I first read The Gunslinger at the age of 13, and as one could imagine, I didn't really get it. I was left scratching my head, and if I hadn't gotten it for my birthday in a box set that included Drawing of the Three, I might not have ever picked it up (and missed out on one of the best series of books I've ever read). I picked it up again after my daughter's birth, but as a new, first time mother, you can imagine how hard it was to focus on Roland and Mid-World between feedings, diaper changes and sleep deprivation. So of course with the movie being worked on, I found myself missing Roland and his ka-tet, so I read, and I finished it last night. At last I noticed something!
So I read the book thrice now, and at different stages of my life. I've certainly changed a lot, but the one constant that has remained after every reading was an odd feeling of disquiet... or perhaps discomfort is a better word? At any rate, I think I finally pinpointed what it is: At the end of The Gunslinger I resent Roland. I do. I want to love him. I want to understand how important his mission is. I want to understand the decisions he makes. But I don't understand how anyone can sacrifice a child they purport to love for anything. I mean... what would that do to one's humanity? To one's soul?
So I was just curious if anyone feels the same thing at the end of the first book? How do you get past it? Later I come to love Roland. I don't think he can really quite atone for the decision he made under the mountain, but I think he feels the same way, too. It's just odd for me to stick by an antagonist I harbor resentment for, and while I "get over it," a little piece of me always reminds me of one of the most important choices he ever made in his life, and that little piece of me can't get over it.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts/insight you might want to share!
I'd say this, in part, is what makes his journey interesting. When we are able to both loathe and love a character that's a fascinating piece of writing.
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion
I understand what you're saying, because after finishing The Gunslinger, I felt much the same way. For me, it was "What kind of guy are we dealing with here?" in the very beginning. Then during the Tull flashback, it was "Wow - the kids had to go too? Roland's pretty ruthless. But he's pretty badass, though." And even after knowing he's killed children before, I was still surprised, angry, and disappointed with him when he let Jake fall. But after thinking about it, Walter didn't really give him much of a choice: Save the boy you care for, or forfeit the answers you seek and possibly allow all of existence be destroyed. A tough decision if there ever was one. But yeah, even with that in mind, part of me still resented him a little for it.
As for how I got over it, I guess it was continuing to read the series and realizing that royal blood, talented hands, and general badassery aside, Roland is a flawed, but essentially good man. And, of course, Roland taking advantage of his second chance with Jake when he came back into the story helped a great deal.
Oh absolutely. This is why The Gunslinger is probably my favourite in the series behind tDotT. Not only is it a fascinating read but it sets the tone for Roland to be one of the most fascinating characters ever written imo. He's not just a bad guy, he is a real bad man. There's still a touch of humanity, which for me makes my feelings towards Roland even more umm *bitter* isn't the right word but close enough as it creates my own internal conflict in wanting to believe there is enough good still in him to save himself from his own demons. But i can't, he proves in book 1 that he has enough self awareness, yet is willing to commit to doing the most heinous of things in his self obsessed quest.
Some would say that Roland is a flawed anti-hero, but i would disagree with this sentiment until he starts forming his ka-tet. In the subsequent books he even acknowledges that he loves his ka-tet but would still sacrifice them for the tower (but knows to keep this thought to himself) *rips hair out*... I have a love/hate relationship with Roland, and at times it drives me nuts seeing how much his ka-tet humanises him and how far he progresses from the Roland in book 1. The sheer brutality of Roland in The Gunslinger make it perhaps the most important book in the entire series imo. If it wasn't for book 1 and our introduction to this Roland, the character development of him wouldn't have sunk into my subconscious quite like it has in such a visceral way.
a little piece of me always reminds me of one of the most important choices he ever made in his life, and that little piece of me can't get over it.
I feel the same! After reading The Gunslinger, i was immensely intrigued by every little thought, word and action of Rolands from thereon in. Could he ever truly redeem himself, could i ever forgive him myself? He is such a wonderful literary ride into one's own self reflection and psyche. King's Roland has the capacity to make one question themselves at times, i think this is why there is so much passion for TDT.
I felt the same and this ties itself into the ending of the story perfectly. However, later on I feel like Roland does enough to redeem himself. That's why thr ending never quite jibes with me.
It brings up alot on interesting questions though.
Thanks for the (legitimate) responses, guys! I guess some people will be on the fence about Roland's redemption. I was just discussing this last night with my husband and he feels much the same as I do; everything Roland goes through, everything he does right, everything he's willing to sacrifice of himself... Is any of that truly enough to pay for the life of a child that loves, trusts and depends on you? Of course, some of our maternal/paternal instincts are going to come into play for us (all the breeders, represent), but just from a human standpoint, that sacrifice is pretty heinous.
I do think it's interesting, though, as others have stated, that no matter how we feel about Roland's sacrifice/betrayal, all of us were willing to stick with him. There is something about him that makes him too compelling to just cast aside. And despite the fact part of me will never get over what he did, the rest of me wants to at least see what he'll do to try.
Now if ANY of that bleeds into this movie, it truly will be worth the wait! But conveying that on screen has never been an easy feat. And the wait continues...
Well, feel free to go all PETA on me, but the audience would most likely be more upset about Jake. Do we love Oy? Yes. Is Oy the cutest billybumbler that ever bumbled? Yes. Is he just as much a part of the ka-tet as Jake, Eddie or Susannah? Yes. Is he a human? ... Is he a human child? ... But here's the difference: Oy, from what I've remembered of him, would gladly sacrifice himself for any member of the ka-tet, including Roland. So that being said, I don't think he would have asked Roland to make a choice.
In regard to fiction: an oft displayed sentiment is that a loyal animal's death is sadder than that of a human's.
When you factor in that Oy can speak (even if it is essentially sophisticated parroting) and is arguably as intelligent as a primate (if not more so), it stands to reason that those heartstrings are only going to be tugged all the more strongly .
--- It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
It should probably be noted that since the movie is a sequel to the books, it would stand to reason that this version of Roland probably won't sacrifice Jake.
I would expect Roland to be a better man if this is indeed his last go around.
Oh, please don't mistake me. There would be an audience wiping away their tears, I the most strongly. But when you have to measure the life of an animal against that of a human child's, the human child will (almost) always be the one of greater import, no matter how well Oy can speak, as is always the case. Or maybe that's just the mommy in me talking.
But when you have to measure the life of an animal against that of a human child's, the human child will (almost) always be the one of greater import
You would think this to be universal, but a surprising number of people possess what I can only assume is very low-key misanthropy when it comes to how the death of a human versus the death of a non-homo sapien is perceived.
Perhaps that is merely their feeling about characters in a story? The reality of a rapidly unfolding situation staring them straight in the face may prove to be different.
--- It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
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I get it. I wonder about that, though. Like in Walking Dead, I couldn't help but notice they kept Judith alive, no matter how unlikely a baby living through zombie apocalypse is, they kept that baby going. In the books she was dead in under, what? 24 hours? But I honestly believe infanticide, even that of a fictional character in a scenario that is entirely impossible from every angle, is very dangerous to a show. So with beloved adults (and even, boldly, some children) dying left and right, that baby has to live. And, like, Darryl, because let's face it, Darryl's death is the show's death. But I digress! Killing children is very dangerous territory for a franchise, so that leads us to an excellent point already brought up; is this Roland's chance to fix that mistake?
SPEAKING OF WHICH (!!!!) did everyone see the "cryptic message" that Stephen King left? Because that would tie in as well!
Well now i feel bad that the only literary character i've shed a real tear over was Wolf in The Talisman lol. I'd be more inclined to think this to be a combination of collapse of compassion combined with animal attachment theory rather than anything misanthropic, Oy is the only one 100% truly innocent as he is free of the human id, and like Joanna said would sacrifice himself for the ka-tet (well i assume so without consulting my psychology text book on billy bumblers). I could definitely see that an audience may have their heartstrings pulled more by Oy being sacrificed. In The Waste lands for example, i found it to be a very touching moment that they all (especially Roland) risked themselves by having their asses hanging in the breeze to rescue Oy on the bridge. I did my own internal little cheerleader dance once Oy was safely on the bridge again, and felt my heartstrings pulled that he couldn't bring himself to let go of Jake's hand and then actually cried when he saw that he had drew blood, damn now that i think about it i may have more feelings for that darn adorable little fur baby than i do for Jake lol. It's especially poignantly incongruous in stark comparison to the sacrificing of Jake under the mountains.
The notion that animals are innocent starts to become fuzzy as intelligence increases. Chimpanzees have been observed being cruel for virtually no reason and dolphin pods form "rape gangs".
--- It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .
True, dolphins are also known to mourn their stillborns for days and keep pushing them to surface for air, etc too. So let's say it's safe to assume Oy is the most innocent member of the Ka-tet, not innocent in general simply because he is not human.
The level of innocence is usually denoted by one's grasp of the concept of morality right? There's a point to be made that Oy may possess this trait but it's impossible to know to what extent or if it is more than Jakes. Oy clearly seems to be a sentient being and possibly anthropomorphic, but does Oy have an intellectual understanding of his own self awareness? If so, i think it's totally feasible for Oy to be given the same emotional equality if he were to be sacrificed, and even to think further on this concept (though i wonder if King himself even did). Given that you have changed the thread to a labelled 'thought experiment' one, i'm intrigued to hear your own opinions as i have never thought of Oy in such a philosophical manner before lol!
Oy was special and should be exempt from any typical animal vs human life debates. Oy wanted to stay behind and mourn Jake, but instead did as he was told and ended up saving Roland's life. Roland admitted he had misjudged Oy's heart and mind and felt his loss as a true member of the katet.
Also Jake certainly considered him more than an animal, He trusted Oy with his life and even his mind at one point,
True, it's weird trying to disassociate Oy as more human rather than more animal. Us constant readers know he is much more than just an animal but it seems Roland doesn't until his death. In a way i think this brings us full circle to the OP in relation to Roland. Should Roland just have let Oy die at Jake's grave, possibly giving Oy a more peaceful and fulfilled ending with his friend? I wonder if taking Oy with him, even though Oy was resigned to it was yet another mistake on Roland's part and choices he makes, given his subsequent demise in saving Roland quite tragically. Yet another harsh death because of Roland's decisions. That and Roland doesn't appear to truly appreciate Oy as a true member of the Ka-tet until he has perished. As much remorse, regret and then redemption Roland aims for, he doesn't quite get there imo, thus going back to the start yet again.
This is actually one issue i have with the movie. Though it's being labelled a sequel to the books, it isn't really. At best it's The Dark Tower (sequel) volume 1. And i have doubts that some of these important emotional arcs will remain intact if they are just to be wiped because Roland now has the horn and it really is the last time around. It seems to cut the soul out of characters and important moments, i guess it remains to be seen really.
When i mentioned Jack Mort I was being sarcastic sorry. I just hate when people *beep* on Roland. But i guess they have a point. Okay heres a better one. Roland or Walter White? Who is worse?
Woah, now. I didn't think I was truly *beep*ing on Roland. If I was I'd have entirely discarded him without looking back. I said a small part of me resented him for what he had done, but the rest of me couldn't help but love him, for all his faults and what I couldn't get over.
Forgive me for not recognizing the sarcasm at first, but this is sometimes a poor medium to try and convey that through. So... Walter or Roland? Is that more sarcasm? Because I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Again, I'd never compare the two, but perhaps I'm just too dim to get what you're trying to pedal here.
I guess the best comparison i can make is The Tower is Roland's Meth. The Meth is Walter's Tower. They are both damned to ther obsessions. Sorry thats the best i got lol. Roland is so different i guess you can't really compare him to other fictional characters.
It's a heartbreaking decision for sure, but I think that Roland really tries to atone for it throughout the remainder of the series.
By this point in the series/cycle, Roland has had very little human contact over a very long time and his only goal is to reach The Dark Tower in order to save his world. He knows little else. The MiB is continually setting traps for Roland, and Jake unfortunately is just another one of these traps.
We have to remember that although Jake is very young he is also pretty mature and when Roland tells him the story (in book 1), he begins to understand what will happen to him, as well. He wants to trust Roland but also realizes the lengths that Roland will go to complete his quest. This is why he absolves Roland of the decision making before Roland has let go of his hand. It is not until the end of book 1 when his fate is being told that we/Roland may realize Jake was more than just a trap, although I do not believe it was explicitly written out for the Constant Reader.
We can also look at it as sort of a gunslinger training, for all parties. Jake matured a little more in that time and learned a lot about trust and sacrifice. By book 3 the same goes for Roland and he does in fact set out to make it right, which we learn nearly drives him, as well as Jake, insane. The lengths they all go to to fix the Roland and Jake situation is a pretty beautiful "love" story in and of itself.
It's also the point of the overarching theme of the entire series. Until Roland learns that sacrifice of everyone and everything you hold dear is not the means to goal achievement, he is doomed to repeat the cycle over and over.
Wow. Thank you for all of that, Trip, the last paragraph especially. I agree completely with you, by the way. It's funny, because I'm on Drawing of the Three, and Roland is trying to crawl away from the lobstrosities with Eddie's door following behind, but Walter mocking him in his head. He even tries at one point to argue that maybe, after the Tower, he can save those he's (presumably) dooming. I found myself wondering if that was something Roland would have considered before sacrificing Jake? And if the movie is just another (and the last) turn of the wheel, it seems like that lesson might have been well learned. All speculation, mind you, but if there is a redemption story in here, it makes sense.
But thank you for actually answering my questions, lol. I mean, I guess I pretty much know my own reasons/feelings, but it never hurts to get a little extra perspective from others. ~.^
Yeah honesty i hope he saves Jake in the Movie. If he does I will cheer. "Go then there other worlds then these" But Roland grabs him at the last second. I would be happy:)
Here here. I think there are a lot of us who would agree, but many who would shriek, "That's not how it was written!" angrily. Many want the adaptation as opposed to the sequel, but what can you do? Truth is they can't please everybody.