MovieChat Forums > BioShock Infinite (2013) Discussion > soooo... its all connected? (ending spoi...

soooo... its all connected? (ending spoilers)

posted 12 years ago by edgecrusher02
21 replies | jump to latest

so i couldnt help but notice a ton of comparisons from the first bioshock and infinite. you play as someone who is trying to stop someone else that you are somehow oddly connected to who runs a crazy city, you have to protect a female or females who were kept in captivity and experimented on who were being protected by large things that you now have to fight. both stories start with the character going to a lighthouse to start this journey having been steered in that direction by someone from their "past" and they dont even know it....

rapture = columbia
andrew ryan = comstock
jack = booker dewitt
big daddies = songbird
little sisters = elizabeth/anna
vigors = plasmids

is this implying that the first bioshock is one of those INFINITE versions of all of this? especially considering that elizabeth goes through a tear into rapture as part of her explanation of how there are infinite universes.

seems like it might be a leap but at the same time the similarities seem like too much to ignore. then again it could be that they just made the games similar because they both have bioshock in the title. the one thing that goes against that is the different years each takes place.

if it is an alternate version though....mind = blown.

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[–] Whitey2011 12 years ago

Yeah, I got the strong implication that Rapture is just an alternative universe version of Columbia. It just happens that in the Rapture universe, things happened a bit slower, hence being about 50 years later. Or perhaps Ryan was inspired by hearing about Columbia.

I think it's fascinating and gives them so much room to build into for DLC and other games in a series. I mean, a lot of sequels are structurally similar to their predecessors, but this has the perfect reason built into the game!

And then.....AND THEN THE CAGE COMES DOWN!

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] Otkon 12 years ago

Did you even play the game? Listen to the Voxophones or any of the dialog? Or were you just interested in shooting crap? The entire premise of the game is explained in the narrative. It is shocking to listen to people who can't figure out why "the game is just Bioshock set in the sky".

Seriously.

Elizabeth tells you what the lighthouses mean. Hence why they wind up in Rapture. This is not time travel. These are trans-dimensional realities that appear to be variations on a theme. A lighthouse, a city, a man. But other things are tweaked: the names, the settings, the villains. And why do they exist? They are trials, experiments, tests about choices and events. Every time something changes a branching reality fractures off so that a new experiment can be run. Hence the INFINITE part.

All the realities that had a Comstock, they all came from the one common point where Booker DeWitt decided to wash away his egregious participation in the Wounded Knee Massacre. It was at that baptism when the conscience of Booker DeWitt died and Zachary Comstock was born. In the realities where Booker rejects the baptism, he even says, "no amount of water can wash away what I have done", that Booker goes on to have a child. But he is in turn forced to make another decision. A Comstock from another reality finds a way to bridge the worlds with the help of the Luteces, and needing an heir, finds that a DeWitt in one of these other worlds has a child. Knowing that this DeWitt is still riddled with guilty and debt, the future alternate universe version of DeWitt - the Comstock of the game - persuades the Booker of the game to sell the child. After a while the Luteces saddled with their own guilt find this Booker and bring him across the divide to reclaim his daughter and destroy Comstock. And that is the game. All the rest flows from this premise; surprisingly it is all quite logical.

There is an article in Forbes dated March 27 that does a good job of explaining the ending.

[–] edgecrusher02 12 years ago

well they dont outright say that the story in the first bioshock is an alternate version of the story in infinite, which is what i was asking. i know its alternate realities and i got how the story for infinite works, but i was asking if it was meant to be an alternate version of the same story as the first bioshock. the lighthouse and trip to rapture being the biggest things. because it could be, but there are a few slight differences.

__________________
religion is flawed because man is flawed

[–] va_wulf 12 years ago

Damn youre a little hostile aren't you?!

[–] brahma-3 12 years ago

Of course there is time travel, Rapture is a city of decades later plus there are tears with rock music coming through. DeWitt also goes through time travel so he feels the dozen years passing in Colombia a few days, an alternate DeWitt becomes a martyr, Elisabeth grows old, NY is getting destroyed and of course back to square one at the baptism scene. Time and multi-dimension space live simultaneously that's why there isn't really timeTRAVEL but timeSTEP, but there are several different decades spreading over the story.

[–] weresmurf 12 years ago

Not to mention you see the future in two different places, one where you're in France 1984 where 'REVENGE OF THE JEDI' (the french translation I can't remember) is playing, as we know that was the unused title for RETURN OF THE JEDI...

[–] ZenRobot 12 years ago

yeah, you're a little prick.

[–] dish_of_the_day 12 years ago

also, if you remember Ryan is the only one who can use the Bathyspheres because of his DNA, which is why Jack can access them too.... But Booker also has the ability to work them as well... DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN!!!

[–] edgecrusher02 12 years ago

holy... balls. my mind was just blown again by this comment. never even thought about that. wow... bravo irrational games. bravo.

__________________
religion is flawed because man is flawed

[–] Otkon 12 years ago

No, no, no, no. This has been stated before by others but does not necessarily hold water - all puns intended. All we know is that Elizabeth, Booker and Songbird arrive in a Rapture. But knowing the nuanced nature of the multiverses, it certainly doesn't have to be the Rapture that we know from the previous two games. In this Rapture, perhaps the bathysphere has malfunctioned and no longer requires a DNA sample. And we know this is prone to happen because of the exact Audio Diary from the first game that gives away one of the first clues that Jack is possibly related to Ryan:

"We're putting all the bathyspheres in lockdown until further notice. Ryan had us install some kinda genetic device into the things so only Ryan and his inner circle will be able to use 'em without dispensation. But the boys tell me the keys are pretty unreliable. Sisters, cousins-anybody in the ballpark, genetically, will be able to come and go as they see fit.

If operability was originally supposed to be restricted to Ryan and his unrelated cabal but branched out through poor design to "ballpark" relatives of the aforementioned, then the likelihood of further degradation of the keys to the bathyspheres is also extremely high. For some reason, people believe that the bathyspheres will only work for Ryan (and subsequently his sole male offspring) which is completely false. Even if this genetic match theory holds and this is the actual Rapture with the same rules as the first game, Booker could also just be something like the 26th cousin of, say, Sander Cohen or any other of Ryan's cronies.

So while it may be interesting to speculate about this "twist", there is certainly no ironclad proof that Booker is Ryan.

[–] edgecrusher02 12 years ago

i dont think that he IS ryan. all im suspecting is that infinite and the first bioshock are basically the same story, theyre just different due to being two different universes. meaning that they are the same person, but at the same time they arent. that the stories are alternate parallels of each other. i think the similarities between the two are just too much to assume that they arent.

__________________
religion is flawed because man is flawed

[–] mike_11231 12 years ago

There was a Voxophone, explaining that Fink could peek into the future and alternate realities.

Songbird is not an alternate universe big daddy, he IS a big daddy, using the exact same technology to bind him to Elizabeth. Fink brought the technology to Columbia from Rapture.Which also explains the vigors and the use modern of modern music.

Booker can't be Andrew Ryan because the timelines don't match, Andrew Ryan is also from Russia .

[–] Otkon 12 years ago

So this Voxophone specifically states that Fink took the technology from an underwater city called Rapture? I must have missed that. Exactly where was this Voxophone located? And can you make a verbatim transcript of it to share with the rest of the class?

I do remember the Voxophone explaining the anachronistic music. That was in a building near Lady Comstock's tomb.

[–] PhantomPhan222 12 years ago

1.) Stop being an arrogant little squit; your attitude is uneccessary and it is perfectly possible to enter into civil discussion and share information without behaving like a rude Know-It-All-Nancy.

2.) The Voxphone referred to by the other user DOES exist. I cannot offer you a verbatim transcript, nor can I tell you with 100% certainty where it was located (though I have a strong inclination it was in Finkton, before you take the elevator up to Fink's offices, next to a blackboard diagram of the Songbird), but I do remember the actual information distinctly. Of course Fink doesn't specifically name Rapture or any underwater city; but the information you get is enough to infer that we are talking Big Daddy technology. Of course the window is left open as to whether or not Fink got this specific idea from a Rapture universe or another universe entirely. But step outside the internal logic of the story for a moment and look at the external logic of the storytelling: that gives us a pretty good idea of what is being implied here.

3.) It all comes down to constants and variables. We know a few of the constants and variables in the Columbia universes and essentially none, with any certainty, of the Rapture universes and absolutely zero idea what effect, if any, the events of Infinite had on the existence of the Rapture universes so it's a perfectly worthwhile discussion having. Such is the nature of quantum.

"Two by two we'll go from door to door cause God loves Mormons and he wants some more"

[–] Otkon 12 years ago

GoFY, prat. If Fink doesn't name Rapture, or even mention an underwater city, then the tech could have come from any of the multiverses - which doesn't prove squat. The only thing it suggests is that the technology is a similarly-inspired variable - not borrowed, not stolen and certainly not exact. This is the Voxophone that is apparently being cited as irrefutable proof that the Songbird was created with Yi Suchong designs:

"These holes have shown me yet another wonder, though I've yet to see the application for it. They illuminate a merger of machine and man that is somehow the lesser, yet the greater, of both parties. The process seems to be irreversible. Perhaps, though, Comstock will have some need of this kind of thing to keep watch in that tower of his." -Jeremiah Fink

But it is intentionally vague and therefore not that conclusive in the context of the infinite possibilities of varying cybernetic guardians. Infer all you want, but mark the speculation as such. This is the posting I have issue with:

Songbird is not an alternate universe big daddy, he IS a big daddy, using the exact same technology to bind him to Elizabeth. Fink brought the technology to Columbia from Rapture.

This is not worded as an inference; these are very specific, very emphatic declarative statements of absolute truth...with zero evidence to support them. And when put to scrutiny, they fail. At the most, it is implied that the concept and function of Songbird was suggested by a nondescript vision of an unnamed alternate reality. That I will give you from the evidence at hand. Otherwise, the rest is purely people spitballing.

When it comes to misinformation and unfounded theories being spread as fact, I will be as adamant as I want.

[–] PhantomPhan222 12 years ago

Which is precisely what I said, but your blinkered arrogance only makes it acceptable if you repeat it ad infinitum in your own uneccessarily antagonistic manner.

"When it comes to misinformation and unfounded theories being spread as fact, I will be as adamant as I want."

It's a game. A story. In the grand scheme of "misinformation and unfounded theories spread as fact" nothing said here on this tiny corner of the internet exactly ranks with intelligent design or anti-vaccination theories, does it? Doesn't seem important enough to act like a colossal knob. Why not try disagreeing in a civil and polite manner (you can still be adamant while being nice you know?)?

Or better yet: go outside.

"Two by two we'll go from door to door cause God loves Mormons and he wants some more"

[–] mike_11231 12 years ago

- The armor looks very similar (same colours, same material)
- Same behavioral patterns as a Daddy (He's imprinted on Elizabeth, just like Big Daddys are imprinted to one little siser)
- His helmet changes colors based on behavior (red for agressive, yellow for neutral) just like a Big Daddy.
- Taken from the future (or an alternate future)
- Rapture is confirmed to exist in the games universe(multiverse?) by the ending.

The evidence seems pretty overwhelming to me.

You seem anal rekt that you didn't figure it out, like anything besides your own conclusions about the game are 100% wrong and full of crap.

Way to kill off any discussion whatsoever on the forum.

[–] Ahstaroth 12 years ago

The fact of the matter is there is conclusive PROOF that Fink & Co. sought to profit from things seen or heard through the tears.

So, let's see, we have plasmid-like tech, big daddy-like tech, vending machines, the protagonist ressurecting every time he dies (tears as a precursor to Vita-chamber tech?), and other anachronistic stuff in the game (not that Bioshock itself isn't anachronistic). Did it all come from Rapture? Maybe, maybe not.

But considering all of that stuff that is very similar to Rapture tech, the fact that Fink is profiting from observing tears, and the fact that we actually SEE a version of rapture that is almost an EXACT reproduction from the original game, it would be foolish to rule that out, and especially to rail against it like a complete prick.

Using Occam's razor, what is more likely?

[–] MaxPaynefan187 12 years ago

Otkon is just a troll,leave him be. Stupid people like him try to refute the concept of possibility and theories and always wants to be right. The ending to me is open to interpretation by anyone,anyone can make of what they say,what they heard and what they were told about through the course of and the final moments of the game. There is strong evidence to not only suggest and imply but also confirm that Fink actually did use the technology from Rapture to create the SongBird stemming from inspiration of the Big Daddy. People like you Otkon take these forums way to seriously, this is a discussion board about a game not 9/11.

[–] 12 years ago

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