umm..
Pretty sure Daphne apologized for kissing whats-his-face in Mexico. she didn't think it was right, or okay.
The Bay/Tank storyline was messy and awful, I'll agree there. Tank was not a monster, but honestly, Bay didn't think so, either. She was influenced by others, and by the time she lives in.
And Lily confessed her feelings for another man. so I don't really understand where you're coming from ?? I don't get any vibe that the creator of the show is saying these women are perfect, it's just life, romance/relationships are messy.
I agree that the creator of the show is not saying these women are perfect. How could she? They're atrocious. Even the showrunner must know that. It's awful to watch.
Real life people are atrocious, too. That's true. But my real-life protagonists, my heroes, while human and imperfect, are not atrocious to the level of the female characters on
Switched at Birth. My family members, friends, and co-workers do not treat people as horrific as these female characters do.
Daphne did apologize for kissing Quinn in Mexico, but then, she went right on texting Quinn and hiding it from Mingo. Even after she put a stop to that, she entertained the idea of volunteering with Quinn over the summer, before Quinn himself put the kibosh on that. There are other internships in this world. If Daphne had respect for Mingo, then she would not have pursued a position working so closely with Quinn.
Daphne has made an art out of kissing other people's boyfriends. She kissed Emmett when he was in a relationship with Bay. She kissed Noah when he was in a relationship with Bay. She tried to kiss Nacho when his girlfriend's back was turned. She kissed Travis when he was in a relationship with Mary Beth. She hasn't apologized for any of those.
And she kissed Campbell when she was seeing Jorge and Quinn when she was dating Mingo. And what about apologizing for the AWFUL way she treated Regina and Bay, after Angelo's death. Has she ever thought to do that? No.
I am able to follow a protagonist like Tony Soprano, and even root for him, although he is a mass murderer, because Tony Soprano lives by his own moral code. Daphne doesn't have a moral code. She isn't a teenager who merely got confused and made some mistakes either. Her actions are more than that. While she was on parole for blackmail, she endangered innocent lives by throwing a couch off a dormitory roof. She jeopardized her mentor's career, by stealing prescription drugs from a lock box, under his supervision. She caused hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage to a construction site that stood to revitalize her old neighborhood. She never apologized for any of that. Instead, she allowed Bay to take the fall for it, and used Bay's kindness and loyalty, despite the fact she has always denied Bay the same.
According to the writers, Bay and Daphne are now sisters to the end, bonded together more deeply than any other two characters on the show. I have no choice but to accept that reality. But it doesn't ring true to me, at all. It's a farce and a stupid decision on the part of the writers. It has turned their TV series into some sort of fairy tale, and it had been meaningful and good.
I suppose Bay is a product of the time she lives in. That's unfortunate. I would have loved to have seen her stand up to Regina, Daphne, and to the people at the college and make a stand for what is right. But she is young, and I can accept that she wasn't strong enough to do that. It's a shame. It does make it difficult for me to root for her. The least Bay could have done is apologize to Emmett for spending the evening sitting on her ex-boyfriend's lap and inviting Tank to look at ceiling stars with her in bed.
Bay tells Emmett to not think of Tank as a monster, because she made those mistakes that evening. Bay tells Emmett that what happened was her fault, too. But then, Bay never tells Emmett she is sorry for her mistakes. Emmett is expected to accept them without an apology from her. Why?
As for Lily, yes, she did the right thing confessing her feelings for another man, and she did the right thing by agreeing to get back together with the father of her unborn child.
I didn't care for Lily's attitude, though, when she continued to flirt with the man for whom she had feelings, even after she had reunited with Toby. And I didn't care for the fact that she threatened to take Toby's child away from him, when he was jealous that she was flirting with this man right in front of him. That sucked.
If the tables were turned and Lily had walked into a bar to see Toby putting his hands on a very pregnant woman's belly, a woman to whom he had confessed an attraction, then how would Lily have felt?
How would viewers feel if AFTER Lily was crushed to see Toby's hands all over this pregnant woman's belly, Toby then told Lily he was taking Lily's baby to another country and she couldn't do anything about it?
And yet viewers are supposed to see Toby and Lily as the romantic "it" couple of the series. They'll most likely marry in Season 5, and we'll see them raising a baby together. Everything is romantic and coming up roses for Toby and Lily, because Lily has been allowed to emasculate Toby on every turn. And he's just stood there and taken it, exactly the way he did with Nikki.
These women on
Switched at Birth treat men horribly, and our society is so screwed up right now that some people think that's okay.
It's not.
Bay pitching a fit on the beach in the middle of Emmett's school project was not okay. Bay giving Emmett an ultimatum was not okay. Bay texting Skye pretending to be Emmett was not okay. Bay kissing Travis for the sole reason of making Emmett jealous was not okay.
And Bay hasn't even apologized for it. It's awful that the writers would choose to have Bay's character do those things and not make amends for them.
Sure, men and women behave badly in real life and on TV. But only the men apologize on
Switched at Birth. For some reason, women are never held accountable on this show. They never own up to their mistakes or make amends. It's as if a different set of standards exists for men and women on
Switched at Birth, and I am sick of it. The men on this show certainly grovel to women, ad infinitum. Couldn't we at least see the women apologize once in a while?
Otherwise, how will the female characters ever grow as human beings?
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mzlove
9 years ago
Nailed it. This issue is rampant in TV today in general. It's disappointing.
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Henrietta_S
9 years ago
I can't agree completely, since we do disagree on the rape issue.
But only the men apologize on Switched at Birth. For some reason, women are never held accountable on this show. They never own up to their mistakes or make amends.
Erm, no.
It's one thing to say that you feel the female characters get away with more. But the male characters are just as bad.
Emmett is a constant jerk, especially with the whole Skye thing. Not to say that Bay didn't do anything wrong there, but he practically forced her to make a scene on the beach - he could have at least told her "Hey, I'm going to deal with my feelings over the Tank thing with my new film project, just giving you a heads up".
Then there is Travis. He lied to Bay, potentially jeopardized her artistic career and expected kisses for it.
Then there is Tank. Whether or not you think that what he did that one night was wrong, he immediately made it about himself when Bay was crying and telling him she felt violated in some way. I'm sorry, but the human beings I know would care about why their friend felt that way and not get all defensive over themselves. And even later, he insisted she should stop the investigation, but she told him that she hadn't felt good after that night and wouldn't lie, and the investigation wasn't her fault anyway. His behaviour may have been out of worry for himself, but one can't say that he was being a friend to Bay like they were supposed to be before that night.
Then there is John. A guy who gets all "Oh thank god!" when the daughter he is not related to confesses to a crime committed by the daughter he is related to so that the daughter he is related to doesn't have to go to jail or risk her precious wish of a medicine career that she had had for approximately three weeks.
I am wondering whether the women in the show may just be scrutinized more harshly than the men. Western society is, after all, not exactly free of sexism.
But whether or not you agree with that, I would think that it's a little too far to say that the men on the show are innocent little angels who apologize for everything they do wrong while the women are monstruous she-demons out to devour your soul.
I would say, all of the characters are jerks in one way or another. It might just depend on what each of us finds more or less jerk-like.
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MollieDanny
9 years ago
I am wondering whether the women in the show may just be scrutinized more harshly than the men. Western society is, after all, not exactly free of sexism.
But whether or not you agree with that, I would think that it's a little too far to say that the men on the show are innocent little angels who apologize for everything they do wrong while the women are monstruous she-demons out to devour your soul.
I would say, all of the characters are jerks in one way or another. It might just depend on what each of us finds more or less jerk-like.
Where do I say that the men on the show are innocent little angels?
I clearly state that both "men and women behave badly." When you say that "all of the characters are jerks in one way or another," you are agreeing with me. That's a point that I made.
My gripe with the writers is that the women rarely apologize and make amends, whereas the men do it all of the time. I am saddened that the female characters on
Switched at Birth do not own up to their mistakes and take time to reflect on them. That's how characters grow. The writers are stunting the female characters by not allowing them time to do that. It's disheartening.
It's not a matter of the women being "she-demons" either. Daphne treats Bay worse than she treats any man, although she treats the men in her life badly, too.
I agree that the men and women on the show are equal-opportunity offenders.
However, I am sick of watching the men be the only characters to grovel and beg for forgiveness. Emmett spent TWO YEARS regretting and trying to make amends for his mistake in Season 1, and I can almost guarantee he will be the one regretting his actions in Season 5, too. Whereas Bay shouts to her imaginary self, "I had to do it. I don't regret it."
Okay, Bay, then don't regret that, but do regret
something. Do find some fault with yourself, somewhere, so you can grow. Same for you, Daphne, Kathryn, Regina, and Lily.
John spent an entire season groveling at Kathryn's feet for his indiscretion with Toby's mother-in-law. Travis felt so guilty about what happened to Bay at the dorm party that he discussed his feelings with Melody. At the art gallery, Travis even apologized to Bay for making so many mistakes. Tank apologized to Bay in the parking lot, after he bumped into her, while she was on a date with Garrett. Emmett apologized to Bay both on the beach and again in a video call.
The men on
Switched at Birth own up to their mistakes, apologize, and try to make amends, all of the time. The women rarely, if ever, do that. And if they do, they let it go by the next episode. We never see the female characters spend significant time reflecting on their mistakes and trying to learn from them.
I feel cheated. I would enjoy seeing the female characters grow in that way.
SIDENOTE:
Emmett is a constant jerk, especially with the whole Skye thing. Not to say that Bay didn't do anything wrong there, but he practically forced her to make a scene on the beach - he could have at least told her "Hey, I'm going to deal with my feelings over the Tank thing with my new film project, just giving you a heads up".
Unless weapons and/or threats are involved, people are in control of their own behavior. Emmett did not force Bay to make a scene on the beach.
And although Emmett apologized to Bay for not giving her a heads up, I don't feel he owed her one.
Bay showed up uninvited, unannounced, and after Emmett specifically asked her to give him space to deal with her version of events.
Bay proceeds to show up in the middle of a rare opportunity for Emmett (seeing as the only other USC student to ever receive a greenlight during freshman year is George Lucas). The project is probably akin to Emmett's final exam in the class, and Bay makes a scene in front of all of his classmates and co-workers.
If Bay made some work of art about Emmett's private life, and if Emmett had done the same thing to Bay in the middle of her big opportunity, Bay would not apologize. That's one of the differences between men and women on this show, and I am tired of it.
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Henrietta_S
9 years ago
Where do I say that the men on the show are innocent little angels?
You seemed to imply something to that effect. I confess, I exaggerated for artistic reasons.
My gripe with the writers is that the women rarely apologize and make amends, whereas the men do it all of the time. I am saddened that the female characters on Switched at Birth do not own up to their mistakes and take time to reflect on them. That's how characters grow. The writers are stunting the female characters by not allowing them time to do that. It's disheartening.
And I can't say that I ever got the impression that the men apologize and make amends when the women do not.
It's not a matter of the women being "she-demons" either. Daphne treats Bay worse than she treats any man, although she treats the men in her life badly, too.
Yeah, well, I do think that Daphne is a she-devil, so... :P
However, I am sick of watching the men be the only characters to grovel and beg for forgiveness. Emmett spent TWO YEARS regretting and trying to make amends for his mistake in Season 1, and I can almost guarantee he will be the one regretting his actions in Season 5, too. Whereas Bay shouts to her imaginary self, "I had to do it. I don't regret it."
Hrm, I did not see it that way. Sure, Emmett had to spend some time to get Bay's trust back, but she actually did give him the chance to get it back.
Plus, their situations were different. Plus, Emmett flipped out about the Tank thing as if he had never cheated on Bay.
I just don't think you can completely equate the two and thereby say that the reactions by the partner that felt/was cheated on should have been approximately the same and that the apology by the other partner should have been approximately the same.
Okay, Bay, then don't regret that, but do regret something. Do find some fault with yourself, somewhere, so you can grow. Same for you, Daphne, Kathryn, Regina, and Lily.
I actually think that Bay is pretty much the only woman on the show that reflects on her actions. Early on in season 1, she was the first to apologize to Daphne for... something, I think it was that she hadn't told her about dating Emmett.
Now, there are quite a few things that Bay doesn't regret, but she does regret a whole lot. Maybe you did not see it that way, I did. But that may also be because her storylines are so universally focused on her as an individual rather than her place in the family or her relationships.
The men on Switched at Birth own up to their mistakes, apologize, and try to make amends, all of the time. The women rarely, if ever, do that. And if they do, they let it go by the next episode. We never see the female characters spend significant time reflecting on their mistakes and trying to learn from them.
Hmm. I am inclined to agree _ a little bit_, but I don't think the men are as easy with apologizing as you see them. John, in particular, hardly apologizes to anyone ever, except maybe Kathryn and Travis.
Travis' apology rang kind of hollow, and Emmett' was hollow.
But that may be a very individual thing to interpret.
I feel cheated. I would enjoy seeing the female characters grow in that way.
While I don't agree with you as to the degree that the female characters don't do this, I do agree here: I would love to see Daphne and Regina grow in that way. They, particularly, need a healthy dose of regret.
Unless weapons and/or threats are involved, people are in control of their own behavior. Emmett did not force Bay to make a scene on the beach.
Eh, you CAN manipulate someone into a situation. If he had explained to Bay before what he was going to do, she would not have been surprised by any of it. And since she was his girlfriend at the time, he should have anticipated that she would find out sooner or later, and told her himself.
Since he didn't tell her himself, he forced her into a situation where she found out abruptly and reacted to that. He did not give her the opportunity to react to it in private, after he told her himself - and that makes him jerk-boyfriend of the century as far as I am concerned.
And although Emmett apologized to Bay for not giving her a heads up, I don't feel he owed her one.
I do feel he did. When you have a problem with your partner that you need to deal with in a school project that someone else, and quite possibly your partner too, is going to see at some point, then you tell them before. Period.
This is the kind of communication that is important in a relationship. He needs to deal with it? He needs to tell her. Her reaction to that would have been able to tell him a big deal about the state of their relationship too.
But he chose to be silent, so yes, he definitely had to apologize.
Bay showed up uninvited, unannounced, and after Emmett specifically asked her to give him space to deal with her version of events.
She was still his girlfriend at the time. Some visits are a part of that. And it is up to the individual to define what "some space" is. To Bay, it could have meant "You may visit me, but please not too often, please don't call too often, please don't address the issue while you visit me" etc.
Language isn't as effective as we mght think.
Bay proceeds to show up in the middle of a rare opportunity for Emmett (seeing as the only other USC student to ever receive a greenlight during freshman year is George Lucas). The project is probably akin to Emmett's final exam in the class, and Bay makes a scene in front of all of his classmates and co-workers.
A. He did that to himself. He could have been an adult and told her.
B. No, it was nowhere like his final exam. He was still busy shooting the film. Turning it in and having it watched by his teacher would have been the final exam.
C. Well, yeah, a scene before your classmates and colleagues sucks. But I repeat: He could have told her himself. He's not a baby.
If Bay made some work of art about Emmett's private life, and if Emmett had done the same thing to Bay in the middle of her big opportunity, Bay would not apologize. That's one of the differences between men and women on this show, and I am tired of it.
I actually think she would. But the difference is, I don't think Bay would not have told Emmett about the art piece she made. I think she would have given him the heads up.
As any good partner should. Obviously, Emmett is not one. So I'm glad if he stays out of Bay's life for good.
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MollieDanny
9 years ago
Hrm, I did not see it that way. Sure, Emmett had to spend some time to get Bay's trust back, but she actually did give him the chance to get it back.
Plus, their situations were different. Plus, Emmett flipped out about the Tank thing as if he had never cheated on Bay.
I just don't think you can completely equate the two and thereby say that the reactions by the partner that felt/was cheated on should have been approximately the same and that the apology by the other partner should have been approximately the same.
Yeah, we just look at things differently. I guess it would be boring if everyone thought the same way.
I didn't see Bay giving Emmett any chance to earn back her trust. I saw her transferring to his school and flaunting her new relationship with Noah, and then Ty, in front of his face. Sure, it was Emmett's fault. He's the one that blew it. But I don't see that Bay showed him any mercy or kindness.
As for Emmett flipping out about Tank, I didn't see that at all. Bay told him how the sex with Tank was her fault, too, and he said, "I'm not okay with that." Bay told Daphne that Emmett had asked her for space to process everything that had happened between them in the last year. When Bay needed space to process everything that had happened between Emmett and Simone, Emmett didn't show up in the Galapagos to interrupt her school project.
Hmm. I am inclined to agree _ a little bit_, but I don't think the men are as easy with apologizing as you see them. John, in particular, hardly apologizes to anyone ever, except maybe Kathryn and Travis.
Travis' apology rang kind of hollow, and Emmett' was hollow.
But that may be a very individual thing to interpret.
Poor John apologizes all of the time for everything, but I do agree that both Travis and Emmett's apologies to Bay rang very hollow. I do not think either man was sincere at all in his apology to Bay.
That's sad.
Eh, you CAN manipulate someone into a situation. If he had explained to Bay before what he was going to do, she would not have been surprised by any of it. And since she was his girlfriend at the time, he should have anticipated that she would find out sooner or later, and told her himself.
Since he didn't tell her himself, he forced her into a situation where she found out abruptly and reacted to that. He did not give her the opportunity to react to it in private, after he told her himself - and that makes him jerk-boyfriend of the century as far as I am concerned.
Yeah, this is another example of where we see things differently.
I don't think Emmett owed Bay an explanation ever, even after she saw the script. It's his life, too, and he can write about what he wants, just like Bay can make art about anything she wants. With the way I see it, neither of them needs to give the other a heads up at any time, whether they are together or apart.
She was still his girlfriend at the time. Some visits are a part of that. And it is up to the individual to define what "some space" is. To Bay, it could have meant "You may visit me, but please not too often, please don't call too often, please don't address the issue while you visit me" etc.
Language isn't as effective as we mght think.
I agree that Bay and Emmett have a language barrier, and for that reason, are better off apart. Emmett didn't seem to mind Bay showing up on the beach in LA. He even said he was glad to see her. But I wouldn't do that to someone. If I had hurt someone in the way that Bay hurt Emmett, then I wouldn't just show up to surprise them when they had asked me for space.
A. He did that to himself. He could have been an adult and told her.
B. No, it was nowhere like his final exam. He was still busy shooting the film. Turning it in and having it watched by his teacher would have been the final exam.
C. Well, yeah, a scene before your classmates and colleagues sucks. But I repeat: He could have told her himself. He's not a baby.
A. To me, it's not a matter of being an adult and telling Bay. To me, it was none of her business. But whatever. Emmett rolled with Bay's surprise. It didn't seem to phase him. It probably did make breaking up with her a whole lot easier though.
B. That's like saying that writing the answer to the exam question is no where near the final exam, but instead, the professor reading the answer is the final exam. Well, yeah, but if Emmett only has a few hours to film before his permit expires and his free labor leaves, then Bay's temper tantrum might have cost him his only opportunity to answer the "exam" question.
C. The only person Bay embarrassed is herself.
I actually think she would. But the difference is, I don't think Bay would not have told Emmett about the art piece she made. I think she would have given him the heads up.
As any good partner should. Obviously, Emmett is not one. So I'm glad if he stays out of Bay's life for good.
Like Bay told Emmett about corresponding with Ty overseas, while she was falling in love with Emmett? Like Bay told Emmett about talking to his mother Melody, when Emmett wanted to drop out of high school? Like Bay told Emmett about talking to his father Cameron, after Emmett asked her to stay out of the custody battle? Like Bay told Emmett about not getting into Pratt? Like Bay told Emmett about wearing a tuxedo to prom? Like Bay told Emmett about her potential to develop aneurysms? Like Bay told Emmett Mandy (aka Jennifer) was at senior skip day? Like Bay told Emmett about accompanying Daphne to the police station, instead of going to Carlton's graduation party? Like Bay told Emmett about her plan to take the fall for Daphne? Like Bay told Emmett what happened with Tank, before the whole rest of the world discovered it?
Yeah, I don't think Bay would tell Emmett about her art. Neither of them barely tell each other anything.
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