than Caucasian. Correct?
So it is up to you to have to make the case as to why there is something wrong with Wakandans being portrayed by people of color. And it is up to you to explain or make your case as to why Wakandans should have white actors portraying Wakandans that are not white.
Wakanda is a Marvel created country where few outside of Wakanda have ever been allowed within Wakanda. Wakanda is unbowed, unconquered and unbroken by any other races, cultures, religions or ethnicities.
So why should it NOT be okay for Blacks, as you call them and according to you, to only play the roles of the Wakandans? Again ALL of the Wakandans are people of brown skin. Correct? So you'll have to remove Latins and Brown-Skinned from your supposedly excluclued list. Neither you nor I know if any of the actors are brown skinned or dark skinned Latin/Hispanic, i.e. Rosario Dawson, Zoe Saldana, Gina Torres, Laz Alonzo.
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We haven't clarified anything. I'm still trying to get you to answer my questions. You continue to avoid them. Because I sense you see the hypocrisy just as clearly as everyone else does.
If you read my current response to you YES we have clarified many things and anyone else reading through this thread will also see the clarifications and come to the same truths that you are neither able to refute or rebut with any fact, any example, any citations, any evidence or any post of anyone else with the exception of a "Sock-Puppet" account. You stand completely naked and alone in denial of these clarifications and truths.
The entire Cast of Black Panther is NOT all Black.
The entire cast of Black Panther is richly diverse.
The Filmmakers are NOT racist.
Marvel has been executing Diversity within their comics since like, forever.
These clarifications to your initial post, including the title which continues to be incorrect, are irrefutable by you.
In truth your title is just click-bait in your attempt to spout your silliness about race and your complete lack of understanding of Racism, so called Reverse Racism, or Discrimination.
Your stance is that the Filmmakers are Racist against whites because no white actors were cast as Wakandans? Is that what you have been trying to say but afraid to say?
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Already covering your ass for future humiliation I see. Already helping yourself to a nice big slice of "sock account" for insurance? Why not go all in and add "troll" for future reference. That seems to be just as popular.
How about this then since you're such a fan of semantics, The entire cast of Black Panther is cast exactly the way it is in the comic. Does that make it sound better for you? The point remains, Thor didn't get that same treatment. Seems perfectly fine to cast black actors to fill in the role of white characters, but we can't have it the other way around.
And again, I already told you this shoehorning of diversity is not something Marvel has been doing since "like forever", it's something they've been doing since "like 5 years ago". At most.
Afraid to say? I've only tried spelling it out to you since the beginning of this conversation! Are you so slow that you're only now coming to understand what the entire point of this thread has been about? It's in the bloody TITLE for crying out loud! YES! There is a racist double standard that Marvel is pushing where it's ok to replace while characters with POC, but not ok to reverse it with BP. How are you NOT getting it?
Already covering your ass for future humiliation I see. Already helping yourself to a nice big slice of "sock account" for insurance? Why not go all in and add "troll" for future reference. That seems to be just as popular.Nope. There is no support network of posters for YOU to turn to and I hope you're not immature and have to rely on "Sock Accounts" rallying to your warped POV and or tortured definitions of "words" that's all. I don't need to cover my "arse" for anything. I don't need back up or minions when I am just pointing out things that you too could have easily found on the internet or if you used just a wee bit of logic. But alas you are in your bubble and stuck on your "feels". As far as "Trolling" goes you have been the very poster child for using "Troll" tactics and exhibiting "Troll" behavior. The very title of this thread was nothing more than Click-Bait for you to try, mind you try, to bait and switch the conversation to your skewed train of thought.
You're mortally upset that Idris Elba was cast as Heimdall. No, allow me to clarify that: You're dripping in faux outrage that a person of color, a Black Male, dare have a role for a character in Asgard.
You have a real penchant to be really really loose with language in order to try and disguise your bias. The entire cast of Black Panther isn't all Black. Not a single role for a Wakandan is played by a white actor and this somehow is wrong, and bad, and allegedly racist according to you.
Somehow Thor:Ragnarok has violated the "Comics Code" of Racial Continuity.
Somehow Black Panther has broken the "Formula" for Marvel's Race-Based Diversity. A formula that only your little "Secret Society" knows anything about.
Diversity+TWR+Movie=WR+BR-2WR
or is it
Racial Continuity => -(WR) + BR
No? Yes?
All the Characters in Asgard in the comics weren't White but for you they were. You don't care about ALL of the Characters in Asgard just the White drawn Characters. Hogun was never White...
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Marvel History 101:
Ant-Man became Giant-Man Became Yellow-Jacket Became Goliath..... wait for it.... became Black Goliath, many, many years ago.
Captain Mar-Vell became Captain Marvel became female Captain Marvel became Black Female Captain Marvel became White Female Captain Marvel..... wait for it...… many many years ago.
White Iron Man became Black Iron Man (many, many years ago)
Nick Fury became Black Nick Fury (Ultimates) around 2002. Clearly NOT within the last 5 years. So yeah Marvel isn't just now Newly dabbling in Diversifying it's main characters within the last 5 years. Marvel has been doing this probably before you were born and learned how to read which clearly you aren't even doing now.
No there has NEVER been a racist double standard of replacing White Characters with Black characters. There haven't been any Black characters to replace just to start the conversation. Marvel realized early in their history that it is THEY that actively excluded POC from their printed page. It was Marvel that started depicting their Comic-Book mythology the way that Marvel felt it best represented the real world and their creative world. Here is the operative phrase for you; Marvel's printed universe. You'll have to show us this Marvel formula or Golden Rule that you claim has been violated. You do know that it's Marvel's Gold so they can make their own rules?
So according to you the "White" characters within the Marvel printed universe are being discriminated against because they aren't able to become "Black" Characters?
You are some kind of a special person to care so passionately for the livelihoods of the "White" comic book characters who are forced against their will to become Black characters. Just think of all of the little White children on the printed page who might lose their collective minds realizing that they are no longer safe from becoming a "Black" character either on the page or during the leap to the Big Show!!
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Oh the HORROR of realizing that you as a small white child comic book character or even an older white comic book character suddenly becoming BLACK or god forbid FEMALE!!
Will anyone think about the "White" comic book children??!!
No for you the REAL crime, the REAL sin, the REAL offense is that no "Black" comic book character has ever become "White"!! Where is the equality? Why can't a "Black" character ever ascend to the greatness of becoming "a White comic book character even in print or make the appropriate leap to celluloid?!!! Why are "Black" comic book characters being denied the privilege?
Just think of all of the white actors who have studied all of their lives learning how to walk, talk and or be black. Auditioning for roles as Africans or to appear in a Tyler Perry movie as a preacher of a Black church and being summarily denied and having to hear, "Sorry". Will anyone address this racist double standard?!! No one?
Fear not not_a_virus.exe is on that wall to defend the honor of all of the white printed characters who have lost their lives and souls at the alter of Racial Diversity.
Yes I am openly mocking you!
virus obviously has a shallow intellect.
I responded to this: "So is Zimbabwe. And Nigeria. And South Africa. And Madagascar. All of these countries have white populations living in them."
I mentioned to him that those are not secret nations protected from foreign colonization, while Wakanda is. Obviously that's something a history-denying troll would never bring up or consider in his completely fabricated, lie-riddled "arguments."
That's where it ends, too. He claims to want Wakanda represented as a real-world African country that has experienced what other African countries have experienced, which is a dishonest argument.
Hell, as a troll, he probably didn't even realize how stupid it sounds to pretend that Wakanda is a normal African country. Trolls usually don't think much.
Frogarama, you are spot on. Part of the Wakanda mythology that Marvel created can be summarized in three words: Unbowed, Unconquered and Unbroken. Therefore unfortunately for countries outside of Wakanda, and yes that would include other African countries, they have all been denied access either by force or deception. Wakanda is insular and relatively homogenous.
Virus would be better off attempting an intellectually dishonest debate as to whether or not Wakandans are racist, discriminatory and or racially arrogant.
The countries he mentioned were once at one time or another all colonies that had their natural resources appropriated and for Wakanda their Vibranium like (Avatar) Pandora's Unobtanium have never been subject to that event. T'Chaka never had to be Idi Amin. No colonizers have ever had to be kicked out of Wakanda.
Just as Virus wants Marvel's Asgard to represent Norse mythology but that breaks down for him with all the other mythos that belongs solely to marvel and not to Norse mythology.
I applaud you for at least sharing and understanding the Marvel rationale for doing what they do which is tell stories and make money.
Good point about Vibranium: The defense from colonization resulting in controlling their own valuable resources is absolutely central to the story of Wakanda.
I hadn't even considered that aspect, so thank you.
We could even toss in the trivial point that Wakanda may very well have white people in its population, or Asians, or Asgardians, or Kree... But we only see Wakandan royalty.
It's actually a racist assumption that just because the few Wakandans we see are black, then they must all be black. It's a safe bet, but it's a racist assumption.
It would be like seeing the pre-Obama days of only white American Presidents, and then assuming that means America is 100% white.
Obviously it's the kind of argument only a troll would put forth and put so much effort into.
At least now you're starting to see the hypocrisy. I appreciate your humility.
shareAt least now you're starting to see the hypocrisy. I appreciate your humility.Please point out to me where I am starting to see the hypocrisy. Just cut and paste that into your reply. You can also cut and paste evidence of my humility while you are at it. share
Rather than jump on another thread why not just resurrect this one?
All of your questions were already discussed here ad infinitum, ad tedium, ad nauseum
add wash rinse repeat.
Because you've offered nothing of any value to the discussion. You've hopped around goalposts throughout the entire debate leaving nothing of any intellectual value. 'Tis why the discussion is with another. You had your chance and you blew it.
shareBecause you've offered nothing of any value to the discussion. You've hopped around goalposts throughout the entire debate leaving nothing of any intellectual value. 'Tis why the discussion is with another. You had your chance and you blew it.This entire thread speaks otherwise. Enjoy!
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Let me save them the time. To anyone reading this, the entire thread can be summarized as follows
Me: "Why are there black Asgardians?"
You: "Because Asgardians aren't real and can be anything the writer wants."
Me: "Then why were they white in the book?"
You: "Because the writers wrote them that way"
Me: "Then why didn't the writers write Wakandans to be diverse?"
You: "Because Wakanda takes place in Africa"
Me: "But Wakanda is a fictional location like Asgard"
You: "Yeah but it it takes place in Africa"
Me: "But there's more racial diversity in the rest of Africa than there is in Wakanda"
You: "Yes but the writers wrote Wakanda to be racially homogeneous in the comic"
Me: "Yes but they wrote Asgard to be racially homogeneous in the comic as well"
You: "Yes but Asgard isn't real"
Me: "Neither is Wakanda"
Let me save them the time. To anyone reading this, the entire thread can be summarized as followsExcept that none of what you summarized ever happened the way you summarized it, now did it? Cherry picking summarization. Too funny! I asked you a question about an All-Black cast, and introduced you to the Tolkein White Guys, to which you start railing on Asgard??? Sound familiar? share
Me: "Why are there black Asgardians?"
You: "Because Asgardians aren't real and can be anything the writer wants."
Me: "Then why were they white in the book?"
You: "Because the writers wrote them that way"
Me: "Then why didn't the writers write Wakandans to be diverse?"
You: "Because Wakanda takes place in Africa"
Me: "But Wakanda is a fictional location like Asgard"
You: "Yeah but it it takes place in Africa"
Me: "But there's more racial diversity in the rest of Africa than there is in Wakanda"
You: "Yes but the writers wrote Wakanda to be racially homogeneous in the comic"
Me: "Yes but they wrote Asgardians to be racially homogeneous in the comic as well"
You: "Yes but Asgard isn't real"
Me: "Neither is Wakanda"
Antman becoming Giant man isn't Antman becoming black. Giant Man becoming Yellow Jacket isn't Giant Man becoming black. Yellow Jacket becoming Goliath isn't Yellow Jacket becoming black. These are the exact same character under different alias'. Black Goliath is a completely different character from Goliath.
What on earth is 'Black iron Man'? The only black Iron Man is a black woman who was created not long ago. The only other character I can think of is War machine, Please tell me you're not trying to use War machine to make your point here...
You seem to be under the delusion that making white characters black is somehow "owed" because there hasn't been enough representation of POC in "Marvel's printed universe". An industry that encompasses primarily of white men, trying to cater to an audience that comprises primarily of white men, in a country that comprises primarily of white people, And somehow making every white character black is tantamount of reflecting reality? You're out of your bloody mind!
Antman becoming Giant man isn't Antman becoming black. Giant Man becoming Yellow Jacket isn't Giant Man becoming black. Yellow Jacket becoming Goliath isn't Yellow Jacket becoming black. These are the exact same character under different alias'. Black Goliath is a completely different character from Goliath.Those are examples of Marvel executing comic book based Racial/Ethnic Diversity with their characters. You don't know how to stay focused do you? You stated that Marvel has only been Newly Experimenting with Diversity for the past 5 years and I pointed out to you all of the characters that are Black Characters before 2012.
Black Iron Man was Rhodey and he donned the Iron Man armor (1983) and was Iron Man before Riri Williams who invented her own. For the record Riri Williams is NOT playing Tony Stark. Rhodey got his own armor as War Machine but he WAS Iron Man when Marvel was executing that Diversity and their Diversity.
You don't understand Racial Diversity?
You think it means the same Race being made up of different races? If so then that means you agree that there is ONLY one race of man which is fine by me.
Race is nothing more than a human construct that bothers you based on skin tones. share
Oh for God's sake man give it up. You're running around in circles arguing semantics just for the sake of trying to make you're point and it's just not sticking. If my teacher is white and then all of a sudden I have a temp that happens to be black, that doesn't mean that my teacher is white, it just means that my temp is black. You're really grasping for straws here. You can't even hear how ridiculous your arguments are because to you, just jotting down anything no matter how little sense it makes is a win in your mind.
shareIf my teacher is white and then all of a sudden I have a temp that happens to be black, that doesn't mean that my teacher is white, it just means that my temp is black. You're really grasping for straws here. You can't even hear how ridiculous your arguments are because to you, just jotting down anything no matter how little sense it makes is a win in your mind.And thus you see the hill that you can't climb. The person standing in front of that classroom is a Teacher and it didn't matter the skin color or the race. It was Diversity in action, practiced, legitimized and no actual White teachers were denied a job over a Black teacher. It didn't change the classroom instruction. You as a little white ignorant child didn't even know that it wasn't a teacher even though he was no longer white. You too could be taught what ever that lesson was by that **Black** Teacher.
Your next class will be on African-Wakanda studies. The class could be taught by King T'Challa but we have selected Sterling K. Brown. We would have liked to have had Tom Cruise teach the class to appeal to your racial insensitivities and racial insecurities but a white actor teaching the class in blackface would be highly objectionable. Also, Tom Cruise would be teaching against type as the teacher is an African or someone from African descent. Though Tom Cruise is very much human he would struggle playing a Black African. Robert Downey Jr though did give a near perfect effort playing a Black African-American GI in Tropic Thunder but he was too busy for this class.
Your third class will be a Thor:Ragnarok re-enactment. The roles of the alien beings of Heimdall and Valkyrie will be played by Idris Elba and Tessa Thompson respectively. Two very fine actors who are not playing against type even though they themselves are not actual Alien beings of Marvel's Asgard.
Does that make sense in your mind now?
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"Does that make sense in your mind now?"
Nothing you say, however logical, will ever made sense in that racist idiot's mind.
MM I can't believe that you read that much of this thread and I applaud you for your patience if you did because you must be exhausted.
I have refrained from calling out this individual because it would be for me cruel to pick on the intellectually handicapped.
You doing it for me makes me laugh though. Just like you can't tickle yourself and make yourself laugh, I can't personally belittle someone and find it funny.
You seem to be under the delusion that making white characters black is somehow "owed" because there hasn't been enough representation of POC in "Marvel's printed universe". An industry that encompasses primarily of white men, trying to cater to an audience that comprises primarily of white men, in a country that comprises primarily of white people, And somehow making every white character black is tantamount of reflecting reality? You're out of your bloody mind!See this again is the example of a Strawman argument. These are your conclusions based on your own prejudices based on your own ramblings based on your own perceived grievances and faux outrages.
You can defend or attack your own ramblings.
Marvel does what they want to do based on their own reasons.
In a free market society you can choose to see or not see the product. You can choose to buy or not buy the product based on whatever rationale you so choose.
You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own set of facts.
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No. A strawman argument would imply that I'm putting words in your mouth only to use said fabricated word to my advantage in attempt at discrediting you. That's not what I did. It's also used however, as a trump card to get out of a sticky situation where one can't defend themselves.
shareYou JUST made my point. Why would I go bitching about characters that weren't white in the comic? Hogun wasn't white in the comic, and he too, wasn;t white in the film. He was accuratley represented. So why would I bring him up as an issue when the WHOLE POINT of my argument is to bitch about the white drawn characters? You're making this so easy for me! And you can't even see the hole you're digging yourself in.
shareYou JUST made my point. Why would I go bitching about characters that weren't white in the comic?Because you were bellyaching that all Asgardians where white in the comics? You were also saying your panties were all twisted and knotted up because the Norse were all White so all Asgardians had to be JUST HAD to remain white. It was then pointed out to you that Asgardians aren't even human nor are they all White which is why you thought Heimdall couldn't be, shouldn't be and can't possibly be played by any one who was not white.
You then retreated from that point because you realized that Marvel's Asgard is made up of denizens of different skin tones and reflect earth but are not of or from Midgard.
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So why would I bring him up as an issue when the WHOLE POINT of my argument is to bitch about the white drawn characters?
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You just have a hard time keeping track of your own ramblings. You also think that Angels are white, male and demons aren't fallen angels. You "feels' a lot of wrong headed things.
For the record: Angels are NOT former humans and are very much genderless. Angels are Race-less or Race-Neutral regardless of how they were drawn on stained glass windows. Marvel's Asgardians are also Race-less and or Race-Neutral and Marvel has chosen to depict them with ANY skin tone under the rainbow as they have seen fit to use. Marvel has decided that all actors are able to play Asgardians.
Marvel has also created Wakanda based off of Africans that are homogenous. That means that all Wakandans are probably all racially Africans.
So sorry. There is no digging of holes or trenches but there are mountains that you just can't climb.
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Here. I found this quote about you and for you from the Mad Titan himself:
In time, you will know what it's like to lose. To feel so desperately that you're right, yet to fail all the same. Dread it, run from it, destiny still arrives...Fun isn't something one considers when balancing the universe. But this does put a smile on my face.Yes this puts a smile on my face. Your quixotic quest is coming to an end.
Dread it, run from it, destiny still arrives.... share
I repeatedly focused on Heimdal and Valkyrie. I never once mentioned Hogun. You used him in a desperate attempt to divert from my point only to shoot yourself in the foot. You do that a lot. When you wanted to focus on Marvel's Asgard, you used the argument that Gods don't need to remain white because Marvel's Asgard is different from Norse mythology's Asgard. Fine. That still however, didn't remove the dilemma of said characters being white in the comic yet black on screen. Try as you might, that's a paradox that you'll never work around.
Angels are Caucasian, I didn't say they were white. I said they were Caucasian. And the only way to decide which race they belong to is to look to the country of origin. Angels originated in the middle east along with the Abrahamic religions that created them. That makes them tan/olive in tone.
And yes, Angels are indeed male. If you want to argue with me then you don't know the first thing about Abrahamic mythology. Try picking up the bible or the Torah if it suits you.
Additionally, I never said that demons aren't fallen angels, I said that demons are genderless beasts, whereas angels aren't. According to Tolkien mythology, orcs are fallen elves, does that mean that orcs and elves are not two different things? You confuse yourself. You do this a lot too.
Marvel also created an Asgard where Heimdal and Valkyrie were white, but alas that meant little in the film. So it shouldn't mean anything in Wakanda either.
First you sidestep over Idris Elba "not playing a Brit", and now you sidestep that "they have different skin tones". How much longer do you intend to zigzag around the focal point of my problem? How many bloody times do I have to repeat myself to you? I'm not talking about SKIN TONES here, I'm talking about RACE. This is a RACE issue. Not a SKIN TONE issue, not an ETHNICITY issue, not an ACCENT issue, not an EYE COLOR issue, not a NATIONALITY issue, RACE. It's a RACE issue.
I already made my case clear several times in the past. Because there weren't any problems with Marvel making white characters black, and so too should the same standard remain constant in Black Panther. White characters turned black in Thor. Black characters remained black in BP. Once again you will zigzag with "but Wakanda is an African country". So is Zimbabwe. And Nigeria. And South Africa. And Madagascar. All of these countries have white populations living in them. Real life Africa has more diversity than a fictional country. That's not representative of reality.
Why should it not be ok for Whites to only play the roles of the Asgardians? You keep on ignoring me. We are talking about characters that were once established as white characters, that are now not. Why does the same logic not carry over to Black Panther?
(FYI, the bold part down below is where your entire argument fell to pieces based on things you either never considered or weren't smart enough to consider, feel free to skip to that)
"This is a RACE issue."
-The race of a non-human demigod-like character. You simply pretend that Asgardians are Nordic, and they are not. You know they aren't. Trying to pretend they are Nordic is a bold-faced LIE.
"Because there weren't any problems with Marvel making white characters black, and so too should the same standard remain constant in Black Panther."
-You're not talking about standards. You're simply pretending that one of the Wakandans SHOULD be made white just because one character in Thor was made black. It's a completely fabricated B.S. argument, and you know it.
-Again, I will point out that you lied to me when you said there is no difference between non-human Asgardians in a non-Earthly realm, and human characters in a hidden country on Earth. It was a bold-faced lie when you said those two different concepts were the same.
-Thus, it's obvious you have zero honesty, but we know that because we know you're a troll AND WE LOVE WATCHING YOU WASTE YOUR TIME WITH THIS ARGUMENT, WE ENJOY JOINING IN AND CONTRIBUTING A LITTLE BIT MORE THAT YOU'LL RESPOND TO. It's a group effort and we are laughing at you, not because your trolling is amusing, but because you're an actual person who is spending his worthless time trolling. THAT is why we laugh at you.
"So is Zimbabwe. And Nigeria. And South Africa. And Madagascar. All of these countries have white populations living in them."
-None of those countries are hidden lands protected from foreign colonization. WAKANDA IS. You're obviously too dense to even consider this basic fact, or you're too much of a lying troll to admit it. Which is it?
"Why should it not be ok for Whites to only play the roles of the Asgardians?"
-It was never about things being "ok," it was just creative and socially aware choices to further change the lily-white representation that has been a historical precedent. You know this and your entire argument against it is a trolling LIE built out of spurious, irrelevant comparisons.
"The race of a non-human demigod-like character. You simply pretend that Asgardians are Nordic, and they are not. You know they aren't. Trying to pretend they are Nordic is a bold-faced LIE."
I never said they were Nordic, I said they were white. Because they were. I've outlined that too many times to count in this thread. I've literally provided proof that they were white and you seem to have no problem ignoring it.
"You're not talking about standards. You're simply pretending that one of the Wakandans SHOULD be made white just because one character in Thor was made black. It's a completely fabricated B.S. argument, and you know it."
Why?
"Again, I will point out that you lied to me when you said there is no difference between non-human Asgardians in a non-Earthly realm, and human characters in a hidden country on Earth. It was a bold-faced lie when you said those two different concepts were the same."
No it wasn't. They are the same, The very same standard for diversifying Asgard, can equally be applied to Wakanda. There is literally no defense you can make to argue otherwise. Which is why you still have yet to refute it.
"Thus, it's obvious you have zero honesty, but we know that because we know you're a troll AND WE LOVE WATCHING YOU WASTE YOUR TIME WITH THIS ARGUMENT, WE ENJOY JOINING IN AND CONTRIBUTING A LITTLE BIT MORE THAT YOU'LL RESPOND TO. It's a group effort and we are laughing at you, not because your trolling is amusing, but because you're an actual person who is spending his worthless time trolling. THAT is why we laugh at you."
Don't fool yourself sweetheart. If you think I'm here wasting my time, when you respond to literally every remark I make in essay format, you're no better. Keep telling yourself that this is just a hobby.
"None of those countries are hidden lands protected from foreign colonization. WAKANDA IS. You're obviously too dense to even consider this basic fact, or you're too much of a lying troll to admit it. Which is it?"
Why are you assuming that a white character playing a Wakandan must mean that narratively, they are a product of colonization? Why can't Wakandans just be white? They could just as easily sell it as they are all natively Wakandan, it's just that some of them are black and others are white. The writers had no problem ignoring the canon of Asgard and making two of the characters black. This is the hypocrisy I'm talking about. We have to make a fictional country all one race, but don't have to apply the same rules to Asgard? Fuck off.
"It was never about things being "ok," it was just creative and socially aware choices to further change the lily-white representation that has been a historical precedent. You know this and your entire argument against it is a trolling LIE built out of spurious, irrelevant comparisons."
Spurious irrelevant comparisons that you can't refute. Don't forget that part. That's the meat and potatoes of all of this.
You keep on regurgitating the same argument over and over again. The cast is only diverse insofar as the characters in the comic are. White characters in the comic are white in the film. Black characters in the comic are black in the film. I'm asking why this formula hasn't carried over to Thor. The fact that Marvel created BP back in '66 has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
No, they are not representative of what Marvel has been doing since 1966. All of the examples I listed happened within the last five years. That makes this trend "new". And suggesting that this was a trend that carried forward since 1966 is blatantly false and dishonest.
Andy Serkis plays a white character. Andy Serkis is white. Idris Elba plays a white character. Idris Elba is black. Tessa Thompson plays a white character. Tessa Thompson is black. Once again, I'm asking you why it's fine to retain the racial continuity of Wakandans in BP while not applying the same continuity for Asgardians. There is no racial diversity in Black Panther because every character is portrayed correctly as they are in the comic. Yet it seems perfectly acceptable to tarnish the continuity of Thor for the sake of diversity. I ask again, why?
There are white characters in the film
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