MovieChat Forums > The Man in the High Castle (2015) Discussion > Smith has killed the Reich.

Smith has killed the Reich.

posted 8 years ago by Rottenbeard
26 replies | jump to latest

In having Heusmann overthrown, he has now set the Reich on a course of utter destruction.

Like Joe's foxy girlfriend said, nothing will change under the status quo of the old guard, she was right, the culture will stagnate and innovation will die.

All the old timers care about is marching and garish architecture.

Heusmann was a man of vision and ambition.
Under his leadership the Reich would have conquered the stars.

Now it will simple crumbly away piece by piece until someone puts it out of its misery, much like the Byzantine empire.

"Damn you Weatherby Savings and loan, I spit at you!"

[–] ehaas-3 8 years ago

They still rule half the world. How are the Japanese holding them back just by existing? They're free to drain the Mediterranean and explore space all they want.

[–] smithjgs 8 years ago

The group was against Heusmann's plans.

Heusmann was an old timer.

If I were you, I'd wanna be me too. 

[–] Rottenbeard 8 years ago

He didn't seem that way to me, Himmler was an old timer and so was his attitude of keeping things as they were.

Heusmann wanted to take the Reich in a new direction.

Now all they have to look forward too is cold war where each side chips away at each others weak points until one or both collapse.

"Damn you Weatherby Savings and loan, I spit at you!"

[–] smithjgs 8 years ago

Heusmann wanted to take the Reich in a new direction.

Except that he didn't. He wanted to go to war and consolidate power.

Now all they have to look forward too is cold war where each side chips away at each others weak points until one or both collapse.

So he was better because he wanted absolute power?

If I were you, I'd wanna be me too. 

[–] Rottenbeard 8 years ago

So he was better because he wanted absolute power?

Yes. A lot of trouble comes from infighting and One-upmanship, it's better to have one absolute ruler then a mob of self-serving bureaucrats rallied around a weak leader.

Western history doesn't like to focus on the dictators who were beneficial for a nation.

He wanted to go to war

War was inevitable, better to have a quick war with a few million dead than a long drawn out one in which tens of millions die.

"Damn you Weatherby Savings and loan, I spit at you!"

[–] PaddysMama 8 years ago

I'm sorry, you want the Reich to survive? Huessmen wanted to kill millions of people! He was pure evil, for evil's sake. The Reich has its "lebensraum", there is no need to conquer more areas and kill more people.

[–] Rottenbeard 8 years ago

He wasn't evil, just pragmatic, he knew war was coming and that if he acted quickly fewer people would die than if he waited for Japan to get the bomb.

"Damn you Weatherby Savings and loan, I spit at you!"

[–] PaddysMama 8 years ago

War wasn't inevitable. He and his group caused the coming war by the shooting of the Japanese prince then by claiming that Hitler's death was a Japanese assasination. If it weren't for those two events, the truce could have gone on for years and years.

[–] Rottenbeard 8 years ago

They are two very militaristic societies, so war is coming.

A limited nuclear war would be better in the long run than a total nuclear war.

"Damn you Weatherby Savings and loan, I spit at you!"

[–] HarveyMidnight 8 years ago

Smith has killed the Reich.

Hmm.. my first reaction to the topic, tho... is "Cool. It needs killin'."

My second thought is that ALL governments, to some extent, are corrupt. SOME more than others, certainly. Some are downright evil.

But what Smith ALSO did, was prevent a global atomic war which would have resulted in tens of millions dead, many more casualties, and untold damage & illness to people over generations from radioactive fallout.

That's a good thing.

WHATEVER the future holds for this world, it's gonna do better without trying to absorb the consequences of a massive atomic war.

Sometimes fires don't go out when you're done playin' with them.

[–] Rottenbeard 8 years ago

War is coming, and because of Smith's actions more people are going to die.

"Damn you Weatherby Savings and loan, I spit at you!"

[–] mikexmene 8 years ago

But didn't Smith out Joe's dad who did want to go to war?

[–] jswhalen1 8 years ago

True, but with season 3, Smith will view Hitler's movie collection. Where would that lead? Does it seem plausible that Smith may actually lead a revolution against the Germans in America, feeling that he must set the world right.

[–] andyjohnwise 8 years ago

The war would have killed millions, but Heusmann saw that they were heading down a road where some day the Japanese would develop atomic weapons and a cold war or possibly nuclear war would eventuate.

What Adolf Hitler did to non whites and Jews was horrendous, but Heusmann killed Hitler and prevented equally evil underlings like Himmler from seizing power.

Under Heusmann there would be only one world power and humanity would be able to focus on achieving free renewable power, space exploration, geographic engineering turning deserts into farmland and there would be peace on earth.

After 1000 years it's likely that humanity would look back at World War 2 and the Japan/Reich war as something akin to Greece v Persia.

[–] ehaas-3 8 years ago

The war would have killed millions, but Heusmann saw that they were heading down a road where some day the Japanese would develop atomic weapons and a cold war or possibly nuclear war would eventuate.

Probably avoidable given mutually assured destruction principle, the fact that each side has an unprecedented amount of living space and resources.

What Adolf Hitler did to non whites and Jews was horrendous, but Heusmann killed Hitler and prevented equally evil underlings like Himmler from seizing power.

So he wanted to get rid of people who had committed genocide in the past so that he could do so now?

Under Heusmann there would be only one world power and humanity would be able to focus on achieving free renewable power, space exploration, geographic engineering turning deserts into farmland and there would be peace on earth.

And how does the presence of the Japanese get in the way of any of this? In fact, these accomplishments would make war more pointless.

Do the Japanese have oil deposits and the Reich is running out of oil? No problem, there will be a new kind of ultra-modern energy source. Geographic engineering and serious space colonization make land grabs against one's neighbors redundant.

I also think that a one world state would be essentially unstable. What would be the justification for staying united if there are no potential rivals? Nazi/Fascist basic ideas can be interpreted in a bunch of different ways which could lead to rebellion. Countries and regions would want independence.

[–] yngvai 8 years ago

>>>After 1000 years it's likely that humanity would look back at World War 2 and the Japan/Reich war as something akin to Greece v Persia. <<<

Sounds like someone's been listening to Dan Carlin!

[–] Rottenbeard 8 years ago

but Heusmann saw that they were heading down a road where some day the Japanese would develop atomic weapons and a cold war or possibly nuclear war would eventuate.

I saw him as someone like Watchmen's Ozymandias, knowing that he will have to kill millions to save billions. It's not like he took any pleasure in the thought, he just knew that it was a necessary evil that he would have to take upon himself.

Under Heusmann there would be only one world power and humanity would be able to focus on achieving free renewable power, space exploration, geographic engineering turning deserts into farmland and there would be peace on earth.

Under the right leadership humanity could achieve wondrous things.

If we spent a fraction of the money we waste on welfare, foreign aid and garbage wars on renewable engey and space exploration, we would have colonised Pluto by now.

After 1000 years it's likely that humanity would look back at World War 2 and the Japan/Reich war as something akin to Greece v Persia.

I'd give it 50 years at most.

"You merely adopted the 80s, I was born in it, Molded by it, I didn't see the 90s until I was already a man"

[–] HarveyMidnight 8 years ago

I saw him as someone like Watchmen's Ozymandias, knowing that he will have to kill millions to save billions.

I'm sure that's the way he saw himself.. but I saw him as a guy who wanted to stamp out an entire culture despite having a peace treaty with them... all because to his own racist belief in the superiority of his own culture. Those millions he wants to kill? The only reason he believes they have to die, is because they aren't Aryans.

Yeah, someone could make the argument that the current situation cannot remain stable-- tensions, financial crises, etc are on the way.. that, tho, is GOOD news for the Resistance. And that's who I am rooting for.

Sometimes fires don't go out when you're done playin' with them.

[–] QueenCandie 8 years ago

Great news either way! The guy was a total lunatic!

[–] NotASpeckOfCereal 8 years ago

Great news either way! The guy was a total lunatic!

Shhh, the OP was really liking that lunatic and the great Fatherland ...err, future he promised!

Brevity is the soul of wit.

[–] Rottenbeard 8 years ago

What's not to like?

"Damn you Weatherby Savings and loan, I spit at you!"

[–] NotASpeckOfCereal 8 years ago

Ask Stephen Hawking, who would not have been allowed to live in such a bright, new Hinterland.

Brevity is the soul of wit.

[–] Rottenbeard 8 years ago

Hawking deserves to die for being a lazy, pretentious twat.

Born in Kent and talks with an American accent in his suped-up lazy-boy.

I'd pull the trigger myself.

"Damn you Weatherby Savings and loan, I spit at you!"

[–] kreonkyth 8 years ago

I just hope you're a troll. Otherwise, I pitty you

[–] johnsonium 8 years ago

He's certainly an anti-semite, which explains his weird views. Whether he is trolling is yet to be determined.

[–] colemarc 8 years ago

Even if the Japanese Empire did not have any H-bomb ready, it would have not surrendered until the death of about 50% of the population. Anyway Heusmann was planning to take out most of the big cities in the first attack wave.
At that point the enemy territory is mostly useless due to the fallout, so the Reich is back to were it was.

"I would better not attack my enemy because I have little to gain, however I fear that he is considering to attack because he is fearing my attack, hence I will attack first!" ...