MovieChat Forums > BioShock Infinite (2013) Discussion > Choice of Elizabeth's pendant??

Choice of Elizabeth's pendant??


I chose the cage pendant only on the basis that I thought the more common choice people would choose the bird.

I thought this may have some effect on the ending of the game because the other Bioshock games had multiple endings. However after discussing said theory with a friend who chose the bird it appears nothing was different.

So what was the significance of making this choice?? I mean come on its Bioshock I can't believe that meant nothing other than having Elizabeth wear a pretty necklace.

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The ending does not change. However I'm of the belief that the brooch IS significant. Just not in a way that we can be sure about until a DLC. The complete absence of it in the drowning scene is not an oversight I will say that.

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I had assumed the brooch would be symbolic and would play a part in what ending we got. Like the bird would symbolise freedom and the desire to set Elizebeth free. And the cage would be the opposite, wanting to keep her a prisoner or wanting to sell her off to repay the debt.

Turns out it was basically just a choice of which brooch would look nicer on her. A bit of a let down really.

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I think it was symbolic in that it was a variable and not a constant. You will note that the Luteces express surprise in the brooch you choose, unlike the coin flip, which was a constant. Again, I think there is MAJOR significance in the pendant (since it is absent in the drowning scene), but we're just going to have to wait for a DLC to explain it. Don't be disappointed yet. They still need room to surprise us.

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I think most people would believe the symbolism you describe while choosing the pendant However, and some what ironically, In the end it turned out that the bird represented her imprisonment by songBIRD. and the Cage actually symbolized her freedom because the song that is played to control Songbird is C A G E.

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Constants. The illusion of choice but ending up with the same outcome.
Lives. Lived. Will live.
Dies. Died. Will die.

Remember?

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Yeah, I believe there are several times in the game where you have to choose, but the choice does not change anything. That's the whole point, I think.

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That is a point as they said it is a circle, nothing you do changes that, he has done it a hundred times before and he will do it a hundred times again. Well not now anyways but if he didn't make that last choice he would have been doomed in an infinite loop hence BioShock Infinite.

As we grow we learn, i have learned that if you don't like me grow up or ignore me.

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all the "choice" elements in the game (like at the begining if ur gonna throw the ball at the black couple or at the guy holding a ticket(?) signify one of the core messages/thoughts the game delivers, that is, since there are an infinite number of universes with infinite possibilities, "choice" is just an illusion. since infinity + 1 is still infinity, any "choice" you make is basically insignificant, which is exactly how this game treats "choice" elements.

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one of the core messages/thoughts the game delivers, that is, since there are an infinite number of universes with infinite possibilities, "choice" is just an illusion. since infinity + 1 is still infinity, any "choice" you make is basically insignificant, which is exactly how this game treats "choice" elements.


Or it's just a pretty lame excuse for limited (actually non-existant) choices within the game. If choice is irrelevant, why not simply leave those moments out all together? I mean, there are *tons* of situations in-game where they did exactly that ... leave you only one option how to proceed in order to continue the narrative. If you're not going to factor in the player's choices, why even present players with a choice? The (philosophical) point about choice being an illusion is brought up during the story again and again anyway ...

Personally, I never cared *that* much for the way the first game handled player choices and "rewarded" you for them. But I liked the basic concept, so I'm a bit disappointed that "Infinite" didn't expand on that concept but instead decided to drop it completely.


S.

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I think they're just meant to explain the constants/variables thing.
Rather than making the variables random, they made the player choose. That way you get the point even if you only play once, otherwise you'd have to play multiple times to see there's a difference.

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The game deals with the themes of fate and choice and by the end of the game, you're left with the notion that no matter how many times you choose to go in a specific direction, you inevitably end up going in the other, the one you were destined to go to. Early in the game, it’s established through the Luteces coin flip test that alternate Bookers have been on this mission countless times (at least 122). They have all tried to take Anna either to New York or France many times before, but keep on failing. It just wasn't meant to be.

Regardless of whether Booker says head or tails in the coin flip test, the coin ends up being heads. This is a constant. For some reason it always happens and can’t be changed.

Some things can be changed and these are variables. You can choose to pick the bird pendant instead of the cage one, but the bigger picture remains the same. The characters may choose to say or do something differently, but the play still consists of three acts and ends the same. This is what that pendant scenario is all about.

Can you remember when Anna said something like "You've already made the choice" during the lighthouse part at the end? Sometimes there is a set path and there’s nothing you can do about it.

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Can you remember when Anna said something like "You've already made the choice" during the lighthouse part at the end? Sometimes there is a set path and there’s nothing you can do about it.


All fair points .. points which didn't go over my head when I played the game - or rather when I thought about the story's implications afterwards.

However: I wasn't talking about the philosophical implications of how the game presents choice, but rather about the game-mechanics. I can't quite make up my mind if the game is incredibly clever here, by (sort of) bringing in the concept of choice but then telling us that it doesn't really matter anyway. You know.. the whole "constants and variables"-thing. Or if the game is incredibly clever *and* lazy.

Because that's how you could see this whole thing:

Not only is the game itself running on rails regarding its level-design, but the story is too. It's just that in this case, the story claims that this isn't a flaw but a feature and, in fact, an inevitable side-effect of the nature of the universe(s) it's set in.

*shrug*

I'm not really bashing the game here.. In fact I'd have to think long and hard to come up with a game that had such a thought-provoking story/ending. And the countless discussions about the game's "deeper meaning" I found on the web so far seem to prove that I'm not the only one who feels this way. But I would've hoped for a bit more in terms of actual gameplay/combat and player/world interaction. As it is now, Infinite is like a rollercoaster ride. A very exciting and pretty rollercoaster ride, no doubt, but as the player, you have about as much influence on/interaction with the world as a passenger on said rollercoaster has on the ride.



S.

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I actually replied to the OP but I understand what you're saying anyway. As someone else mentioned, I get the impression that Irrational wanted to do a lot of things with the game (check out e3 2011 vid), but due to time constraints or conflicting opinions, they decided not to. Still, I absolutely loved the finished product. When was the last time you played a game that dealt with issues ranging from race, philosophy and religion to parallel universes, choice and destiny? Lol, they did well.

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I don't get why you take such offense to a set story, it happens all the time in movies. The director is telling you his story. This game has a story to tell and told it, I'm kinda glad I didn't have to play over again because I chose one brooch over the other. Also most of the time a game does this I'll just watch the alternate ending on youtube. It kind of reminds me of Mass Effect, where I played the story how I wanted and it's MY story going back and making choices, I obviously didn't make the first time going back to do that is not as fun.

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I don't get why you take such offense to a set story, it happens all the time in movies. The director is telling you his story.


Because one is a movie, the other is a computer game. By their very nature, one is non-interactive, the other relies on player interaction/input.

You could argue of course that no work of fiction is *really* open anyway, that everything you can do in a game has to be premeditated by the developer. Meaning that even the most open of games will only offer the illusion of open-ness by giving you tons of alternate (but "fixed") paths you can choose to follow. Kinda like a railroad-system: Bioshock Infinite is pretty much a single one-way track..whereas a more open-world kinda game would offer you tons of branching points with different tracks to follow.



S.

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I understand it to be a theme on the illusion of choice. The game on a few occasions gives us options that, whichever is chosen, result in the same outcome. This is possibly an allegory for how governments, or people in elite power, give the people the illusion of political choice. That is, whichever party one chooses, the political outcome is more or less the same. It creates a sense of freedom and empowerment to placate society, but in the end, it's pure illusion.

Could also be to do with the fact that destiny is preordained. No matter what path we choose, our fate remains the same. Hope this helps.

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I also like to think it is a nod to the nature of games themselves. We all play a game differently but we are all steered through the same narrative. We are given choices, we play things different ways, we can have input when we are able to, but ultimately we will travel through the story as it is presented to us and arrive at the end written for us. With the pendant the game has given us a choice that is simply an aesthetic one. It doesn't change any outcome, but it does show that with our choices, our preferences, we have an influence. Even if it is only superficial.

Of course this all plays into the themes of the game.

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I think the choice of the pendant is merely to illustrate the theme of being in an infinite loop, aka "Bioshock Infinite." People keep complaining about the game being lazy or non-interactive, but I don't mind a set story that has a plot I can't change as long as I'm invested in it. And boy, did Bioshock Infinite deliver (in my opinion at least).

The first play through I picked the birdcage, and the second play through I picked the bird. Nothing changed, but I think what Elizabeth said was a little different. Is the game being lazy, not in my opinion because there's plenty of other changes that occur which reinforce the theme of constants and variables: things can change, others will stay the same. Another part has Booker choose to wait on Elizabeth or hold a ticket vendor at gunpoint; if you wait, the vendor puts a knife in your hand but if you point a gun at him the scripted shootout happens faster. The only difference is Elizabeth will have to bandage your hand, and you'll have that bandage throughout the game.

These choices represent how ultimately everything that happens is out of Booker's hands. The only reason Booker eventually breaks the cycle is because he eventually gets to a point where Future Elizabeth can teleport him to the future, and then back to 1912 in order to change the future. Before that, Booker kept getting killed before reaching that point; without Elizabeth's interference the cycle would've never been broken.

Even the Luteces aren't totally in control. When Booker acquires his shield, the Luteces remark something like "Wow, it worked that time." Booker responds "Whaddya mean it worked this time?" and the Luteces start discussing how sometimes it works, while other times it kills Booker. It doesn't matter to the Luteces, since they can time travel and are able to keep sending in Bookers until eventually it changes. The ending even reflects this: Booker kills Comstock and decides he doesn't want to be Comstock, but the only way to prevent him from choosing otherwise is to prevent him from choosing at all, which again is where Elizabeth steps in and drowns him. If it wasn't for Elizabeth, Booker would've kept running the loop and if it wasn't for Elizabeth the second time, there would always be a Comstock.

When it comes to the pendant, it's kind of ironic because Booker is making the choice, but Booker's choice doesn't matter. The Luteces can't make a choice, but they'll always be there to provide the variables. Elizabeth is the one who is offering him the choice, and even though the answer doesn't matter in the overall equation it matters to Elizabeth that he even chooses, and Elizabeth is really the one who's choices matter yet she's not the one making it.

Can't be too careful with all those weirdos running around.

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